Discussions

News: Sun Updates Tools, and Creates Multivendor Java Universe

  1. Industry executives this week shed light on Sun Microsystems' plans to lure more developers to Java. Sun will explain more about the effort at JavaOne.

    Sun ONE Studio will have new support for JavaServer Faces, and a new portlet builder aims to make portlet development easy.

    "Sun's updates to its Sun ONE Studio tools are necessary to support its Project Orion, which unifies Sun Java middleware with the Sun Solaris operating system, Maselli said. "If they're going to distribute Orion, which unifies this stuff, the tools need to be unified [across the products] as well," he said.

    Also at JavaOne, Sun is expected to unveil Java Universe, a unified Java development site with content from various Java vendors, said a Cambridge, Mass.-based Web services tools vendor, who requested anonymity. Code-named Project Montague, Java Universe represents "Sun's effort to create a Sun-independent Java community for developers," said the vendor. A number of vendors, including BEA and IBM, are slated to sponsor content for the site."

    Check out more about Sun's plans
  2. <maselli>The bottom line is that Microsoft currently is easier to use because VisualBasic is simpler than C# or Java</maselli>

    VB.Net confuses the crap out of everybody and how is that easier compared to java or C#? Man stop talking out of your a**
  3. <Balaji Kithiganahalli>VB.Net confuses the crap out of everybody and how is that easier compared to java or C#?</Balaji Kithiganahalli>

    I don't think the biggest issue with java is the language/API, it's the tools. VS.NET is head and shoulders ahead of any IDE (yes, including Eclipse, IntelliJ...) in terms of developer productivity. The java IDEs are getting better, but why has it taken so long to get a decent set of tools together?
  4. Yes I agree. However I think Java IDEs have a come a long way. I'm currently playing with JBuilder8 integrated with weblogic7. IMHO this combination has been very stable and I've been very productive (although its a rather pricy combination compared with the .NET equivalent - i.e VS .NET and the runtime .NET. I already have WinXP so I'm not factoring that into the cost). In the past I used Sun ONE Studio 4. It has a good feature set but its rather slow and its modules (especially the EJB one) are buggy. For the price it is (I think about $2000) you don't really expect your IDE to throw NullPointerExceptions at you :-).

    IMHO Unless its Netbeans "base" is replaced, rewritten or whatever I don't really see how the SunONE Studio offering can be improved. We'll just have to wait and see. I hope I'm proven wrong... and there is a marked improvement in all the Java IDEs so we can have some real cometition between them and also VS .NET. If so things shall get very interesting indeed. :-)

    Cheers

    Smythe
  5. In terms of GUI editing and automatically generating boilerplate code, I agree that VS.NET is ahead of most Java IDEs. However, in terms of code editing, flexibility, and integrating with command line tools, Java IDEs are very far ahead. I hope that in the quest to get better GUI editing that Java IDEs don't lose their strengths.
  6. Craig, I just don't agree.

    I've been using VS for a few months now on Win2K. I haven't found it to be anywhere near as complete as IntelliJ.

    Con's
    1) It's not nearly as configurable as I'd like.
    2) refactoring
    3) code-completion, other stuff is buggy and isn't very configurable.
    4) The whole thing crashes on me about every three seconds. It randomly tells me that the file I've been working on is now read only because it was checked into source control..HUH? Then I have to close and reopen, and it's fine. Also, quite often when I make configuration changes, the thing just crashes on me.


    Pro's
    1) Getting hooked up to IIS was awesome. Didn't actually have to DO ANYTHING. It just setup the virtual dirs and everything. That's a hell of a lot better than most J2EE app servers where you've got to figure out the Main class, vm params, program params, whatever.
    2) GUI development, as mentioned earlier is nice.
    3) Pretty intuitive to use. Don't have to hunt for things. IntelliJ is the only IDE I find really intuitive (more so than eclipse, even though eclipse has most of the same features).

    Jason McKerr
    Northwest Alliance for Computational Science and Engineering
  7. Con's

    > 1) It's not nearly as configurable as I'd like.
    > 2) refactoring
    > 3) code-completion, other stuff is buggy and isn't very configurable.
    > 4) The whole thing crashes on me about every three seconds.

    The thing with the Java IDE's that I use regularly, (IntelliJ and Eclipse) is that they are far superior to VS when it comes down to pure grunt coding and 'code-flipping'.

    Refactoring is, in itself, a huge part of this, and no doubt refactoring wil rear it's head for C# (quite how they'd do it for VB.NET I don't know - but then again I'm not a VBer)

    Just because VS gives us a nice gui builder is, in many cases, irrelevant. If you're doing server side (not WebForms), what do you need a GUI designer for?

    If I need UML I use eclipse and the Omondo plugin also if I need Ruby, perl,PHP or python development, eclipse is there as well.

    I'll admit I have not seen the VS 2003, but I doubt whether it will help that much at the coding level, alright you have a lot of wizards, and they do help, but what you really need is an IDE that will really integrate into your development - for me, intelij IDEA and eclipse do that.

    Calum.
  8. Calum,

    On the GUI thing I was sort of reaching. I was trying to be objective. I don't do much GUI development anyway, but I don't want to limit the discussion just because I don't use one aspect of the program.

    I still love IDEA the best. yeah...

    Jason McKerr
    Northwest Alliance for Computational Science and Engineering
  9. I definitely understand the frustration of moving from InteliJ to VS.Net. However, for those of you who are not aware, JetBrains has created a new product called resharper (http://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/index.html) which bridges the gap very well.

    It is still in Beta, but I have been using it for months and find it very useful. It makes you feel like you are working in InteliJ when using VS.Net. It doesn't have all the features as InteliJ, but it does have most of the important ones (several refactorings, navigation, find usages, live templates and more).

    Leslie