Sun ponders Open Sourcing Application Server

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News: Sun ponders Open Sourcing Application Server

  1. Sun ponders Open Sourcing Application Server (29 messages)

    Sun may open source their application server under a BSD or GPL license, according to Jonathan Schwartz. They are still looking into what this would mean, and exploring what type of open source license would be the most suitable. The reasoning is "getting the server in the hands of customers for free is better than not having them use it at all", and shows that Sun is willing to make a drastic move to compete.

    This will make the open source server market even more interesting. Sun's server will be added to the other quality servers: JBoss and JOnAS. Apache Geronimo is still being built, which could leave us with a few solid choices under the open source umbrella.

    Read:

    Sun mulls plan to offer open source app server

    Sun, BEA promote Java on x86 servers

    Threaded Messages (29)

  2. LOL[ Go to top ]

    ""Open source doesn't have to mean free," Schwartz said, explaining how the move might benefit Sun. Making the products open source should get them into the hands of more corporate developers, and companies may end up paying for services or higher end versions of its application server, he said."

    LOL. I find it very entertaining that the small JBoss Group is teaching Sun how to reinvent themselves.

    I think a smarter move would be to acquire JBoss.


    Will the entertainment ever end?

    Hans
  3. LOL -- Sort of[ Go to top ]

    I think a smarter move would be to acquire JBoss.

    This is an interesting idea. Not the first time it's come up in conversation either. At first I laughed too but after awhile ...

    What do you guys think? Would it be good for Sun and J2EE community to buy JBoss or even setup an ObjectWeb type of commercial consortium around open source? On the one hand it might give a larger marketing gorilla for JBoss but on the other, it might stifle innovation.

    I can't see Sun being the steward of J2EE/Java and not having a significant presence in the space as far as product lines. Sun One just doesn't float to the top when appservers are being considered.

    -- Frank
  4. LOL[ Go to top ]

    Jboss came up with a new business model giving ALL(not only Sun) the big app server vendors a good slap in their faces. It is not only Sun that has to reinvent themselves.
  5. Why laugh ?[ Go to top ]

    When you say "acquire JBoss", what do you mean ?

    JBoss is not a corporate entity, it is a piece of OpenSource software "owned" by many developers around the world - as a result it can't be "acquired".

    JBoss Group is a consulting group that could be acquired, but you have to ask the question of what the aim of it all is.

    Is it to have the leading J2EE app server ? or is it to have a revenue generating arm of the business ?
  6. RE: LOL[ Go to top ]

    Do you really want the entertainment to end ?
    I would prefer that the show goes on, otherwise
    the life gets too boring... :-)))
  7. deperation[ Go to top ]

    Desperate acts of a desperate vendor with an inferior product. Nothing more.
  8. desperation[ Go to top ]

    I have no experience with Sun ONE application server. People seem to be negative about it so I was just wandering what is so bad about Sun's application server? Does it perform badly or what?

    Anytime theserverside.com page downloads very slow I always notice that it is the "Powered by Oracle" cluster node giving the trouble! Is Oracle's server better than Sun's server?? Or is Sun's even worse than oracle?

    Thanks.
  9. desperation[ Go to top ]

    I have no experience with Sun ONE application server. People seem to be negative about it so I was just wandering what is so bad about Sun's application server? Does it perform badly or what?

    >
    > Anytime theserverside.com page downloads very slow I always notice that it is the "Powered by Oracle" cluster node giving the trouble! Is Oracle's server better than Sun's server?? Or is Sun's even worse than oracle?
    >
    I can tell you for sure that Sun's Sun One is better than oracle :)

    Only reason people do not like it is because they have bad memories of Net Dynamics and iPlanet...

    I think time is the biggest healer..and one day sun will come back with better name for itself.
  10. Viva The Java Republic![ Go to top ]

    Sun may open source their application server under a BSD or GPL license.


      Well, why not open source the whole Java thingy? Greatness needs courage. Now is the time free Java.

      To help Sun see the light allow me to point out the Viva! Call To Action paper online @ http://viva.sourceforge.net/action.html

       - Gerald
  11. Don't free Java[ Go to top ]

    Imagine one second that Java was free (under the apache licence for example).
    It means that Microsoft would be able to take Java, "enhance it" for the Microsoft OS, and then, you would be able to write compile and run you program only on a microsoft platform. The fact that Java is not free permits to keep away such company.
  12. Don't free Java[ Go to top ]

    Imagine one second that Java was free

    >(under the apache licence for example).
    > It means that Microsoft would be able
    >to take Java, "enhance it" for the
    > Microsoft OS, and then, you would be
    > able to write compile and run you program
    > only on a microsoft platform. The fact that
    > Java is not free permits to keep away
    > such company.

    Er ... isn't that the whole idea of "freeing Java"?
  13. Don't free Java[ Go to top ]

    If Java was open sourced according to GPL/LGPL licenses, MS could freely enhance Java, but would have to give back to the community the changes, and therefore there would be no possibility of specification hijacking.

    Please, study the different licenses to understand their implications.
  14. The Microsoft Forking Myth Again[ Go to top ]

    It means that Microsoft would be able to take Java, "enhance it" for the

    > Microsoft OS, and then, you would be able to write compile and run you program
    > only on a microsoft platform. The fact that Java is not free permits to keep
    > away such company.

      Vincent, have you ever heard about .Net or about Longhorn? Has Microsoft forked Linux? Has Microsoft forked Darwin? Has Microsoft forked Perl? Has Microsoft forked Python? Has Microsoft forked Eclipse? Has Microsoft forked Apache? I guess you get the picture.

      For more insight about Sun's lies and duplicity check out the "The Jonathan 'Sun Java Head Honcho' Schwartz Quote Collection" discussion thread over at the Javalobby.

      - Gerald
  15. Kerberos <-> CiFS

    BTW: There is a reason why Microsoft does not grant any rights to create modifications or derivatives of the newly released Office file format specifications. Control.

    http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm
  16. Dropped IPlanet long ago?[ Go to top ]

    I thought Sun Dropped the IPlanet codebase when it went to SunOne. I thought Sun One Application Server 7 was a rewrite or they bought someone's tech. Anyone know?
  17. Dropped IPlanet long ago?[ Go to top ]

    I thought Sun Dropped the IPlanet codebase when it went to SunOne. I thought Sun One Application Server 7 was a rewrite or they bought someone's tech. Anyone know?


    I don't think anybody knows. Including Schwarz.
  18. Application Server 7 != iPlanet 6.x[ Go to top ]

    I thought Sun Dropped the IPlanet codebase when it went to SunOne. I thought Sun One Application Server 7 was a rewrite or they bought someone's tech. Anyone know?


    Yes, it is a total rewrite. This is based on RI.
  19. Kerberos <-> CiFS

    >
    > BTW: There is a reason why Microsoft does not grant any rights to create modifications or derivatives of the newly released Office file format specifications. Control.
    >

    Really? Here was me thinking the whole point in having a specification was that there was only ONE version of it so we get that those nice features compatability, consistency and integration. Just imagine we all start developing our own versions of the J2EE specs. Think of the hilarity that would ensue, how we would laugh as we struggled to get our applications to function and interact. Perhaps we should not stop at major specs and rebel against the control imposed by project specifications and implement our own derivatives of them instead.

    Viva the SpecRevolution 1.0 ! (derived and modified from Revolution 1.0)
  20. Actually Sun One is not that Bad[ Go to top ]

    I found Sun One pretty easy to use, and had all the features that I really needed. All in all I was rather impressed.
  21. Actually Sun One is not that Bad[ Go to top ]

    I found Sun One pretty easy to use, and had all the features that I really needed. All in all I was rather impressed.


    What, were you a former Websphere user or something? Nowhere to go but up from that position
  22. NewBeans AppSrv[ Go to top ]

    It can be very interesting if Application Server repeat way of IDE. NetBeans is strong and sufficient for commercial using (one plays role of basis for native Sun?s IDEs). There is nothing bad in such case.
    Lets new AppSrv (if it will be) be small, rapid and 100% Java oriented (and supplied without JRE, I'm already have many versions of them and know where they can be found :)!

    P.S.
    Sun?s Application Server tends to change its name from version to version: iPlanet AppSrv 6 => Sun One Application Server 7 => Java System Application Server 7/8. Seems like each next Application Server lost backward compatibility...
  23. I think Wall Street and Open Source want Sun to spin of Java, outsource.... not open source.
    Schwartz's just misunderstood.
    Just don't be shocked.... "IBM buys Java IP from Sun, Bill Gates has a hart attack"
    .V
  24. Sun's embrace of x86 is the real story[ Go to top ]

    I think the real story here is Sun's renewed interest in the x86 platform. They've tried to orphan Solaris x86 for a while but it has taken on a life of its own.

    The days when Sun could charge a premium for its SPARC hardware are over. The recent agreement between Sun and AMD to support Solaris for AMD's 64 bit hardware and the agreement with BEA to create a Solaris x86 version of WebLogic show an emerging strategy.

    Oracle will probably follow BEA into the Solaris x86 market for app. servers since they have targeted BEAs market. I think Oracle already has an x86 version of their database. With two commercial app.servers and the Oracle database Solaris x86 becomes a viable server platform.

    (It's been a pipe dream of mine for a while to see an enterprise OS like Solaris running on low cost x86 hardware with a prime time GUI like OS/X. Maybe Sun will also license the OS/X interface from apple. OK, it's just a dream.)

    Open sourcing IPlanet (or whatever it is called this month) could be an end of life move. IPlanet has been a non-starter for Sun. They should have licensed Orion and dropped IPlanet a couple of years ago.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a friendly merger between Sun and BEA. They have a lot in common and have been good for each other. BEA has been mentioned as a hostile take over target for Oracle, but Oracle chose to go after PeopleSoft instead. Now that that merger is dead Oracle may go after BEA. A sun BEA merger would be complimentary in a lot of ways whereas a take over by Oracle would result in Oracle killing off the BEA product line like they wanted to do with PeopleSoft.
  25. I think it is great[ Go to top ]

    I think that that the move would be good for the companies that want to embrace J2EE at the broader extent, but are challenged by the cost of the WebSphere infrastructure, or uncertainity associated with the support options and open source.

    In one of my work environments which happens to be life and mission critical we have a need for an extremly distributed infrastructure where we can support hundreds of independent application servers.

    I would not mind using free Sun ONE servers instead of costly WebSpheres.


    I used iPlanet 6 before. I did not like it that much. It was always lacking in many respects. We replaced it with the WebSphere 4. And guess what - the difference was not as huge as I expected.

    All this being said - I do not think that Sun will provide a free app. server.
    Where they are going to make money from. They are being killed by cheap Linux-Intel combinations on the server front, their software is mostly free, so where the revenue will come from?

    Hint to Sun - Look at IBM for ideas. They have one commercial product in which they heavily invest (WebSphere faimlily), and then they give you a familiy of fantastic side-products such as eclipse that still keep in you "in the family".

    Regards,
    Edmon
  26. Just like spalding from Caddy Shack, Mr. Schwartz has shown one consistency in all of his public statements over the course of the last year, he can't make up his mind what he wants to do. iPLanet, I mean Sun One, I mean Java Enterprise Server, I mean Reference implementation.....

    One begs the question of why? Why continue to change the name of a product? Why leave customers hanging out to dry without backwards compitability? If I were a share holder of Sun, thank god I am not anymore, I would call for this guys head. Not only is their hardware getting replaced everywhere, they can not keep a consistent message to the market.

    If he wanted J2EE to be open source, he could have saved Sun and JBoss a lot of time and energy and embraced JBoss over a year ago when he had the chance. Four brands, and another year of declining revenue for Sun, and what do we have better?

    Their delays helped to fragment a market a la Unix, but Schwartz knows nothing about history apparently. Cut your poney tail and quit sir!
  27. Think Apache?[ Go to top ]

    How about code to Apache Geronimo under Apache License if licensing is not a issue.
  28. "Develop stickyness and get more customers thru paid services. "

    Look at what JBOSS did :).

    Also it will be a Way to get out of financial mess :)
    Go SUN GO
  29. Sun ponders Open Sourcing Application Server[ Go to top ]

    I tried Sun's application server. It is much better than JBOSS.
  30. Sun ponders Open Sourcing Application Server[ Go to top ]

    Hi Sam, if you are going to make such a claim, at least provide a few examples. Otherwise your claim has absolutely no value. Why is SunONE (or whatever it is called this week) better? Is it faster? Are there specific bugs in JBoss that affected you? Is it easier? For development, for debugging, for managing? Give some specifics, please. Also, tell us something about the project you were working on, so we have some context for what you found.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!