PCMagazine reviews application servers and related tools

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News: PCMagazine reviews application servers and related tools

  1. PCMagazine has published a light but extensive review of leading application servers including Weblogic, Websphere, MS WinServer 2003, Oracle9i, JBoss, and Sun One. The review also covers caching products and scripting languages, J2EE vs. .NET, and performance comparisons. The final scorecard gives Weblogic 5 stars overall, with Websphere, MS, and Oracle tied with 4 stars.

    Read the full article (nice printer friendly view).

    The tabular summary of features can be found here:
    http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/download/0/2165/ApplicationServers_Features.pdf.

    Threaded Messages (43)

  2. Incorrect[ Go to top ]

    Don't read too much into this. I see things that are incorrect about what they state about Sun ONE Application Server. Sun ONE Application Server has fail-over and clustering. That is in the Enterprise Edition. 6.5 is available now and 7.0 will be released next month. This is just bad reporting.
  3. Go BEA![ Go to top ]

    Let me guess, now everyone is going to belly ache that their product didn't win because this review is wrong, was fixed, or is a terrorist conspiracy.

    I see a pretty clear pattern...

    Fastest SPEC benchmarks: WebLogic Server
    Fastest SPEC JVM benchmarks: JRockit
    Lowest Price/Performance: WebLogic Server
    Winner of PC Mag App Server Review: WebLogic Server

    Bring on your conspiracy theories JBoss zealots. Although it is getting very, VERY predictable and tiresome.

    Congrats Cedric and the rest of the BEA team!

    Harvey
  4. Go BEA![ Go to top ]

    Great point - you can't be wrongly-right so often.

    Let me just add the recent Java Pro and Java World awards won by WebLogic. This is all, of course, pure marketing. However, I do believe that these major publications do want to keep their reputation clean and straight. (Sorry, as a consultant I have to keep track of those in case my clients ask :-)

    WebLogic 8.1 rocks, especially with this Workshop tool. Makes this stuff so simple and fast to develop that I am concerned my chargeable hours will decrease (damn).

    My 0.02

    G.
  5. Great point - you can't be wrongly-right so often.

    >
    > Let me just add the recent Java Pro and Java World awards won by WebLogic. This is all, of course, pure marketing. However, I do believe that these major publications do want to keep their reputation clean and straight. (Sorry, as a consultant I have to keep track of those in case my clients ask :-)

    Be honest with your self here. After JBoss won the best app server award in 2002, BEA definitely went to JavaWorld and gave them a ton of advertising dollars and said, please do not let this happen again. Then look at the following, how much does BEA spend on advertising and how much JBoss spends on advertising? Advertisers are scared of open source as it could kill them, as they will not get as much advertising budget from the big boys. IBM will also spend the money, but everyone knows it is not the best product on the market.
    >
    > WebLogic 8.1 rocks, especially with this Workshop tool. Makes this stuff so simple and fast to develop that I am concerned my chargeable hours will decrease (damn).

    I have heard it is a very GOOD PROPRIETARY TOOL THAT WILL LOCK YOU INTO BEA FOREVER, CEDRIC HIMSELF SAID THIS AT THE TSS, he said something like, I would not recommend changing from weblogic if you are using workshop, it is not pretty.
    >
    Keep wasting your money everyone, remember you can get a benchmark to say anything you want it to.
    > My 0.02
    >
    > G.
  6. Harvey;

    As a commited JBoss zealot, I am never upset with benchmarks that show commercial app servers running faster than JBoss, although many do not......

    Setting aside the fact that design considerations in JBoss applications can provide a substantial performance improvement, the real world is not as friendly.

    Let's assume that any given operation will run faster on WebLogic than JBoss for a semantically identical application. So I am feeling great about that. Why not ? I got WebLogic for free, or nearly so, so I could do my initial development. So now I am ready to bust out into the real world and actually deploy (an event that plays not in the benchmark world....).

    $17K per app server, plus a smaller shitload for support. Well, I could cluster too, but... that 17K is weighing heavily on my wallet. So I'll putz around trying to figure out how to not buy those extra licenses. Maybe I will have a bunch of web servers, but only one app server. Sounds good. Not great, but I;m saving money, except now I have an extra hop in the equation. Ahhh... but.... I have a kick ass idea to buy these new 4 CPU servers so I am OK right ?

    Damn. Multiply the cost by 4. Now I am a little uncomfortable, biut everyone says WebLogic is worth it, and I am still satisfying the most important crieteria of all, which is that my CIO feels good telling his cocktail party peers that he is using WebLogic.

    Oh... and I need a server in each region too.... so multiply the cost by 10. And uh.... I need backup servers for disaster recovery.... so double the cost again.

    And now some other projects want in on the action too. If we have WebLogic, so should they. Stands to reason. Multiply the cost by......

    Fast forward, and I have spent a couple of hundred thousand dollars for an app server which will run my code. I could run the same code on JBoss, for which there is no license cost at all. Some people say it will not, but I secrectly tested it without telling anyone, and it works fine.

    But I am still happy, because on average, my transactions run 3 ms. faster than on the same number of JBoss servers !!

    I will ignore the fact that I could have implemented as many app servers as I wanted to and round-robined to spread the load across multiple sevrers beacause with WebLogic it would quadruple my cost. I suppose, in point of fact, if absolute speed were my only consideration, I would ditch J2EE and use Prevayler. And if I was using Prevayler, would I really need WebLogic.....?

    No, I am cool with all of that. I will not bellyache, as long as someone else is spending the cash. As for me, I do not believe that our apps will run faster on WebLogic. And in the end, it is irrelevant. If it runs acceptably well on JBoss, why would I waste the money on WebLogic ?

    I do not apologize for being a zealot, or for being predictable. If I have been tiresome, then I am a little bit sorry.

    Cheers.

    //Nicholas
  7. Excellent response.

    Diminishing return on quality for the investment dollars in the extra drops of single-node performance. Think about how much hardware you could buy for the price of those extra BEA licenses.

    Yeah, Go BEA. That central burning greed continues to make you more and more hollow by burning out your insides.

    Best,

    John C. Dale
  8. PCMag report[ Go to top ]

    <>Notice Pramati website and ask the question why there is not a single customer success story there. This may be the reason why they are not included in any benchmarks</>

    I think it is true that companies should build business credibility by establishing a strong customer base in the markets they claim to be representing. The business credibility has to do with a decent product quality, ability to sustain and serve the customers globally for periods long enough (like BEA,IBM,Oracle),customer loyality so on and with these in place BRANDS get established.

    If a high-tech company doesnt get included in a serious *REPORT* such as the one by PCMag,then you have ask above questions to yourself and choose your product!

    Goodluck
    AB
  9. Quote
    [I think it is true that companies should build business credibility by establishing a strong customer base in the markets they claim to be representing. The business credibility has to do with a decent product quality, ability to sustain and serve the customers globally for periods long enough (like BEA,IBM,Oracle),customer loyality so on and with these in place BRANDS get established. If a high-tech company doesnt get included in a serious *REPORT* such as the one by PCMag,then you have ask above questions to yourself and choose your product!]
    Quote


    First of all PCMag ???????? Does anyone read this??

    And moreover AB - clearly you seem to have your business sense wrong.

    If names like ABB, Ericcson, Standard Chartered, ABN Amro, Morgan Stanley, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Paypal, ICICI (I think its a large Indian bank), the Indian Govt. and a host of others do not indicate a "strong" customer base, then what would? And everyone would agree that these customers could only be there if the product has some credibility - since all these customers are the ones your and my company would die for!! Start accepting reality rather than living in your insecure world!

    Rob
  10. You have your business sense wrong[ Go to top ]

    Just big names do not impress me! What may impress me is real customer success stories endorsed by your customers.

    Through case studies your customers need to tell me what applications they have deployed and are still running successfuly, how's the product quality (what's good and what's not) and can I call them for reference?

    Will Pay Pal, Blue Cross, ABB, Stanchart, or any other of your big name customers give a refererence?
  11. You have your business sense wrong[ Go to top ]

    Heena,

    I do not work for Pramati - so you can ask them about references. I'm sure they would have lots (i.e if you are serious!)

    But just try thinking logically through your head - the very fact that they are listed in Pramati's website would mean that they have their applications running on Pramati. Thats an absolute no brainer!!

    I think if you were really looking for trying out Pramati, you would go download the product and start using it and then benchmark it against the others and then look for referenceable customers - rather than post unintelligent and negative posts here! BTW are you related to A B?

    Arun
  12. You have your business sense wrong[ Go to top ]

    Robert Brown,

    Your statements are incorrect

    "First of all PCMag ???????? Does anyone read this?? "

    There are 300000 plus members in TSS using serverside where this article has been posted. I work for a 10,000 people global IT major and we have 200+ IT guys discussing this article in our Intranet.So this is just on our end.
    There were 65 customers from our global contacts including china who discuss about this comparison in our extranet for customers. we even translated this document in chinese!

    "If names like ABB, Ericcson, Standard Chartered, ABN Amro, Morgan Stanley, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Paypal, ICICI (I think its a large Indian bank), the Indian Govt. and a host of others do not indicate a "strong" customer base, then what would? "

    You better understand What the other guy wrote up here as 'globally'
    As an IT major often we compete only with a few vendors for a customer deal and the reason being in some or many countries in this earth,customers ask for a strong local customers,prescence and support. Localization is another major factor. A company like Pramati is not even known as a 'BRAND' in many countries where many of the vendors in the article have built upo credibility

    I know in neither of these countries, ,Pramati is represented and If they need to think of these places, they must make their Studio and Server Localised and Internationalised.

    I cant find a single information in Pramati datasheets or developer white papers mentioning localisation details.

    You seem to be convinced by ranting a few customers that too mostly in India and you better take these suggestions and carry them back.

    Amul Patel
  13. PCMag report[ Go to top ]

    I used to work for Ziff-Davis(PCMag) when it was Ziff-Davis and not a chunked up entity. I wouldn't qualify anything they publish as a serious report; unless you believe corporate sponsorship history within the "rag" qualifies that company to be a market leader.
  14. PC Mag report[ Go to top ]

    "I do not work for Pramati - so you can ask them about references. I'm sure they would have lots (i.e if you are serious!) "

    Arun : you should be the guy they would love to hire ,having their customers and information at your fingertips!

    Perhaps some guys would envy you for your knowledge on their demographics!

    Come on..

    AB
  15. PC Mag report[ Go to top ]

    Arun : you should be the guy they would love to hire ,having their customers and information at your fingertips!

     
    > Perhaps some guys would envy you for your knowledge on their demographics!
     
    Hmmm...well, that certainly is not a bad idea AB, hope they take me sometime - THAT would be dream job !!

    FYI - I (and a whole lot of my friends) know a lot about Pramati since we have been using their products from our project days and are proud to have at least one Indian firm attempting to stand up to a global product challenge.

    I know for one certain person who envy's my (and for that matter anybody's) knowledge on Pramati and cannot stand it!!

    Keep burning!! :-)

    Arun
  16. PC Mag Report[ Go to top ]

    *Arun : you should be the guy they would love to hire ,having their customers and information at your fingertips!
      
    <>Hmmm...well, that certainly is not a bad idea AB, hope they take me sometime -THAT would be dream job !! FYI - I (and a whole lot of my friends) know a lot about Pramati since we have been using their products from our project days and are proud to have at least one Indian firm attempting to stand up to a global product challenge. I know for one certain person who envy's my (and for that matter anybody's) knowledge on Pramati and cannot stand it!!

    Keep burning!! :-) Arun*


    Yeh man. I keep hearing from more than one guy how much he/they envy your amazing knowledge of making $1000 in a year with an army and paying them $10000 (BTW,Did you collect that $1000 fully? you better spend time there)other wise there are many guys on the prowl who will 'keep burning your' a$h..
  17. PC Mag Report[ Go to top ]

    Yeh man. I keep hearing from more than one guy how much he/they envy your amazing knowledge of making $1000 in a year with an army and paying them $10000 (BTW,Did you collect that $1000 fully? you better spend time there)other wise there are many guys on the prowl who will 'keep burning your' a$h..


    AB - what a stupid reasoning!!

    You can keep hearing whatever from as many guys....and keep justifying your equally stupid and single minded confused crusade

    Better than worrying about my 'a$h' burning....worry about yours which is already on fire !!

    What a loser!!

    Arun!
  18. Pramati[ Go to top ]

    Why do you bring countries into picture when reviewing products ? You review/select products based on the features they offer and purely from a technology standpoint.

    Saokar
  19. Nick,

    Can I assume you use MySQL or another open source RDBMS for every back end as well? Surely the same logic that you apply in your rant above applies to the database? Oh, right...that would be stupid.

    I am all for an open source web server, app server, rdbms and o/s, but this attitude that one size fits all is not good practice. Your rant also has factually false information in it. I remember the days when TSS was a solid resource for sound technology based discussions. It has been infested by right wing Fleuryism. You guys are nuts.

    Go Apache- true open source!!!

    Harvey
  20. Harvey;

    We do not use MySQL. We selected a best of breed approach, and while I hear great things about MySQL, I (and my colleagues) do not understand it well enough to replace Oracle, a database whihc works well and we have far more experience using. Perhaps next year.......

    I do not know where you get the one size fits all attitude. I think you are imagining it because of some feelings of insecurity. But be brave of mind and stout of heart. No one is saying you personally have to do anything with JBoss, or anything else for that matter.

    As for factually false information, I do not believe I actually presented anything factually based at all except the 17k price for WebLogic. You can verify this on TSS's very own app server matrix. Next time, please be so good as to back up your specious accusations with some facts fo your own.

    Oh, and we like Apache too, but since when are they the sole owners of the mantle of open source ? Sounds like you're a little nuts yourself.

    //Nicholas
  21. When most developers cost > $100K why are you getting so bent out of shape on the price of WebLogic? And is WebSphere free? So lets say I have 5 developers working on a project, that's 5 times.... So based on your logic about money these developers are raking in the cash and need to go. Can you believe these developers not wanting to work for free? What we need is FREE LABOR to go along with FREE SOFTWARE (everything free is good, oh wait, who's going to pay my salary so I can post stupid messages all day long about JBOSS?) so lets export these jobs outside the country and pay really low wages.

    Now what once cost $517,000 ($17k for the BEA license) now cost next to nothing! Of course Nick no longer has a job and can work on JBOSS development for FREE. :^)
  22. Bryan;
    I would rather spend the bulk of my money on good people than on software, any time, so you have summed up my point exactly.
    But more importantly, what makes you think $17K is a fair price for WebLogic ? Or do you not think about it, and unthinkingly fork over the money ? And it's not just $17K.... there is support, and then per CPU charges. It sneaks up on you, doesn't it ? So will the feeling you have been fleeced.
  23. Incorrect[ Go to top ]

    What is up with you guys. Every time a performance test comes out that shows .Net outperforms java, you guys always gripe about the test.
  24. Incorrect[ Go to top ]

    Sun ONE Application Server, developed in India, is a total rewrite of their iPlanet server. This is the first release of Sun ONE Application Server even though they call it Sun ONE Application Server 7.0. Therefore, the article is correct and the high availability features of this product do not exist yet.

    Sun ONE Enterprise 7.0 edition is being released later on this year which will provide HTTP session replication and failover; nevertheless, statefull session bean failover support will not be available until the next major release of the product.

    Liber.
  25. Sun ONE Application Server, developed in India, is a total rewrite of their iPlanet server. This is the first release of Sun ONE Application Server even though they call it Sun ONE Application Server 7.0. Therefore, the article is correct and the high availability features of this product do not exist yet.


    There is only one true Application Server from India and thats Pramati....Sunone sucks in comparison to Pramati. Don't believe me - well try it out yourself....

    Thats goes on to show that despite resources and a huge brand name - Sun really did not get its act together on its Application Server...

    Arun
  26. Sunone[ Go to top ]

    Thats goes on to show that despite resources and a huge brand name - Sun really did not get its act together on its Application Server...



    It is nothing new.

    Its been the same story ever since Sun acquired Netdynamics and Netscape.
    Still,It is amazing to see SunOne in the top five list..

    Rob
  27. Not important[ Go to top ]

    Sun ONE Application Server, developed in India, is a total rewrite of their iPlanet server. This is the first release of Sun ONE Application Server even though they call it Sun ONE Application Server 7.0. Therefore, the article is correct and the high availability features of this product do not exist yet.


    This is not important. Many products are rewrites from one version to the next. So what. Sun currently, and has always, offered an app server with cluster and failover. This article makes it look like it doesn't. If Sun would have waited to release it's three editions of 7.0 at the same we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    The only reason that this article says Sun's app server doesn't provide clustering and failover is that Sun release it's three editions of 7.0 at separate times. Hardly a good reason to select an app server.

    Mike
  28. Just wanted to clarify some of the posts regarding S1 AS 7's support for clustering and high availability.

    S1 AS 7.0 EE is in the final stages of beta and is planned for release in September; it will support HttpSession persistence and includes a sophisticated HTTP load balancer.

    In Q2 next year, Sun will add support for, among other things, SFSB failover, RMI/IIOP load balancing / failure detection as well as MQ broker clustering.

    Hope this helps.

    Rich Sharples
    Java Web Services
    Sun Microsystems
  29. Performance[ Go to top ]


    Unfortunately, after initially agreeing to participate in our tests, all of the commercial J2EE leaders—BEA, IBM, Oracle, and Sun—declined for various reasons
    >>>>>>>

    Because they knew they were going to lose to nile .net benchmark :-)
  30. WAS 5 new features[ Go to top ]

    What abt some new features of WAS 5? e.g. Autonomic Computing features. Which app server provides anything like that now? though I am sure all will provide this in next versions.
  31. WAS 5 new features ?[ Go to top ]

    What are Autonomic Computing features ?
  32. WAS 5 new features ?[ Go to top ]

    What are Autonomic Computing features ?

    Hot deploy, failover, fancy admin console. You know, the same stuff that exists on other appservers, except Websphere uses IBST (Improved Buzzword Semantic Technology)
  33. Premature use[ Go to top ]

    I will not consider myself an expert on autonomic computing in anyway (in fact, I'm not sure I understand it correctly :) )

    Anyway, I wouldn't consider the features you mention as having anything to do with autonomic computing. If we talked about automatic tuning of connection pools, pre-emptive error handling (reacting to indications leading to a system breakdown) and the like then I'd call it autonomic.

    Saying that WAS5 has autonomic computing features sounds a bit like Premature Buzzword Usage (PBU?). It may have some initial work towards AC, but I think you'll find most of this work (at least from Big Blue) on AlphaWorks.

    /jonas
  34. Autonomic computing[ Go to top ]

    Actually, an admin Console would be the oppisite of autonomic computing. The technology now is used WebSphere's Mainframe versions and strides are coming on distributed platforms.

    http://www-3.ibm.com/autonomic/index.shtml

    http://www.research.ibm.com/autonomic/overview/faqs.html
  35. Does anyone really read PCMagazine?

    Four stars for Oracle9iAS was so funny, PCMagazine please just stick with reviewing MP3 players or Virus detect software...

    Floyd, you're doing great work here with TSS, but every now and then, you post obvious nonsense...
  36. Weblogic 8.1 rocks[ Go to top ]

    I am running Weblogic 8.1 in JRockit in Linux . This app server screams in performance and stablility try it out.
  37. BEA implements JMX 1.0[ Go to top ]

    As much as I know BEA WebLogic implements JMX 1.0 specification and not JMX 1.1 as incorrectly stated in PCMagazine review. Please, correct me, if I'm wrong.

    Look at http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs81/jmx/overview.html#1074616

    Regards,
    Dominik Roblek
  38. Pramati App server[ Go to top ]

    /There is only one true Application Server from India and thats Pramati....Sunone sucks in comparison to Pramati. Don't believe me - well try it out yourself..../


    Why is that Pramati is not included in the comparison being in the industry since 5 years ? 1997-98 , I remember their pre-J2EE proton server and further being the first in the world to achieve J2EE1.3 certification so on?

    Is there a lack of confidence from the user community and analysts?

    Amul
    $un
  39. JOnAS app server[ Go to top ]

    What about JOnAS application server ?

    www.objectweb.org
  40. JOnAS app server[ Go to top ]

    What about JOnAS application server ?

    >
    > www.objectweb.org

    Yes, why don't we here more about Jonas and Objectweb here on Serverside and in general?
  41. Pramati App server[ Go to top ]

    Notice Pramati website and ask the question why there is not a single customer success story there. This may be the reason why they are not included in any benchmarks.

    May be the product quality is a big question mark. The server administration console on thier website looks complicated but seems to have been put together by a bunch of undergrads.

    I love to use an Indian product but I wonder if there are any customers using Pramati app. server? Is anyone here on serverside using Pramati for serious applications?
  42. atleast they are making an effort[ Go to top ]

    Hi there-
    Notice Pramati website and see that a lot of high-profile banks are prefering Pramati. atleast those "bunch of undergrads" are making an effort to put india on the map of Application Servers. I've not used it but have heard about it a lot, positive that too. hopefully, ppl will start using it soon enough :)

    peace

    -ejbnewbie
  43. Pramati App server[ Go to top ]

    Heena,

    What power of spectacle do you have??? Better get your eyesight tested again!

    Notice Pramati website (www.pramati.com) and there are host of customers listed on the main page!! And probe a litte deeper -(http://www.pramati.com/corporate/client.htm) and you find lots of customer success stories.

    And a whole lot of them - ICICI, BSNL, Govt. of Andhra Pradesh, HDFC, Andhra Bank, IDRBT, Birlasoft, Orbitech...are Indian and have preferred Pramati over the other App. Server....and I work with one of these listed customers!!

    And then to imagine that you are intelligent enough to comment on the Administration Console...Tch Tch!!

    Arun
  44. no patterns anymore?[ Go to top ]

    A funny thing happened on my way to the job today. I stumbled upon the old TSS list!

    I was a little disappointed, Is TSS only a product-announcement list nowadays?

    No conspiracy theories? No expressing in more and more quasi scientific terms? (great fun..) no benchmarks that secretly giving Java 4-5 times as much memory, hoping that nobody would notice, trying to convince anybody that their shit in any way could be compared to Microsoft’s products?

    Your are losing your touch. It was more entertaining before!