Sun ONE Application Server 7 Early Access Available

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News: Sun ONE Application Server 7 Early Access Available

  1. Sun ONE Application Server 7 Early Access Available (47 messages)

    The Early Access release of the J2EE 1.3 compliant Sun ONE Application Server 7, Standard Edition is now available for download. Sun One 7 includes all the J2EE 1.3 API's, integrated Web Services support, hot deployment, enhanced CMP, startup/shutdown classes, pluggable JAAS based authorization, etc. Also available is a 'Developers Guide to Enterprise Java Beans' and other whitepapers.

    To download the Sun ONE Application Server and the new Sun ONE Studio 4 integrated development environment, please go to:
    http://see.sun.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/mcp?p=03$gb03$gj44i61012000maTHMaTF$

    The Early Access download site also contains links to:
    - product documentation
    - migration tools to move existing J2EE applications to the Sun ONE Application Server
    - white papers
    - NEW software forums dedicated to App Server 7
    - feedback forms

    Threaded Messages (47)

  2. This is great news !!! I just have a question to SUN that is will they bless JBOSS as being J2EE compliant if they have then please disregard this question. Also it is good to hear that SUN is contributing to open source development on Java and Linux. SUN's contribution to Java has been immense but we need to look at the future and see if open sourcing Java would help in its growth.
  3. I agree that it's great news, however you have a few things wrong. 1. Sun won't make JBoss certified. Anyone can say that they are compliant. 2. This is NOT an open source application server, like JBoss. It's free (1 CPU on Solaris), but not open source. Netbeans, the IDE, is open source.
  4. <snip>
    Sun won't make JBoss certified
    </snip>

    Are you speaking as a Sun employee, someone who would know what Sun will do in the future? Or is this statement just masking your personal opinion?
  5. "<snip>
    Sun won't make JBoss certified
    </snip>

    Are you speaking as a Sun employee, someone who would know what Sun will do in the future? Or is this statement just masking your personal opinion? "

    Neither. I was correcting the other guys statement. He said that Sun will not make JBoss "compliant". You need to do nothing to say you are compliant except be compliant. What he meant to say was that Sun will not make JBoss "certified". The certification somes from Sun and Sun only.
  6. Sun needs to buy weblogic.
  7. <QUOTE>
     Sun needs to buy weblogic.
    </QUOTE>

    Agreed. And after they have fucked up that product there is nothing out there that will stop JBoss dominating the whole J2EE app server market.

    /T
  8. Except for lousy documentation but that can besolved with a simple open source project of writers.
  9. I am sure McNealy is drooling to have BEA's software business. But I doubt it will ever happen. Why?

    Does he have enough cash to buy BEA? SUNW stocks are surely worthless now and will be like that for a while.

    If he does get BEAS, can he retain the managers and give them autonomy to run the business independently? McNealy and his lieutenants have no clue how to run a software business. I doubt the B & A of BEA will trust McNealy either.

    If some one like SUNW or HPQ starts a bid for BEAS, figure Larry Ellison will get in the thick of things. Larry cannot bear to see his Oracle9iAS beaten badly by WebLogic.

    Just some thoughts.
  10. Eric,

    Cash is not always a primary driver of buyouts. Depressed stock? Low debt? High cash on hand?

    For example, say BEA's stock is also depressed, and they have very low debt. Sun could buy them, then issue debt against the company to payoff the buyout. Even better, if BEA has a ton of cash, use _that_ to defray some of the buyout. I don't know the answer to these, and I really don't feel like looking them up. But just because Sun has depressed stock and low cash (don't know that either, just guessing) doesn't mean they wouldn't be interested.

    Hell, there are so many little ways of buying a company in stock swaps that make the parent companies PE/PB ratio look higher (although they're all ghost accounting).

    Still, I don't see Sun buying them for other reasons.

    -Newt
  11. Agreed. The major obstacle lies not in the financial aspect (although I still think it would hurt SUNW's bottomline in a big way), but in that SUNW does not have a good track record of generating profits from its software business. Otherwise why would Bill Coleman and Alfred Chaung left SUNW and start BEAS?

    If the Sun ONE app server continues to do poorly in the market in the next 12 to 18 months, SUNW could potentially be crazy enough again to want to buy WebLogic, because they did buy NetDynamics, Netscape Application Server, and Forte with the urge to become No. 1 in app servers. I believe McNealy still holds the same dream he had 3 years ago. He wants to have a top-selling app server, which is why he attacked JBoss recently. The question is: who would trust him not to screw up again?
  12. Sun should do the sensible thing and buy bea
  13. If SUNW does aquire BEAS (I don't know anything) they MUST keep BEAS as a separate entity else it will go the way of Forte, ND, Kiva, NetBeans.

    BTW, I believe BEAS has logically instituted a poisen pill to prevent any unwanted takeovers.

    SUNW needs BEAS, not the other way around.
  14. Poison pills just make it more difficult (i.e. expensive) to make a hostile move.

    In any case, don't rule out that BEA's shareholders would one day realize the need to sell out to maximize their investment. So far, they've had trouble innovating on anything beyond the application server (Workshop excepted).
  15. I think Dell needs to buy BEA and Linux distro and then beat the crap out of MS.
  16. Actually SUNW buying BEAS will make sense financially. It will translate to about 5 cents a share to Sun's bottom line. Sun does have about 6 billion in cash and BEA's market cap is around 2.3 billion. So sun can easily afford to buy them.

    The question is 1) why would sun would want to buy BEA and 2) why would BEA agree to such a take over.

    1) Buying BEA will immediately achieve market dominance. It will deprive dell or oracle the chance to buy bea which will really hurt sun. Sun can then bundle WebLogic with Solaris and Linux and charge for big runtime licenses. Sun will have a great turnkey solution with BEA portal. And don't forget Tuxedo. Sun sells a lot more Solaris boxes than does IBM with AIX. Face it, people like weblogic and hate websphere. If you think Sun's software sucks, wait till you try IBM's. This will also pave the way for an Oracle + Sun merger which will finally put them on equal footing with IBM. Sun will be able to save a lot of development money needed to bring their app server up to par with the others.

    2) BEA is being attacked by IBM, Oracle Microsoft and Sun. Sooner or later they will be beat. A Solaris/Linux bundling will ensure market dominance on the server side. They will get a big premium, perhaps as much as 50%.

    Tarek
  17. Why does everyone think that Sun should by BEA? Have you even tried the appserver 7 beta? It is a quantum leap beyond the iplanet appserver and is very developer friendly, on par with the BEA platform 7. Sun has also released a new version of their Portal Server which looks like it easier to customize and develope with. The SunONE architecture is an Open Net Environment which provides the basic architecture (the same one that BEA and IBM push) and an implementation to realize the architecture. It is open in the fact that if you do not like their app server you can use another one and it will be easy to integrate in with the stack. The SunONE platform allows companies to pick and choose which pieces of the stack they want to buy from Sun and which ones they want to buy from another vendor.

    With that said, it makes no sense for Sun to by BEA. Sun is trying to lower the cost of J2EE and open it up by making their appserver free for developement and production on all platforms including windows and linux. This is an effort to compete with .Net and it's inherent vendor lock in. How can you have an open environment whenever their are only two choices, IBM or Sun? Buying BEA would drastically damage the J2EE market and is a move contrary to their current corporate vision.
     
  18. I was playing with the Beta sun one server 7.0 during the weekend, I was not able to believe that sun improve the quality of the server. I have bitter experience with sun application servers, (kiva, and iPlanet). I think sun is in the right path and some one in sun really thought and developed the server. I feel there is no need for sun to buy BEA. Sun idea of sun one and application architecture is similar to the IBM and BEA. I strongly feel Oracle may buy BEA to improve their market share and J2ee tech stack.

    As far as long term vision SUN and Oracle should merge and they can provide a complete stack of technology and the combined company is better equip to beat IBM and M$ devil.

    -Monic
  19. I see all this talk that Sun should buy BEA. Based on their past track record I don't think it is a good idea. They have acquired a number of application servers and manage to be at the end of the market race all the time.

    If Sun is to buy any product and wreck it might as well be WebObjects. They are the best at identifying excellent products, renaming them, buying more of them, making promises, and then running them all into the ground. Might as well take out WebObjects while your at it.

    Greg
  20. Mike
    just one remark:
    according to the announcements, the platform edition is free on
    all supported platform (win2k,linux,aix...), not only on Solaris.
    the announcement doesn't mention any CPU number restriction about the free license.
    Peter
  21. Wow!

    Sun makes a J2EE server?! Does anyone use it?

    Sorry for the sarcasm... I am still bitter over how they massacred Net Dynamics.

    Greg
  22. It's the #3 app server in the market. How far up the list did NetD make it?
  23. NetDynamics was the king of Java app servers before J2EE was formalized. Tengah, SilverStream, and Kiva were also-runs.
  24. #3 is fairly generous. Even if they were isn't this a complete replacement of their previously awful Kiva based product?
  25. 9 months behind IBM! Excellent job!

    Hey Sun: Give up the ghost and just buy BEA baby! Or, better yet, suck it up and finally sell out to Microsoft!

    YAWN!

  26.   The only Sun´s application server which worked, was NetDynamics :-) . iPlanet is one of the worst.

       I said several months ago in another forum: "I think the only way to make me using iPlanet would be to re-code it."

       Is this Sun ONE a complete recode of iPlanet? Anyway, I wouldn´t trust Sun anymore in application servers market.

       Jose R.
  27. Is this Sun ONE a complete recode of iPlanet?


    Yes it as. Source:
    http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/community/chat/JavaLive/2002/jl0730.html

    Deepak Balakrishna: AS 7 is not based on iPlanet App Server 6.x, though we will have a migration path for apps developed for iPlanet AS 6 (using the migration tool I mentioned earlier). AS 7 is based on a suite of technologies leveraged from different parts of Sun -- most prominently the iPlanet Web Server and the J2EE reference implementation. Changes have been made to the inherited technologies to achieve leading performance and a good user experience.
  28. so you get a web server and a modified version of the reference implementation?
  29. so you get a web server and a modified version of the reference implementation?


    Good point...
  30. check the manuals of the standard edition at
    http://docs.sun.com/?p=coll/s1_asse_en
  31. Uhm, the reference implementation has been J2EE 1.3 for the longest time.

     IBM?

    IBM still can't make and app server or IDE that supports the latest version of the JDK. Websphere 4.0 is NOT J2EE 1.3 compliant...it's not even EJB 2.0 comnpliant. Websphere 5.0 may or may not come out soon...they seem to have delayed again. IBM is beat out by JBoss, BEA, Oracle and the Reference Implementation every time!

    So please don't bring up IBM...they do a lot of good for Java and J2EE but their products are usually 1 to 2 versions behind the current standards (strange for the most expensive, developer-unfriendly implementation as well)

    Mike
  32. <Mike>
    Uhm, the reference implementation has been J2EE 1.3 for the longest time.
     IBM?
    IBM is beat out by JBoss, BEA, Oracle and the Reference Implementation every time!
    </Mike>

    WebSphere 5.0 TD was released last January, and was J2EE 1.3 certified ahead of JBoss, BEA, and Oracle.

    Randy
  33. WebSphere and J2EE 1.3 Compliance[ Go to top ]

    Are you serious?? Who cares if "WebSphere 5.0 TD" is J2EE 1.3 compliant. That is basically a beta version. If it was more than that, IBM would have released it by now.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to WebSphere 5.0 when it is released. 4.0 was a big step in the right direction from 3.5, and I'm happier than a hog in the mud that IBM is dropping VAJ. WSAD, while it has it's issues, is a pretty good tool. I think WebSphere/WSAD 5.0 combo will be pretty killer, but it ain't out yet. IBM can tout J2EE 1.3 compliance once 5.0 is GA. Until then, it's all marketing.

    I think the real winners to bragging rites are those who get a fully J2EE compliant PRODUCTION READY app server out the dooer. Who has done that yet?? JBoss has (free). JRun has (comparatively dirt-cheap). Borland has (a very under-rated app server, IMO). I know there are others. I've heard a lot of complaints about BEA's effort, so I don't really know where they fall, and we're still waiting for IBM's WAS 5.0 to go GA.

    It's funny how the "market leaders" are really struggling to keep up. They sound more like "market followers" to me.

    Just my two pennys.

    Chris
  34. We've been using iPlanet 6.0 and 6.5 for a year. We had some pain at first. Not all of that pain was on the iPlanet side. Sure, we thought the way certain things were done (EJB deployment, Rich client development for EJBs) seemed odd, but once we got the app server installed, our app deployed, we were surprised by how fast the thing was. Frankly, we are looking forward to using 7.0.
  35. I take it all back.[ Go to top ]

    In my earlier comment, I actually said a few nice things about iPlanet 6.5 app server. I take it all back. In fact, it wasn't me who wrote that. It was my evil twin.

    Everything about 6.5 is bad. Yes, it may be fast once it's up and running. But getting to that point is a big waste of time. You're better off getting a root canal than going through the pain of using 6.5 on a daily basis.

    I would say that in a typical day, at least two hours is wasted twiddling with the damn thing. It's slow to start up, strange things happen while it runs, the RMI engine is unstable, the ejbc compiler hangs for no reason or because a String is being concatenated with the + operator in an EJB (Really, this just happened AGAIN last night during a build process), the documentation is incomplete and flat wrong in some cases, and the deployment process is incredibly slow.

    My evil twin said that we're looking forward to using 7.0. Actually, I've killed my evil twin and the rest of us are pushing to use Tomcat and JBoss.
  36. BTW.....if you liked NetDynamics...Sun is on the verge of releasing a "ND" like development tool for developing J2EE applications....heavily component based...but very productive like the old ND studio
  37. <David>
    BTW.....if you liked NetDynamics...Sun is on the verge of releasing a "ND" like development tool for developing J2EE applications....heavily component based...but very productive like the old ND studio
    </David>

    Is there any official information about this anywhere? :)

    Greg
  38. Some talented ex-NetDynamics folks at Sun have been working on this since Sun bought NetDynamics (and as some correctly said, ran it to the ground, like other app servers they have bought). It was called the iPlanet Application Framework (aka Jato) not too long ago. They have basically taken the amazingly powerful NetDynamics framework and refactored it on top of J2EE. It will be interesting to see if Sun will ship it not only as a framework but also with studio (wizards/editors) support like the old NetDynamics environment did.

    Cheers. Jill.
  39. Sun is a waste of time.[ Go to top ]

    We are using iPlanet 6.5 and even if iPlanet 7 is a quantum leap, I wouldn't touch it. Their product support is awful. Besides being slow and difficult to understand, they always come up with ridiculous requests before they will help. I get better responses more quickly from the JBoss forum than the support our company pays for from Sun. I can get a better framework and APIs from Apache/Jakarta. I get nothing but frustration from Sun.

    Sun should get out of software yesterday. Our company is in the process of reviewing a replacement.
  40. Sun is a waste of time.[ Go to top ]

    Hi,

      If Sun has wasted NetDynamics, I whish they take NetDynamics to an Open source project. This would be great. Maybe it could fly again as a solution for fast development to small-medium web projects, although ND is dead a long time ago, is anybody still using it out there?

      
  41. <jill>
    Some talented ex-NetDynamics folks at Sun have been working on this since Sun bought NetDynamics (and as some correctly said, ran it to the ground, like other app servers they have bought). It was called the iPlanet Application Framework (aka Jato) not too long ago. They have basically taken the amazingly powerful NetDynamics framework and refactored it on top of J2EE. It will be interesting to see if Sun will ship it not only as a framework but also with studio (wizards/editors) support like the old NetDynamics environment did.
    </jill>

    I've seen JATO (Sun ONE App Framework) demo'ed. This is true, but it's not ND at all, just has all the great features with better MVC design, and more scalable. This framework has been out for over 2 years being used by large companies in large apps. And with the addition of the upcoming tools that David Leonard refers to, the ex-ND community will really like, and the advanced developers will get to dig in and do what they need to do.
  42. <greg>
    <David>
    BTW.....if you liked NetDynamics...Sun is on the verge of releasing a "ND" like development tool for developing J2EE applications....heavily component based...but very productive like the old ND studio
    </David>

    Is there any official information about this anywhere? :)
    </greg>

    I here its all due to release within a month.
  43. Are you talking about ACE? http://research.sun.com/features/ace/
  44. It's not ACE.
  45. Greetings,

    I am at the middle of evaluation of Sun ONE Standard Edition Server. It looks great. Installation, management, samples, etc. everything went very smooth without problems. I would say that it is very good application server. My evaluation has not been finished yet so maybe I will find something. For now here the list of nice noticeable features:
    - easy to use
    - integration with Ant
    - nice management console
    - samples that start working after "single click".
    Looking forward to try Platform Edition

    Best regards,

    Taras
  46. I have been using IBM Websphere 4.0 for a year and it is champ
    in my workshop. I am not using EJB though but using JDBC datasource connection. IBM Websphere 4.0 is J2EE 1.2 compliant but it runs on JDK 1.3.1. The performance and stability and scalabilty is far superior than BEAS Weblogic 7.0. We did load tests and WAS 4.0 beats Weblogic 7.0 by more than 30% . Weblogic 7.0 has memory leak on its session clustering so server goes down quite often . The WAS 4.0 server has been up for 6 months with zero down time.
  47. I have been using IBM Websphere 4.0 for a year and it is >champ

    >in my workshop. I am not using EJB though but using JDBC >datasource connection. IBM Websphere 4.0 is J2EE 1.2 >compliant but it runs on JDK 1.3.1. The performance and >stability and scalabilty is far superior than BEAS >Weblogic 7.0. We did load tests and WAS 4.0 beats Weblogic >7.0 by more than 30% . Weblogic 7.0 has memory leak on its >session clustering so server goes down quite often . The >WAS 4.0 server has been up for 6 months with zero down >time.

    If you are not using EJB, then you need not be using an overpriced product for your job because you are using only about 30% of the J2EE architecture. I have been running apache and jserv for years without any problem too for that matter.
  48. C'mon guys, someone get us a thorough review... please! iPlanet 6.0 stank, but Sun's got some bright people working on this one - so it could be very good or very bad.

    Easy to use GUIs are all very nice, but how about how it deals with the things iPlanet 6.0 and 6.5 had bugs with:
    * distributed transaction management,
    * proper handling of checked and unchecked exceptions coming out of EJBs,
    * support for message beans

    As I remember, iPlanet 6.0 sample apps before service pack 1 came out were a bit misleading, in that they carefully skirted the app server's problems. So I'm very much looking forward to a thorough review of this new app server.