Discussions

News: Project Rave Update: A Conversation with Rich Green

  1. Sun has published an interview with Rich Green, VP of Sun Developer Tools and Java Software for Sun, where he discusses the upcoming developer tool, code named: Project Rave. A technology preview of the tool is expected near the end of the year, and developers can sign up for the early access.

    Read Increasing Developer Productivity with Project Rave: A Conversation with Rich Green

    Sign up for free early access to Rave 1.0

    Threaded Messages (13)

  2. What really is Project Rave?[ Go to top ]

    Right from the first announcement of Project Rave, I am under the impression that Project Rave is a GUI dev tool that will be a direct competitor for Visual Basic from MS. Every time Project Rave is mentioned, there is a mention of 10 million developers, which is basically betting on a shift of VB developer base to Java community.

    But from the conversation article, it looks like a deployment tool. Here is what Green said "Sun has two goals with Rave. First, ...in deploying applications on ..." and he did not mention the second goal.

    Certainly it is not an IDE because he did mention Java Studio Enterprise which has Sun ONE Studio ( formerly Forte For Java ).

    There are only two questions asked in the Early Access questionare:
    What programming languages are you using in your environment?
     Java
     Visual Basic
     C#
     ....

    (Why is Visual Basic and C# options?)

    What type of applications are you building?
     Web Services
     N-tier/EJB
     Swing-based (Fat-client)
     HTML client Web

    So is it a 4GL kinda Client/Server tool or deployment tool or both or something else?

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  3. What really is Project Rave?[ Go to top ]

    If you look at the screen shot of the Project Rave, It certainly looks like an IDE. It looks like current VS.net
  4. What really is Project Rave?[ Go to top ]

    If you look at the screen shot of the Project Rave, It certainly

    > looks like an IDE. It looks like current VS.net

    It seems more ASP.NET Web Matrix (http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/).
    Like MS tool, Rave must be available as a free download.

    Ciao, Diego
  5. What really is Project Rave?[ Go to top ]

    Eclipse is the strongest IDE. But it harms Java because of SWT. And it is not so easy to design applications with Eclipse like it is with the Visual Basic IDE.

    I think there is a lot space between the IDE of Microsoft and the Eclipse IDE. If Project Rave comes close the the quality of Microsoft IDEs then Eclipse will be history. I like Eclipse, but SWT is a problem.
  6. SWT A problem?[ Go to top ]

    No problem. Don't like it don't use it.

    Those that want alternatives (instead of having only one option) and those that want to compile to small exes (yes some want this).. find it useful.
  7. Instead of waiting[ Go to top ]

    Instead of waiting for Rave to have something you can download, go download a preview of Oracle JDeveloper 10g. (http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev )

    From reading the Rave white paper, it seems that what they are trying to create is what JDeveloper has in this preview - A visual way to design the layout of a JSP/HTML based applications with an easy way to bind it to various data sources such as databases and Web services. Rave might be too late for the party...

    Check out this demo to see how it is done in JDeveloper today:
    http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev/viewlets/905p_adf_adfoverview/ADFOverview_viewlet_swf.html
  8. Nexaweb Studio[ Go to top ]

    There is another really great Java tool for developing rich UI using J2EE from Nexaweb. It is an eclipse plugin. I saw it and, man, i was blown away!
  9. Instead of waiting[ Go to top ]

    Also take a look at BEA's WebLogic Workshop. It has been available for 3 months now and has already been used in major projects to build production systems.

    Workshop has visual designers for building Struts Web Applications and many other type of projects. You can drag and drop struts actions into a controller and wire them visually to JSPs. Workshop takes care of the struts config files and other low level configuration. It really lets you focus on just building the web app.

    You can download it from:

    http://commerce.bea.com/showproduct.jsp?family=WLW&major=8.1&minor=0

    Workshop is free and comes with a free development license for WebLogic Platform (WebLogic Server, Integration and Portal). If you want to take a sneak peek before you download, you can actually also try it online. BEA is providing a demo environment that you can access directly from your browser using a plugin (Windows remote access):

    http://dev2dev.bea.com/weblogic81/tryit.jsp

    - Jesper
  10. Workshop?[ Go to top ]

    Looks-a-lot like Weblogic Workshop.. With only the webApp/database functionality? I wish there were more info.

    //ras
  11. Code Generator[ Go to top ]

    From one of the whitepapers it looks like you're going to be able to:

    1. Paint your webpages graphically using JSF
    2. Compose queries like you can in MS Access
    3. No MVC

    Looks like some code generators like CodeCharge which get you up and running but generate yucky code.
  12. Code Generator[ Go to top ]

    From one of the whitepapers it looks like you're going to be able to:

    >
    > 1. Paint your webpages graphically using JSF
    > 2. Compose queries like you can in MS Access
    > 3. No MVC
    >
    > Looks like some code generators like CodeCharge which get you up and running but generate yucky code.

    I'd be anxious to try it. I think some higher-end tools will be a great addition to the IDEs. However, when I 1st heard of this, I remember that it was NOT going to be free. Anyone know if that's the case?

    Mike
  13. Waiting for....[ Go to top ]

    ...something real. The bias of the interview being hosted on Sun's own site is somewhat of a joke. No mention of the involvement with Eclipse? When the interviewer asked "isn't this too little too late?", wouldn't any unbiased interview ask "and isn't the market already crowded with high-quality offerings from IBM, Oracle, Borland, and JetBrains?" Shouldn't sun be focusing on the platform instead of the tools when such vendors are so far ahead?

    Clearly, Sun's tools aren't in the same league as the peripheral vendors. There's a cottage industry of vendors making great tools for Java. Why would sun try and keep that market from being vibrant and active? It doesn't make sense.

    I think tools like Netbeans, while succeeding in being a technical marvel, underscore the fact that Sun just doesn't "get it" about developer productivity the way Microsoft, Eclipse (IBM) and Jetbrains get it. Sun shouldn't bother, because I don't think they will get this one right.
  14. SWT Issues?[ Go to top ]

    Everything has its place. SWT in no way harms Java. For those niches where it is a great fit it will be used. Currently I am using it for a large scale application with 6000+ users. Why, for its decent OLE capabilities and its tested and proven UI base code. I do agree that Java needs more/better editors but we are slowly getting there.