Discussions

News: Sybase Releases Enterprise Portal 5

  1. Sybase Releases Enterprise Portal 5 (12 messages)

    Sybase this week released Enterprise Portal 5, consisting of tools and frameworks to simplify web portal development. The new version boasts code-free portlet development, support for multiple databases and application servers, including Sybase EAServer, BEA WebLogic and IBM Websphere, and more.

    Check out Enterprise Portal 5 and read the press release.

    Threaded Messages (12)

  2. Sybase Releases Enterprise Portal 5[ Go to top ]

    A little late to the game...
  3. Sybase Releases Enterprise Portal 5[ Go to top ]

    Late? Not really, their app & portal servers have been around ages (hell, Jaguar was one of the first app servers to get J2EE 1.2 certified). They just don't get much press coverage compared to Weblogic, Websphere, etc.
  4. Andrew is right.
    Sybase has really good product compared to others, but their marketing just sucks.

    (Note : EAS 4.1 was the second product after Pramati to be J2EE 1.3 certified. And that's a production release, not a early access..... )
  5. Sybase has really good product compared to others


    It is depends on how you performing comparison between products :)
  6. »»It is depends on how you performing comparison between products :)

    I didnt mean Sybase products are better, but just some of them are as good as others, even if Sybase is not seen a market leader.

    - Take a look ASE 12 database, the performance and the functionalities offered.
    - Think about App Serevr EAS 4.1. Do you think WebSphere support EJB 2.0, servlet 2.3...(well J2EE 1.3)
    - Now try PowerDesigner for the UML part. Maybe you could be surprised.
    - For 2-tier dev, PowerBuilder is one of the best IDE, and the only competing product is Delphi IMHO.
    - What about Replication server ? Well, even replication from Oracle to Oracle is used using Sybase products in a lot of leading industries.
    - I only have to admit that the java IDE (PowerJ) needed a few correction when I stopped working with it 2 years ago. :-)

    I can't talk about Portals, I haven't got enough knowledge in that domain.
  7. I only have to admit that the java IDE (PowerJ) needed a few correction when I stopped working with it 2 years ago. :-)


    That's why there's JBuilder Sybase Edition now (JBuilder with Sybase's plugin for EAS) :)
    PowerJ was really bad.
  8. Sybase Releases Enterprise Portal 5[ Go to top ]

    interesting! it is running on Apatche Tomcat Server only-.

    Is there any commercial EIP running on Jboss ?

    thank u
    faisal
  9. Jean-Louis Marechaux wrote:
    >"I didnt mean Sybase products are better, but just some of them are as good as others:

    >-Take a look ASE 12 database, the performance and the functionalities offered.

    I don't need to take a look - I work with ASE 11/12 during last two years. I have to admit - performance is really good, at least for small number of connections.

    However, functionality of ASE really makes me suffer :(
    Especially - to compare with ORACLE (I have plenty of years designing databases using ORACLE). Although ASE has the greatest number of version (perhaps) to compare with other DBMS, it is does not mean greater or even equal functionality with many of other database servers. More over, lack of functionality is a weakest point of ASE - there is a number of small, but very serious problems both with designing/developing and maintaining ASE. Almost all of this problems could be solved by software engineer, but it switches his attention on solving ASE problems - not the business area problems. IMHO, all such problems have the same root – impossibility to divide complex problem on several small, localize them all, and solve. And, as result, provide best solution. For example, why Sybase does not provide something like ORACLE’s (DB2, INTERBASE) SEQUENCE class? Is it really difficult for Sybase team? I don’t think so – they already have an identity property. In case, it is impossible to provide additional, separate functionality of identity property, it means only one thing - BAD functional design of DBMS.
    From other point of view, INTERBASE have sequences almost twenty years. What about VARCHAR over 255 chars? Sybase have implemented it only recently. Other DBMS vendors have implemented this functionality ten or twenty years ago. Why it is takes so long for Sybase team to understand simple things? And real bussiness needs? Of course, I can split big string onto chunks; redesign business functionality in order to avoid usage of sequences, or simulate functionality of SEQUENCE. Anyway, it takes extra efforts and time to apply (usually my personal time beyond project schedule). But, it should be CORE database functionality, not my personal preferences!!! It is only couple of examples of hundreds possible. I’m not tellling you about possible problems during maintaining Sybase ASE – as data architect/designer/ app developer, I have very small experience with administering databases, but it is enough to see such problems. If Sybase ASE really wanna be one of the best, or at least to be up-to-date in Enterprise environment (third letter in ASE means Enterprise, right?), Sybase ASE dev team needs to work very hard and very fast.

    In short, developing with ASE makes me feel bad – “struggling for my life in Antarctica, totally alone without clothes and food” :(. Developing with ORACLE makes me feel good, very good – “enjoying beautiful scenery of tropical island, drinking gin and tonic, and just relax.” Yea!!! :)


    I have no commercial experience with other Sybase products, mentioned by you, and frankly speaking, I have no intention to do it because of my experience with ASE.

    > Think about App Serevr EAS 4.1. Do you think WebSphere support EJB 2.0, servlet 2.3...

    Why I have to think about App Server EAS? I have no idea, how deep WebSphere supports J2EE/EJB, as well as EAS. Does it provides something special to compare with plenty of other competitors? Or less bugs? I don’t think so too.

    > Now try PowerDesigner for the UML part. Maybe you could be surprised.

    I hope, PowerDesigner is great product (at least I heard good comment from my colleagues), but I have fantastic opportunity to work with Rational Rose EE.

    >For 2-tier dev, PowerBuilder is one of the best IDE, and the only competing product is Delphi IMHO.

    I don’t know about PowerBuilder, but Delphi is intended not only for 2-tier dev. I have used Delphi in 1995-1997’s, and have to admit it is really good product, which have no serious limits, and really RAD tool! But Object Pascal is less succsessfull than JAVA. Half of decade ago I read PowerBuilder dev guide and I realized, some of PowerBuilder API features didn’t follow MVC paradigm :(. And I don’t wanna learn another scripting language, developed and supported only by one company. I think, it is enough for me – assembler, C++, JAVA, Object Pascal, PL/SQL, T-SQL… At least for now.


    So, instead of “take a look”, or “think about” would be better to try to use these products in real enterprise environment in order to check offered solutions and real bussiness needs… And from this point of view SYBASE has, and will have a plenty of successful competitors. I don’t have an intension ot offend Sybase guys, but reality so far from advertisement :)
  10. I'm working with Oracle and Sybase and I have some comments on Sergey Litsenko post.

    <q>
      why Sybase does not provide something like ORACLE&#8217;s (DB2, INTERBASE) SEQUENCE class? Is it really difficult for Sybase team?
    </q>

    Why Oracle does not provide something like autoincrement. Is it really difficult for Oracle team? :-)

    If you need to have SEQUENCE functionality you can do it yourself - it takes just few lines of code.
    (I can share if you want it). Actually I prefer Hi-Low pattern for key generation.
    And about Oracle functionality: you know that Oracle does not support milliseconds until v.9?
    My point: there is no perfect DB or tool yet.

    <q>
      I have very small experience with administering databases, but it is enough to see such problems.
    </q>

      No questions - it's a lot easier to administering Sybase than Oracle and it's a lot less expensive too :-)

    <q>
     In short, developing with ASE makes me feel bad
    </q>

     Don't take it personally, it's just business :-)

    <q>
     Why I have to think about App Server EAS? I have no idea, how deep WebSphere supports J2EE/EJB, as well as EAS.
     Does it provides something special to compare with plenty of other competitors? Or less bugs? I don&#8217;t think so too.
    </q>

     You don't have to think, just compare. For example you can use components written in C, C++, java, PowerBuilder,
     COM (it means in Delphi also) etc. And all components can be used/behave as EJB. Hmm... EJB written in Delphi. There are more unique features,
     So, it is "something special" :-)
     BTW, current version of WebSphere is not complied with J2EE 1.3
     and Sybase EAServer was the second. Anyway, I'm using JBoss now :-)

    <q>
     I don&#8217;t know about PowerBuilder, but Delphi is intended not only for 2-tier dev.
    <q/>

     PowerBuilder can be used not only for 2-tier apps. Check out the Web DataWindow.
     and again it's can be used to create components in EAServer CORBA style or EJB.
     For business C/S data driven apps it's still the best (thanks to unique DataWindow/DataStore)

    <q>
     Half of decade ago I read PowerBuilder dev guide and I realized, some of PowerBuilder API features didn&#8217;t follow MVC paradigm
    </q>

     I know there is a lot of java, C++ etc. code "didn&#8217;t follow MVC paradigm"
     I think it depends on developer :-)
    <q>

     And from this point of view SYBASE has, and will have a plenty of successful competitors.
    </q>

     That's true also for SUN, Oracle, IBM, M$, etc.

    P.S. just trying to be objective...
  11. Posted by Leonard Gurevich:
    >"Why Oracle does not provide something like autoincrement. Is it really difficult for Oracle team? :-) "

    You just took my gun :)

    100% Agree. However, sequence allow to do it very simply, - it takes just few lines of code. (I can share if you want it). - Now, I return my gun back :)

    > "you can do it yourself "
    Unfortunately, its happpens more frequently than I wish to.

    >you know that Oracle does not support milliseconds until v.9?

    Yea, I know :( Thats why I choose for my new project Oracle 9i - event history in PIN should support milliseconds.

    > No questions - it's a lot easier to administering Sybase than Oracle and it's a lot less expensive too :-)

    I can not really fight in "administration area", but I can
    ask you just one question related to Sybase: "How easly to determine, which objects are INVALID, in case its happend? For example one of 1000's SP became invalid and few of others depend on it. How to determine this SP before calling it in order to fix?" In ORACLE I can easly check status - VALID. What about SYBASE? I does not found anything similar in sysobjects & sysprocedures. And this is just one of my questions :-)

    So, as for now I disagree with your last statement.

    > Don't take it personally, it's just business :-)

    I don't :) I just express my feeling in minute of sadness :)
    Sure, its a business, if according to requirements I have to design model for Sybase, - I will, although my heart belongs to ORACLE DB (I'm an one of ORACLE employees) I have no problem with that.

    > You don't have to think, just compare....So, it is "something special" :-)
      
    Dont take it seriously. Sometimes its just modern slogan, and on practise - a lot of bugs :) I hope, I'm wrong with PowerBuilder, and it provides best of best RAD functionality without any serious limitations and bugs.
    I just dont need it, I'm in love with JAVA & Open Source :)

       
    >I know there is a lot of java, C++ etc. code "didn't follow MVC paradigm"
    > I think it depends on developer :-)

    Sure, it depends. I prefer to separate business logic and its presentation. Good example - about two years ago I developed small test JAVA app, which connect to DB using JDBC (JConnect) and displays retrieved data using JTable via Table Model. And in order to compare performance JDBC (JConnect)/SWING with existed tool Sybase SQL Advantage (MFC4.2), I received such results:
    - for small result sets (1000 records and 10 columns) both app performing operations with same responce time.

    - for large result sets (50000 record and 50 columns) Java app up to 10 times FASTER - thanks to JConnect and separation between model and view!

    I guess such difference in results is obtained because of double/triple data caching in SQL Advantage ->data retrieving -> grid displaying.

    > That's true also for SUN, Oracle, IBM, M$, etc.

    Agree 100% :)


    > P.S. just trying to be objective...

    Me too. However, there is no 100% objective opinion, including mine :)

    P.S. ALexandex Duma wrote :"Every general conclusion is dangerous including this one" :-)
  12. I'm wrote: I'm an one of ORACLE employees

    I'm NOT an employee of ORACLE Corp.
  13. Late to the game? The portal game? Hah! This stuff is just starting to become useful. We haven't seen anything yet. Most portal implementations are still stuck in first generation technology anyway.

    -Ray