Borland Releases New Java Tools

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News: Borland Releases New Java Tools

  1. Borland Releases New Java Tools (8 messages)

    This is a big week for Borland as they release their latest and greatest tools. They are shipping: JBuilder 9, Janeva (J2EE/CORBA/.NET integration tool), and C#Builder.

    JBuilder 9 has Web services support enhancements and a new integrated solution for developing mobile and wireless applications to run on many devices.

    It supports design, modeling and team development via integration of the Together and StarTeam software Borland gained in buying TogetherSoft Corp. and Starbase Corp.

    Other new features include two-way modeling; graphical debugger improvements; and automatic deployment for many J2EE servers.

    Read more about the Borland new releases
  2. I've been waiting for Borland to announce the integrated Together/JBuilder stuff, it's here, or is it?

    The sales speak is a bit confusing. It talks about "support for Borland Together Edition for JBuilder".

    Basically, I'm interested in having a single tool that I can use to model and build systems with, just as Together allowed me to do. I was support for model driven development and the ability to reverse engineer code into sequence and class diagrams - all the things Together allowed me to do.

    So, with JBuilder 9, will I do all these things within JBuilder or will I need an additional product that I will need to integrate?

    If JBuilder is cmoing packaged with Together inside it, will we be able to import UML from XMI?

    I read that it now comes with an OptimizeIt license whereas in J8 it was an additional cost - is this correct?

    What are the upgared options from J8?
  3. ...no it's not ....[ Go to top ]

    I've looked into this a bit further just to make sure I've read this stuff right: -

    The above review of JBuilder 9 states that it : -

    “…supports design and modeling via integration of the Together software Borland gained in buying TogetherSoft Corp.”
    “…Other new features include two-way modeling…”

    Borland claims

    “…JBuilder speeds EJB,™ Web client, XML, Web Services, mobile, and database application development with two-way visual designers …”
    “…Enhance productivity with UML™ code visualization…”

    Jbuilder 9 Datasheet http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/pdf/jb9_datasheet.pdf states: -

    “…Integration with the Borland Together modeling solution helps JBuilder users better understand the structure of code and manage project complexity”

    The Technical Overview http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/pdf/jb9_techview.pdf states

    “…Support for Borland Together Edition for JBuilder…”

    The FAQ mentions neither UML nor Together not modeling

    The feature matrix http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/pdf/jb9_feamatrix.pdf has no mention of Together but refers to the UML visualization tools (these are old hat limited class and package diagram support)

    Interestingly the JBuilder Enterprise home page has a suggested product integration list, which guess what, doesn’t mention Together.

    So it looks like this confirms things - JBuilder 9 doesn't come with full UML modelling I had hoped for.

    I wnoder now whether this was ever Borlands intention or whether they foresee keeping Together as just one tool in their ALM approach.

    Aaron
  4. ...no it's not ....[ Go to top ]

    JBuilder 9 does not include Together JBuilder Edition.
    Borland Enterprise Studio for Java does, but the integration between JBuilder and Together is not yet on the level we all desire (it should be in JBuilder 10 as Borland promised that full integration will be finished a 12 months after TogetherSoft acquisition).

    JBuilder 9 Enterprise does include OptimizeIt Suite and Mobile Set.

    Mileta
  5. Hi there,

    Just wanted to try and clarify some of your questions, and also help you understand a couple of things with regard to where we are going.

    JBuilder 9 Enterprise continues to provide UML Visualization support, helping developers better understand their projects. It does not provide UML modelling capabilities.

    Together Edition for JBuilder is the first step in providing an integrated JBuilder / Together environment. This allows for shared projects, with modelling being done in the Together environment and Developing (ie code) being done in the JBuilder environment. No forward / reverse engineering is required as the source code and model are always in synch. This is what could be achieved in the timescales since the acquisition.

    Borland Enterprise Studio provides the above two products in a cost effective package.

    Going forward much better integration between JBuilder and Together will be made available (though what we have today is much better than what many other vendors in this space provide). As an example of what is possible, the Optimizeit profiling tools are now fully integrated into the JBuilder IDE, and information is displayed directly within the JBuilder message windows (no jumping between tools).


    >>Interestingly the JBuilder Enterprise home page has a suggested product integration list, which guess what, doesn’t mention Together.

    This was a mistake - well spotted. Should now be corrected.

    Also, just want to mention that while integration between our products as per the ALM strategy is very important, we also recognise that each of these products has to be able to stand on it's own within it's area of the market.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, Jon.

    Jon Harrison,
    Borland EMEA Product Line Manager - Java Products.
  6. /Jon/
    JBuilder 9 Enterprise continues to provide UML Visualization support, helping developers better understand their projects. It does not provide UML modelling capabilities.
    /Jon/

    And this UML visualisation support is through the limited class and package diagrams isn't it? - Just want to make sure I'm not missing something here.

    /Jon/
    Together Edition for JBuilder is the first step in providing an integrated JBuilder / Together environment. This allows for shared projects, with modelling being done in the Together environment and Developing (ie code) being done in the JBuilder environment. No forward / reverse engineering is required as the source code and model are always in synch. This is what could be achieved in the timescales since the acquisition.
    /Jon/

    One of the first things you turn off in Together is the auto file system sync because it is so slow switching between applications. Given that JBuilder AND Together will now be reliant of the file syncing approach, won't this slow things down somewhat?

    Will I be able to turn these off and perform manual syncs when I decide I need them?

    Running Together on anything other than 512 ram is like pushing an elephant up a hill! With Together, JBuilder, Application Server, OptimizeIT and your normal run of the mill background applications, what sort of spec PC are you recommending?

    You mention that the modeling is done in Together and the codeing in JBuilder. So does Together just come with the modeling aspects or has it retained it's IDE?

    What exactly is in Together? Has the patterns support been retained in Together and can I still create custom patterns in Together? Will Together or JBuilder support things like running JUnit or ant build scripts? What about starting and stopping the app server? What about deployment diagrams? If I don't have the build capabilities from Together then what use will these be?

    The contract between Together and JBuilder is the code. So how will we ensure that we have common standards/code formatting set up for generated code. I forsee code being generated from the model in together and I want this to be able to have the same set of standards and format I work with in JBuilder. Will I be able to do this?

    /Jon/
    Borland Enterprise Studio provides the above two products in a cost effective package.
    /Jon/
     
    What are the upgrade options from JB8? And cost?

    /Jon/
    Going forward much better integration between JBuilder and Together will be made available (though what we have today is much better than what many other vendors in this space provide).
    /Jon/
    This is what Together did really well when Borland bought it. Is Borland's intention to lose the Together IDE side of things and use the JBuilder IDE face?

    /Jon/
    As an example of what is possible, the Optimizeit profiling tools are now fully integrated into the JBuilder IDE, and information is displayed directly within the JBuilder message windows (no jumping between tools).
    /Jon/
    Indeed Optimize is built into JB9, just after we've bought JB8 and separate OptimizeIt licenses :)

    It doesn't seem that long ago that JB8 was released and now JB9 is out. Having seen developers get trained specifcally in JB8 and seen significant spend on JBuilder 8 upgrades, I'm concerned, particularly with the imminent Together integration that I'm going to be ever forking out for upgrades.

    Do you have a roadmap for Together integration and product releases and contents?

    Thanks for the reply Jon, it's good to know that Borland is listening.

    Aaron
  7. Jon - One other question,

    Will Together Edition for JBuilder support XMI so that I can import models from Rational XDE, once it support XMI?
  8. /Jon/

    Going forward much better integration between JBuilder and Together will be made available (though what we have today is much better than what many other vendors in this space provide).
    /Jon/
    This is what Together did really well when Borland bought it. Is Borland's intention to lose the Together IDE side of things and use the JBuilder IDE face? <
    JBuilder and Together IDEs can't be compared. JBuilder's IDE is so much better in code editing (code navigation, formating, refactoring...), project management (library manipulation, code dependancies, archive builder...) and J2EE/J2SE features (web apps, EJBs, WebServices, CORBA, RMI, Swing/AWT...). That's why Borland is integrating JBuilder with Togerther, to provide the best from both tools.

    >>It doesn't seem that long ago that JB8 was released and now JB9 is out. Having seen developers get trained specifcally in JB8 and seen significant spend on JBuilder 8 upgrades, I'm concerned, particularly with the imminent Together integration that I'm going to be ever forking out for upgrades. <
    If you look more carefully in the Borland's JBuilder release schedule during past several years, you will find that new JBuilder versions are available every six months. You can take that into account when purchasing new JBuilder licenses.
    Although it is true that JBuilder upgrade costs are too high, you can skip a version or two and upgrade later - JBuilder upgrade costs are the same from version 4 to 9 as from 8 to 9.

    Regards,
    Mileta
  9. Hi Aaron,

    I only get a chance to drop in here every now and again so apologies if my responses can be a bit delayed at times. Let me try and go through your points:
     
    > And this UML visualisation support is through the limited class and package diagrams isn't it? - Just want to make sure I'm not missing something here.
    >
    Correct - visualisation is class and package diagrams. No modelling, just visualisation to help developers understand the project.

    >
    > One of the first things you turn off in Together is the auto file system sync because it is so slow switching between applications. Given that JBuilder AND Together will now be reliant of the file syncing approach, won't this slow things down somewhat?
    >
    > Will I be able to turn these off and perform manual syncs when I decide I need them?
    >

    I'm not a "Together expert" so I may be missing something, but when I have been using them both, there is not a noticeable delay that I have seen.

    > Running Together on anything other than 512 ram is like pushing an elephant up a hill! With Together, JBuilder, Application Server, OptimizeIT and your normal run of the mill background applications, what sort of spec PC are you recommending?
    >

    Recommended specs are on the main website - I would say 512 MB is a minimum to get things running smoothly. Modelling environments, IDEs and AppServers are all fairly heavyweight apps.

    > You mention that the modeling is done in Together and the codeing in JBuilder. So does Together just come with the modeling aspects or has it retained it's IDE?
    >

    Together ControlCenter continues as was. The Together Edition for JBuilder (and WebSphere for that matter) are intended to provide modelling features that integrate well with the code aspects of the IDE.

    > What exactly is in Together? Has the patterns support been retained in Together and can I still create custom patterns in Together? Will Together or JBuilder support things like running JUnit or ant build scripts? What about starting and stopping the app server? What about deployment diagrams? If I don't have the build capabilities from Together then what use will these be?
    >

    Patterns support is still in there. Deployment stuff is there also, but at this point in time we recommend people choose to do deployment in Together or in JBuilder, not mixing. An area for us to improve on going forward.

    > The contract between Together and JBuilder is the code. So how will we ensure that we have common standards/code formatting set up for generated code. I forsee code being generated from the model in together and I want this to be able to have the same set of standards and format I work with in JBuilder. Will I be able to do this?
    >

    Eventually yes !

    >  
    > What are the upgrade options from JB8? And cost?
    >
    Upgrade pricing is available, and we can also offer software assurance (to provide all upgrades for a fixed annual cost). It's best that you contact your local Borland office to discuss pricing, as terms and conditions can vary depending upon your location.

    > This is what Together did really well when Borland bought it. Is Borland's intention to lose the Together IDE side of things and use the JBuilder IDE face?
    >
    The intention is to provide a level of integration that is simialr to what we have with JB / Optimizeit - ie single "cockpit" for developer to work in.

    > Indeed Optimize is built into JB9, just after we've bought JB8 and separate OptimizeIt licenses :)
    >
    Sorry :-)

    > It doesn't seem that long ago that JB8 was released and now JB9 is out. Having seen developers get trained specifcally in JB8 and seen significant spend on JBuilder 8 upgrades, I'm concerned, particularly with the imminent Together integration that I'm going to be ever forking out for upgrades.
    >
    > Do you have a roadmap for Together integration and product releases and contents?
    >

    Historically JBuilder has ran on pretty much 6 monthly release cycles. We don't usually expect users to take every version. In addition we do now offer software assurance schemes which ensures that you are entitled to the next releases for a fixed annual subscription which can help with budgets.

    Sorry, but I can't give out roadmap information in a public discussion forum. We are very wary of publically promising something, and then not being able to deliver because of changes in market, release schedules, etc etc. If you have a relationship with your local Borland office they may be able to share more with you.

    > Thanks for the reply Jon, it's good to know that Borland is listening.
    >
    > Aaron

    No problem - thanks for your support in using Borland products. We are very excited about what we will be able to deliver going forward.

    Regards, Jon.

    Jon Harrison,
    Borland EMEA Product Line Manager - Java Products.