What does everyone think about these frameworks?

The both sort of following the idea of MVC. Struts seems to really on jsp and tag libs for presentation, where Turbine as more of a template type system?

Which one have you used? Do you find one better than the other? Give as much detail as you can (or want)

As for me, I haven't used either in "real world" type apps. That is why I am starting this discussing to find out more and hopefully educate others as well.

Have a butchers at Programming Jakarta Struts - O'Reilly - it has an excelent section where it discusses Struts alterbnatives includnig Turbine. It covers many others and gives the pros and cons