New Research: J2EE bigger than .NET in Europe

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News: New Research: J2EE bigger than .NET in Europe

  1. New Research: J2EE bigger than .NET in Europe (46 messages)

    QNB Intelligence, an analyst firm in europe, interviewed 415 decision makers and influencers across Europe, and found that 75 per cent had adopted J2EE while 58 per cent had chosen .NET for development. 415 seems like a fairly small sampling, but still interesting to hear.

    Some more information:

    Many organisations (41 per cent) saw dual-platform as the route forward. Those with a single-platform strategy tend to plumb for J2EE (31 per cent), compared to .NET, (23 per cent).

    Companies which opted for a single platform were asked what effect its technologies had on the control and management of the development life-cycle. In the case of the J2EE users the more respondents (32 per cent) said that it was getting worse – 18 per cent said it was getting better. The situation was revers with .NET users with 44 per cent found the management of the development life-cycle improving – 13 per cent said it was getting worse.

    Microsoft sponsored the survey. (To even be compared to J2EE is a win for Microsoft in many ways)

    Read the article: J2EE bigger than .NET in Europe

    Threaded Messages (46)

  2. J2EE bigger than .NET in Europe[ Go to top ]

    <joke>
    Wasn't that always David Hasselhoff's big claim to fame?

    ;-)

    </joke>

    I think your comment about .NET being compared to J2EE by decision makers being a "win" is right on. Also, statistically the sample size is not that small; anything over 30 is considered "not small" believe it or not. Now whether or not the distribution used is representative and the level of significance of the findings is any good is another matter (I don't know either way, just an observation).

    Some interesting insight blurbs into the European market.
  3. It will be interesting to watch other countries over the next few years. To them, it's not just a matter of Microsoft vs. Company X, it's USA vs. Country Y. Inside the US, Microsoft may dominate because they are the master of many-a-domain. Outside the US, it might be seen as too much of a dependency on a foreign power to buy into it. This is certainly true in Asia already. I'm sure Europe is not far behind, especially France and Germany.

    I think we'll see software become more of an issue for politicians in the very near future. Unfortunately for us Canadians, our politicians usually do whatever our American big brother does. It's not uncommon for him to put us in a headlock and give us a noogy. :-)

    How ironic though, that Microsoft will have their software developed in India and China, but those countries likely won't use it. Perhaps the situation of dependency and security of software will reverse and the US will find it hard to swallow that the server software that controls nuclear power plant safety monitoring software (think Ohio) is written in China.

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  4. for your information, Sun is also a US company. So europe or asia should not be using Java either.
    The problem is not US v/s Other country the problem is 32% of single platform respondents felt using J2EE the control and management of the development life-cycle was getting worse. This is what needs to be fixed. If not .Net can easily out pace J2EE. There is nothing wrong in using server software developed in china/india in
    a powerplant as long it works :) and no black out occurs
  5. for your information, Sun is also a US company.

    > So europe or asia should not be using Java either.

    Yes, I know. But Java is not Sun alone. Yes, Sun makes a JVM and sun controls the JCP. But you are perfectly welcome to write your own JVM, your own App server, your own components and run completely independent of Sun and the USA. There are already many implementations that come from other countries (e.g. Orion app server). Furthermore, there is much more open source commitment in the Java community.

    Similarly, Linux is open enough that a country like China or Germany can write/control their own version of it --and they are!

    Don't be offended. I am not saying the "US is a big evil entity". I'm just saying, that some of these other countries might not be comfortable typing their top secret information into a US secured piece of software.

    It's just a thought. :-)

    >> There is nothing wrong in using server software
    >> developed in china/india in a powerplant as long
    >> it works

    ...and as long as it's not a matter of national security. What happens the next time there is a foreign relations issue between the two countries? Back doors have been created by individual developers in the past...are politicians any more trustworthy?

    Wow, I'm a conspiracy theorist, eh?!

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  6. <clinton>Yes, I know. But Java is not Sun alone. Yes, Sun makes a JVM and sun controls the JCP. But you are perfectly welcome to write your own JVM, your own App server, your own components and run completely independent of Sun and the USA. There are already many implementations that come from other countries (e.g. Orion app server). Furthermore, there is much more open source commitment in the Java community.
    </clinton>
    Yup I know, CLR and C# are ECMA standards(You know what ECMA stands for right:))Europeans might as well use .Net why should they use Java controlled by "Big Evil Entity The US" company. :)
  7. China government is starting to create their own SO, probably based on Linux
  8. Yup I know, CLR and C# are ECMA standards

    > (You know what ECMA stands for right:))Europeans
    > might as well use .Net

    .Net is not simply C# and CLR. .Net is a product suite/stack.

    I have nothing against C# or CLR (or .Net for that matter). But .Net was the discussion and .Net is NOT a standard, nor is it open. When Windows, SQL Server, Exchange, Visual Basic and Visual Studio (etc.) become open/standard, AND have been implemented by numerous vendors, THEN you will have a point. :-)

    You can't honestly say that when someone says ".Net" you aren't clear that they are talking about "Microsoft .Net".

    On the other hand, when someone says they're using "Java" or "J2EE", the first questions are: "Which server?", "Which IDE?", "Which VM?", "Which hardware?", "Which Database?".

    THAT is choice!

    > why should they use Java
    > controlled by "Big Evil Entity The US" company. :)

    Again, Java is not Sun and Sun is not Java! In fact, Sun does not control dominant share of ANY of the Java product spaces (App Server, IDE, Persistence etc.). I could say that they do hold the dominant VM, but as soon as I suggest that we'll see a pile of messages posted about how much better JRockit is. So there is even choice in VM.

    Most importanly this is all NOW! It's not just a promise, or a hope, or a dream. Java is open, widely implemented, portable and free NOW.

    Java enables choice and therefore freedom. It enables freedom from companies, as well as countries.

    Cheers,
    Clinton

    PS: Again, don't be offended, I don't have anything against the USA. Java provides freedom for the US as much as it does for (or from) any other country.
  9. It's not the fact that the software running in nuclear power stations is written in China or India that worries me it's the fact that Microsoft has anything to do with it. Can you imagine, "Shut down reactor 4 she's getting a little hot", "hang on, the PC's just rebooted itself again!", "OK we're shutting down..., oops, it gone all blue!", "Boy, it's getting hot in here".

    If you live in China, India, Europe or almost any non-US country and have a choice between spending several hundreds $$$s to a US software house that provides limited support for your local language/dialect/character set/culture or picking up a totally free Linux based port with full local support then the choice is easy. When something goes wrong or you want to add a new feature then you just get the local software house to fix it or make the changes, you don't need to hope Microsoft will release a fix in the latest weekly patch or implement it in the next version, which you have to pay for again.

    --------------

    On the .NET / J2EE subject I can't ever see Microsoft taking a serious proportion of the server-side market. .NET was supposed to take the world by storm but was announced (as usual) far too early and for some daft reason associated with WebServices. Even MS have now dropped their "everything.NET" markitecture. After the good part of two years it is still an unproven technology overshadowed by endless viruses in their legacy Windows versions. If we hadn't seen the down-turn, and Linux remained unheard of then they might just have made it. In the mean time Java and J2EE has gone from strength to strength despite Sun's total inability to market it without trying to push a chunk of tin at the same time.

    Not quite 2ps worth just some "ideas".

    -John-
  10. <clinton>
    Microsoft will have their software developed in India and China, but those countries likely won't use it.
    </clinton>

    Really ?? Have you spoken to all 2 billion+ of their citizens ? Or all the companies that do business there ?
  11. Really ?? Have you spoken to all 2 billion+ of their citizens ?


    Sorry, I didn't realize I would have to be absolutely literal for you to understand what I am saying:

    I was talking about the COUNTRY itself, meaning government. Right now Asian countries (read govenrments) are working together to create a separate operating system that is not Microsoft based (hence, not USA based).

    http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/applications/0,39001094,39148863,00.htm

    I'm sure you've heard that Germany has also begun a move away from Microsoft:

    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-931027.html?tag=fd_top

    Is it Microsoft they are moving away from? Or the US?

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  12. Sorry, I didn't realize I would have to be absolutely literal for you to >understand what I am saying:

    >I was talking about the COUNTRY itself, meaning government. Right now Asian >countries (read govenrments) are working together to create a separate >operating system that is not Microsoft based (hence, not USA based).

    You were making a sweeping generalization. You provide 2 urls but they also seem nothing more than exaggeration: yes some governments are funding open source OS projects -- thats what Governments are supposed to do. Why is this newsworthy ? Aren't US government grants also a funding BSD and Linux to some extent? Just because they plan to build an OS , doesn't mean businesses will use it. India continues to be a hot market for Microsoft.I know that in India HP , Dell ,etc continue to ship thousands of Desktops and servers with MS Windows pre-loaded.

    >>Is it Microsoft they are moving away from? Or the US?
    Your sweeping generalization smacks of ignorance. Read up on Indo-US relations! They are moving closer than ever.
  13. Your sweeping generalization smacks of ignorance


    I didn't make a sweeping generalization. I made a specific reference to 4 countries.

    >> Read up on Indo-US relations! They are moving closer than ever.

    India was not one of the countries I mentioned, so you're in a conversation all your own. :-)

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  14. Sorry, I did mention India in my first post, and I suppose I should not have included them in the mix. The point still stands though.
  15. Okay, I'll submit. My theory is too far fetched. It's not foreign relations that worry Japan, China, Korea, Germany and much of Europe as the original post suggests.

    It's this: Microsoft warns of new Windows flaw

    September 10, 2003 - "Microsoft Corp. warned computer users Wednesday about a new critical security hole in its Windows operating system that could allow an attacker to gain control over a computer, delete data and install unwanted programs."

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  16. I understand to plug there current worries of security breaches of their own www.microsoft.com site they have employee a Unix operating system!!
  17. --
    I understand to plug there current worries of security breaches of their own www.microsoft.com site they have employee a Unix operating system!!
    --

    That's b*****it.
  18. It's true[ Go to top ]

    --

    > I understand to plug there current worries of security breaches of their own www.microsoft.com site they have employee a Unix operating system!!
    > --
    >
    > That's b*****it.

    According to CRN (and others), it's true.
    See http://www.crn.com/components/Nl/direct/article.asp?ArticleID=44033.
  19. Microsoft.com running Linux[ Go to top ]

    I read the reports about Microsoft running on Linux and it appears to be true, I've just run nmap in "www.microsoft.com" and it reports the following:-

    nmap -sS -O www.microsoft.com
     
    Starting nmap V. 3.00 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ )
    Interesting ports on (80.15.236.8):
    (The 1598 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
    Port State Service
    22/tcp open ssh
    80/tcp open http
    443/tcp open https
    Remote operating system guess: Linux 2.1.19 - 2.2.20
    Uptime 72.373 days (since Tue Jul 1 13:09:45 2003)
     
    Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 31 seconds

    Good to see they're finally running a serious OS for a serious task!

    -John-
  20. Microsoft.com running Linux[ Go to top ]

    Almost all of the Microsoft servers for microsoft.com run Windows. (Other than obvious security problems, like running parts of IIS in the kernel where a crack can take complete control of the machine, Windows is generally an OK server OS.) The Linux servers that you are reaching are Akamai servers, IIRC. That's because Microsoft started using Akamai for microsoft.com shortly before the massive DDoS attack began on the Windows Update site.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  21. Microsoft.com running Linux[ Go to top ]

    OK, it was just a good headline, I know it's just their cache but I think it's funny all the same.

    -John-
  22. --

    > I understand to plug there current worries
    > of security breaches of their own www.microsoft.com
    > site they have employee a Unix operating system!!
    > --
    > That's b*****it.

    Actually Edward, according to netcraft, our friend above is correct --in a way.

    Now I'm not a Netcraft Junky, but it reports that the OS in use is Linux, and the Server in use is IIS 6.0. So I'm guessing they're using a Linux firewall in front of their web server. I'm not saying that there's anything wierd about that --everyone runs firewalls. But I wouldn't say that it's "b*****it". And it is ironic that even Microsoft needs *nix to some extent. :-)

    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.microsoft.com
    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#os

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  23. --

    > > I understand to plug there current worries
    > > of security breaches of their own www.microsoft.com
    > > site they have employee a Unix operating system!!
    > > --
    > > That's b*****it.
    >
    > Actually Edward, according to netcraft, our friend above is correct --in a way.
    >
    > Now I'm not a Netcraft Junky, but it reports that the OS in use is Linux, and the Server in use is IIS 6.0. So I'm guessing they're using a Linux firewall in front of their web server. I'm not saying that there's anything wierd about that --everyone runs firewalls. But I wouldn't say that it's "b*****it". And it is ironic that even Microsoft needs *nix to some extent. :-)
    >
    > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.microsoft.com
    > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#os
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Clinton

    Yes, Clinton, but the firewall is not Microsoft's, it's Akamai's. Microsoft itself is not running itself Linux. I'm no Microsoft fan, but this kind of posts “MS needs Unix to fend off hackers” are never true. I think Gates would rather shoot himself before running Linux.
  24. Check this out..[ Go to top ]

    This is explained in this URL ->

    http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/08/17/wwwmicrosoftcom_runs_linux_up_to_a_point_.html
  25. Just because the Linux servers are running at Akamai and not within the walls at Microsoft doesn't mean that Microsoft didn't make a conscious decision to solve there problems using Linux. It's not like they didn't know that was what Akamai would be using.

    The only reason I can see for a company the size of MS to farm out this type of work is to provide an excuse for having Linux in the path.
  26. Yes I made a visit to india I found Linux and open source servlet container like TomCat and JBOSS very popolar than .Not.
  27. http://news.com.com/2100-1001-231947.html?legacy=cnet

    I found this article from October 1999 (oddly enough while researching something completely off-topic). Just 4 short years ago, the numbers from one such study as this stated:

    "Despite Java's growing popularity, many big businesses just aren't ready to use it for their most important applications, the study said. For instance, business software developers still primarily reach for tried-and-tested tools, such as Microsoft's Visual Basic, along with C and C++ for building business applications, according to the study by Zona Research.

    "The survey found that 35 percent of programmers use Visual Basic as their preferred language for writing business software, while 20 percent picked C and C++. Java ranked third with 9 percent in the third quarter of 1999, up from 5 percent six months ago. "

    Oddly enough, just shy of four years later one could probably take this same quote, replace "Java's" with ".NET's", "Visual Basic" with "Java" and "C and C++" with "C#" and not be off by too terribly much. The point is that this thing really is cyclical and that it (i.e., platform prevalence) will probably continue to go round and round with no ultimate "winner" or "loser".
  28. Here we go again...[ Go to top ]

    Companies which opted for a single platform were asked what effect its technologies had on the control and management of the development life-cycle. In the case of the J2EE users the more respondents (32 per cent) said that it was getting worse – 18 per cent said it was getting better. The situation was revers with .NET users with 44 per cent found the management of the development life-cycle improving – 13 per cent said it was getting worse.

    I get very tired of ridiculous comments like this. Whenever a poll like this is taken, the following poll should also be taken: "Do you have any idea what you are talking about?" If people were to answer truthfully, you would get a majority admitting they haven't a clue; but alas, many development shops would rather blame the technology instead of their own incompetence.

    Java is a very rich platform for developing software, but if you choose the wrong technology within this platform for the job, it won't matter one bit. You're screwed. Same goes for the .Net platform, although you have much fewer choices at the moment. End result? Throw this whole article in the trash bin.
  29. Control and management?[ Go to top ]

    Can someone explain to me, just what control and management has to do with the choice of a particular architecture?

    Control and management are a discipline that should be applied across all business areas and indeed all IT.

    What this says to me is that managers perceive they have more control and management because they buy all their .NET licenses from MS, whereas in the java world you have choice. Choice does not necessarily mean lack of control or loss of ability to manage a project. It also smarts of one of the seven fallacies of networking "There is only one administrator" or more succinctly "There is only one area that administrators are competent in".

    How can anyone really qualify an argument of "The business wants a lot of control and the facility to manage everything" by saying "Oh well we'll have to go to one platform because by all accounts it easier to control and manage, even if the solution doesn't quite do it as well".

    Also you can't always rely on point and click administration.

    If an administrator mistakenly deploys something that turns out doesn't work - is that really a result of the architecture choice?
  30. More flaws found in .Net server[ Go to top ]

    Microsoft identified three vulnerabilities in Windows on Wednesday that could have a similar effect to that of the dreaded MSBlast worm of August. The flaws, which affect Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP and the 64-bit versions of Windows XP, are the latest in a string of critical weaknesses identified in Windows recently.
  31. Looking at the IT job trends in following URL, I find that IT market in Australia is moving more towards .NET related technologies.

    http://www.jobnet.com.au/ext/site/

    Saliya
  32. I'm Chinese[ Go to top ]

    It's interesting hearing many guys mentioned .Net/MS in China,India.
    As I saw,ms software are not very much liked by our officials,we're developing
    our own SO,based on Linux,maybe;and our own Office--WPS--it has just won out a public bidding,maybe more of political reason.
      I'm not saying MS is not welcomed,in education domain,many schools adopts Offices,but a recent affair put a negative influence on MS.It's about license,for chinese school has many students,but buying a license for every machine that installed MS Office is too costly,so that school bought a few,this made MS brougt an accusation against that school.
      To .Net,recently the biggest ERP software company(kingdee) in China has begun to migrate all it's products from .NET to J2EE.
      Java is good,Open Source is also good,Free is sometime good.*^_^*
  33. I'm Chinese[ Go to top ]

    Thanks for that Huang,
        It's nice to hear it directly from the "horse's mouth".

    There seem to be a few people here who are obsessed with America being called the "evil entity". This is not the way the educated population of Europe, India and China see the US. The problem is quite simply economics, Microsoft Windows cost money, Linux doesn't. This fact is also something that help Linux in the US but as with Europe we have a hell of a lot more money to spend on such "luxuries". As for India, China and other developing nations the cost of a Windows license can be as much as a few months average salary and that make Linux a no-brainer.

    Secondly there is the issue of local support and customisation, Windows is closed, you get what they give you and that's it. Linux is totally open, if you find an error you fix it, if you don't like the zip files being searched in the file manager you change it, if you don't like the local language support you change it. With Windows you're stuck, take it or leave it and the choice is simple not there's an alternative, it's got nothing to do with Microsoft being American so American's please stop the paranoia. If Microsoft was French no one would buy it and that would be because it's French. :-) (Désolé, c'est une plaisanterie)

    If you still think the rest of the world is out to get the "evil US" then as people have pointed out, why isn't Java being hit too? China and India endorse Java once again because it's OPEN and cost nothing.

    I bought a new phone the other day since my trusty Nokia 9210 died, the hinge broke after my 2 year old flattened it out :-(. Like the previous phone the new one runs Java. I wrote a tiny little "CheckServer" program (in Java) that pings my office server, Bluetoothed it to my phone and ran it. This is the power of Java! If I wanted to do that in C# I'd get the power of a great language but I'd need to dump about 1 gig of OS on my phone before it will run. Which version of Java does my phone run? Who cares, it runs Java. You can't say the same about .NET, it might technically be "open" but where's the choice and where can I get the free download, free compiler and a version that runs on my 3 different phones, Linux, Solaris, my old 200MHz machine, a hacked XBox etc. etc.???

    -John-
  34. I'm Brazilian[ Go to top ]

    It´s not just about money, it's strategic too: don't put all your eggs in one basket. If govs used only MS software, they would be putting too much resources in one hand only, creating a big dependency with a foreign company. By switching to linux, this dependency is much lower, since you have the source code, and you can choose between many distributors. The price is just the ice in the cake.

    Brazilian Govt is pushing linux forward too, even though US-Brazilian relations have been fine.

    Regards,
    Henrique Steckelberg
  35. I'm Chinese[ Go to top ]

    There seem to be a few people here who are

    > obsessed with America being called the "evil entity".

    Wow. No matter how many disclaimers I place on a message and no matter how many smileys :-), there is just no getting around it. We are an oversensitive society.

    Wow, even us "nice" Canadians can be offensive. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  36. Saliya Said:
    > Looking at the IT job trends in following URL,
    > I find that IT market in Australia is moving more
    > towards .NET related technologies.
    > http://www.jobnet.com.au/ext/site/

    Using your very same resource, but looking at the big picture, consider the following stats:

    Vendors:
      Microsoft -0.07
      Sun +0.01

    Internet Tech:
      .Net +0.1
      ASP -0.05
      Java -0.05
    * i.e. Half of the movement to .Net is from existing Microsoft products (no surprise)

    Operating Systems
      Win NT -0.04
      Unix -0.01
      Solaris +0.04
      Linux +0.01
    * My guess is many of the people moving to .Net are likely people who were running Java on Windows...

    Databases
      Oracle -0.02
      DB2 -0.02
      MSSQL -0.08
    * People have realized they have enough databases and DBAs... :-)

    Programming Lang
      Java -0.05
      VB -0.04
      C++ -0.01
    * All the programming language jobs are down! Not just Java! (apparently there isn't enough C# to even make it on the list yet)

    Location:
      Sydney +0.11
      Melbourne +0.01
      All Else -0.??

    My read on this is that people aren't moving away from any particular technology. It's just an indication of the state of the industry. Everything is going down. +0.1 of a brand new technology is not a very good trend...

    Besides, just as many people are moving away from VB and Windows (therefore .Net) as there are moving from Java. Interestingly, there is a large movement away from Windows towards Solaris and Linux...what are they going to use on those platforms? Java!

    PS: Wow! We should all move to Australia!

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  37. Australia?[ Go to top ]

    Clinton: PS: Wow! We should all move to Australia!

    I hear that there are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad days ... even in Australia.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!
  38. Australia?[ Go to top ]

    Cameron said:
    > I hear that there are terrible, horrible,
    > no good, very bad days ... even in Australia.

    Agreed. But there are also Jobs! :-) Here in Canada we have our choice of Lumberjack and Igloo Ice Mason. Then after a hard day's work the Prime Minister will be reaching into my plaid pants pocket for his majority share.

    Cheers, ;-)
    Clinton
  39. This is hardly surprising news. Any company should think hard if they want to put all eggs in one basket or not. Relying on one company's products in mission critical applications is hardly wise. I believe J2EE is the more popular platform for the simple reason that there is choice of vendors. With .Net there is always the vendor question, and it will not go away - if you go with .Net, you will probably also go with something else (likely J2EE). If you go with J2EE, you do not need .Net. It's not even a question which is better.
  40. T managers who want to run an enterprise operating system like SuSE's Linux Enterprise Server 8 or Red Hat's Enterprise Linux Advanced Server are fooling themselves if they think they can get away free—or for cheap. Have you compared the TCO or ROI of Linux to Microsoft's Server 2003—the only serious new Intel-based server operating system left out there? I have; the clear winner is Linux.

    I know, I know: Server 2003 is the fastest Microsoft operating system out there, yadda, yadda. You know what? It is. If all you care about is file or Web server speed—not costs—Server 2003 is today's hot-rod server OS. Of course, it's also pretty darn fast with bugs too.

    Besides, computing speed records last only months at most. Jeremey Allison, one of Samba's best-known developers, tells me that he's sure that a properly tuned Samba, now in the much improved Version 3, should do more than keep up with Server 2003; based on past results, where Samba kicked rump and took names, I believe him.

    As for Web speed, Microsoft compared IIS 6, which uses the kernel-mode driver, http.sys, to achieve its outstanding speed, and Apache doesn't work at the kernel level. Of course, if you want to you can match IIS 6's speed with Red Hat's TUX Web server, which also runs close to the operating system's heart. But this speed comes at a cost: Running any end-user interactive program that close to the kernel is downright dangerous, no matter what operating system you're running. With Linux, you get to choose if you want speed over danger; with Server 2003 and IIS 6, like it or lump it, you're stuck with a very fast, very dangerous Web server.

    Besides, we're talking enterprise servers, right? Not department print and file servers? You see, there's this one itty-bitty problem with Server 2003: Where are the server applications? You know, like, Exchange 2000 or 5.5. It turns out you can't run them on Server 2003. And to add salt to the wound, there are many others of Microsoft's own applications that won't run on Server 2003.

    Remember when everyone talked about how great Linux was but that it was too bad that it didn't have applications? Think again. I hate to break it to the Microsoft offices out there, but Linux now has more server applications, many more, at its administrators' beck and call than does Server 2003. Who ever thought we'd see this day?

    Think I'm talking nonsense? Look again: Stalker Software Inc.'s CommuniGate Pro 4.1 does a fair job of giving you Exchange functionality without Exchange's initial cost. Users get their Outlook e-mail and scheduling; you cut your mail servers cost; what's not to like? Besides, you can't run a shipping version of Exchange today. What was Microsoft thinking?

    Want a serious DBMS? Take your pick; you've got IBM's DB2 and Oracle's product line, and that's not even considering worthy open-source candidates like MySQL and PostgreSQL.

    Groupware ... You say you want groupware? Ever hear of a program called Lotus Domino, back-engine for a little program called Notes? It runs on Linux, too.

    Don't like those choices? There are others. With Linux, you can pick and choose the best-of-breed application servers that fit your needs at your price.

    Microsoft, on the other hand, is trying harder than ever to lock in customers by extending their proprietary technologies, with Server 2003 and at the same time demanding that you upgrade your server applications at the same time. The economy is getting better, but how many businesses can afford to upgrade their servers and their server applications at the same time? Answer: Not many.

    Consider, if you will, Office 2003. There's only one good reason to upgrade to Office 2003 that I can see, and that's to make use of its real-time, group work-collaboration and presence capability. With it you can work with co-workers on group projects when they're available over the network.

    Cool, right? But to make use of that functionality, you need Office 2003 as well as Server 2003; SharePoint Portal Server 2003 for document sharing; and Office System 2003 Live Server (formerly Greenwich) for presence and instant-messaging support. Oh, and you must be running Active Directory, too. That's an awful lot of expensive software, and—one more time—most of it's not available now anyway.

    What was Microsoft thinking?

    Want to upgrade your enterprise server operating system today? In terms of functionality, Linux wins; in terms of cost, Linux wins; and, if you upgrade to Linux, you'll win too.


    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1238672,00.asp
  41. Regardless of technocal merits of Linux and J2EE, MS will continue to kick ass and here is why:

    1. Its the desktop !
    Despite really horrendous security , MS Windows still rules the desktop. Apple remains a niche player. Linux desktop is still in infancy. Meanwhile , millions of people who have been trained in its usage or (or have learnt to accept its inadequacies) will not change to any alternative.

    2. Its the Office!
    I am sure there are several great MS Office competitors -- I am equally sure that the vast majority of us still use MS PowerPoint, Project , Word and Excel. I am personally stuck using Windows on my Laptop as a lot of work I do requires pretty presentations and documentation and project management.

    3. Its the small stuff ! Not all projects require highly skilled engineers.Most IT departments have people who are great with VB and can create small nifty apps on time and within budget.

    4. Its the sales channel.
    Micrsoft has the best VAR program. The resellers can really push MS Servers into their accounts. Linux may be able to levarge IBM VARs but that will take time. Most VARs today have made money pushing Windows and thats where their loyalty is.


    5. Its the image.
    Most people don't ever see a server and their views of MS technology is based on their investment (in terms of effort) in Windows. Note that the Government is prosecuting Trojan Writers , while taking NO steps to punish or fine the Dumb Asses who put HTTP server code in the Kernel. Or who wrote the code in Outlook to automatically execute the VBS attachments. Unlike you and me, most people think that Windows is as good as it gets. Most people think of Virus as something the bad people do to their computers -- not as a shitty OS design issue.


    The world is run by Pointy Haired Bosses. And thats who MS develops its softwares for. And thats why MS Server 2003 will go on to make billions of dollars.
  42. If you use Microsoft&#8217;s platform you will be stuck with their platform technology, and giving you no choice but use all the solutions that Microsoft provides instead of using the best breeds of software in the market. That&#8217;s why Microsoft makes billions&#8230;.

    The article written in &#8220;Enterprise Linux vs. Server 2003: Smackdown!&#8221; is right

    &#8220;3. Its the small stuff ! Not all projects require highly skilled engineers.Most IT departments have people who are great with VB and can create small nifty apps on time and within budget.&#8221;

    Microsoft is only good for the small stuff.
  43. Windows is known for its stabilities problems. I’m writing this on a win2000, that - for some unknown reason - suddenly freezes.

    Java VM's has been build for many different operating systems, some more reliable than others. You have the freedom to choose! Not .NET since it is all Windows! That is really reason enough!
  44. Re-read the last paragraph[ Go to top ]

    May be it's just me, and my understanding, but I think that you should re-read the last paragraph.

    /CL
  45. IIs and .Not declining[ Go to top ]

    Apache still grows, and IIS declines steadily. All this noise is pure concentrated FUD.


    http://www.netcraft.com/survey/Reports/200308/graphs.html
  46. IIs and .Not declining[ Go to top ]

    Better re-read the last report abstract:
    "Windows 2003 continues to increase in total hostname and active sites, with the number of active sites growing 109% to 185K since July 2003. "

    Regards.
  47. IIs and .Not declining[ Go to top ]

    Yes, but that's up from zero in 2002. Of course it's going to increase. The question is, how many has Windows NT, 2000, XP, whatever lost in the meantime? (I don't pretend to know the answer, or if IIS is gaining or losing share, and I don't even care much, but I thought your assertion was relatively poor.)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Easily share live data across a cluster!