BEA Releases WebLogic 8.1 Platform

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News: BEA Releases WebLogic 8.1 Platform

  1. BEA Releases WebLogic 8.1 Platform (79 messages)

    BEA has made all of the products in the WebLogic 8.1 line, generally available (GA). Remember, WebLogic Server 8.1 has been GA since March 30th, but now all of the products are out there: Integration 8.1, Portal 8.1 and Workshop 8.1. "BEA WebLogic Platform 8.1" is the suite that includes the entire stack.

    "The WebLogic 8.1 products mark the first time BEA is merging application development and integration in one platform. The company is betting on this strategy to help differentiate itself as an application infrastructure provider, now that its traditional business--the application server market--has become one component of a larger stack of application infrastructure."

    BEA Releases Remaining WebLogic 8.1 Software

    dev2dev article on the new 8.1 platform

    BEA WebLogic Platform Info

    Threaded Messages (79)

  2. I think I'm going to be sick. What a JOKE that is going to CHOKE our opportunities to develop and deploy useful software applications.

    Don't those bumsticks realize there is an EXTREMELY high elasticity of demand for their product?!

    This continued ignorance should fuel JBoss' efforts mightily.

    John C. Dale
    Weblogic Technology Proponent, Weblogic Pricing Opponent.
  3. Good idea[ Go to top ]

    I think that this is a good idea from BEA. One of the things that Portal claim to do is integrate applications, but they all do a poor job of it. A Portal/Integration suite is a good idea.
  4. Portal Palooza[ Go to top ]

    Of course at Sybase we have been plugging the Enterprise Portal for years. We have a mature stable product with world class integration. Now if only our marketing guys could get that out! ;)

    Justin List
    Systems Consultant
    Sybase
  5. Previous mechanics of getting a version to develop on were painful. On the other hand, JBoss was easy to get. Lesson learned.

    Let's hope for continued success of all J2EE participants, and continued evolution of the platform. Every time I have to reboot a hung Microsoft system, I am thankful that those greedy souls in Redmond have not made the inroads into the enterprise market that they would like to have made. A long while ago I was an MVS system programmer in a very large shop - so I know what it takes to succeed in that environment. M$ is demonstrably clueless - every hang and reboot reinforces that to me.

    Provide us with a quality product, cheap, easy access for development, and good strong support and BEA will continue to play a significant role in the J2EE market, as it should. Delivering that combination is difficult. Success in doing so earns a premium in a market where dependability is demanded.

    That being said, I now lower my visor and raise the shields...
  6. websphere / weblogic[ Go to top ]

    I'm just a student from the Netherlands learning and developing multi-tier applications, which technologies as EJB's, struts, servlets, XML, Javabeans, etc. We have developed some larger scale applications for the harbor in Rotterdam.

    We use as less automated developing tools, which will use generated code behind the scene for learning issues. So we used jboss and wrote all code by hand (jbuilder).

    I never used WebLogic, but after reading some of the documents on there dev2dev site, it is becoming more and more interesting to me. The tools on the platform will make it a lot easier to develop some larger scale applications.

    But can anyone explain me in plain english, why you should use weblogic over websphere ???

    Any ideas on what is a absolutely must to learn as a next step ?
  7. Hi,

    I'm looking for the costing model concerning the Weblogic 8.1 application. Does anyone have an estimation or this kind of information ?

    Thanks for your help,

    Miguel
  8. Where's Linux?[ Go to top ]

    Just tried to download the current platrform release. Linux is not on list. Has BEA dropped Linux as tier 1 OS? Of course HP and Solaris are on the list.
     
    Seems a little fishy.

    Frank Bolander
  9. WebLogic on Linux[ Go to top ]

    I'm not quite sure I follow the earlier observations, but I can confirm that Linux is most definitely a tier 1 environment for WebLogic, even if it looked like a tier 1-and-a-bit earlier today.

    There are some very big names using it now (and that's before important Linux supporting features like NPTL have gone mainstream).
  10. Where's Linux?[ Go to top ]

    Just tried to download the current platrform release. Linux is not on list. Has BEA dropped Linux as tier 1 OS? Of course HP and Solaris are on the list.

    >
    > Seems a little fishy.
    >
    > Frank Bolander

    IMO BEA is a company with limited Linux experience and support.
  11. Support for Linux[ Go to top ]

    Spoke with rep - BEA does not support Linux as tier 1 OS. Linux version will lag about 6 weeks...
  12. Linux is a Tier 1 OS for BEA[ Go to top ]

    If you look to the release of WebLogic Server 8.1, the underpinnings of Platform 8.1, RedHat was one of the first OSes supported. BEA now supports RedHat, SuSE, and United Linux for WLS. I suspect they slipped the release of Linux for Platform for testing reasons and in the interest of getting Platform out on time.

    Since Platform is built on WLS it is a simple assumption that any currently supported OS should simply require additional testing before being supported.

    Additionally, anyone with half a brain can look at what BEA has done with JRockit to know they are committed to Intel and Linux. If you have any questions, download JRockit for Linux IA-32 or IA-64 and watch how this Intel/Linux optimized JVM smokes IBM's JIT and Sun's Hotspot.
  13. Linux is a Tier 1 OS for BEA[ Go to top ]

    Additionally, anyone with half a brain can look at what BEA has done with JRockit to know they are committed to Intel and Linux. If you have any questions, download JRockit for Linux IA-32 or IA-64 and watch how this Intel/Linux optimized JVM smokes IBM's JIT and Sun's Hotspot.


    Downloaded it, does not work on SuSE 8.2 (European market leader).
  14. Read the docs.....[ Go to top ]

    JRockit was tested with kernel 2.4.19, glibc 2.2.5. I'd suggest checking out the dev2dev site, messagebaords etc to see if anyone has run into the same issue.
  15. Responding to a few of your questions[ Go to top ]

    I work for BEA and thought that I'd jump in and answer a few of your questions. My day to day focus is on WebLogic Server and JRockit, but I'll do my best to cover the rest of the platform.

    What is in WebLogic Platform 8.1?

    The Platform product is the combination of the application server (WebLogic Server), Portal (WebLogic Portal), Integration Solution, which includes EAI, Adapters, BMP and a B2Bi framework (WebLogic Integration) and our application framework and development environment (WebLogic Workshop). There is a huge amount of functionality in this package. The pieces are available as a single product, or individually, depending on your project needs.

    Standards vs. Proprietary

    BEA continues to be 100% committed to the Java, Web services and other open standards. In this release we support J2EE 1.3, as J2EE 1.4 is not yet released. When it is, we will support it.

    The Platform includes Portal and Integration. While there are many standards in process in these areas, they are not yet at the point where a 100% standards based platform could be accomplished. In those areas that are not yet standardized we offer our own, value add functionality. If you want to maintain 100% portability you can code this infrastructure by hand. If you prefer the productivity gain of using our out-of-the-box infrastructure, it is available to you. The choice is yours to make.

    For J2EE development, make sure to check out CMP development with EJBGen, which is in Workshop. We think we have really solved the complexity and performance issues that people typically associate with EJB. The technologies have matured considerably, so check it out if you haven't seen them.

    Price Changes

    I have been at BEA for 4 years now and we are charging the same per CPU for the application server as the day I got here. The price has not increased. Interestingly, since 4 years ago CPUs and the software have gotten MUCH faster, so in some ways the price has gone down.

    While Platform carries a much larger price tag, it includes a lot of functionality. When compared to the pricing for typical integration and portal products, it is very competitively priced.

    Linux

    Linux is a tier 1 platform for BEA. Unfortunately it didn't make this delivery, but it will be out soon. I wouldn't read too much into this. As someone pointed out, our efforts with JRockit, which only runs on Linux and Windows on Intel 32 and 64 bit platforms, allows us to do many deep optimizations. We are showing great benchmark numbers today and the product team tells me that the best is yet to come. IA-64 is where JRockit will see further separation.

    Stability

    WebLogic Server 8.1 is very, very solid. As Tyler pointed out, we synchronized the product versions to get to the single platform. But for WLS, the perceived jump from 7.0 to 8.1 is larger than it should be. The #1 objective of WebLogic Server 8.1 was stability. We did the most exhaustive beta in BEA history and are confident that the stability is there. We have a number of very large deployments in production on WLS 8.1 today.

    WebLogic Server 8.1 is blazing fast. Check out www.spec.org and keep an eye on the SPECjAppServer2002 numbers.

    The key thing to keep in mind with WebLogic Platform is that it pulls all of these infrastructure services into a single end to end software platform. Beyond a single runtime, WebLogic Workshop gives a single development view across all of these applicaiton services. All of this is wrapped up with a single install, security model, management, documentation, etc. For people building applicaitons that need these features, it dramatically reduced the time to value from development to deployment.

    Sorry for the long winded note. Fire away!

    Eric
  16. Below are the supported platforms for WebLogic Server 8.1. We shipped WebLogic Server (the application server) a few months ago, so the list of certs is getting there. We will continue to add to it over time.

    Hewlett-Packard HP/9000 with HP-UX 11.0 and 11i

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS 2.1 and ES 2.1 for IA-32
    Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS 2.1 for IA-32

    SuSE Linux (SLES 8) for IA-32

    Sun Microsystems SPARC with Solaris 8
    Sun Microsystems SPARC with Solaris 9

    [to the prior question, you can run WebLogic Server on 64-bit Solaris]

    Windows 2000 Server, Windows 2000 Advanced Server, and Windows 2000 DataCenter for IA-32
    Windows 2000 Professional for IA-32
    Windows XP for IA-32

    WebLogic Platform, which just shipped this week, is certified on the following platforms;

    HP-UX
    Microsoft Windows
    Sun Solaris 8 and 9

    We will be rolling out more certs as soon as they are ready.

    Eric
  17. you can run WebLogic Server on 64-bit Solaris

    Do you mean 64 bit VM is supporeted? (To use Heap sizes greater than 4GB).
  18. No, to my knowledge we don't support their 64-bit JVM. Our certs are prioritized by customer demand. Let me know what you are seeing in this space if you think it should be bumped up.

    Eric
    estahl@bea.com
  19. Just wondering if BEA still doesn't support 64-bit JVMs on Solaris 8. I have 2 third party shared library calls (.so) that I need to make that require 64-bit JVMs in order for the module loader to work. Weblogic while running applications, crashes the 64-bit VM (1.4.1/1.4.2/1.5.0) and I can't find anywhere on the BEA support site where a version is certified under a Sparc 64 JVM. I'm investigating the feasibility of running under JBoss now.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks! Balaine

    bwightman@purisma.com
  20. Well, $90,000/cpu for the WLP 8.1 certainly brings BEA to a different level.

    We'll see what the reaction will be,
    Nikita.
    Fitech Labs.
  21. JMS 1.1?[ Go to top ]

    Does Weblogic Server 8.1 implement JMS 1.1?
  22. nope[ Go to top ]

    Does Weblogic Server 8.1 implement JMS 1.1?


    WLS 8.1 is (still) J2EE 1.3
  23. nope[ Go to top ]

    Actually it's J2EE 1.3+ but far short of 1.4
  24. No answer to my "Where is Weblogic 8.1 Solaris 64 bit version" was not answered.

    Therefore, Weblogic does not have a Solaris 64 bit version; this is weird for a company that is focused primarily on application server technology.

    Tyler, is it because of lack of demand for Solaris?
  25. WL 8.1 does support JMS 1.1[ Go to top ]

    One of those J2EE 1.3+ features in WebLogic 8.1 is support for JMS 1.1.

    See http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs81/jms/intro.html#1051078
  26. WL 8.1 does support JMS 1.1[ Go to top ]

    Kudos to BEA for supporting JMS 1.1 !

    Yay!
  27. JMS 1.1?[ Go to top ]

    JMS 1.1 capability has been in WebLogic since 7.0. In fact, we think we were the first out with JMS 1.1, but, because of standard J2EE license restrictions, we could not (and still can not) provide Sun certified support for it. Here is the information straight from the WebLogic documentation:
       
    http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs81/jms/intro.html#1051078

    <snip>
    Note: As of the release date for WebLogic Server 8.1, Sun Microsystems has not certified any JMS implementation as being compliant with the version 1.1 JMS Specification. To use the WebLogic JMS implementation of the version 1.1 JMS Specification, use the link provided above to download the version 1.1 API documentation, jar, and source files.
    </snip>

    Tom Barnes, BEA
  28. I am hoping having one platform will make life a lot easier for us when we do the planned upgarde in January. Currently we run WLP 4.0 and WLI 2.1 on top of WLS 6.1 and getting all the service packs to work with each other was a real nightmare.
  29. Where is the Solaris 64 bit version?
  30. Monster[ Go to top ]

    This is really sad because I was one of WebLogic/Tangha's biggest fans but since 6.0, BEA has been a total disappointment:
    1. The price keeps on increasing
    2. The quality is *very* much below average
    3. Everything has become proprietary

    What was an elegant, standard-based and developer-friendly implementation of J2EE has become a MONSTER.

    Very sad.

    V.
  31. Monster[ Go to top ]

    The price shouldn’t be a surprise since it’s been that way for nearly two years for portal and their platform suite and hasn’t changed. The platform definitely has a proprietary feel implementing portal but you can get a robust platform to work from within. I’m not sure if many corporations have been successful with the integration product, something that is being pushed hard. You have to look real close with Linux support as I believe they will only support very specific versions (eg. Red Hat Advanced Server).

    IBM is just as proprietary with endless supply of semi-integrated solutions so I’m not sure exactly why everybody talks about open standards anymore. It’s more like I kinda comply with open constantly changing specs of the month. I think you can piece together an open source stack of technologies side by side against the BEA platform and hope for the best or just buy the whole thing with one place to call for support.

    Know what you need first and then decide if your going to use it all, a lot of people like the technology buffet in a box approach because you don’t have to think about “how-to” make it all work together. I like the new BEA products but it’s a life time commitment to the suite, I suppose just like .NET..
  32. WebLogic Integration[ Go to top ]

    <q>I&#8217;m not sure if many corporations have been successful with the integration product, something that is being pushed hard<\q>

    The previous versions sucked deeply, but the 8.1 seems to have got it. For this kind of stuff, the Workshop is, well, tasty. Have to download the GA and see if there are any changes from the beta..

    BTW, I think the version numbering is hilarious; from 7.0 to 8.1. Wow.. They're trying to make you think this is a stable .1 release :)

    //ras
  33. Motivation Behind Versioning[ Go to top ]

    Actually, having participated in the versioning discussion, the motivation to use 8.1 was driven by uniformity of our products, rather than a concern of public perception.

    In January of this year, Tuxedo 8.0 was released with an impending move to 8.1. To indicate the consistency of the technology and to give customers an indication of "what works best" together, it was decided that all of the software that is tightly integrated together, should have a common numbering scheme. We fell back on the lowest number available 8.1, due to its usage in Tuxedo. We subsequently versioned everything that is part of this platform as 8.1: WLP, WLS, WLI and the impending LiquidData 8.1 release (which really should be 2.0).

    Also, WebLogic Server pricing has not gone up. It has remained constant. The pricing that you are seeing involves the combination of Portal, Integration and Application Server. And, when comparing to all of the other companies that offer this combination, we are incredibly competitive, if not the outright cheapest.

    I really do recommend that the community download the platform and spend 90 minutes with Workshop to get a feel for how apps are built with it. I'm willing to entertain technology questions on this forum.

    Tyler Jewell
    Director, BEA
  34. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    Pricing is a real problem with BEA, especially for the integration product. In Germany and Switzerland the amount of small to medium sized companies willing to pay a lot for software licenses is decreasing dramatically.
    I dont't think making money with selling licenses is the way to go. It's all about support and services now.
    Acceptance of Open Source is increasing in these countries.
  35. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    it is obvious to me that JBoss is really hurting BEA on the revenue side and that this latest increase is just a way to achieve the same revenue levels at the decreased demand.

    Since the portal effort is mostly dead in my mind (who cares?) and it seems their other only card is the integration stuff then the price tag is just killing the business and the demand may fall. The elasticity of demand is something they may be underestimating.

    JBoss should take advantage of this and strike partnerships with the integrator players like TIBCO and SeeBeyond (Webmethods is already a partner)
  36. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    Lawrence: it is obvious to me that JBoss is really hurting BEA on the revenue side and that this latest increase is just a way to achieve the same revenue levels at the decreased demand.

    ROFL! These prices are basically unchanged for years now. To most people, they were sounding mighty high a couple of years ago, and they still sound about the same.

    I am pretty certain that lower license cost products (including JBoss) are taking revenue at the low end from BEA, but in terms of revenue pressure, their biggest issue is IBM WebSphere ... IBM is a very agressive competitor. BTW - BEA, as a public company, publishes their results; to be honest, it looks like they are doing pretty well, especially considering the economy.

    Since the portal effort is mostly dead in my mind (who cares?) and it seems their other only card is the integration stuff then the price tag is just killing the business and the demand may fall. The elasticity of demand is something they may be underestimating.

    Their prices seem pretty ridiculous, but I doubt anyone pays list. If you know that companies expect a 40-80% discount, maybe bulking up the list price is a reasonable approach. (I think it's a little silly, but I've never built a company with a billion dollars in revenue per year either ... have you?)

    JBoss should take advantage of this and strike partnerships with the integrator players like TIBCO and SeeBeyond (Webmethods is already a partner)

    Do you work for Gartner or something? AFAIK, JBoss doesn't seem to "strike partnerships"; according to a couple of their partners, JBoss just sells placement on their partner page. (Pretty nice if you can do it!)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  37. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    ROFL! These prices are basically unchanged for years now. To most people, they > were sounding mighty high a couple of years ago, and they still sound about < > the same.


    But the market has changed, at least in Europe. There are a lot of low cost alternatives today.
     
    > I am pretty certain that lower license cost products (including JBoss) are
    > taking revenue at the low end from BEA

    Regarding to a BEA official this is OK for them: 'Better start with using JBoss than with .NET. When technical demands increase as time goes on, customers will automatically convert to one of the big vendors.'
     
    > Their prices seem pretty ridiculous, but I doubt anyone pays list. If you know > that companies expect a 40-80% discount

    I hope this is true. It's not possible at the moment to sell WebLogic Integration for the official list price in our area.
  38. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    I would also see how does the migration from WLS6.1 > WLS8.1 works .....this time.
    Iam trying to deploy the exact same .ear file(which works great in WLS6.1) BUT gives DEPLOYMENT "NoClassDefFoundError". Prior to this i also get ...Deployment descriptor "/WEB-INF/xyz-html.tld" is malformed

    why can't we have a *smooth* Mmigrations ever ?

    I would guess that's why we are business .........:)

    any ideas about this experimental "exception" ?
  39. 6.1->8.1[ Go to top ]

    we have ported a 6.1 app to 8.1 with minimal probs (some with applets and some with realms.
  40. We are benig given a bit of a run around by the BEA sales guys so maybe some the BEA guys monitoring this can confirm developer licensing.

    From dev2dev I see tha there are 3 packages that we can get. The tria version is free and last for a year, the next version up is about $800 per developer but you get support and a few other goodies with this. The last alternative is an integrated product with JBuilder but we're not interested in this.

    Is there anything to stop us using the trial version for the year and then switching over to the $800 version when the eval period is up?

    Just to confirm, this $800 includes the full platform, the BEA sales guy is talking as thuogh this just covers the server itself. I've downloaded the full platform through this option so I'm assuming that the dev2dev description is right and the sales guy wrong.
  41. Aaron,

    Another alternative is to pay $10k for their partner program and you get a slew of dev licenses for all their software (if I remember correctly) and some other little perqs including training and support. It's $10k, but for most companies, it's a pretty good deal.

    What I find works even better is to tell your salesperson that you're switching to WebSphere because of the pain of figuring out how to get all the dev licenses ... see how far that gets you ;-)

    Regarding the other comments, yes I'd have to agree that WebLogic is still top dog when it comes to J2EE technology and all of that. However, in a few ways, (including ease of integrated development with Eclipse/WSAD), WebSphere has already caught up and passed WebLogic, so I hope that puts a real fire under their tails. The good news for BEA is that 8.1 really does look good (we have customers that have been quite happy with various beta/rc/ga releases of jRockit 8.1 and/or WebLogic 8.1 for over six months now.)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  42. Hey,
       Recently came to know the FACT that, after all one of my Mainframe client invested huge amount of money and brought BEA Products such as WLS, WLS JAM etc to integrate their Mainframe application to internet. BEA doesn’t know the concept of RACF security or concept of thinking in terms security is the foundation of a business. We are talking to BEA customer support, hey any body want to know their customer support people writings????

    Email reply heading goes like this ""CORRECTION" Case# ######5 Information for you.."

    content goes like this
    ====================================================
    "CORRECTION":
    the following statement,
    > but JAM5.1 does communicate directly with RACF.

    should it be
    > but JAM5.1 does "NOT" communicate directly with RACF.
    ======================================================

    Any way this guy is a big nut and still employed by BEA. Later we brought EAsy API from Vanguard, got integrated RACF with Web application by simple API.

     My client's money which paid for BEA!!!??? That is gone with wind!!!!!.

    BEA guys want to know how to deal with RACF, go and learn how IBM developed Java SDK for OS 390 and how they may use of SAF and RACF concept into Java and updated their JAAS implementation.

    I know there are 1000s of idiots still believe and use what ever BEA putting into market, go with them as long as $$$ is cheap for you guys.
  43. If you have moved to WebLogic 8.1 and want to share your experience with other developers, the press or the analysts, send me an e-mail at estahl at bea dot com

    Thanks,

    Eric Stahl
    BEA Systems
  44. Hey,

    > Recently came to know the FACT that, after all one of my Mainframe client
    > invested huge amount of money and brought BEA Products such as WLS, WLS JAM etc
    > I know there are 1000s of idiots still believe and use what ever BEA putting
    > into market, go with them as long as $$$ is cheap for you guys.
    <snip>
    (80 more lines of the same stuff...)
    </snip>


    Yeah, unhappy ex-bea employees who are out to smear their previous employer with gossip are considered very credible - especially in this forum...
  45. TSS Feature request[ Go to top ]

    Would it be possible to auto-mark messages as noisy, by author?

    I can think of a couple of examples...

    -Nick
  46. TSS Feature request[ Go to top ]

    I agree. This would be a neat feature on have on ServerSide.
  47. Aaron:
    I don't know if you have used any .ear file while deploying ?

    we have .war file been migrated to wls8.1(from wls6.1) w/o a problem BUT when it comes down for all our .ear(s) ...there is when we get all sort of prolems ?

    any ideas if this is due to WLS8.1's new classloading schemes ?
  48. Is there anything to stop us using the trial version for the year and then switching over to the $800 version when the eval period is up?


    No, there isn't anything stopping you from using the eval edition of the subscription year over year. The $800 version of dev2dev subscriptions offers a couple key differences: "push" of all of the latest software to your doorstep on a quarterly basis and additional training / support options.

    Tyler
  49. This spring BEA announced Free Developer licenses for the entire BEA WebLogic Platform. The Platform consists of: WL Server, WL Workshop, WL Integration, WL Portal and WL JRockit. 12-Month license key supporting 5IP/15DB Connections and is in line with other vendors Software Development Kits.
    BEA launched dev2dev Subscriptions (similar to MSDN Subscriptions,IBM ToolBox, Oracle Dev Tools) to bundle support, education, SDK and other tools delivered on a qtrly basis.
    To obtain a free WebLogic Platform license
    go to http://dev2dev.bea.com/subscriptions/index.jsp (BEA will mail you the bits on CD)
    If you just want to download the WebLogic Platform and license
    go to: http://commerce.bea.com/index.jsp

    I hope this clears up the confusion regarding Free development licenses! You asked for them and we delivered!!!!
  50. To obtain a free WebLogic Platform license

    > go to http://dev2dev.bea.com/subscriptions/index.jsp (BEA will mail you the bits on CD)
    > If you just want to download the WebLogic Platform and license
    > go to: http://commerce.bea.com/index.jsp
    >

    "Users outside the United States or Canada will not be able to order BEA dev2dev Subscriptions from the dev2dev Web site."

    This just sucks.
  51. Why do American software producers always think they are the in center of the world ?
    This may be one of the reasons why there are more and more European companies
    switching to free alternatives (linux) and don't trust American spyware any longer (Windows).
  52. Lars, it doesn't mean that it's not orderable, just that it's not orderable from the Web site. dev2dev Subscriptions is definitely consumable to audiences outside of the United States and Canada. There are just technical challenges to making the ordering available online. If you really want more details, Ryan O'Hara (rohara at bea dot com) is the program manager for Subscriptions. He's a brilliant guy and can help you here. You just need to ask.

    Also, I'd argue that BEA is very friendly to our worldly neighbors. Our CEO is a native Mandarin speaker, we have as many offices in EMEA and APAC as we do in the America's and the bulk of our business is driven overseas. So, just because our corporate headquarters is in the America's doesn't mean you should necessarily draw the conclusion you did.

    Tyler
  53. Unity in diversity!!!!![ Go to top ]

    .

    Also, I'd argue that BEA is very friendly to our worldly neighbors. Our CEO is a native Mandarin speaker, we have as many offices in EMEA and APAC as we do in the America's and the bulk of our business is driven overseas. So, just because our corporate headquarters is in the America's doesn't mean you should necessarily draw the conclusion you did.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Tooo funny!!!!

    Add the following things into the diversity

    Racism, Chinese speaking capacity in Resume, then select whether you wanna hired in Denver or California, if agree come to BEA's corporate world.
  54. How can we stop irrelevant postings by TQ?[ Go to top ]

    Tooo funny!!!!

    >
    > Add the following things into the diversity
    >
    > Racism, Chinese speaking capacity in Resume, then select whether you
    > wanna hired in Denver or California, if agree come to BEA's corporate world.

    I don't know what this idiot is talking about, doesn't seem anything close to WLS 8.1 as far as I can see.
  55. Racism[ Go to top ]

    BEA is diverse in hiring and a great company to work for!! If you don't know anything about WLS8.1 go to yahoo msg boards. You will find ur look alikes.

    > Tooo funny!!!!
    >
    > Add the following things into the diversity
    >
    > Racism, Chinese speaking capacity in Resume, then select whether you
    > wanna hired in Denver or California, if agree come to BEA's corporate world.

    I don't know what this idiot is talking about, doesn't seem anything close to WLS 8.1 as far as I can see.
  56. I just wish we could filter posts according to user.

    I have yet to read a post from this guy that is in any way worth the ascii characters it uses to render it. Same ol BS every time... not an ounce of it makes sense (even if you manage to translate it from manglish)

    -Nick
  57. I have been on a couple of discussions about BEA that TQ has posted on and he hates BEA so much that I doubt he can deliver an objective opinion on then anymore. I think I remember he did some consulting for them and did not have a good time.

    I have worked with BEA/Weblogic for the last four years and although I could pick many faults with them and their consultancy they are not the worst company by far and produce a generally good product. 8.1 looks like another step in the right direction.

    On a side note I am not sure if I would work for them. I have interviewed with them twice in my career, once being recently. Each time I got offered the position and then had had a really bad experience with managers, staffing and HR. ;-)
  58. well, discussing "experience working with BEA/as a company" would not result anything here ....because anything on this topic, would result "a biased and an individualistic opinion"....TQ may be correct or incorrect ...but who cares about it when discussing about WLS8.1 !!!


    Andy: I have posted my problem in newsgroups .....let us hope to get some replies on it ...anyways ....thanks all !

    cheers,
  59. Hello, dev2dev.bea.com is the best place for technical resources. The search function at top searches all of the BEA sites, including Newsgroups, eDocs, eSupport, and www.

    You can also receive a support account and log a question to "askBEA" go to: http://support.bea.com/index.jsp

    -dh
  60. I have downloaded, installed and used the free license from the UK, no problem.
  61. To Clarify:
    If you want a free license, you can download the product and it will give you a 12 month license.
    If you want us to send you a CD of the Platform, we can.
    IF you want to purchase either the Platform or Tools Edition, just follow the link that says for "international purchases click here". Your entry will be routed and someone will call you.

    If you are outside the US, we can still ship you a CD and you are still entitled to a free license.

    any questions regarding this, please email me davidh@bea.com
  62. Of course we have had a free developer (Enterprise functionality) edition for sometime. Kudos for BEA recognising our leadership and following our lead! ;)
  63. Pricing[ Go to top ]

    Regarding to a BEA official this is OK for them: 'Better start with

    > using JBoss than with .NET. When technical demands increase as time
    > goes on, customers will automatically convert to one of the big vendors.'

    I bet this is OK with JBoss people as well ;-)

    /T
  64. Tell the rest of them[ Go to top ]

    Tyler,

    I asked this question to your sales, pres sales tech arch and presenters but they chuckled and came back with the probability that it was something to do with marketing. Your explanation sounds feasible, but it would have been good to have told your guys in the field this. Or perhaps you did, and they didn't listen. Imagine that :)
  65. Is 8.1 going to support AIX?[ Go to top ]

    We are on 6.1 sp2 and planning to go to 8.1. The only thing which is stopping us to goto 8.1 is, it doesn't support AIX. Are u going to support AIX? If so do u have any timeframe?




    Thanks a lot,
    Satish
  66. Monster[ Go to top ]

    This is really sad because I was one of WebLogic/Tangha's biggest fans but


    You probably mean Tengah? Personally I am one of Mamadonnas biggest fans...

    > since 6.0, BEA has been a total disappointment:

    Really? Personally I find 6.1 to be vastly superior to 4.5 and 5.1.

    > 1. The price keeps on increasing

    Is that proposition based on facts or is it some general feeling that you have? Maybe your memory of the prices in the past is accurate as your memory of the old product name?

    > 2. The quality is *very* much below average

    The average of what?

    > 3. Everything has become proprietary

    I dont even know what that means. 8.1 implements a current J2EE specification just like the previous versions, in addition there are proprietary extensions available. If you dont like that dont use them...
  67. Nice to use[ Go to top ]

    I'm detecting a strong anti-BEA bias in this thread so I can't help posting.

    In my experience, far from being "below average" WebLogic continues to set the standard for J2EE servers. Yes, the price is a bit over the top, so I recommend cheaper (or free) servers if that's an issue or if clients simply don't need the high-end capabilities. But the actual product is great.

    Far from being a "monster" I've found 8.1 seems to start up faster than 7 (non-scientific impression, based on comparing both servers on two machines), the hot deploy works very well, and that it's a very solid and compliant implementation of the specs. I've found it an excellent development server, even on a laptop with only 512Mb of RAM.

    While I also wish BEA would think about the pricing, I think having strong commercial products is important to J2EE.

    Note: I have no association with BEA.

    Regards,
    Rod
  68. BEA WLP 8.1[ Go to top ]

    After reading Rod’s comment (as always) and re-reading my own at the beginning as well as some other’s I decided to clarify my point.

    Despite the fact that my opinion can be viewed as biased (I worked at BEA) I truly believe that from the technical standpoint WLP 8.1 is the most sophisticated and technologically advanced J2EE-derivate on the market. Since proving this point is beyond the short message I’ll leave it as my personal opinion.

    I cannot comment on continuity of the pricing, but what’s remarkable is that for the first time in literally years BEA has brought unified and integrated solution (regardless whether or not certain product directions could seem a bit disappointing). And I totally support unified versioning as Tyler & Co. described numerous times here and there (I’ll challenge anyone to describe me in full IBM WebSphere’s versioning dependencies with their myriad of related "integrated" products).

    Another factor to a possible knee-jerk reaction is that perhaps only few people outside of BEA can appreciate the complexity, size and feature depth of WLP 8.1 product (note that I’m talking about WLP). However, the per-cpu price certainly has sort of sticker-shock feeling to it.

    I wish that BEA did a better job on "educating" what’s in WLP to offset the price-related questions. As an example, Tyler’s presentation on TSS2003 left many people (at least those I’ve exchange some comments with) that the whole WLP is all about VB-ing the J2EE development which I think is a significant misunderstanding (or underestimating).

    Just my 2 cents,
    Nikita Ivanov.
    Fitech Labs
  69. BEA WLP 8.1[ Go to top ]

    I wish that BEA did a better job on "educating" what’s in WLP to offset the price-related questions. As an example, Tyler’s presentation on TSS2003 left many people (at least those I’ve exchange some comments with) that the whole WLP is all about VB-ing the J2EE development which I think is a significant misunderstanding (or underestimating).


    Hi Nikita-

    It definitely wasn't my intention to leave that impression of WLP from my keynote at TSS. The focus of that presentation was to demonstrate the capabilities of a more robust platform that includes custom build and integration. I admit that I didn't give Portal enough lip service. But, Portal is one of our best selling technologies right now and I've found there seems to be a lot of interest in it. Portals, when properly integrated with a J2EE app server and development environment can provide a rich set of features around unified profiling, personalization, campaign management, content management abstraction, meta modeling, inter-portlet communications, etc.

    What you saw in my keynote was very much focused on Workshop and its Web development capabilities (part of the core server now). In fact, I only spoke to about 5% of what Portal is designed to do.

    I apologize about that and can answer any WLP questions here, if you have them.

    Tyler
  70. A few comments on pricing[ Go to top ]

    I would like to address a few points on pricing. BEA has introduced some new price points over the last year to map packages better into specific project needs.

    -Free Development Seats
    -WebLogic Express- $495/CPU
    -WebLogic Server Workgroup Edition- $4k/CPU

    For the full application server, the price is the same as WebSphere. Included in that is our full application server, security framework, messaging, WebLogic Workshop, etc.

    WebLogic Portal and WebLogic Integration are layered on from there if you need that functionality.

    Eric
  71. Nice to use[ Go to top ]

    Rod -

    I want to re-iterate your comments, except for Workshop. Try running WLW on your 512MB laptop and you are in for some fun :) Especially if the laptop is a P3. (I am using a P3 1.2Ghz, with 512MB).

    Regards,
    Kunal
  72. 8.1?[ Go to top ]

    What happened to 8.0?
  73. 8.1?[ Go to top ]

    BEA skipped 8.0 and started with version 8.1, probably from a marketing point of view, people don't like .0 versions and tend to wait for a .1 to get a more stable product ... Talking about business ethics ...
  74. 8.1?[ Go to top ]

    The I will look for 8.2!
  75. 8.1?[ Go to top ]

    how do i share my experience with WLS8.1 ....any developers, any ideas , any help ?
  76. 8.1?[ Go to top ]

    how do i share my experience with WLS8.1 ....any developers, any ideas ,

    > any help ?

    Have you tried the weblogic.* newsgroups?

    http://newsgroups.bea.com/cgi-bin/dnewsweb
  77. Off topic[ Go to top ]

    Hello,

    My name is Razvan Caraghin. Me and my colleagues have a disagreement on an analysis problem. I would like to know your opinions about this. I would especially like to know Cameron’s and others opinion (I am in a hurry and I won’t mention other names ;) on this problem. This post will be long, if you think you are not interested, I apologise. The solution is C++, but I am a java fan and I usually read these forums, so I decided to put it here.
    I will only expose relevants parts of the problem.
    Here we go:
    This sould be a simulation program (MFC window with OpenGL viewport – the graphics will be drawn on it using OpenGL: the maps, scenario data-mobiles, itineraries etc), in which you have a map loaded or created that represents buildings, streets, sideways, green places, railroads. In adition, you can create and assign scenarios to this map that contain data concerning cars, pietons, trains (mobiles) which have an itinerary(path) assigned to them. The requirement is that any given scenario MUST contain at least 1 mobile ( and its itinerary ? ). So it wont be saved unless it has something in it. Ofcourse, those mobiles and their itineraries will be drawn on the map. So the simulations practically “moves” around those mobiles, on those itineraries, on the map. We decided that there will be the following “interesting for our disagreement” use-cases: create scenario, edit scenario, load scenario and save scenario. I will first expose the parts we agree on.
    “Create Scenario” use case: this requires that a map already exists and it is loaded by the application ( load map, create map use-case completion ). So at the scenario creation, we assign a name to it, do other checking stuff, assign a map to it, etc.
    “Save scenario” use case: We must check if this scenario has any mobiles in it, and if not, we won’t let the user save it, otherwise save.
    Load scenario: Check if there is a map already loaded or created (completion of load / create map use cases). Load scenario, draw the mobiles, etc.
    Edit scenario: application loads the dinamic object library into a window ( the mobiles ), and the user uses those icons to drag and drop them onto the map as following: trains on the railroads ( only there ), cars on the streets, pietons on the sideways, and set itineraries to them: mobile 1 moves from point b on the map on point c(this is the itinerary for mobile 1), etc.
    You probably played games which have a part of simulation like the one I’m describing.
    Let’s get to the part me and my colleagues diagree on.
    My colleagues believe that create scenario use case MUST contain also the WHOLE functionality of the Edit scenario use case, since we have to have at least one mobile into this scenario. So if I convey correctly what they say, we will have on one hand the create scenario that WILL ALSO contain the functionality of the Edit scenario use-case, and on the other hand, we will have Edit scenario use case, which will have the functionality required to edit the scenario, which is identical to a subset of the Create scenario use-case.
    I think what they say defeats the purpose of Edit scenario use-case. I say that create scenario use case should contain ONLY the required stuff to create scenario , and then possibly to require the edit scenario use-case completion in order to complete itself-if they really want to force the user to make some scenario editation as finishing part of the creation scenario process(in any case, I think we should have create scenario without any editing functionality included to it). In any case, I woul not mix into create scenario use-case the WHOLE logic of the Edit scenario use case.
    The app requirements state that it is required that the user in order to save a scenario, must at least make same editation to it-to add at least 1 mobile onto the map.

    I would like to know your opinion about this, any response is welcome. I hope I will not get flamed too much for posting this here :).

    Thank you for yout time,
    Razvan Caraghin
  78. Off topic[ Go to top ]

    you should see how the quake maps editor or mohaa editor works.
  79. I have been using Weblogic8.1 App server for a while and really impressed with what I am seeing.
    If you had a couple of systems in production already, you can really appreciate the change made in 8.1.
    Not supporting 64 bit solaris VM is a real disappointment for me too. Hopefully we will see a SP with 64 bit VM support.
  80. Hi, guys,
      I have read the documents about the Integration server of released version of 8.1 provide by Bea, but all of them include samples just introduce test the Process in debug environment of Workshop. But how to use the Business Process in REAL application? You konw 8.1 released version not like 7.0 version which provide documents like how to use the API of worklist to write code initial a Process.
      And there alos a funy thing, they use 'workflow' in 8.1 Beta version, but 'BP' in 8.1 released version. Why?
      Hi, Can anyone give me a hand that told me, if I want the client to activate a Process like use a jsp, how to do it

    regards,
    shannon