JBoss the Next Apache?

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News: JBoss the Next Apache?

  1. JBoss the Next Apache? (16 messages)

    An interesting editorial piece has been published that is suggesting that JBoss is becoming to the app server what Apache is to the web server. What does the J2EE community think?

    Read JBoss the Next Apache?

    Threaded Messages (16)

  2. Or is Apache the Next JBoss?[ Go to top ]

    JBoss is an excellent piece of software, and certainly leads the pack when it comes to open source app servers, but I think it is a long way from having everything sown up yet.

    With the commoditization of J2EE, Sun could hand over the reference implementation to Apache, seeing it as a "friendly" partner (as it has in the past). Apache already has its own JMX server backbone (Avalon/Phoenix) and it might be able to do a nice job, given time, of making a very slick open-source J2EE. Even if this doesn't happen there's OpenEJB just screaming to be integrated into Avalon. Apache have a very compelling set of solutions, they are just lacking EJB which JBoss Group claim is only 30% of JBoss anyway. The difference between what JBoss and Apache currently provide is, on the surface, really more a question of packaging than of substance.

    Also, I think JBoss Group could easily be dropping the ball here. No one can blame them for wanting to make a business from open source, but their current policy of charging for documentation and (by their own admission) wanting to create a kind of benign monopoly with regards to JBoss is, in my opinion, going to scare a lot of people off who might see them as trying to be the Microsoft of open source. There's a balance to be made between being the authorative source of JBoss support and being the overbearing bad boys - I'm not sure they've got it right yet.

    The bottom line is that this isn't a game of the next six months or a year but the next five years. Who can possibly predict which way things will go?

    Ian.
  3. Or is Apache the Next JBoss?[ Go to top ]

    Also, I think JBoss Group could easily be dropping the >ball here. No one can blame them for wanting to make a >business from open source, but their current policy of >charging for documentation


    Note that the 400Page JBoss3.0.4 Administration and Developer's Guide e-documentation only costs $10.

    /rolf
  4. Or is Apache the Next JBoss?[ Go to top ]

    <rolf>
    Note that the 400Page JBoss3.0.4 Administration and Developer's Guide e-documentation only costs $10.
    </rolf>

    I'd never argue that $10 isn't good value for money, only that it is impossible to divorce the success of many open source projects from the open documentation that often comes with them. If the documentation cost $1 it would still hurt JBoss. It creates a psychological barrier for developers thinking about using JBoss on their next project - if they can't do work out how to do something from the documentation on the web site they move onto another approach rather than getting out their credit cards and filling in an expenses claim form for the cost.

    JBoss Group have their unique selling point - they wrote the software. They still seem to be tuning their business model, which is fine, I just think selling documentation probably won't be in their long term interests (or ours).

    Ian.
  5. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    There is at least one inaccuracy in the article. This is the part I take exception to: "JBoss' biggest drawback is that it doesn't have a large support network in place. Anyone using JBoss has to rely on its relatively small developer community" JBoss Group DOES have a large netowrk of JBoss Authorized Consultants. While this group does include the core developers, it also includes individuals who have taken the advance training and passed a certification test and are available through JBoss Group to provide consulting on all aspects of JBoss. Talk to Ben Sabrin, Director of Sales and Business Development, ben at jboss dot org, for further information.
  6. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    There is at least one more inacuracy, I don´t really take exception to it, but:
    <quote>
    The absence of proprietary technology offers advantages to independent software vendors.
    </qoute>

    What about JBossQL. That´s not really standard.
  7. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    My own experience with JBoss was both favorable and not. I like the way it's architected and componentized. I don't like the documentation, which I paid for. It wasn't expensive but it wasn't as detailed as I'd have expected. That's probably because the part I was most interested in is one of the weakest links in Jboss: the JMS implementation. Although the server architecture and a lot of components are documented very well and seem to be feature rich, the JMS implementation is not documented well at all (except for detailed descriptions of the config xml elements). I ran into particular trouble with doing persistent topics and persistent messages over JDBC. There were no real examples and I had to dig to find any kind of hint of guaranteed messaging.
    I ended up using OpenJMS. I was able to get the same information out of their documentation extremely quickly and it was extremely easy to get up and running. I don't know how OpenJMS would stand up in an enterprise environment but for my web application it's working very nicely. I spent about a week or so with no success trying to get JBoss to do what I got OpenJMS to do in 2 hours.
    Of course, JMS is only one part of J2EE, though in my opinion it's actually more valuable than EJBs.
  8. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    I think that article may be right. Guys at JBOSS keep up the good work.

    They all talk about your arrogance. Did they ever thought that maybe you're entitled to do that ? With all this crap J2EE container vendors are selling us for thousands dollars ? If you give me an enterprise working EJB (and not only) container FOR FREE I wouldn't mind you to tell me even how stupid I am if would like it (which is not the case by the way) :-)

    I think JBOSS is great, JBOSS team is great, my only concern is if they would ever crush under the preasure and stop developing the product.
  9. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    Plain and simple: No way. The main reason is that the apache web server was able to play on a mainly empty market.

    JBoss is playing in a different kind of environment facing tough competition from the likes of IBM, BEA, Oracle etc.
    To build a decent, stable, easy to install, easy to confgure and fast J2EE App Server you will generally need a huge amount of manpower. This is radically different from building a web server or a part of the J2EE environment.

    The only for this to be possible, is if any J2EE app server moves into open source like Linux and at the same time establishes itself as the de facto production implementation. At the moment I don't see this happening.
  10. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    I agree with the last postings comments. JBOSS is a nice solution around small applications. However, enterprise solutions require a more robust application server engine. Again, with the rediculous releases of EJB specs, how can JBOSS keep up with the demand without limiting overall functionality. This says nothing to the fact for support or documentation. All applications have bugs, but it's nice to know that support can be reached and a solution within days. Most people who have used JBOSS, myself included, have used it in a small context environment. I challange anyone to show where JBOSS was used for a Enterprise Solution with many different Interfaces. This includes security frameworks, Session Persistence management and Object level Load Balancing.

    Tim
  11. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    Plain and simple: No way. The main reason is that the apache web server was able to play on a mainly empty market. JBoss is playing in a different kind of environment facing tough competition from the likes of IBM, BEA, Oracle etc. <

    Linux has to play in this kind of environment, facing tough competition from Microsoft, Sun, and all the various other Unix flavors.

    >> To build a decent, stable, easy to install, easy to confgure and fast J2EE App Server you will generally need a huge amount of manpower. This is radically different from building a web server or a part of the J2EE environment. <
    They've already done it, haven't they? Or don't you consider JBoss to be decent, stable, easy to install, easy to configure, and fast? (I really don't know, I haven't used it much at all.)

    I personally don't care much whether they corner the appserver market or not... as long as they are always there as a free, open-source alternative.
  12. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    When is Jboss planning to have J2EE 1.3 certified?
  13. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    My understanding is that JBoss Group is no longer seeking J2EE certification because the design of JBoss has moved way beyond the J2EE spec. Not that you can't use JBoss for plain old J2EE type components, but there is so much more: READ THIS:

    http://www.jboss.org/blue.pdf
  14. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    I can't wait to read the Red and the White papers. Are they online yet?
  15. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    I use Ant and XDoclet so I don't mind which web server I run my apps on.

    Still I have found JBoss to be a great web server if a bit of a nuisance to configure and the startup time could be a bit better. ;-)

    And compared to the fact that my next option for a web server would be JRun4 which is very comparable to JBoss, JBoss is free and does pretty much the same.

    OT: Besides just think you can get Coldfusion to run JBoss as well - it is just a Java web app ;-)

    [tone]
  16. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    JBoss is meant to be merely a web server. Actually, JBoss uses Tomcat or Jetty, depending on which package you download. If all you need is a web/servlet container, then use Tomcat or Jetty by themeselves.
  17. JBoss the Next Apache?[ Go to top ]

    That should have read, "JBoss is NOT meant to merely be a web server."