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News: Wakesoft Launches Architecture Platform 4.0

  1. Wakesoft Launches Architecture Platform 4.0 (13 messages)

    Wakesoft announced version 4.0 of their Architecture Platform. The platform takes a different approach to RAD. Rather than offering GUI-based code generators, Wakesoft provides a best practice J2EE-based architectural framework.

    The new release adds three components to the platform:

    - Business Service Provisioning: Wrap code as business services

    - Architecture Monitor: Monitors your app events via JMX, JMS, and SNMP (and integrates with other tools [e.g. OLAP for reporting])

    - Architecture Manager: Manage your apps, also using JMX. A console allows you to reconfigure properties and make dynamic changes without restarting the application server.

    Read about Wakesoft Architecture Platform 4.0

    Threaded Messages (13)

  2. I'm curious if anyone knows how much it costs and what are (if any) the open source alternatives?

    Michael
  3. I'm curious if anyone knows how much it costs and what are (if any) the open source alternatives?


    I've had some experience with WakeSoft in the past. At the time, they had a per CPU pricing that was several thousand per CPU. Certainly when you look at the internal cost factor, the framework made a lot of sense.

    In terms of open source, there is always Struts and others. From my experience, they are not as nearly comprehensive or provide the same amount of support, services, etc.

    I work at a professional services firm, and we have something very similar. We don't charge for it, but we do charge for our services when we implement it. I suspect that many other firms have a similar approach.

    Russ
  4. According to their web site, their architecture has nothing to do with Struts at all. We have a similar framework at my current employer and comparing it to Struts is not an appropriate comparison at all.

    >
    > In terms of open source, there is always Struts and others. From my experience, they are not as nearly comprehensive or provide the same amount of support, services, etc.
    >
    > I work at a professional services firm, and we have something very similar. We don't charge for it, but we do charge for our services when we implement it. I suspect that many other firms have a similar approach.
    >
  5. According to their web site, their architecture has nothing to do with Struts at all. We have a similar framework at my current employer and comparing it to Struts is not an appropriate comparison at all.


    Comparing a web-based application framework to Struts is not appropriate!? Why not? Bottom line is that many frameworks go above and beyond the abilities of Struts (which is merely an MVC implementation.) But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use a de facto standard as a measuring stick. For example, if your "framework" simply repeated everything Struts did, you would have a hard time trying to convince others to use it. OTOH, if you provide management support, business components, data-tier services, etc. then you have a compelling reason to use your framework.

    Again, my company also has a framework similar to Wakesoft. We have an internal white paper that describes capabilities of other frameworks (including Wakesoft) vs. our own. And, you better believe, Struts is another one of the frameworks that is included in the analysis.

    Russ
  6. Wakesoft's website isn't particularly generous in terms of details on what their "Architecture Platform" actually does. Judging from what is available there, one isn't really able do determine if they have their own web framework or not. And what do they use for persistence, their own proprietary O/R mapper, or even Entity Beans? What about transaction control? What about logging? Etc etc. Of course, one could download their whitepaper. But why do I have to give my address just for a whitepaper that probably isn't less superficial than the website?

    I'm skeptical about such websites: They seem to be targetted at managers rather than developers, which I consider the wrong approach when it comes to infrastructure software. I firmly believe that such software needs to be as open as possible, else application developers will be stuck with infrastructure that doesn't fit their need and style. Wakesoft does not even seem to compete with lightweight open source solutions, as they address a completely different kind of target audience.

    Obviously, one of my intents is to compare the Wakesoft Architecture Platform to the Spring Framework. Some goals seem to match, as Spring also supports loose coupling of application objects on all layers, be it data access objects, business services, or web controllers. But we clearly state what we offer and what we integrate with, while Wakesoft just publishes some very generic sketches. If you compare the two products and their websites, the difference in terms of openness and details could not be greater. And the Spring website is still in its infancy...

    Juergen
    Spring Framework developer
    http://www.springframework.org
  7. Juergen,

    It looks like you didn't get the details you needed on Wakesoft. Our website home page is meant to convey our position and value at a glance. Our customers are large enterprises doing J2EE and services development and our audience is managers, architects, and developers. Our home page doesn't immediately jump to the technology because we need to make sure everyone gets what they need and that we don't lose anyone (i.e. get too technical too soon) along the way.

    There are many ways to get more details on Wakesoft.

    You can attend (for free, of course) webinars that we present - some of these webinars are about our product, other webinars are from our customers about real enterprise architecture situations (and not about our product). You can register for these webinars from links on our website.

    If you want to get more technical details you can:
    1) register and download our whitepaper
    2) register and download our fully functional product (which comes with a temporary license)
    3) visit our community site from links on our web site

    I understand that you have to provide some information to register. Hopefully you'll find it worth it to register and learn more about our product.

    I definitely acknowledge that we are a software company with a product to sell - we are not open source and our product is not free. But we feel (and so do our customers) that our product has a lot of value to offer (and many cool technical features) and it is worth the investment.

    Thanks,

    Walter Hurst
    Wakesoft CTO and Founder
  8. PS Company[ Go to top ]

    Russ -

    Which company do you work for? How can I get a hold of that paper you mentioned?

    Thanks
    Kunal
  9. PS Company[ Go to top ]

    Russ -

    >
    > Which company do you work for? How can I get a hold of that paper you mentioned?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Kunal

    Kunal,

    I'm with Hitachi Consulting (www.hitachiconsulting.com.) Like many professional services firms, we have an Enterprise Java group that has been active for quite some time, and our framework was initially built based on the APM (Application Programmer's Model) that was initially released with the first J2EE spec. (Since renamed the J2EE BluePrints.)

    Unfortunately, the paper I mentioned is an internal document, and it is not really something that we tend to "give away" -- our financial model is obviously based on the fact that we provide services, so an analysis would be considered services.

    Russ
  10. Re: price.[ Go to top ]

    From their press-release:
    <quote>
    Pricing and Availability
    The Wakesoft Architecture Platform is now available on the IBM WebSphere and BEA WebLogic platforms. Pricing for the Wakesoft Architecture Platform is $35,000 per CPU and $4,995 per developer seat, which includes online training, development support and development license. For more information, contact info at wakesoft dot com.

    You are invited to attend a Wakesoft webinar about the Wakesoft Architecture Platform on July 24, 2003 at 11:30am PST/2:30 pm EST. For more information, or to register, visit the events page.
    </quote>

    Regards,
    Nikita.
    Fitech Labs.
  11. Re: price.[ Go to top ]

    --
    $35,000 per CPU and $4,995 per developer seat, which includes online training, development support and development license. For more information, contact info at wakesoft dot com.
    --

    Thanks, I missed that in the press release. $35k/CPU is pretty expensive. As another poster mentioned, realmethods going GPL is definitely going to make it difficult to shell out $35k/CPU.

    Michael
  12. Open source alternative?[ Go to top ]

    I'm curious if anyone knows how much it costs and what are (if any) the open

    >source alternatives?

    Realmethods just announced they open-sourced their framework, and do now business on a support basis. http://www.realmethods.com/
  13. Re : Open source alternative?[ Go to top ]

    Great.
    I looked into both WakaSoft and RealMethods 2 years before.
    Both implemented J2EE patterns, which are familiar to developers.
    COnsidering change Struts to use RealMethods or a combination of both now.

    Citystory
  14. There is an excellent open source alternative - it is called Expresso Framework (www.jcorporate.com).

    Why would you want to use the Wakesoft Framework when it has only about a dozen customers!!! read that again 12 (as of June anyway) (BOTTOM LINE: not as mature as open source).

    Few customers means limited real time experience - Expresso has many thousands of customers (30000+ registered users) including many Fortune 100 companies using it on every imaginable server and database and environment combination.

    Expresso also has the benefit of extending Struts and many other third party open source projects it builds on.

    Expresso and Wakesoft frameworks are both Architectural frameworks which is a type of web application development framework. A superset of presentation frameworks if you like (i.e. Struts). For more on understanding these frameworks please visit *** mvc2frameworks.org. ***

    You'll find a spreadsheet for comparing mvcII based frameworks.

    I believe you will find that frameworks are one area in which the open source projects lead ahead of its commercial counterparts. Hence why several commercial framework companies in this space are struggling or going out of business. Both Expresso and Turbine have been around since 1999 and have refactored and learned from years of production experience times the factorial of the size of their large communities. A commercial product cannot replicate the size of the community nor have they been around as long.

    Sorry to rain on the parade.

    Sandra