We just had the chat about open sourcing Java, and now IBM's Bob Sutor followed up with another question for Sun.
- Posted by: Dion Almaer
- Posted on: March 08 2004 16:41 EST
Bob Sutor said: "If you could get every Linux distribution with an official, certified Java implementation where you could count on what it did, what its characteristics were, that would be a very powerful thing."
Sutor disagrees with Sun's Jonathan Schwartz that Java would fork just as Linux has done, if open-sourced. He thinks that the "forking" argument is, as he puts it, "overstated." He even threw Schwartz's "bonky" characterization back in his face, saying that the market is capable of deciding for itself.
Read "Let's Bundle Free Java with Linux," Says IBM's Sutor
Sun's Schwartz: IBM's Request "Seems a Little Bonky"
- Sun will be out of business soon.... so only open source left by Vic Cekvenich on March 08 2004 17:13 EST
- IBM: "Let's Bundle Free Java with Linux" by Race Condition on March 08 2004 18:13 EST
- Pfft by Hani Suleiman on March 08 2004 22:14 EST
- IBM: "Let's reduce the suicide rate amongst our customers..." by Nick Minutello on March 09 2004 17:55 EST
Friday, lowered credit rating agina:
And the only one loosing money:
Time will tell.
Since you wanted to take that route...
If and when this all gets into court and becomes public record one day, the following allegations may be among those included in the litigation:
- That Microsoft used Lindon, Utah-based SCO Group as a puppet to create havoc in the courts against the open source software movement, which is the most serious current challenge to the Redmond, Wash., company's longtime stranglehold on the personal computer software industry;
- That Microsoft apparently paid for influence among key software industry analysts;
- That insider trading was common among heavily invested people and companies;
- That conflicts of interest occurred, in particular one involving a stockbroker/analyst who appeared on a cable television show and gave a positive recommendation to SCO stock while he owned a substantial number of SCO shares and stood to profit personally from an increase in their value.
- That money was laundered involving two international banks and several key outside business people with close ties to both Microsoft and SCO Group.
And this might not be the half of it. A story like this has numerous threads; much more information is bound to come out as time goes by.
I am totally against the open source java idea. It is just another way IBM seeks the control on Java and any chance for Microsoft to destroy the Java.
One more thing about opensource project, do you think there is no boss for the open source project? For small scale project, it could be true, but for big open source projects, you can find many big companies stand in the back of the project. So who will be the boss of the open source Java? it would be either IBM or MS, and one thing for sure is that it will not be the java developers.
Anyway, when that time comes, there will be no java developer anymore, only IBM or MS developer.
Sun: "Let's not"
Actually, the only reason you might now have a JVM where you can't count on what it did, and what its characteristics were is that IBM produces its own linux JVM, as do the blackdown team. So if you want a 'consistent' JVM then how about ditching those other two efforts?
Bundling a JVM does absolutely nothing. Linux users are offended by user-friendliness. When was the last time an app 'made it' purely due to being included in a linux distro?
Installing a JVM on any platform couldn't possibly be any easier. The bundling argument is a red herring. IBM is big on the 'open source java' purely as a PR exercise. It's worked for them by pimping their linux crap and their PR focus groups tell them to keep making opensource noises to keep the lemmings buying.
debian tries its best to package up and provide java software system-wide, but their stumbling block is that they can't distribute the jvm on which they all need to run. they instead package up the less featureful jvms which often don't fully implement everything. you still need to install your own jvm and convince the packaging system you have it (through a fake package or whatever).
being able to bundle it would definitely allow linux users to painlessly start using java apps on their everyday desktops without having to jump through hoops.
In Gentoo GNU/Linux Java support is implemented in a clean way. You just download file from Sun or IBM and place it in distfiles. Then you just call for example 'emerge sun-jdk'.
To change vm you just use java-config tool. It cannot be any easier. Of couse it would be nice if Gentoo could supply these files (sun & ibm jvm's and sdk's) with their package system, but it's quite simple to download them. Just the same what you have to do with windows etc.
IBM: "Let's Bundle Free Java with Linux"
What I would rather read:
IBM: "Let's ship a portal product that users, with or without the assistance of members of the product development team, can install on RHAS Linux inside of 4 months!"
IBM: "Let's Ship an Appserver users can reliably install on RHAS Linux inside of 2 months ... being able to patch it would be nice too"
IBM: "Let's have a Passport Site with some useful information and a convenient, intuitive interface for downloading products and patches"
Sorry. Couldnt help it. Such is life with Big Blue. :-)