Sun touting High Availability features in SunOne 7 Enterprise

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News: Sun touting High Availability features in SunOne 7 Enterprise

  1. Sun is pre-announcing Sun One Appserver Enterprise edition, due out next month, and it's new high availability (HA) features (99.999% uptime). The new edition allows servers to scale to 24 processors and features a HA database layer that stores transactional state information, allowing transactional loads to be shifted between appservers dynamically.

    Related Stories:
    Sun seeks to spur app server adoption(infoworld).
    Sun aims for crash-proof server software (cnet).
    Sun renders all iPlanet code extinct with new SunONE app server (newsforge).

    Threaded Messages (29)

  2. but given SUNs' (bad) history of software making , I m not sure how many people will buy it. also the $$$$$$ Pricing $$$$$ is going to be a key factor too.
    Anyone knows the numbers ?????
  3. $1000 !![ Go to top ]

    Sun will sell Sun ONE 7, Enterprise Edition, for $10,000 per processor.

    Is a app server really worth that per processor? What extras do you get? How much is support/upgrades?

    Oracle provide a J2EE 1.3 server with clustering with a good object to relational mapping tool (Top Link) And a IDE development enviroment for $5,000 per CPU.
  4. No wonder SUN is doing so poor financially. Fat managers eating away resources - thats whats is sun these days. Thank God we have open source community well established incase SUN goes down the drain.
  5. $10,000 / CPU - --- get out of here[ Go to top ]

    Sean: No wonder SUN is doing so poor financially. Fat managers eating away resources - thats whats is sun these days. Thank God we have open source community well established incase SUN goes down the drain.

    Since the hardware often is more expensive than US$10k per CPU, I don't see why the software price is so ridiculous. Not everyone runs Apache on Linux on an old 386 desktop ....

    Sometimes I think no matter what they charge, people would complain. If it were $1.99/CPU, someone would be b*tching that it was too much.

    Besides, nobody pays US$10k per CPU ... that's just the opening negotiation point. Most customers (you know, companies, the ones that actually buy software) probably demand at least 30% off up front ... and undoubtably more in quantity. Sun probably throws the software in for free when customers commit to hardware purchases ... that's what IBM does with WebSphere. And Oracle will just about pay you to use 9iAS ... if you use a competing app server, they'll give you the licenses for free and only ask for a fraction of your current maintenance payments.

    So, if the Sun software works, then for a lot of their customers it's probably worth paying for. Working software == good, whether it is free or costs money. If the software doesn't work, it doesn't matter how free or expensive it is, 'cause either way, it costs too much.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  6. $10,000 / CPU - --- get out of here[ Go to top ]

    No wonder SUN is doing so poor financially. Fat managers eating away resources -thats whats is sun these days. Thank God we have open source community well established incase SUN goes down the drain..


    Hey man, Dont you remember the times when you were that 'Fat Manager' of mine and I still hear that you continue to be so? and Aren't you supposed to mention about your famous J#EE start up than opensource with which you compete?

    If a start up can afford to have a 'Fat manager' like you , why cant SUN?

    RC
  7. $10,000 / CPU - --- get out of here[ Go to top ]

    I am talking from a Vendor's view point:If some one who has worked for decades in IT industry,would do this sort of pricing unless there is some demand or ability to sell or conviction? or the question boils down to whether SUN needs to make profits from App.servers to contribute to overall financials?

    Robert Browny
  8. $10,000 / CPU - --- get out of here[ Go to top ]

    Mr/Ms Ranjan
    1. U start with a stupidity about me working in a start up.
    2. Every damn company at some point was a start up - including SUN.
    3. Most of the start ups are DEAD - and so if sun continues to have fat stupid managers - its going to be dead too. So put that in ur peanut head.
  9. but given SUNs' (bad) history of software making , I m not sure how many people will buy it.


    Really ?? Have you heard of a little thing called Java ? Solaris ?
  10. but given SUNs' (bad) history of software making , I m not sure how many people will buy it.


    >Really ?? Have you heard of a little thing called Java ? Solaris ?


       Yes I have. But if u have heard of start office, Net dynamics, suns own previous app servers, net beans etc - then u would know what i m talking about.

      Sun is getting screwed on hardware market thats why this whole SUN ONE - TWO THREE etc is coming out now. With sooooo many vendors in the market, I dont see SUN making any big on this thing.
  11. Sean: Yes I have. But if u have heard of start office, Net dynamics, suns own previous app servers, net beans etc - then u would know what i m talking about.

    I assume you are referring to Star Office which SUN did not actually 'make' as you put it. They acquired it through their purchase of Star Division in 1999 and ironically for you released it to Open Source in 2000. Its a similar story with NetBeans, it was not 'made' by SUN. NetBeans was acquired in 1999 and released to OS in 2000. iPlanet was a pretty poor effort but it was a collaboration between Sun, Netscape and AOL if I recall correctly so I'm not sure how much of it SUN were responsible for.
  12. 1. sun bought it from someone doesnt matter - when i pay for it, i pay it to sun and sun is supposed to provide me the service. so please dont try to tell me the details of who wrote the software. sun was selling it so to the rest of thee worls be it good or bad is suns responsibility.
    regarding star office sun had great plans of sellin git, but since it never picked up, it was given to star office - addding to list of failures in suns hat.
    same with forte - net beans etc - eclipse killed it - i m glad it did. i have net beans - it used 40 % of my cpu.
     
    same with net dynamics, i planet and all other stupid software which carried suns stamp - it sucked - it never succeded.
    same is most probably going to happen to this sun one. dont tell me it was written by some programmers in india and so if it is not good its not sun who is responsible. And be open to accepot the fact that sun has a bad history of software making/ purchasing / selling.
    besides a very expensive solaris i dont see anyhting making money for SUN in near future.
       happy coding ( on real open source platforms - cheaper and better than *supposed to be made by sun* software )
  13. Netbeans is not dead and Eclipse has not killed Netbeans. You need to check out the activity on Netbeans mailing list before you make such asinine statements. In any case , there is room for both.

    OpenOfffice is pretty good . Though the user interface can throw off a MS Office user but take the time to learn it and you will be rewarded. I like the print to PDF feature.

    In fact there are pretty good boooks on both Netbeans and OpenOffice -- take the time to read them. As a matter of fact I am a happy user of Netbeans and OpenOffice . I havent used IPlanet (I am a Jboss addict)so I have no comments on that.

    Most of all, before you make a pronouncement that an Open source project is dead or killed or whatever FUD you come up with, please take the time to read up on the mailing list of the project, ask questions and ony then share your opinion. Otherwise you will sound like an ass! Like you just did!
  14. Mr/Ms Manish sharan
       1. Open office is open source which i promote too. My point was that SUN's star office sucked.
        
       2. Netbeans is way behind eclipse in terms of performance, features and stability. There is no point in reading the mailing list and reading books on it.
      3. VERY FACT THAT I HAVE TO READ A BOOK TO USE AN IDE ( NETBEAN )OR A SUITE (STAR OFFICE) AND TAKE SOME TIME TO UNDERSTAND IT, MAKES IT THE WORST TOOL EVER MADE. Try eclipse and u will never need to read a book to start using it. Try MS Office and u will not need to spend more than 2 minutes to write ur first document or make a power point.
       Sometimes its good to accept that MSFT rules in terms of office suites and best user interfaces.

    Regarding me sounding like an ASS, ofh well it depeneds upon who is the judge. If u r the judge then i m a ass for sure - To me the judge ( you ) is a jack ass.
  15. Yes I have. But if u have heard of start office, Net dynamics, suns own previous app servers, net beans etc - then u would know what i m talking about.


    Sean, You seem to be knowing $hit on what you are talking.

    Yes.Sun bought Netdynamics during pre J2EE era,But do you know that it was one of the best application servers during those times?Similarly NAS. Have you heard of BEA Tenegah before BEA weblogic came out?

    Star office is in pretty good shape for offers SME companies an alternative for expensive Microsoft office suite.

    >>same with net dynamics, i planet and all other stupid software which carried suns stamp - it sucked - it never succeded. same is most probably going to happen to this sun one. dont tell me it was written by some programmers in india and so if it is not good its not sun who is responsible. And be open to accepot the fact that sun has a bad history of software making/ purchasing / selling. besides a very expensive solaris i dont see anyhting making money for SUN in near future

    If you dont like Solaris, go for Linux.
    Do you know about Sun's Linux initiatives?
    Has SUN closed down because it didnt have a good software initiave?

    Interestingly,You seem to be much concerned about Sun's revenues than for the J2EE start up company in India (from your earlier posts)for which I presume you are some kind of a stakeholder?
  16. 1. Star office was never accepted as it was touted for. So if some group of companies is using it, ( most probably becoz their mgmt made a stupid decison to go for star office ) doesnt mean start office is great and sun made anything big out of it. Regarding not selling it and making it open source- well sun didnt want to spend money on something which is not giving any revenue. So please dont defend star office - it was meant to die. it is one of the slowest & stupid softwares ever made.

    2. About net dynamics - it was a copy cat version of power builder with data objects tied to tables on the back end etc. It was never a app server but the only option for java - client server programming that time thats why it felt good to you. Well VB and power builder were the best that time for client server development. Sun could never make a good client server API - SWING - AWT suck till date.

    3. Sun never closed down becoz it has huge cash reserves. And those reserves are made from HARDWARE and solaris sales. Not software only. And since their hardware market has gone down drastically they have no option but to go for software development now. Why wouldnt they develop a great app server till now which will rule the industry ? They make java - i m sure they have great advantage of making a great app server. SUN was lazy to realise that only hardware selling is not making any money anymore with IBM - DELL, HP kiiling serverside makrket.
       And thats why my point in this thread was (if u had paid attention) - suns software sounds costly and gven their history of software making , how much are thery going to make.

    4. About Linux - dont tell me about sun's Linux inititative - they never wanted to - but linux picked up so fast , IBM put a billion dollars to market linux and created a threat to solaris - and now LAZY SUN has realized that linux is the way to future no one wants expensive solaris - so sun started ths linux initiative.

    Please dont try to show as if u know everything - u have no clue about the developments on the corporate world and u r totally biased about SUN. I cant help u in there. And ur presumptions about my stakes are as stupid as SUNS LAZY stupid mgmt.
  17. $10,000 / CPU - --- get out of here[ Go to top ]

    //but given SUNs' (bad) history of software making , I m not sure how many people will buy it.// //No wonder SUN is doing so poor financially//

    Sean Decor,

    This is one of the ways of how SUN makes money in software
    Recent news @ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1235062,00.asp

    But dont say that you knew their deal size , financials so on, and make us all Idi@s!

    Robert Browny
  18. Hi,

    Hope the Enterprise Edition has more features than the "Platform Edition" which doesn't even have an "Order by" clause extension for its EJB-QL implementation or read-only CMP entities (!?!?) :-)

    Cheers

    Smythe
  19. Order by feature is a new functionality of EJB QL 2.1 in J2EE 1.4.
    Sun ONE Application server 7 is J2EE1.3 compatible.
    According to Sun's software forum, the next major, J2EE1.4 compatible release, 8.0 will have that.
  20. Cold hard facts[ Go to top ]

    Hello everyone,

    I really get sick of hearing people bash Sun’s software. I once worked for Sun and now work for a Sun partner. The Sun ONE products are great and probably one of the best software stacks on the market.

    The cold hard facts are:
    Sun ONE Directory Server is #1 in the market
    Sun ONE Application Server is #3 or #4 (good, considering that there are at least 20 vendors out there)
    Sun ONE Web Server #1 within fortune 500 and the only real web server that people will pay money for
    Sun ONE Portal Server – I don’t know what number it is, but it’s pretty good
    Sun ONE Messaging Server – there are 100’s of millions of mailboxes in use today

    Also, Star Office is a great product and I know of companies who are using it and saving a lot of money over MS Office. The Java IDE is one of the highest shipping IDE’s on the market.

    As for Sun ONE App Server 7 Enterprise Edition, I have customers with money in hand ready to buy when it is released.

    Mike
  21. Cold hard facts[ Go to top ]

    1. Mike must be working for sun. There is no true data to base the facts on.
    2. if we still believe in what he said - sun is doing bad financially dont know why ?.
    (p.s. - now dont tell me sun is good financially - all major analysts have put it on hold or sell status, sun has showed loss in 3 previous quarters and a hell lot of other factors indicate the heart beat is low )
  22. paranoid?[ Go to top ]

    Sean: Mike must be working for sun. There is no true data to base the facts on.

    You sound very paranoid. He told you he used to work for Sun and now works for a partner.

    Whom do you work for? Why do you have such gripes about Sun?

    (Disclosure: I don't work for Sun and I never have. However, we have bought a Sun server or two ....)

    Sean: if we still believe in what he said - sun is doing bad financially dont know why ?.

    Everyone knows why. Sun doesn't sell enough hardware + software. Their hardware is generally overpriced and relatively slow for what you pay, so they have been losing lots of sales to fast + cheap commodity servers on the low end and fast + expensive IBM servers on the high end. (IBM's hardware is WAY overpriced but is at least faster than Sun's.)

    Sean: sun has showed loss in 3 previous quarters and a hell lot of other factors indicate the heart beat is low

    They issue earnings statements every quarter. It's easy enough to find out when they make and lose money. Generally, they've been losing money now for several years, ever since the dotcom boom ended.

    However, saying "a hell lot of other factors" isn't a "cold hard fact", it is hearsay at best. You seem way overboard in your fear and loathing of Sun. Is there any rational reason why? Or do you just need some company to hate and the "hate Microsoft queue" was full this week?

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  23. paranoid? not me[ Go to top ]

    1. i m not paranoid. The way mike put his numbers is totally baseless. Every damn company tells they are # 1 or # 2. We in general know what they are and how they are. and i think Mike was really paranoid when he saw someone critisizing SUN - he must be on the marketing/sales side.
    2. I m independent consultant currently work in france for a company called vodafone.
    3. I do have a lot of experience in the industry too and dont want to brag about it, but when i see people faking real facts i hate it.
    4. I m not trying to attack sun or any other company - i m trying to defend what mike and others have said about me and my knowledge.

    As you said in your post - sun servers are relatively slow and not that cheap. I was adding to that - HP and Dell have also jumped into this market and are a real pain for sun's market. and that shows up in its financials. Cisco , oracle, ebay, amazon and all other top companies recovered from the slump, but not SUNW. and its a cold fact too.
       I have seen this one culture on TSS. Everytime anyone says something *not so good * about SUN, people just dont like it, even if its true. Not only just for star office but I remember someone fighting with me becoz i said SWING and AWT are a not great and sun couldnt ever make it efficient.
        And i say it becoz i have worked on java from late 1995 when it was just coming out of the womb of embedded systems. so when i see stupid people talking shit about how great somethings are when they really are not, and try to attack me - well i defend my self and i will.
    With all due resect to real developers with real knowledge
    - Sean D.
  24. He was totally one sided for Microsoft but at least he didn't engage in vitriolic personal attacks quite as often as Sean.
  25. people attacked me personnaly and if i respond then i m the bad guy - cant you guys accept some critisizm about sun ? - be positive and open -
  26. Sean,

    I don't care one way or the other what you have to say about Sun. However, for you to say "4. I m not trying to attack sun or any other company ..." given your posts is a bit ludicrous.

    The same charge you level at Mike (i.e. that he gives no hard facts to back up his statements) could be leveled at most of you comments as well.

    Another fine "Is!", "Is not!" discussion on TSS. The only thing that could make it worse was it thing thread mentioned JBoss (oh wait ... did I just curse it!).

    Kent
  27. my comments like sun is not doing good financially need a hard fact for u ?
    my comment abt suns SWING / AWT being bad on performance need an example ?
    my comments about suns getting kicked on server side sales need an example ?
    my comments about suns getting late on linux need an example ?

    check out the EPS for sun ( its negative - never happend in 11 years of sun)
    check out the price reduction made by sun on servers in last 9 months
    check out when sun first started accepting linux and supporting linux especially compared to others.

    regarding WSING/AWT only stupids will need an example

    Dont tell me i need to give u a spoon feeding as to where to look for these.

    I dont blab for no reason. I use TSS to gain more knowledge into whats happening in US market - sometimes i find lot of BSing going on - so i want to clear my stance
  28. my comments like sun is not doing good financially need a hard fact for u ?

    No this one I accept.

    > my comment abt suns SWING / AWT being bad on performance need an example ?
    Actually I've used bad (slow) Swing programs and pretty good (fast) ones. So this kind of carte-blanc statement is exactly what I was talking about WRT unsupported statements.

    > my comments about suns getting kicked on server side sales need an example ?
    Nope I'll by this one.

    > my comments about suns getting late on linux need an example ?
    Well I think Sun had Linux servers (via the acquisition of the Cobolt stuff) before IBM but I'm not sure I'd count that. If you assume x86 is going to win the day (or Sparc is going to loose) then Sun should have either embraced Linux or made Solaris x86 work....

    > check out the EPS for sun ( its negative - never happend in 11 years of sun)
    Yes this is true.

    > check out the price reduction made by sun on servers in last 9 months
    True, however, this makes good business sense if they are not up there in performance ... On the other hand it's only a holding action because you can only cut prices so low to make the price/performance attractive ...

    > regarding WSING/AWT only stupids will need an example
    No way to argue with this! Once again you point out my stupidity of even asking for justification! While we're at it, Java is slow and big and interpreted languages will never be as good as a compiled ones so let's all move to C++.

    > Dont tell me i need to give u a spoon feeding as to where to look for these.
    Could you spoon feed me? That's not insulting .. or is it??? I can't tell 'cause I'm stupid.

    >
    > I dont blab for no reason. I use TSS to gain more knowledge into whats happening in US market - sometimes i find lot of BSing going on - so i want to clear my stance
    So are you standing by YOUR statement that you are NOT attacking sun or by MY statement that your statement is ludicrous. I just want to give you an opportunity to be clear how you are NOT attacking Sun.
  29. paranoid?[ Go to top ]

    //Posted By: Cameron Purdy on September 02, 2003 @ 12:05 PM in response to Message #94285. Sean: Mike must be working for sun. There is no true data to base the facts on. You sound very paranoid. He told you he used to work for Sun and now works for a partner. Whom do you work for? Why do you have such gripes about Sun? //

    Folks, the news goes in a way that this guy apparently works for a Indee@n J##22 Product vendor and wants to $crew up BEA,SUN or any other J#EE vendor in a negative way and is also not a te#hnical guy....
  30. Never attacked[ Go to top ]

    Sean,

    First, I never attacked anyone. Everything that I wrote can be backup with studies. I realize that every company says that they are #1 and much of it is how you look at it. A lot of people on this list bash Sun ONE, but there are a lot of good products in the stack. For example, the products that I mentioned.

    If you want to do a quick study, go out to netcraft.com and find out what web servers people are running. The Sun ONE Web Server still shows up there as Netscape/Enterprise server, but it's still Sun ONE. You'll find a lot big sites from washingtonpost.com to playboy.com are running Sun ONE.

    Mike