Sun posts Q4 loss of $125 million

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News: Sun posts Q4 loss of $125 million

  1. Sun posts Q4 loss of $125 million (19 messages)

    Sun has posted its financial results for Q4 2003. The results show a net loss of $125 million, or $0.04 per share. The revenue number was down 1% from last year at $2.89 billion. Despite the numbers, this isn't as bad as the $2.28 billion loss for the same period in 2002, so Scott McNealy came out stating that it was "a quarter of progress".

    Sun posts net loss of $125 million

    Threaded Messages (19)

  2. Comparing Apples with Suns[ Go to top ]

    Apple: revenue of $2 billion for the period ending Dec. 27, compared with $1.5 billion a year ago, net income grew to $63 million, or 17 cents a share, compared with a net loss of $8 million last year

      Sun: revenue of $2.9 billion for the period ending Dec. 28, slightly down from $2.91 billion from a year ago, $125 million net loss, or 4 cents a share, compared with a loss of $2.3 billion, or 72 cents a share, a year ago

    You know, the new XServes are looking niiice... ;-)
  3. Comparing Apples with Suns[ Go to top ]

    You know, the new XServes are looking niiice... ;-)


    And now that they have the G5's they look real nice. It would be nice if some of the big J2EE vendors would support this platform.
  4. i think jboss does support no?[ Go to top ]

    i have jboss 3.2.3 running fine in OSX 10.3.2 env.. even oracle 9i + mysql...
  5. Leave Java?[ Go to top ]

    Anyone can help me? is the Java skill acceptable or must we move to another language, such as Python? We know Sun control all the Java thing.
  6. Leave Java?[ Go to top ]

    personal opinion is to focus on the software engineering concepts
    such as OO, AOP, Patterns etc - then you are independent of the
    language anyways - knowing all that stuff make u a better engineer
    anyways :-)
  7. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    Really I don't understand, why SUN is facing loss ?
    Everywhere there is Java. They people are selling their product like anything.
    Star-Office and other productivity tools are spreading all over the world.
    Most of the big companies are accepting SUN Technologies and other SUN Servers.
    Still they people are in loss. why ?
    Is it true or just deliberately they are showing themselves in loss ?

    However this year's results are better than those of last year.

    Never mind,
  8. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    Sun doesn’t really make any money directly off Java (I assume it must loose rather a lot here since it has a lot of engineers still working on it). Instead it relies on its big iron servers for revenue – and almost nobody has made money in the last 3-4 years from server sales since IT budgets have been hit so hard (The only hardware people making money as far as I know are Dell and Apple). On the plus side both IBM and Sun have reported smaller loses this year and they’re also both well placed to take advantage of the demand for 64 bit servers that most of the analysts seem to think will be important so maybe that will help them.
  9. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    Sun does not know how to make money off their technology.(Sad) Take J2EE for example, who is leading the J2EE server market? BEA and IBM. Where is Sun? Is m$oft making money off .net? I believe we Java programmers would be in better positions if Sun did better finicially.
  10. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    The problem is that Sun are an engineering company when hardware (think Intel) has become a commodity more so than any other time in the computer business. The fact that the heir apparents to the o/s wars (Windows and Linux) both run on the same chips and server farms with their high scalability, low cost and high redundancy are something that they don't have a strategy for (like why run Linux on SPARC ? Doh ???)..

    They failed to capitalise on Java when they could have become defacto masters of the universe and so lost another potential cash cow. They have failed to go into the consultancy business unlike IBM (and still M$..bad move). In fact what do they have going for them ? Nothing. Their low end market is being chewed by M$ / Intel / Linux and their high enders will soon be dinosaurs. Their software is crap (excluding Solaris and Java) and yet they again could have been kings - their app server should have been where IBM Websphere and BEA WebLogic is since they owned the J2EE spec so they should have had a product out their when J2EE hit, much like M$ had MS Access, MS Word, MS Excel when Windows was released and
    out there..

    I think that either IBM will take them over or M$ will buy them in an attempt to kill Java and J2EE.

    My 2 cents worth..
  11. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    Although I am not an Analyst but still I also can suggest something.
    According to me, SUN should start selling their products to ASIA pacific, mainly in INDIA (I am also Indian) or CHINA.

    Few days back, I read an article that SUN chief commented on India Railways

    http://www.computerworld.com/developmenttopics/websitemgmt/story/0,10801,85189,00.html

    "Executive Vice President Jonathan Schwartz said his worst customer visit was with the Indian Ministry of Railways, which he said has 15 million employees. "The quote of $1.5 billion didn't go down too well, but we'll figure something out," he said."

    However It will take some time or little more efforts to leave MS products and start moving to SUN technologies.
    Java market is Hot here as somebody wrote that SUN is not gaining too much from Java so it really doesn't make anything good for SUN.
    SUN should start advertising their products.

    I personally felt very happy when I read the article that United Insurance Ltd of INDIA planned to deploy 10,000 copies of Star Office Productivity Suite, SUN's biggest deal in office products.

    http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/dec/05sun.htm

    "In one of the single biggest office software deals in the world, Sun Microsystems has sold 10,000 user licences of its Star Office productivity suite to United India Insurance. The deal is valued at Rs 2 crore (Rs 20 million)."

    So, what I think that if SUN starts paying attention toward marketing then it would be good for SUN and of-course for us also.

    SUN must target big companies in India like BHEL, ONGC, IOCL, NTPC, NHPC etc. However may be I am speaking more but it hurts when I see SUN falling down.

    Never mind, Go SUN Go...


    One thing more, Hey !!! what do you say if SUN takes over JBoss Group to work together. (Seems to be funny but think if it happens.)
  12. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    "In one of the single biggest office software deals in the world, Sun Microsystems has sold 10,000 user licences of its Star Office productivity suite to United India Insurance. The deal is valued at Rs 2 crore (Rs 20 million)."


    Sanjeev Rs. 2 crore is just $400,000 not even a $ 1 million, believe me only a handful of organizations will buy Star Office out of fashion to be anti-Microsoft. Microsoft has made its mark in the office segment. Many Wall-street firms rely on excel for most of their day-day business related work.

    What SUN is doing wrong is trying to win battles when the battles are already over and the winner has already been decided by the people.

    SUN is tring to take on Microsoft Office with Star Office when the clear winner that has been proven by the market is Microsoft Office.

    Sun One Application Server is trying to take on BEA Weblogic where-in believe it or not but BEA Weblogic has become the defacto app server in most of the firms around the world. A good time to beat BEA could have been around 1999 when it wasn't a big name.

    Now if I were to tell my client to buy SUN One Application Server he\she would ask me who is the no. 1 player, I would say BEA Weblogic, why the hell on earth would any-one put their hard-earned dollars on a product that is not No.1 , if some-thing goes wrong who in the corporate leadership would take the risk. If BEA Weblogic is no 1. people will buy it even though it may be slightly more expensive than SUN One application Server.

    This is similar to the case with Sybase database, Sybase has probably beaten Oracle on several TPC performance benchmark tests etc., how-ever when it comes to buying fresh licences a company would go with the market leader i.e. Oracle.

    Now SUN owns Java and is way ahead of competetion with any language on the number of developers using the language. SUN should capitalize it to make some money for the firm.

    Also SUN should focus its energies more. Right now if one was to visit java.sun.com one would be mesmerised by the technologies SUN is working on it. But how many of them are implementable ? For example take EJB I have worked with some Wall Street and technology firms in the past and yet to come across a production system where one has implemented the design involving Entity Beans and is still happy with it. The simple JSP\servlet solution with a database works quite neat.

    What I mean to convey is that the wonderland is different from reality. Technologically superior ideas and solutions are many a times not practical or implementable. SUN should narrow down its focus and make sure that most of the things it works on in their labs is implementable and which ultimately gets revenue for it. It's good to have a million people subscribed to developer.sun.com but if it does not convert into revenue then there is certainly some-thing flawed and the SUN Management needs to look into it.
  13. Are you guys serious?[ Go to top ]

    Anyone else find it funny how some people here (mostly software developers, I presume) are convinced that they know how to run a $18 Billion company better than the company's actual founder and executive staff?
  14. Are you guys serious?[ Go to top ]

    I think giving a valuable idea or suggestion is not restricted only if you are a CEO or part of the executive staff. If the $18 Billion company is making losses mind you not just one instance but is the 11th straight quarter when they have posted losses, then there is definitely some-thing flawed or some-thing that needs to improved.

    We all here are Java Developers who would like to see SUN dawn every morning than set one fine day.
  15. RE:Are you guys serious?[ Go to top ]

    If it really comes to Sun going down(may such a day never dawn), they could probably start exacting a fee for java. And we,who have benefitted from java technology, should be prepared to pay a small fee to use a language/architecture as beautiful as java.It's a small cost to pay,considering what might happen if an IBM or an M$ takes over. No firm that makes beautiful inventions like java/jini deserves to go belly-up.But let's hope such a day never comes. If the need arises,every true blue java guy worth his salt should put his hands up and make contributions(of any sort) to keep sun afloat. This might sound amusing,but if you're passionate enough about java,you should atleast return the favours that they've done to the community.Am too passionate about java to remain a mute spectator(Sigh).
  16. But why loss ?[ Go to top ]

    SUN is tring to take on Microsoft Office with Star Office when the clear winner that has been proven by the market is Microsoft Office.


    I disagree. Don't you remember first M$ Word versions? They were simply trying to copy WordPerfect. Star Office is the comercial suite, but the real movement goes on in OpenOffice.org. They are making a full office suite, open source, free and M$ compatible. Now is on version 1.1 and growing...

    JAVA AND SUN:
    In short, they make Java what it is now: open and multi-platform. For our own sake we should not forget that.
  17. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    Java is every-where, even the recent mars mission chose Java as it could run on multiple platforms being used at NASA. Refer to the article http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/features/mars.html
    But since Java is free where does SUN get revenues from ?
    License revenue just by selling SUN Sparc boxes ?
    But since Java runs on nearly every platform so why will a company buy expensive SUN Solaris on Sparc machines instead of buying a cheaper option i.e Linux\Mac\Silicon Graphics Workstation etc and run Java on it. This way the company gets to use the best programming langauge to develop its applications and deploy it on a much cheaper platform.

    Also 2-3 years back the argument would have hold true that Windows is popular for desktops but for Enterprise-wide production systems SUN Solaris Sparc is the only choice to provide 0 down-time , 100% reliable platform for mission-critical business systems.

    Linux has moved a long-way from an open-source to being owned by vendors such as Red-Hat. The difference it has made is that companies who earlier would have relied on SUN are infact moving towards Linux even for their production needs.

    The reason now they have some-one like Red-Hat to fall back on for support just as they could fall back on SUN for support. If vendors like Red-Hat are able to deliver well I think we have a tough patch for SUN ahead.

    Never has SUN been strong in the desktop market and if it does not re-think it's strategy and come up with some-thing soon its leadership on Solaris\Sparc for enterprise-production system might get eroded.

    One suggestion is as follows :

    I feel Java has clearly become the No.1 and most prefered language among the developer community. I feel SUN should come up with a revenue model where-in it charges for JDK licence or some-how puts like you got to pay an amount X for the usage of Java. This way it would be able to make some money and ensure it is a profitable firm. I am sure the Java community won't mind paying a paltry amount for using Java than see SUN being bought over by IBM\Microsoft etc. which would simply ruin Java.
  18. But why Loss ?[ Go to top ]

    I feel Java has clearly become the No.1 and most prefered language among the developer community. I feel SUN should come up with a revenue model where-in it charges for JDK licence or some-how puts like you got to pay an amount X for the usage of Java. This way it would be able to make some money and ensure it is a profitable firm. I am sure the Java community won't mind paying a paltry amount for using Java than see SUN being bought over by IBM\Microsoft etc. which would simply ruin Java.


    I support this, nobody will mind this if a little amount (mind it, very little) is charged from the companies who want their products to be developed in J.
    I suprise why SUN has not thought yet on this topic. Definitely it would be great source of income for SUN and of-course for us also. (Ouch !!!)

    You know something, people luv Java. Really, they luv J. and why not, when it is really a # 1 platform. Millions of developer are working in Java. Plenty of project are being developed. As i have mentioned, in INDIA, Java is at the top.
    Chief said truth, Java is Everywhere.

    SUN must pay attention on this thread. Hey !!! SUN u listen ????????

    One thing more, why not SUN and RH start working together for linux development. Why to create a new version LX 50 (say). I suggest SUN and RH should make a deal and start working on linux development together and beat the market.
  19. missing the (biz) point[ Go to top ]

    It appears that Sun does NOT have a "story" and a central theme like
    the "network is the computer" from yesteryears - hope they come up
    with some decent business initiatives before they go under

    hopefully mcnealy gets his (biz) act together and realizes that
    talk/vaporware and gee-whiz technology will get you only so far -
    the bottom line is to make money... the balance sheet is the final
    truth - look at ibm, apple, m$soft

    just my 2 cents... (feel passionate about sun's missing the boat(s))
  20. You want to be charged for Java?[ Go to top ]

    To people who are asking Sun to charge money for using Java: if you have too much money, try sending them donations.. :)
    Or maybe you guys can convince them to create downloads links like this:
    1)Java 1.4.2 Windows Free Click here to download
    2)Java 1.4.2 Windows $100 Click here to pay and then download
    and you can pick the second option.

    To people who wants Sun to release Java as open source: It's not your product, and you can stop using it if you don't like it. Go build your own product/language and release it as OS instead!