Oracle's Data Binding JSR accepted amid protests from BEA & IBM

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News: Oracle's Data Binding JSR accepted amid protests from BEA & IBM

  1. Oracle 3 weeks ago submitted a new JSR called "A Standard Data Binding & Data Access Facility for J2EE", which would standardize the interactions between typical UI components and values and methods available in your business logic. Everyone voted to continue development of the JSR - except for IBM and BEA, who feel the scope of the proposal is too broad.

    JSR 227 page, and announcement thread on TSS.

    BEA's, Oracle's, and IBM's JSR Vote Comments (from JSR #227 Review Ballot page):

    On 2003-06-30 IBM voted No with the following comment:
    This JSR contains some interesting ideas. However, we are concerned about the breadth of scope and the lack of clarity regarding important aspects of this JSR. In particular, we think this JSR is too broad in scope, including elements of business services, data access, and user interface bindings. The proposed specification would combine these aspects, creating undesirable coupling between the design of data controls for business services and the needs of user interface presentation. This work should be divided into two separate activities, one to define business services and data controls for these services, and one to define declarative user interface bindings. This would result in improved focus and would lead to specifications that better address the needs of these distinct areas. In addition to this major issue, we have concerns over the lack of detail about the data controls proposed by this JSR, certain aspects of the declarative bindings, and the relationship to JSRs 114 and 127. We are sending an email to the SE/EE EC detailing these concerns.

    On 2003-06-30 BEA Systems voted No with the following comment:
    BEA also has significant concerns about the scope and factoring of JSR 227 and is thus voting "No". Specifically, we believe the functionality embodied in Data Controls should be in a separate JSR from the Declarative Bindings specification because Data Controls would be generally usable outside the stated data binding use cases. Thus, coupling these concepts together in a JSR is not desirable. Also, as the proposed Data Controls architecture is a normalization layer for a variety of data source types and service types, we believe this is a sufficiently complex topic that warrants an independent JSR.

    On 2003-06-30 Oracle voted Yes with the following comment:
    Oracle understands IBM's issues, but believes there might be a misunderstanding as to the details of this JSR. The scope of this JSR is actually fairly small and limited to the interfaces and formats required to be able to take any binding and have it be portable to any standard server. The minimum requirement for this functionality is the Declarative Binding and Data Control. They each exist for each other. The scope of this JSR will only cover the interfaces to these objects and not specific implementations. That would be vendor-specific. Oracle would be happy to clarify any unclear points in this proposal as we have with many of the other EC members.

    Threaded Messages (14)

  2. How can you not love Larry[ Go to top ]

    Oh my Gawd.... Sorry, but I have to include this quote that I just found over the wire. This is Larry Ellison responding to misguided reports that ORACLE plans on buying PeopleSoft then throwing away the product:

    "...I said in writing that we would not actively market PeopleSoft applications to new customers, but I didn't say we were going to kill anything," according to Ellison "These were scare statements coming out of PeopleSoft. "I think at one point Craigie (PeopleSoft CEO Craig Conway) thought I was going to shoot his dog. I love animals. If Craigie and the dog were standing next to each other and if I have a gun with one bullet, it wouldn't be for the dog...."

    Hahahahahahah... Oh, I just split a gut... Now to me, *that's* a CEO with cajones, baby!!! Keep the quotes comin' Larry, you make life interesting!
  3. Could never understand what this JSR is all about. Care to comment on it?

    Reema.
  4. BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    BC4J is a very good framwork, just as Struts. I have questions about how to use them together. BC4J is model, Struts is controller and JSP is view. I have seen good articles about using JSP with BC4J. But I have never seen any good article talking about how to use BC4J and Struts together in detailed steps. Could any Oracle brothers/sisters give me some help? I want to create project similar to "Pet Store" example.
  5. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    There are several samples of how to integrate the Struts Framework with the BC4J framework from Oracle9i JDeveloper.
    http://otn.oracle.com specifically:
    http://otn.oracle.com/sample_code/products/jdev/bc4jtoystore/readme.html
    and
    http://otn.oracle.com/sample_code/tutorials/bc4jvsm/content.html
  6. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    Hi, brother:

    I have seen these two examples already. I want the steps to create "Toy Store" example. I know bc4j very well already and even write some articles about it. One of them is about "Oracle9i Jdeveloper 9.0.5". What I need right now is the process to finish the project similar to "Toy Store" using Jdeveloper.

    Thanks anyway.
  7. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    Did the Whitepaper on developing the Toy Store not provide enough details?

    http://otn.oracle.com/sample_code/products/jdev/bc4jtoystore/readme.html
  8. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    That is the difference between us. I'm not sure if you are from Oracle. But you suppose us to know it well from that article. But I could not. Maybe I'm too stupid. I have several questions to ask you:

    1. The strusture of "Toy Store" application is very good. How could I make my project similar to that one? In that article the author just tell us if we use wizard "Struts-Based Jsp for Business Component", then Jdeveloper will create all the necessary files automatically. But jsp pages will in the same jpr as controller. That is not what I want. I want them in separated jpr, just as "Toy Store".

    2. For the security reason, I need to put all jsp files into web-info/jsp directory. But when I do that. There is a error pop out: Struts Action Node Error: could not find node...So What's wrong with it?

    3. If we use wizard "Struts" to create controller first, what files do we need to create compared to use wizard "Struts-Based Jsp for Business Component".

    4. Just as a lot of tutorials, that article told us a lot for each part of the "Toy Store". But it does not tell us the steps to make it as whole. Do you feel it in the same way?
  9. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    1. The strusture of "Toy Store" application is very good. How could I make my project similar to that one? In that article the author just tell us if we use wizard "Struts-Based Jsp for Business Component", then Jdeveloper will create all the necessary files automatically.

    In the Getting Started on Your Own BC4J/Struts Applications section of my whitepaper, I suggest a few steps to get started. I'd recommend the "Struts Starter Page" option since it allows you to specify where your JSP should go to follow whatever directory and file naming you want. By default, the wizards will create your new struts action in the same project as the JSP page. For my demo, I then took the extra step of adding the controller class to a separate controller project and removing it from the view project. This extreme level of separation is something you can decide to do or not to do. The Wizard does not presently have an option to separate those artifacts automatically, but it's trivially easy to click the (+) icon and add the source for the auto-created class to your separate controller project and the (x) button to remove it from the initial project.

    2. For the security reason, I need to put all jsp files into web-info/jsp directory. But when I do that. There is a error pop out: Struts Action Node Error: could not find node...So What's wrong with it?

    I'd suggest posting a question with steps to reproduce this in the Oracle Technology Network's JDeveloper discussion forum at http://www.oracle.com/forums/forum.jsp?forum=83 We'll try to help figure out what's up, once we have the steps to reproduce.

    3. If we use wizard "Struts" to create controller first, what files do we need to create compared to use wizard "Struts-Based Jsp for Business Component".

    When you create your first Struts Starter Page in the Struts/BC4J gallery category, it will setup the additional details for you. The whitepaper explains all the setup details as well to better understand what's getting setup for you.

    4. Just as a lot of tutorials, that article told us a lot for each part of the "Toy Store". But it does not tell us the steps to make it as whole. Do you feel it in the same way?

    The BC4J Toy Store is a fully-explained and commented sample application, but not a step-by-step tutorial. If there are particular steps that you're having trouble with, post a question on the JDeveloper OTN forum and we'll try our best to steer you in the right direction.
  10. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    Hi, Steve:

    You did a good job for "Toy Store". I posted six messages about Struts and BC4J in Oracle forum, but got 0 response. It's the reason why I talk about it here. This way is rude, but looks ... If you don't mind, please give me your e-mail address. So I can contact you directly if I have more questions. Thanks!
  11. RE: BC4J & Struts[ Go to top ]

    Have you looked at following the link ?

    http://radio.weblogs.com/0118231/
  12. JSR 227[ Go to top ]

    Hi Reema,

    In a nutshell, this JSR is intended to standardize a declarative way to bind data from a Business Service (WS, EJB, Java, JCA, JDBC, etc.) to some other entity. An obvious example of this is binding such data to a Swing component or JSP/JSF web component.

    Right now, there is no standard way to bind data from different sources into Java UIs. Most people have gone and written this layer themselves by hand, in all sorts of different ways. We have heard a lot of feedback from our customers that this is an area that they would really like to see standarized and made easier for them. JSR 227 intends to do that.

    I can get into more detail on specifics if you like. Just let me know what you are interested in.

    Ted Farrell
    Oracle Corporation
  13. JSR 227[ Go to top ]

    Thanks for the info, Ted. This sounds like a really interesting JSR.
    Steve
  14. JSR 227[ Go to top ]

    Hi Ted,

    Thanks for the info. This is precisely what I wanted to understand about JSR 227.

    Reema.
  15. JSR 227[ Go to top ]

    Hi Ted, JSR 227 sounds quite interesting. Can you throw some more light on it and give me some more details regarding it. What I have understood is that byt his we are binding the service layer to the UI layer which has traditionally been the forte of frameworks like Struts etc...Seems the way to go...Correct my understanding if i am missing something Ted.. Rgds Shashank