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News: The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET

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  1. The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET (95 messages)

    Today, The Middleware Company is announcing the launch of TheServerSide.NET, a new community focused on enterprise .NET architectural and development issues. The decision to launch a .NET community is the next phase of our new vision, TheServerSide Communities, an initiative aimed at building communities (online sites, conferences, user groups, etc) to serve practitioners of all technology backgrounds in the middleware industry.
     
    TheServerSide.NET will be similar to TheServerSide.com in style and quality. It will provide enterprise .NET architects and developers with news, articles, case studies, patterns, discussion forums, and other innovations to help people learn and stay current with enterprise technology.

    The two communities will be operated independently with their own editorial and management staff. TheServerSide.NET editor-in-chief is Ted Neward, who is active in both the Java and .NET community. Ted is a JSR 175 expert group member and author of Server-Based Java Programming. He is also a Microsoft MVP, Developmentor instructor and co-author of C# In a Nutshell, SSCLI Essentials, etc.
     
    Given our historical focus on J2EE, this announcement may come as a surprise. There may even be opposition from a small and vocal minority within this thread. However, our commitment to the J2EE community is just as strong. The launch of TSS.NET is not a reduction of our commitment to the Java community; it is simply the next step in our vision to serve developers of all technology backgrounds; Choosing NET for our next community is an independent business decision based on the large and growing number of enterprise developers using .NET. Although TheServerSide.com members may find TSS.NET useful to them (many concepts in enterprise development could apply to any platform), the launch is not an attempt to draw Java developers to .NET. The aim of TSS.NET is to serve the .NET community, independent of how TheServerSide.com serves the Java community. Microsoft was not a catalyst to TMC’s investment in TSS.NET, although they are one of the four initial sponsors of the site.

    For more detailed information about the launch, you can read the launch press release, and of course, TheServerSide.NET itself.

    Additionally, you can look forward to a lot of great things from TheServerSide Communities in 2004. TheServerSide.com Symposium, the most hard core and focused enterprise Java show around, will be held in Las Vegas from May 6-8, 2004 and announced by the end of the month. We are working on new technical J2EE case studies and we are continuing to improve the TheServerSide.com infrastructure, most recently upgrading our search engine to use Lucene and re-launching the community on this beautiful new UI that you see today. There is a lot more coming!
     
    Thanks for having been such active members over the years, and I hope you enjoy where we are taking TheServerSide Communities.
     
    Sincerely,
     
    Floyd Marinescu
    General Manager of TheServerSide Communities
    The Middleware Company
    Reply to this

    Threaded Messages (95)

  2. I like it[ Go to top ]

    I think this will help a lot of Java developers understand a little more about .Net. I expect references from one site to the other, or joint discussions/patterns, etc on topics that are relevant to both platforms.

    I don't see JAVA and .Net as a war but as a reality. Understanding the two platforms makes you a much better professional.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  3. Great idea![ Go to top ]

    Great idea! I think the TSS.Net is a little buggy though. I, for one, couldn't sign up.

    Ted, you rascal, great going.

    Sandeep.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  4. Great idea![ Go to top ]

    Great idea! I think the TSS.Net is a little buggy though. I, for one, couldn't sign up.


    Sandeep

    I could sign up just fine. No hiccups. Did you re-try?

    BTW, I know Tyler Jewell (didn't he work for BEA?) mentioned briefly about how TSS.NET was built. Is it possible to get a more detailed description? Maybe in comparison how TSS.COM was built? Maybe this could be posted as a news article?

    --Dilip
    Reply to this Reply to original

  5. Great idea![ Go to top ]

    Is it possible to get a more detailed description? Maybe in comparison how TSS.COM was built? Maybe this could be posted as a news article?

    Dilip,

    Yes, good suggestion. We do intend to do that at some point.

    Salil Deshpande
    The Middleware Company
    Reply to this Reply to original

  6. performance comparison[ Go to top ]

    I have TSS.NET and .COM open side by side. It is quite obvious the TSS.NET is faster than TSS.COM. Is it because TSS.COM has much more content? Detailed performance comparision between the two provides much more value than the PetStore war.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  7. performance comparison[ Go to top ]

    I have TSS.NET and .COM open side by side. It is quite obvious the TSS.NET is faster than TSS.COM. Is it because TSS.COM has much more content? Detailed performance comparision between the two provides much more value than the PetStore war.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  8. Wrong URL[ Go to top ]

    TSS.NET is Olympia's oldest, largest, and only locally owned and operated Internet Service Provider
    Reply to this Reply to original

  9. The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    Good thing.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  10. The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    so, there's something .net developers have to look for along with their mails daily ..doin' a lot of gud work yaar..and it's something all java developers can compare with themselves as to how .net is faring...v expect more case studies in this section...keep goin'
    Reply to this Reply to original

  11. Brilliant!![ Go to top ]

    As a J2EE developer it is important to know the pace of "competeing" technologies like .NET . Now it will be much easier to know what's going on because the same perspective on J2EE technologies that I have come to know and love is also available for .NET. This is a good thing because with that visibility, it will give us more reason to be motivated about creating new things and pushing the Java envelope. Great job and really, brilliant.

    Michael
    Reply to this Reply to original

  12. The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    Rolf you have a Personal site. May be folks would hear you up there :)
    Reply to this Reply to original

  13. TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    And are we to understand that TheServerSide.net runs on... a J2EE server?
    Reply to this Reply to original

  14. The Architecture[ Go to top ]

    Hi Everyone-

    TheServerSide.NET is actually built on enterprise .NET technologies. We have a common UI and database between TSS.com and TSS.NET. We also have single sign-on between the communities, which is the biggest benefit of having a common database. So, the combined architecture between TSS.com and TSS.NET is heterogeneous. It's composed of multiple J2EE app servers, .NET, Janeva, Postgresql, Lucene, Coherence and other technologies.

    The engineering of TSS.NET is the culmination of nine months of effort, mostly from Eric Preston. It's quite an impressive engineering feat.

    Tyler Jewell
    The Middleware Company
    Reply to this Reply to original

  15. The Architecture[ Go to top ]

    I should also point out that the 9 months quote I gave is from concept to launch, not just the engineering. That time contains all of the planning, design, engineering, editorial, recruting, content development, testing, communications, marketing, etc. The team involved in the total effort includes Ted Neward, Floyd Marinescu, Eric Preston, Nitin Bharti, Roxanne Beverstein, Dion Almaer, Lloyd Benson and many others.

    So, this just became my version of a Thank You to that extended team for an amazing accomplishment.

    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  16. The Architecture[ Go to top ]

    TheServerSide.NET is actually built on enterprise .NET technologies. We have a common UI and database between TSS.com and TSS.NET.

    Ah, well TheServerSide.NET uses ugly serif fonts. So this proves once and for all that J2EE is superior to .NET for Web UI. ;)
    Reply to this Reply to original

  17. Still an Evangelist?[ Go to top ]

    Tyler,

    I take it that you've soften your J2EE evangelism a bit since the launch and support of this new .NET site.

    Anyways, opposing viewpoints are always good. Hopefully, healthy and spirited debates will cross the communities and we can expose the bad and promote the good ideas from both camps.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  18. The Architecture[ Go to top ]

    Are you guys using Janeva exclusively to communicate from .NET to your EJB tier, or are you also using web services or other bridges? What led you to choose Janeva?
    Reply to this Reply to original

  19. At last![ Go to top ]

    Is chrismas not over already???

    For a start I am interested to hear from anybody that have used
    .NET Compact Framework with Smartphone 2003 or Windows Mobile 2003
    or possibly Flash6 for Pocket PC in enterprise environment.

    By 2006, only 45% of corporate users will count a traditional desktop
    http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS7915782149.html

    Reason, logic, and common sense may still reshape the Universe.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
    Reply to this Reply to original

  20. At last![ Go to top ]

    hehehe... wanna bet?
    Reply to this Reply to original

  21. Great...[ Go to top ]

    Rolf,

    This means that you take your hagiography of Bill Gates over to the .net version and leave us in peace.

    Bye.

    /david
    Reply to this Reply to original

  22. At last![ Go to top ]

    For a start I am interested to hear from anybody that have used

    > .NET Compact Framework with Smartphone 2003 or Windows Mobile 2003
    > or possibly Flash6 for Pocket PC in enterprise environment.


    Er, I think you have to go to theserverside.net forums to ask .NET questions, unless I totally misunderstood the purpose of it.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  23. sister sistes flooded[ Go to top ]

    Well, I think that, given the close relationship between theserverside.com and theserverside.net sites, both forums may be flooded with people from both camps, and .Net X Java discussions can grow a lot in the short course. That's just speculation, but a possible one. I just hope this does not contribute to degenerate any and all forum discussion to "mine is bigger than yours".

    Maybe not, maybe the contrary will happen, each party will keep each forum for them, and this kind of discussion won't be much of a problem. But I think the site editors may have to act in such a way as not to encourage this kind of useless fight, and try to direct each kind of user to their specific tech forum, where some posts would be more appropriate.

    If only those MS zealots could keep their promises... :)

    Peace!
    Reply to this Reply to original

  24. sister sistes flooded?[ Go to top ]

    Henrique,

    I have in the past just in a humble way advocated,

    Faster Java with less memory, stop the overuse of EJB,
    KISS development in general and particularly stateless web applications,

    and Java developers that,
    don't sacrifice the richness of the desktop and
    don't talk like a postmodern literary critic.

    Some good may come out of it after all!

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
    Reply to this Reply to original

  25. sister sites flooded?[ Go to top ]

    Henrique,

    >
    > I have in the past just in a humble way advocated,

    Oh Rolf, I am sorry to disagree, but "humble" is not exactly what you post tone sounds to a lot of people. It´s more like: "oh you poor java programmers, I pity you, come to MS and be saved from doom!".

    >
    > Faster Java with less memory, stop the overuse of EJB,
    > KISS development in general and particularly stateless web applications,
    >
    > and Java developers that,
    > don't sacrifice the richness of the desktop and
    > don't talk like a postmodern literary critic.
    >
    > Some good may come out of it after all!

    Thanks for saving us, I don't know how Java ever got where it stands today without your help until now, how can it be possible? Makes one wonder... :)

    But don't be sad: you just got your christmas present! I hope you enjoy it! :)

    Peace!
    Reply to this Reply to original

  26. test[ Go to top ]

    ÅÖÄ åöä

    Excuse me, I only want to know if the diacritical marks works right from the beginning..
    Reply to this Reply to original

  27. Login Is Borked[ Go to top ]

    I too had problems with creation of an account. I tried to email a bug report to editor at theserverside dot net but was bounced with the following message:

        host theserverside.net[64.49.215.97] said: 530
        5.7.3 Client was not authenticated

    Oh well.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  28. Login Is Borked[ Go to top ]

    Same here.


    Server Error in '/' Application.
    Runtime Error
    Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

    Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a <customErrors> tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This <customErrors> tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off".
    Reply to this Reply to original

  29. theserverside.net fix but DNS propogating[ Go to top ]

    The issue was that the mx record for mail.theserverside.net was pointing to theserverside.net which used to point to our mailserver. With the release, theserverside.net changed IPs and the mx record wasn't properly updated. The error you are getting is from the windows machine which isn't our mailserver. It has been updated to be the proper IP address but DNS takes a bit of time to get outside to the world. When it is working correctly, you will see 64.49.216.108 instead of the previous 64.49.215.97 address via dig, host, or nslookup commands. Our apologies for the inconvience.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  30. Very good to focus on Enterprise .NET[ Go to top ]

    Floyd, Ted and TSS.NET team,

    This is a great idea, and it's very nice that the TSS.com format we've always enjoyed gets a) a facelift and b) an extension in the same day.

    I like the fact that you are focusing on "Enterprise .NET" instead of just "Microsoft .NET". While there will always be strong overlap between the two, I am one of those who believes that a significant offering for cross-platform .NET in the form of Mono is a realistic possibility. I also appreciate that a forum so geared to the architecture, science and art of what we do can lend its structure to the .NET architecture community, which is in its early days IMO but maturing rapidly on the lessons of others.

    Anyway, enough rambling. Great move and thanks. Also, yes I agree - you will receive more than your fair share of heat for this from some quarters. :-)

    Mike
    Reply to this Reply to original

  31. Evil M$ buys more fud for .Not[ Go to top ]

    .Not is a total failure it is just too buggy
    Reply to this Reply to original

  32. Re: Evil M$ buys more fud for .Not[ Go to top ]

    I believe you overeacted, just a little bit. FYI, the .NET section's editor-in-chief is Ted Neward, a highly respected author and and an independent thinker. I've never heard of anyone questioning Ted's integrity, and I've been in this industry for a while :-) Just give a guy some credit, will ya?

    And btw, congrats Ted!
    Reply to this Reply to original

  33. Re: Evil M$ buys more fud for .Not[ Go to top ]

    " believe you overeacted, just a little bit. FYI, the .NET section's editor-in-chief is Ted Neward, a highly respected author and and an independent thinker"


    Independent thinker?

    Look, I don't care about silly religious wars and this .NET vs J2EE is surely for non-technical debates.

    However, the facts are simple:

    J2EE = Specification.
    You can't go to a store and ask for "Can I have 3 J2EE's please".

    .NET = implementation.
    You can go to the store and ask for "Can I have 3 .NET please".

    if you're an independent thinker how can you choose to write about an implementation dictated by a single voice - Microsoft.

    Let me know when .NET runs on other platforms and has a JSR like movement. Let me know when I have choices between open source and commercial products. Let me know when .NET provides choices period.

    This a free country and I will "choose" the right solution strategy given the requirements for my clients.

    Please no flames here, I develop with Delphi (Windows) and write software for J2EE applications using varous tools of 'my choice"...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  34. Re: Evil M$ buys more fud for .Not[ Go to top ]

    George,

    You are so biased and scared like all other Delphi programmers I have worked in the past.

    You say Microsoft restricts your freedom of choice and program in a proprietory Borland-locked-in language called Delphi which is the same as working in any Microsoft-locked-in language.

    Dont get me wrong. I love Delphi. Its a great language but I dont see any difference between using Delphi and using C#. Both lock you to a single vendor.

    And dont even think about talking to me about Kylix. I know, everybody is so excited about it that they have already abandoned Java on Linux and have decided to use Kylix instead. Yeah right! Dream on... :D
    Reply to this Reply to original

  35. Growing Pains - Sign Up throws unhandled exception[ Go to top ]

    Just adding my name to the list of those that cannot sign up. Will check back later (although it would probably be a good idea in the interim to at least specify a Custom Error Page for redirection in Web.Config ;-)

    Mike
    Reply to this Reply to original

  36. signup error[ Go to top ]

    I am getting following error, while sign-up.
    I will check later.
    BTW. Great Idea and Thank you.

    Server Error in '/' Application.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Runtime Error
    Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

    Details: To enable the details of this specific error message to be viewable on remote machines, please create a <customErrors> tag within a "web.config" configuration file located in the root directory of the current web application. This <customErrors> tag should then have its "mode" attribute set to "Off".


    <!-- Web.Config Configuration File -->

    <configuration>
        <system.web>
            <customErrors mode="Off"/>
        </system.web>
    </configuration>
     

    Notes: The current error page you are seeing can be replaced by a custom error page by modifying the "defaultRedirect" attribute of the application's <customErrors> configuration tag to point to a custom error page URL.


    <!-- Web.Config Configuration File -->

    <configuration>
        <system.web>
            <customErrors mode="RemoteOnly" defaultRedirect="mycustompage.htm"/>
        </system.web>
    </configuration>
    Reply to this Reply to original

  37. signup error[ Go to top ]

    We appreciate everyone's posts about their interest in TheServerSide.NET. We are equally concerned with any issues that you are encountering. In fact, this login issue is quite perplexing. We are tracking it down now and trying to duplicate the problem.

    Thanks,
    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  38. signup error[ Go to top ]

    We appreciate everyone's posts about their interest in TheServerSide.NET.


    Tyler, do you imply that we all should switch to .NET ?

    I dont think that you are interested in that, as far as I know you work for BEA. And I dont think that .NET users will feel that they need WL or any other of BEA products. Why would they ?

    In short I dont think that .NET could provide many business opportunities to any company other than MS. Who is going to use other IDE than VS ? other app. server than IIS/.NET server ?

    so I dont understand all that excitement you demonstrate here.

    Maris
    Reply to this Reply to original

  39. TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    Tyler, do you imply that we all should switch to .NET ?

    >

    Hi Maris-

    I left BEA in the middle of 2003 and later joined The Middleware Company. We'll be doing some communications around the TMC management team in the future. I've always been an avid supporter of the work done by TheServerSide.com and am a huge fan of online communities. My excitement for TheServerSide.NET is around the expanding focus for TMC and the opportunity for developers to have a wider array of services from TheServerSide team.

    As mentioned in Floyd's letter to the community, TSS.com and TSS.NET will be managed under different editorial staffs. The consistency will be in the UI, the editorial process and single sign-on. We aren't endorsing one architecture over the other. In fact, TheServerSide and TMC are interested in helping developers make the best choices for the challenges they are facing in middleware. We've always had an architectural and design focus with the editorial from TheServerSide.com and recognized a need in the industry to have this same focus applied to enterprise .NET technologies. We also felt that by investing in both arenas, developers will be given a consistent baseline by which to judge architecture and design issues on both platforms (ie, by applying a common editorial process, developers will be given a more level perspective by which to judge the relevance of events and activities).

    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  40. Now a word from our Sponsors?[ Go to top ]

    |
    |As mentioned in Floyd's letter to the community, TSS.com and TSS.NET will be
    |managed under different editorial staffs
    |

    I assume that this is due to workload and technical competancies of the respective editorial staff - but I am curious to know what editorial influence the sponsors have.

    IMO having an INDEPENDANT and balanced (ie a non-MSDN) source of information on .Net is the best thing that could happen for the .Net (and Java) community.

    For the J2EE community, reading about .Net isnt dangerous - you cant catch anything - however, you might learn something that will help you with your Java/J2EE projects.

    -Nick
    Reply to this Reply to original

  41. Now a word from our Sponsors?[ Go to top ]

    |

    > |As mentioned in Floyd's letter to the community, TSS.com and TSS.NET will be
    > |managed under different editorial staffs
    > |
    >
    > I assume that this is due to workload and technical competancies of the respective editorial staff - but I am curious to know what editorial influence the sponsors have.

    Hi Nick-
    You are correct in that the reason we have separate editorial staffs for each community is in relation to workload and technical competencies. But there are other motivating factors, too: we wanted some separation between the communities to hold a higher degree of editorial focus (having one editor manage both communities meant that the content was at the whim of one person that might find it challenging to stay focused or balanced). Additionally, by bringing in Ted Neward, .NET expert and author, we are able to expand the relationships TheServerSide has with vendors, product managers and other experts. Relationships have been a big part of the success with TheServerSide.com, so having a different someone accountable for building those relationships and bringing them closer to the community is a good thing.

    Regarding your question on the influence sponsors have on the direction of editorial: they are not actively involved in the direction of the editorial or what gets printed. In fact, it's the editorial model that we apply that attracts them as sponsors in the first place. It is not the case that being a sponsor means you have rights or control over what gets printed. We do work actively with all of our sponsors, give them guidance on how to get involved in the community (just the way you are now), and speak with them about the issues developers they interact with are facing daily.

    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  42. Now a word from our Sponsors?[ Go to top ]

    |
    |It is not the case that being a sponsor means you have rights or control over
    |what gets printed.
    |

    I would hope not.

    Its a question of whether the editorial staff have the ability to bite the hand that feeds them.

    The reason I bring it up, is that the first thing I noticed with TSS.net is the prominance of the sponsor advertising...

    -Nick
    Reply to this Reply to original

  43. signup error - troubleshooting and found something[ Go to top ]

    Tyler,

    Looking at the signupexists.aspx querystring, I noticed that the error in signup only occurred when I tried signing up using the same e-mail I used on TSS. When I went back to use a different e-mail address, no problem.

    Hope this helps.

    Mike
    Reply to this Reply to original

  44. .NET Is Better[ Go to top ]

    Yes... theserverside.net seems much more responsive than the theserverside.com. I guess this proves that .NET is far superior to J2EE.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  45. Faster ain't better...[ Go to top ]

    ...it just means no one's using the .net site.

    ;-)
    Reply to this Reply to original

  46. RE: .NET Is Better[ Go to top ]

    Maybe the lack of posts has something to do with it.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  47. RE: .NET Is Better[ Go to top ]

    Well, if it follows prevailing trends on TSS.com, then I'd expect something like:

    [Community-specific post 1] 4 replies
    [Community-specific post 2] 3 replies
    [Opinion piece on Community Platform] 3-5 replies
    [Any piece mentioning competing platform in slightest way] 70-100+ replies
    (repeat cycle ad nauseum)

    :-) Just jokes...all in fun...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  48. Please fix the signup[ Go to top ]

    And then please post the bug resolution.
    I'm curious how you got it wrong from the first day.

    :)

    No offence intended.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  49. Please fix the signup[ Go to top ]

    Try signing into TSS.NET with a different e-mail address. This worked for me and I was getting the error earlier. Yes, I know they are trying to do SSO, but in the meantime this works fine assuming you have another e-mail address to use.

    Hope this helps.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  50. Why???[ Go to top ]

    Why is the launch of a .Net site posted on "Your Enterprise Java Community"?

    Why is there so much appreciation for that technology from a Java Community which is build on "Write Once Run Anywhere" slogan?

    Why is there no mention of "Your Enterprise Java Community" in the launching post on the .NET site: http://www.theserverside.net/news/thread.aspx?thread_id=23295

    These are just my question in my mind. This post is not hurt anyone. Just trying to get answers.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  51. Why???[ Go to top ]

    Why is the launch of a .Net site posted on "Your Enterprise Java Community"?


    Because, they are sister sites, one focussing on enterprise Java, the other on enterprise .Net.
     
    > Why is there so much appreciation for that technology from a Java Community which is build on "Write Once Run Anywhere" slogan?

    Because, true software engineers appreciate technology in general, especially competing ones.
     
    > Why is there no mention of "Your Enterprise Java Community" in the launching post on the .NET site: http://www.theserverside.net/news/thread.aspx?thread_id=23295?

    Because, said Enterprise Java Community has been in existence for a while. Chicken and egg kind of thing, if you will.

    > These are just my question in my mind. This post is not hurt anyone. Just trying to get answers.

    Riiiight.

    Sandeep.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  52. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    I don't need any answers from a dotNot programmer. I was asking the TMC employee for answers.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  53. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    I don't need any answers from a dotNot programmer. I was asking the TMC employee for answers.


    Dude. Don't you think you're being a little presumptuous.

    For the record, I work as a J2EE architect (and still write J2EE code). In fact, I've actively introduced Java and J2EE libraries such as Hibernate, Maverick and Spring into projects that were essentially run by MS/.Net shops switching to Java.

    That doesn't mean I think that everything a supposed monopolist might churn out is bad. If you have watch the evolution of any enterprise technology, you might realize that most major innovations build off the work of other, often competing, tehnologies.

    Sandeep.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  54. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    Dude. Don't you think you're being a little presumptuous.


    I am just a Java Advocate.

    > For the record, I work as a J2EE architect (and still write J2EE code). In fact, I've actively introduced Java and J2EE libraries such as Hibernate, Maverick and Spring into projects that were essentially run by MS/.Net shops switching to Java.

    Thanks for calling yourself a J2EE Architect and not NOT Architect.
     
    > That doesn't mean I think that everything a supposed monopolist might churn out is bad. If you have watch the evolution of any enterprise technology, you might realize that most major innovations build off the work of other, often competing, tehnologies.

    J2EE didn't need .NET to evolve. Competing technologies should only improve the technology but not bankrupt the other. VB-PB, IE-Netscape, MS-SQL Server - Sybase, NT - Netware, Office-WordPerfect.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  55. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    J2EE didn't need .NET to evolve. Competing technologies should only improve the technology but not bankrupt the other. VB-PB, IE-Netscape, MS-SQL Server - Sybase, NT - Netware, Office-WordPerfect.


    Maybe J2EE could have evolved without ".NET", which is a recent development(getting less recent as we speak). But it sure didn't pop right out of the ground on some fine spring day.

    The J2EE community learnt a lot from Microsoft - for example, from ActiveX, DCOM, MTS, ASP and ISAPI, and ODBC (to name a few technologies). Microsoft often steps beyond its perceived smash-and-grab technology "acquisition" mode, to innovate and do new things. If I recall right, they have the biggest software research budget on the planet.

    So, the ubiquitous question "Is .Net better than Java?", like any technology, can only be answered given additional context.

    Sandeep
    Reply to this Reply to original

  56. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    I like the new format, and welcome TheServerSide.net site. Hopefully, the TheServerSide will be my one (two) stop for information to keep me on the leading edge of providing solutions for my clients. Looks like Borland and TheSeverSide are the only software technology providers not forcing a choice on you. Perhaps, Borland should get more involved with the TheServerSide on demos rating how "any" enterprise solution can solve "real world" business problems.

    "The J2EE community learnt a lot from Microsoft - for example, from ActiveX, DCOM, MTS, ASP and ISAPI, and ODBC (to name a few technologies). Microsoft often steps beyond its perceived smash-and-grab technology "acquisition" mode, to innovate and do new things. If I recall right, they have the biggest software research budget on the planet. "

    This is the kind of comment that the TheServerSide could debunk, a lot of developers now don't have the years of experience to realize where the actual innovation came from.

    For example, not many .NET developers realize Borland is mostly responsible for Microsoft's new technology.

    And, not a fan of Visual Basic, but this IDE set the ground floor for all development Gui's.

    We need a place to state the facts without useless propaganda, I think the TheServerSide is our last chance to "make it so"...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  57. feel pity for launch of theserverside.NET[ Go to top ]

    Dear all,

    I will attribute J2EE popularity due to JavaWorld and theserverside.com

    Direct impact of launch of theserverside.NET is the increasing awareness of .NET, hence combat J2EE.

    With more companies adopting .NET for little reasons but noise, Java fools cannot avoid to learn new thing in order to survive.

    For those who still havn't have career on architect/consultant/project manager/business analyst or even best on non-IT industry, may I say "A Men" becoz you need to dig into databank books again and web tutorial while losing your time with g/f, family and interests. Remember, Software industry is open but not build any professionalism as doctor/lawer..etc. So you will never be respected but worked as cow due to manager's honey lies on good prospect.

    PS. It's easy to find one Brazil programmer to write a full ecommerce package at less than US$50 through online sourcing.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  58. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    "The J2EE community learnt a lot from Microsoft - for example, from ActiveX, DCOM, MTS, ASP and ISAPI, and ODBC (to name a few technologies). Microsoft often steps beyond its perceived smash-and-grab technology "acquisition" mode, to innovate and do new things. If I recall right, they have the biggest software research budget on the planet. "


    > This is the kind of comment that the TheServerSide could debunk, a lot of developers now don't have the years of experience to realize where the actual innovation came from.

    George - I presume you are referring to the comment I was trying to debunk, and not my statement. In any case, here's more on that:

    Quite a bit of Microsoft enterprise technology was developed at Microsoft. Did they borrow concepts that went into MTS from CICS and other TPMs, and from CORBA? Of course they did. However, did EJB evolve out of nowhere? Of course not. EJB benefited from Microsoft's work with MTS. MTS broke new ground in making component transaction monitor technology useable (when the CORBA CTM vendors were still getting their act together). Microsoft was the first vendor to ship a functional CTM.

    Also, back in the days when I was still actively working with MS technology, I was surpised by the similarities between ISAPI (including filters) and servlet technology. Same concepts. Different programming language and API.

    The initial versions of JDBC were known, for a fact, to be larged based on Microsoft ODBC API.

    Similarly JSP 1.0, even syntactically, derives from ASP.

    > For example, not many .NET developers realize Borland is mostly responsible for Microsoft's new technology.

    George, this is not necessarily true. For instance, Microsoft and Borland are direct competitors in the IDE realm. And most of Microsoft's .NET development plus new stuff like Whidbey, Longhorn (WinFS, WinFX, Indigo) stays in Redmond. Borland veterans like Hejlsberg have brought a lot to MS from Borland, but I do not think that the two share a lot of code.

    Sandeep.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  59. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    I am just a Java Advocate.


    Is this how you represent Java advocacy? Seriously. By calling .NET developers dotNot programmers and .NOT architects? I wouldn't call you a Java advocate, I would say you are hurting the cause.

    If you are really interested in Java advocacy you would treat all developers with a certain amount of professional courtesy. You want to support Java? Treat MS developers with some respect, show them the power of Java, and help guide them over from the MS technologies.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  60. Don't need answers from a dotNot programmer[ Go to top ]

    I do respect .NET developers, but not those who mask and try to promote .NET on Java sites.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  61. "supposed monopolist" ?[ Go to top ]

    That doesn't mean I think that everything a supposed monopolist might churn out is bad.


    Are you sure you meant "supposed monopolist"? If you're standing by that, your objective stock just sunk. I do recall court decisions and market data that clearly say otherwise.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  62. Why???[ Go to top ]

    Why is the launch of a .Net site posted on "Your Enterprise Java Community"?

    >

    Hi Jay-
    A news posting was displayed on TSS.com because the editorial team felt that the launch of a community focusing on architectural issues relating to enterprise .NET was relevant for the Java community to hear about. From time to time, TSS.com posts news relating to movements with .NET that impacts enterprise Java.

    In the future, we are looking at plans to give users greater personalization, filters and control so that you will be able to aggregate content from multiple communities or restrict the content that you don't want to see. So, you will be able to customize your experience with either TheServerSide community to be what you want it to be.

    >
    > Why is there no mention of "Your Enterprise Java Community" in the launching post on the .NET site

    Well, we do reference TheServerSide.com in the about page for TheServerSide.NET and it's also mentioned in the launch press release. Since the purpose of the TSS.NET news posting is different than this one, the write ups were slightly different.

    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  63. Role of Tyler[ Go to top ]

    Tyler,

    I am so curious...could you please explain how you are involved in TSS - I can't find you in the "About" sections and as I remember you at the TSS symposium you were an enthusiastic BEA guy :-)

    From your answers in this thread it seems that you have a leading role in The Middleware Company and/or TSS?

    Thank you.

    Mirko
    :wq
    Reply to this Reply to original

  64. Role of Tyler[ Go to top ]

    Tyler,

    >
    > I am so curious...could you please explain how you are involved in TSS - I can't find you in the "About" sections and as I remember you at the TSS symposium you were an enthusiastic BEA guy :-)
    >

    Oddly enough, my speech at the TSS Symposium in Boston was one of the last activities I did in my role at BEA. I really enjoyed my time at BEA; I ended up being there for 5.5 years. It's a great company and they make some quality software. It's a company that really understands the role of middleware and developers.

    I joined The Middleware Company last summer as COO. TMC has multiple business units, one being TheServerSide Communities (TSS.com, TSS.NET, Symposiums). My responsibilities as COO include managing the business units, corporate marketing, finance, sales and HR. Not quite the role you'd expect from a technology evangelist, but I've always been business-minded.

    TMC is undergoing some changes to better focus on middleware professionals: practitioners, marketers, strategists, services executives. We'll be doing some communications in a couple months outlining a new management team, new offerings and the vision.

    In the mean time, this new UI and TSS.NET are the first steps we are making toward helping all middleware practitioners.

    Tyler
    Reply to this Reply to original

  65. Sad but true...[ Go to top ]

    I was quite impressed by the UI change of TSS.com but it came just before this sad so sad piece of news... TSS.net ... It sounds like MoveOn.us.gov : an awful betrayal. I do not reject the fact that .Net folks need that kind of ressources but it comes in a strange fashion, after months of M$ FUD sprayed on tss.com (cf all .NET vs J2EE posts). It looks like a final step to anihilate every single java lover around. I'm so impressed by M$ fud-force, do they have a public relation department or something ?

    Java brothers stand tall, the war is just beginning

    Peace,
    Gilles-
    Reply to this Reply to original

  66. Sad but true...[ Go to top ]

    I do not reject the fact that .Net folks need that kind of ressources


    They already have a lot of .net portals like TSS.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  67. Sad but true...[ Go to top ]

    You are right asp.net and gotdotnet.com are very popular and full of technical info, but none of them have any politocal influence like TSS.com. I think folks in Redmond like their voices to be heard in the real community like TSS...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  68. Need justice for Java[ Go to top ]

    Since this post is gaining much attention from the Java Community, TSS should put a text on .NET site saying "Inspired by TSS - Your Enterprise Java Community".

    - Fellow Java Architect
    Reply to this Reply to original

  69. Lucene on theserverside.net[ Go to top ]

    I appreciate theserverside.net effort, i think it will be useful for the java community.
    I am just very glad, that a complete .NET solutions still needs some kick ass j2ee componentes like the lucene search engine.
    It proves a point

    carlos orrego
    Reply to this Reply to original

  70. Lucene not an essential[ Go to top ]

    A complete .NET solution DOES NOT need components like Lucene. All Windows servers come with an Index Server that can index common documents like text, HTML, PDF and MS Office files.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  71. Lucene not an essential[ Go to top ]

    well, i am not talking about needs, i am talking about facts, and the fact is lucene is being use at the .NET site.
    It still proves a point
    Reply to this Reply to original

  72. Too gernerous?[ Go to top ]

    Okay, now that TSS, being reps of the Java community, has created a .Net site how about MS put together a Java site. Like that's ever going to happen. Or has it? Is TSS being too generous?

    Michael
    Reply to this Reply to original

  73. Press release link not working on either site[ Go to top ]

    FYI, the press release link on the TSS.com posting points to an article that has been removed (at biz.yahoo.com), and the link to the press release on TSS.NET's About page points to a random thread :-).

    I do, however, think the site is a great idea :-).

    Kito D. Mann
    Author, JSF in Action
    http://www.jsfcentral.com - JavaServer Faces news, info, and FAQ
    Reply to this Reply to original

  74. BUG FIXES[ Go to top ]

    We have fixed the press release link and other links mentioned.

    We've fixed the regisration problems on tss.net. Thanks all!

    Floyd

    ps - we will be updating the stylesheets soon to swtich fonts to relative and slightly larger fonts, as well as fix the problem of the Message # being too dark...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  75. Just testing[ Go to top ]

    This is a test of TSS&apos;s new features.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  76. 101 Reasons Why Java is Better (Reloaded)[ Go to top ]

    In celebration of the TheServerSide.NET site, I've decided to "reload" the list: "101 Reasons Why Java is Better than .NET".

    The new list is Wiki based which should provide the perfect venue for passionate debate.

    Here's the wiki:

    http://www.manageability.org/manageabilityWiki/WhyJavaIsBetterThanDotNet

    Regards,

    Carlos
    Reply to this Reply to original

  77. ohhh.... what a surprise...[ Go to top ]

    So... Was it all about? So many .NET articles in a (supposedly) J2EE forum... I see the trend and operandus mode... will there be more articles being used by MS regarding "bemchmarks" between J2EE and .NET... I bet so!!! and now with some "independent" backing...

    Anyways, the good news is that this person called Rolf (who in earth can name his son with that name?) can go and use the resources of TSS.NET for his always "useful" comments...

    mmm... time to switch to a more serious forum I think...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  78. ohhh.... what a surprise...[ Go to top ]

    mmm... time to switch to a more serious forum I think...


    I agree..
    Reply to this Reply to original

  79. I, for one, am skeptical[ Go to top ]

    I for one am *very* skeptical of anything to do with microsoft.

    Do we java developers have so short a memory as to not remember what M$ did to Java years ago...the blatent betrayal they put us through. Now we are so willing to let it go and they have offered no apology for their actions. They just come out with an (not better but equal) mouse trap, and suddenly they are seen as 'good guys'.

    M$ are more sudtle these days. One must always be on guard.

    .NET is the road to M$ lock-in. Mono? .GNU? Wait until M$ pushes its legal buttons and those of you who use these will be screwed...AGAIN.

    I am extremely skeptical with any one, or any organization that is associated with M$. Just look at what SCO did after M$ made an agreement with them.

    Everyone has a price...
    Reply to this Reply to original

  80. Money makes the world go round...[ Go to top ]

    I can understand TSS due to income constraints but I supposed this place to be the last bastion against M$...I'm just a little disappointed now...

    I know it's very emotional and subjective but does nobody see the Big Brother in M$..?

    Just at this moment M$ is overtaking another important market - PDA wit Pocket PC. How long will it take the mobile market to be completely dominated by M$..?

    Oliver dot Lauer at epost dot de
    Old Europe
    Reply to this Reply to original

  81. TheServerSide.com is still for us :)[ Go to top ]

    Oliver -

    I can hear what you are saying, but as the editor for just this site.... I hope people realise that we are all about Enterprise Java on TheServerSide.com.

    This is a community, and hence is about you guys as well as us. We try hard to come up with great news, articles, tech talks, etc to share with the community.

    I hope you will see that as time goes on this service will only get better. I hope poeple judge us on what we do for the community.

    Thanks,

    Dion
    Reply to this Reply to original

  82. Money makes the world go round...[ Go to top ]

    I can still remember last year's April Fool's day message on Microsoft acquiring SertverSide. I guess we are one step closer to it now. Anyway, the new site will give Java developers a good opportunity to appreciate both .NET and J2EE.

    regards
    Saliya
    Reply to this Reply to original

  83. Money makes the world go round...[ Go to top ]

    'Money makes the world around' honestly this is what that has come to my mind when I have seen the news about the launch.anyway lets hope J2ee Community will improve quickly at looking at the developments in the .Net Community.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  84. Almost the same layout[ Go to top ]

    The only thing missing in the layout of the .Net version is the "Running On" column of course.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  85. The 'pattern' goes must deeper than that ...[ Go to top ]

    I can still remember last year's April Fool's day message ...


    Saliya,
    the 'pattern' goes much deeper than that. Remember comparison tests between .NET and J2EE done by TSS 'experts'? Have you noticed that in the last year or two, we have seen more and more .NET articles in "our" J2EE comunity? Because sombody feels that he has a right to tell us what a "true software developer is". (this sounds almost offending to me) Remember the news of TSS being developed in .NET? Seems like somebody had to "work" (prepare/direct) community for what was coming and has done terrific job in it.

    For Dion, people will judge you by how much you contribute to community, but even more, by how much they can trust you. And for most, once the trust is gonne it is gonne. I completely lost my trust in TSS in the last year or two. While I've enjoyed many articles on this site, I couldnt go without noticing a pattern that had absolutely nothing to do with "Your Enterprise Java Community" slogan, and which was so present there. It had its purpose.

    Anyways, it will be very interesting to see:
    - If .NET developers should know about the other world out there (how many articles are we going to have on .NET site about J2EE); and
    - If .NET site will bash Microsoft (and .NET for that matter) the way many love bashing, or being very critical of Sun here.

    For my .NET resources, I'm gonna stick to what Ive been using so far.

    Regards All,
    Reply to this Reply to original

  86. The 'pattern' goes must deeper than that ...[ Go to top ]

    Very true. I doubt there are many Java developers who give a hoot about .Net or wish to learn about .Net because their shops have both systems...there are probably just a handful.

    Given a choice, I doubt Dion and team would like to do anything with .Net. I see pressure from higher. If I were MS, I would go straight to the most popular J2EE site and put my FUD there. Great location targeting. They can not only show their lousy wares here and convert the weak idiots, they can also slowly diminish Java visibility by influencing the editors.

    This has the MS signature all over it.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  87. I, for one, am skeptical[ Go to top ]

    I can't agree more.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  88. Sister site[ Go to top ]

    "Because, they are sister sites, one focussing on enterprise Java, the other on enterprise .Net."

    I wanted a brother for X-mas
    Reply to this Reply to original

  89. This is neat[ Go to top ]

    Hey, me thinks me likes this :)

    Good content from day one:

    http://www.theserverside.net/studies/study.aspx?l=ThomsonOne

    I'd like to see more of these on the COM side also. (Hmm.. interesting.. is theserverside.com the precursor of theserverside.net as com came before .net.. haahaa). On the other hand, the article is quite useful for users of any technology.

    //ras
    Reply to this Reply to original

  90. The Middleware Company announces the launch of TheServerSide.NET[ Go to top ]

    TMC/TSS, great news. Great makeover for the site too, BTW! Java.Net wars apart, I believe that this move shows your committment to enterprise technologies be it Sun's or Microsoft's.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  91. .NET launched .COM down[ Go to top ]

    If you use an invalid email account to login, it will occur a line of error message.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  92. Something wrong with this picture[ Go to top ]

    Average bytes downloaded is 128K for J2EE and 8K for .NET for a period of 30 seconds. That's 16 to 1 for bytes downloaded when the page size is 5 to 3. Something is wrong here.
    Reply to this Reply to original

  93. How about the member counter?[ Go to top ]

    Can you show the member counts by site? .NET must not have any yet because I don't see the count :)
    Reply to this Reply to original

  94. business is business[ Go to top ]

    I can't help but read this announcement with a great deal of sadness.

    Personally I am interested in both technology sets, and love community sites devoted to each technology. I am however greatly dissapointed by this announcement because of the mention that TMC will now be receiving a (presumably significant) portion of its income from M$.

    So given the following facts:
    1. business is business
    2. TMC drives the TSS
    3. TMC receives income from M$
    4. M$'s history of business and marketing practices

    You draw your own conclusions.

    Hugh Madden
    Reply to this Reply to original

  95. it is the members only that shape the content[ Go to top ]

    I don't think you have to worry Hugh. TSS.COM will remain the real forum because the .NET guys never talk anythink else than shop (tech talk). And I know for a fact that TSS hate my posts but they still never fall back on censur. It is a free forum and a free country!. If you think somebody is trolling, just ignore the person and he will go away.

    BTW, Do you or anybody else know why BEA has stopped their participation in TheServerSide?

    (October 13, 2003)
    BEA adds performance monitoring to WebLogic Server 8.1

    BEA yesterday announced the WebLogic Performance Monitor Console Extension (WL PMCE), an extension to WebLogic Server (WLS) 8.1, which adds machine resource monitoring, log file monitoring, network service tests, threshold monitoring (with an event/notification system), and more.

    then, only one month later,

    (November, 2003)
    BEA has opted not to renew their participation in TheServerSide J2EE Portability Experiment, and has been removed from the cluster.
    http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.jsp?l=tsscluster


    Always chismoso
    Rolf Tollerud
    Reply to this Reply to original

  96. it is the members only that shape the content[ Go to top ]

    It is a free forum and a free country!


    <joke>
    TSS should put it as their slogan instead of
    "Your Enterprise Java Community" to clarify the matter.
    </joke>
    Reply to this Reply to original