Microsoft Ploy to Block Sun from WS-I Exposed

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News: Microsoft Ploy to Block Sun from WS-I Exposed

  1. Microsoft executives apparently attempted to steer the direction of the Web Services Interoperability Organization away from rival Sun Microsystems, according to evidence and testimony introduced during Microsoft's ongoing antitrust trial. Bill Gates indicated that he approved of Microsoft's involvement with the WS-I, as long as Sun's role was minimized.

    Read Microsoft ploy to block Sun exposed.

    Threaded Messages (20)

  2. Yeah, thats not surprising. Its not the first time for M$. Its part of their culture.
  3. "Foo gives us air cover for both de facto implementation adoption and our next wave of standards in this space,"

    This is MS code speak for, "get ready to opt out of any standards body and reinvent the wheel as a Windows-only implementation..."
  4. I am wondering how m$ dirty maneuvers was accepted by IBM and BEA!!!
  5. I doubt that MS executives copy staff at other companies on their internal memos very often :)
  6. You mean to tell me you didn't see it?

    Greg Leake was on The Server Side along with and a BEA evangelist who took every opportunity to kiss Mr. Leakes
    buttocks and setup a dinner date. In the end, Greg Leake ignored the fellow in public. Ever wonder why they are arrogant? With lap dogs like these who wouldn't be?
    To the end, IBM and BEA will lift their skirts for a cheap thrill not thinking about the long term ramifications.








      
  7. n n,

    You reduced that thread to a pathetic embarrassment to the J2EE community. Do us all a favor and find another site to peddle your childish trolls. Please.

    BTW, you never did reveal your identity. What are you hiding?
  8. <Martin Higgins>
    n n,

    You reduced that thread to a pathetic embarrassment to the J2EE community. Do us all a favor and find another site to peddle your childish trolls. Please.
    </Martin Higgins>

    Please speak for yourself, not for all java community. Thank you.
  9. n n,

    I couldn't agree more with you ... IBM has a long history of cooperating with Microsoft, just to be later stubbed in the back. As the old saying goes: "Fool me once - shame on you! Fool me twice - shame on me!", and shame on IBM! This is not in support of Sun, but rather in support of IBM.

    ... if you cant compete with the other camp/side by making your products better then try to bring unrest in the other camp. Bring it down from inside. This tactic is not new (Microsoft is not smart enough to have invented it, but IBM is foolish enough not to have recognized it!)
  10. [QUOTE]
    I am wondering how m$ dirty maneuvers was accepted by IBM and BEA!!!
    [QUOTE]


    IBM is not much better than Microsoft. You get stuck on their 'standards' when dealing with a lot of their hardware too.
  11. where are all the microsoft zealots? you guys need to weigh in and explain to me about the wonderful tatics of the *edited*, er company you work for.
  12. Right here...I have used both Java and M$. Sorry to say but M$ is just better, cleaner and the numbers prove it. So stop being the sore lossers and open your minds...Anyway, the software and technologies are written by humans who have a wife and kids and happen to work for M$.
  13. Ian,

    I don't know where you get that MS is better, cleaner. It might be a case of different worlds and different priorities, but from every single aspect I find important, Java is both better and cleaner.

    Also, the thing about the numbers proving it, check your numbers. Java outnumbers MS by 2-1 in WebServices and in corporate development.
  14. But, as per the news its only IBM which made moves to include Sun in the forum.

    Sun was infact, a bit slow in supporting WebServices, b'cos they wanted to make J2CA.
    (but, i dont think, its competing standards, i feel, J2CA is for application integ and WS is for B2B integ.).

    And, IBM wants to make a headstart in WS market, and since sun is not so willing, IBM tied up with MS.

    After all, its business, and the WebServices implementation by IBM is not tied with MS technologies.(funda of WS??).

    So it is microsoft and Sun MS has to be blamed, rather than IBM.
  15. i don't care if sun is fast or slow with it's support
    the java market is an open market.
    there are a lot of vendors, which provide you soap/wsdl implementations for java.
    you even have a free ones like apache-soap / apache-axis.
  16. Just in case you are of the belief that apache-axis is some random free implementation of a web services architecture - its development is almost exclusively run by IBM employees. Hence is will evolve along lines that are supportive of IBM's business needs. No big deal, but while its free of cost its not free of the considerations discussed in this thread.

    --
    bruce
  17. IBM is to blame also. They created WS-I along with Microsoft. It was not in the best interest of anyone related to Java to do this.
  18. Why? I feel IBM is not concerned about the politics. They recognize good technology for customers and that's what they care about. Microsoft invented SOAP, Sun owns Java. IBM uses both technologies to give customers the best of both worlds. Web Services is just one interface technology, not an implementation technology. Why do Sun or Microsoft have to drive anything anyway. If IBM or BEA create good products that are mostly based on standards, who cares what Microsoft or Sun says.


    Views my own, not IBM


  19. <quote>
    Why? I feel IBM is not concerned about the politics
    </quote>

    From infoworld:
    <quote>
    "So you're talking about IBM?" I asked. "I'm talking about IBM," Phipps replied. "IBM devotes more time to the politics than it does to the technology, in most cases."
    </quote>

    Well , this interview done in early Feb. with Sun Simon Phipps seems to contradict what you think http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/04/15/020415opcurve.xml

    Best Regards,
    Hun Boon Teo
    01:23PM
    15/May/2002
    Singapore
  20. "Microsoft invented SOAP"

    Huhu, where did you get this one from ?

    I think Dave Winer invented an early SOAP version, then Microsoft asked him to develop SOAP with them.

    http://www.xmlrpc.com/discuss/msgReader$555

    "That's not exactly true. Before folklore becomes reality, XML-RPC was originally, privately, called SOAP, when Don Box and I were working with Bob Atkinson and Mohsen Al-Ghosein at Microsoft, in early 1998.

    UserLand had a protocol before that called "RPC", I announced it in DaveNet, and they asked if I'd like to work with them on this."

    bye
    -stephan
  21. I am so tired of this stuff. All the big companies play these games in order to control technology and maximise their profits. It is not really about creating effective software, but in selling software licenses and services.

    The real losers out of this entire process are the companies held to ransom by this technocracy, the end-users of software systems and the developers of these systems.