Why does JBoss suck so much? I mean, the documentation is written by foreigners to the English language and lack writing skills period. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not against anyone writing free documentation. But these people don't even having any authoring ability whatsoever. Some of the sections just don't even make any sense. They talk about templates and don't tell you where to first look for it. The talk about this and that and never follow the principle "tell them what you are going to tell them; tell them; tell them what you told them". There are a bunch of other quirks with the documentation that just make it very low quality.
"That's what the paid documentation is for". So you give out crap documentation to make us buy the documentation for over a hundred dollars? We can buy technical books for $30. Isn't that slightly overpriced? How do I even know the paid documentation isn't written by the same people?
The server itself is also slow, the configuration files are messy and it doesn't even come with the scripts to install it as a service (what gives?) - we have to do this ourselves, not to mention we can't copy and paste the instructions since it's PDF. Even then, they don't work because they are incorrect (poor documentation).
JBoss has some serious issues. I understand it's open source, but the whole "we hold back the documentation" isn't very open at all. In fact, it's a step backwards from open-source.
Good things? Well, it's up to date and it does run out of the box, but that's about it. The speed is so terrible that I can't make much use of it anyway unless I expect 1 person to be visiting my extranet at a time - and no way that is going to happen.
Sorry JBoss, but Resin and Orion look so much better from where I am standing.
I agree with you that documentation should be given free incase you want to call it "real open source and free appserver". Just by giving source doesn't mean than it is ***complete opensource product***. Do they expect us to digout in the code and find out a way how to use all the features? So any developer who really wants to use the JBoss has to spend the $ for documentation. If someone wants to learn all features of an appserver, then they better download the evaluation version of weblogic, websphere or SunONE AppServ. Atleast we can find enough documentation about those products.
Atleast they can publish the documentation as PDFs in non-printable format (like MasteringEJB book).
I hope anyone from JBoss Group will try to address this issue...
Have either of you considered that the "pay documentation" (plus the consulting services) are part of the BUSINESS for JBoss? They don't operate in a vacuum - someone has to pay for the stuff that you CAN get for free.
If you don't like it, don't use it. That's what open source is about - choice. And whining about it here will get you even less...
It's not whining, it's giving an opinion, and quite frankly, I think it is worth saying. I understand that JBoss is a business, but they have set it up so that if you want to do anything with the server, eventually you'll have to pay them something. In otherwords, you are getting locked in. I'm sorry, but I refuse to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars into documentation or training just to find I don't like the server in the first place. If I'm not even given the oppurtunity to maximimize my own potential using my own time and resources, then I want to stay clear of it. Essentially what they are promoting is hand-holding and they need they need to lock you into this so they can make money. That sounds like a pretty unethical business model if you ask me. It's really too bad you can't see it.
Oh - and this is different from paying $x0,000 USD per CPU for a different commercial-grade server?
As for using it, I'm using it quite well enough without paying for the documentation. It's not that hard to figure out, the "Getting Started Guide" (despite it's flaws) has enough in it to get you going. For the rest, well - there's plenty of examples, the services are easy to figure out (even if you really don't "know" JMX)... and there's always the source code.
If you don't want/like it, don't use it. And there's absolutely nothing "unethical" about their business practices. They're quite up front about it - which is more than I can say about other software companies. Vendor lock-in is not a new model.
Perhaps taking off the rose-colored glasses would be in order? Not a cheap-shot, but your position is extremely puzzling to me...
And that's the quite the point, Orion and Resin cost me nothing as well for non-commercial use. So in otherwards, I actually pay less and get more. Although in the commercial market, JBoss has some pluses, in the non-commercial market, it just doesn't compete very well. You'll also notice that this little observation kind of cancels out anything both of you said as well. I'm a non-for-profit group myself and JBoss's model doesn't work for me.
I think you definitely should not use JBoss. Thanks for sharing.
I don't know what the big deal is. It's nothing new, Log4j does the same thing (basic docs for free, complete docs available if you buy the book). If that's "offensive" to you then as another poster said, don't use it.
It's just another factor to (calmly) take into account when evaluating a product. If you'd rather pay $10000 for a WL license with complete docs, vs let's say a couple hundred $ for JBoss with complete docs, ok then, have at it.
I don't think this rises to the level of a ng rant though. I don't know where you got the idea that OSS=All free all the time. In fact there are plenty of for-profit models around OSS, like RedHat, Log4J, and JBoss. If that offends you then I guess that's just one less person using RH Linux, Log4J, and JBoss.
P.S. I'll go ahead an retitle