Discussions

News: BEA Announces WebLogic Workshop Professional Edition

  1. BEA has announced a new professional edition of Workshop. This new version is priced just less than $1000, and allows you to commercially deploy Workshop applications. There is also a free development version of Workshop which doesn't let you deploy to production systems.

    Both versions have the restriction that applications produced with it are throttled to 5 concurrent connections. This restriction means that the new Professional edition is suited for small or departmental deployment.

    Read BEA rolls out Java-based environment

    BEA to Offer Lower-Priced WebLogic J2EE Tools

    BEA launches Java-based environment

    Threaded Messages (43)

  2. Where is the remote debugger?
    They do have a "src" view but its sorely lacking in what it can do (they seem to want you to only use the GUI).
    This IDE takes 1GB of RAM to even run!
    I think they need to do a few more releases before they charge people for it.

    -TO
  3. I have heard of very few people actually using this beast for "real work".
    And those people are not pleased at all; buggy, slow and non-standard.

    /Mattias
  4. Is ANYONE happy with this product?[ Go to top ]

    I have been using weblogic workshop 8.1 for my portal project for one month. It IS slow. On my 1GB RAM win2k machine, low virtual memory is often reported. And it is not stable. The editor may hang sometimes.
    I don't like this monster IDE.
  5. Is ANYONE happy with this product?[ Go to top ]

    I had to switch to IntelliJ IDEA to do day-to-day coding on a recent project. I only fired up Workshop for metadata generation. The Workshop product has potential, but it's very, very slow. Oh...and I HATED the autocomplete (autoassume!) every time I hit Tab in a JSP in front of a NetUI tag. It would stick an attribute in the tag on every tab. grrrrrrrrr....And build cycles took out about 2-3 hours per day during iterative development. Yes, 20%-30% of a day was wasted.
  6. I've used Workshop daily since it was in BETA and frankly for doing SOA development it's the best environment available. It might have been a bumpy ride through the initial release (had to restart the IDE a couple times a day because of memory issues), but since SP2 (on which the new Professional edition is built), the product is solid. On a P4 with 512 megs, it works fine. Sure if you're going to run a database, app server, and IDE all on the same box, a gig is better, but c'mon folks, is it really that hard to fork out $112 (latest price on Crucial) for another chip? After all, the development environment is FREE!

    This new release is pretty sweet too: all the power of the platform, page flows, business process management, controls, and a full J2EE environment that you can deploy for less than $1000.
  7. But...[ Go to top ]

    Yeah, but you can use Eclipse and JBoss for $0!!! Plus you avoid vendor lock-in to BEA.
  8. But...[ Go to top ]

    Why Pay: Yeah, but you can use Eclipse and JBoss for $0!!! Plus you avoid vendor lock-in to BEA.

    That is absolutely false. There are costs (dollar costs) associated with using any product, and JBoss (for example) can be an extremely expensive product to use. We have one customer planning to go from one unnamed app server (which is supposedly "free") to WebLogic ($10k per CPU or even $17k per CPU clustered) because that unnamed app server costs them way too much.

    As for "vendor lock in," BEA WebLogic is a J2EE certified product, and has been / continues to be the standard bearer for J2EE application servers. We have customers that switch without effort between JBoss and Weblogic for example, or that develop on one and deploy to the other. Heck, we have a customer that develops on WSAD (the WebSphere Eclipse) with WebSphere as the dev app server and deploys to WebLogic. Go figure. Any way you look at it, it's not vendor lock in. And FWIW, if it were vendor lock in, most rational decision makers would choose to lock into BEA WebLogic any day of the week over the other possibilities.

    p.s. With a fake name like "why pay," no one will ever suspect who you actually are ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  9. Put down the pipe[ Go to top ]

    JBoss can be expensive? No kidding. If you have clueless developers or a mis-managed project....this is no different no matter what tool you use, in fact I would argue the more complex the tool set, the more clueless the developers and management becomes. But that is another thread...

    So having to train your developers on some bloated IDE is cheap? how about the pool of developers out there familiar with that one IDE? If you want to have to pay the outrageous fees that BEA charges, have fun. Why not simply use the Micro$oft stack? they have way better tools than BEA, Sun, Oracle, etc...

    Why trade one lock-in for another?

    I would rather see the money spent on getting some talented developers who can use things like Struts, Eclipse, XDoclet, JBoss, etc... and watch all the $$ saved by not having to pay some vendors outragous licensing fees every year, and having to rewrite applications every time they up a version of their software because their api's change. Again, why not stop kidding yourself and buy Micro$ofts products?
  10. Put down the pipe[ Go to top ]

    Why Pay: JBoss can be expensive? No kidding. If you have clueless developers or a mis-managed project....this is no different no matter what tool you use, in fact I would argue the more complex the tool set, the more clueless the developers and management becomes. But that is another thread...

    You made the claim that JBoss is free. I'm just pointing out that you're wrong.

    For some shops, JBoss makes economic sense. For others, it doesn't. The number of shops that think that it makes sense is much larger than the number in which it does make sense.

    Why Pay: So having to train your developers on some bloated IDE is cheap?

    Not necessarily, but it can be relatively cheap. Not all projects are done by one or two hackers coding away in a garage. Some projects cost tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars; picking the right tools can save millions.

    Why Pay: how about the pool of developers out there familiar with that one IDE? If you want to have to pay the outrageous fees that BEA charges, have fun.

    No, I don't want to have to pay. I want everything for free, too. Life isn't fair. I had to pay for my car. I had to pay for my house. I have to pay for my food. I have to pay for IT services. Sometimes, I have to pay for software. Poor me.

    Why Pay: Why not simply use the Micro$oft stack? they have way better tools than BEA, Sun, Oracle, etc...

    Sometimes I do, but I tend not to spell their name with a dollar sign.

    Why Pay: Why trade one lock-in for another?

    If it's avoidable, you don't trade it.

    If it is unavoidable, you make the most intelligent choice that you can. IMHO, BEA WebLogic, with all of its quirks, is the best J2EE deployment platform out there.

    Why Pay: I would rather see the money spent on getting some talented developers who can use things like Struts, Eclipse, XDoclet, JBoss, etc... and watch all the $$ saved by not having to pay some vendors outragous licensing fees every year, and having to rewrite applications every time they up a version of their software because their api's change.

    I thought you didn't want to pay. If you can save money by buying WebLogic and hiring 100 less developers, then why wouldn't you do that? Or are you only against paying software developers that work for a different company, or against paying software developers that can't write low level code? Please explain this particular brand of nihilism to me.

    As for upgrades, WebLogic breaks relatively few features from version to version. I've used it since 3.03. I've used WebSphere since 3.5.4. I've used all three Oracle app servers (each a completely different beast, starting with the JServ rip.) I've used JBoss since version 2.x. In all these cases, sticking with the standards generally means little or no problem upgrading, and using their extensions is usually not much worse, but (yes, sometimes you are right) there are even exceptions to those rules.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  11. Put down the pipe[ Go to top ]

    so JBoss is not free? That is news to me. I just double checked their website and it does appear to still have free unlimited usage.

    I am just curious as to where you think I said developers were free?


    Also, you seem to be saying JBoss will not work on large projects. I have not not heard this before. What are your scalability problems with the container? Or are you saying you have to use Workshop to enable a 'large' project?

    You are right using the correct tools can save you a lot of money. Starting with an app server which costs zero dollars is a great way to start.
  12. Put down the pipe[ Go to top ]

    so JBoss is not free?

    That's correct.

    That is news to me. I just double checked their website and it does appear to still have free unlimited usage.

    You looked at their website? That took time. Time is not free. You just spent someone's money to look at their website. Then you spent someone's money to respond to me. That's not free. Time has never been free.

    People who assume that time is free and therefore over-estimate the relative cost of capital goods (e.g. software) will tend to do poorly in business because they are not making effective use of their resources.

    Also, you seem to be saying JBoss will not work on large projects.

    No, I never said that. There are a number of large scale JBoss projects that I am personally aware of, and quite happy to be involved with.

    Or are you saying you have to use Workshop to enable a 'large' project?

    No, I never said that either. What I was pointing out is that paying for something (like a tool) can reduce your cost, and choosing the "free" route can increase your cost.

    You are right using the correct tools can save you a lot of money. Starting with an app server which costs zero dollars is a great way to start.

    It can be a great way to start, if it addresses your needs without changes and meets your quality, throughput, scalability, reliability and other requirements.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  13. Seems like you are in Love with BEA!!![ Go to top ]

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    As for upgrades, WebLogic breaks relatively few features from version to version. I've used it since 3.03. I've used WebSphere since 3.5.4. I've used all three Oracle app servers (each a completely different beast, starting with the JServ rip.) I've used JBoss since version 2.x. In all these cases, sticking with the standards generally means little or no problem upgrading, and using their extensions is usually not much worse, but (yes, sometimes you are right) there are even exceptions to those rules.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Have you ever played around the class loader in freaking BEA weblogic in all of your version experience????.

    If I pull out my all projects issue log from BEA support site, all I can see is nothin but my clients can not deploy a portable enterprise application in BEA weblogic server cuz they can not figure out how to handle the basic class loading problems the right way.

    Dude don't cry here for your love with BEA. smart people can develop a j2ee application without paying millions to a company like BEA.
  14. Seems like you are in Love with BEA!!![ Go to top ]

    T.Q.: Have you ever played around the class loader in freaking BEA weblogic in all of your version experience????.

    Yes, I've lost a lot of hair over their classloaders. In fact, if you go back and check the newsgroups from four years ago, it's one of our employees (Rob Misek) that figured out the .jsp trick (hit a JSP first before hitting any servlet) to fool the classloader into working correctly in Weblogic 6.0 for example. Go back to the 4.5.x and 5.x era and you'll find all sorts of bitch/whine/moan from me on classloaders. What's your point? I used to have big problems with Windows back in 1992 for that matter.

    T.Q.: Dude don't cry here for your love with BEA. smart people can develop a j2ee application without paying millions to a company like BEA.

    Look, buddy, I'm sorry that you got fired from your position at BEA, but that has nothing to do with me or Weblogic classloaders.

    I don't "love" BEA, I just happen to trust their software in production more than I trust the other competing products out there. That's my opinion, and as you can see below, I'm willing to sign my real name to it.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  15. FYI...[ Go to top ]

    Garret Conaty is a Principle Marketing Technologist for BEA. Take what he says with a grain of salt.
  16. Sticking up for Garret[ Go to top ]

    Well, not sure if anyone cares, but. . .

    When Garret was working on the Beta of Workshop he was not a BEA employee. Part of the reason we hired him was because of his enthusiasm for the product (and 'cause he's a smart guy).
  17. FYI...[ Go to top ]

    Ack, my bad. Apologies for not disclosing this in my post.

    For the record, I joined BEA relatively recently, back in November. Prior to that I was the architect for TrueLink where we built sites with Workshop and WL Platform. I was intrigued (and skeptical) when I first saw Workshop as a potential customer at eWorld 2003, kicked the tires, endured the beta bugs and workarounds and experienced the SOA vision evangelised by BEA, reified in an actual product. At BEA I continue to use the product daily, listening to the community on what works and what doesn't and helping to move it forward.

    So the scratchy sound you hear is me donning my hairshirt ;)
  18. or you would think they would at least try. Cameron you are really stretching about this notion of FREE. Time to get a dose of reality...
  19. or you would think they would at least try. Cameron you are really stretching about this notion of FREE. Time to get a dose of reality...
    Which part of "time is money" do you not understand?

    Ian.
  20. Which part of "time is money" do you not understand?Ian.
    Browsing Web Site, Google etc. is still _required_ for using any commercial product including WL etc. it is not specific to JBoss therefore that logic is not applicable.

    As for Cameron's rhetoric: "free software can increase someone’s spending or commercial can decrease it". Hey, it is obvious and that post is blah-blah, saying nothing about value of a product.

    FYI: I do not believe that all soft should be free and do buy it when it has significant value for me over free offerings. Example: IDEA vs Eclipse and many more
  21. James Hardy: or you would think they would at least try. Cameron you are really stretching about this notion of FREE. Time to get a dose of reality...

    As for working for BEA, give me a friggin' break. BEA would eat my lunch if I let them, and trust me, they have been trying for a long time. At least you guys at JBG are honest about your psycho goals of putting commercial software vendors out of business ;-)

    And, on the topic of honesty, when are you going to start posting with real names again? Is "James Hardy" the same person as "Why Pay"? How do you keep track of all the fake logins and their passwords? Is there an internal spreadsheet or database that you guys use? Are you guys all allowed to use all the fake logins, or do certain people post under certain fake names? I'm just curious.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  22. re: Cameron is the newest BEA Hire[ Go to top ]

    What are you talking about? I am in no way associated with JBoss, IBM, Sun, or any other J2EE vendor. Why are you resorting to personal attacks?

    Face it...JBoss costs zero dollars. If you do not believe that, you are a complete idiot. I never said developers cost zero dollars.

    I understand you are a consultant who obviously has a lot invested in BEA and have to say Open Source really is not free so you can convince your clients to move to BEA. Just curious, how much free training and other kick backs does BEA give you when you convince people to switch to their stack?

    Also, I do not think it looks too favorable for Workshop when all you have is a bunch of BEA employees saying how great the tool is on this forum.
  23. I just recently used Workshop 8.1 SP2 to produce a portal application with great success. Yes, it can be slow and yes it needs a gig of memory to run the IDE and server. SP2 is actually better at memory management than SP1. Having done Websphere portal work with WSAD, I have to say that the CPU and memory requirements are about the same. I run it on a 2.8 Ghz hyperthreaded, 1 GB memory laptop and it moves fine.

    As for the IDE, it is definitely a winner. It is not as mature as even the freebie Eclipse for some editing features, but it kicks butt in Portlet creation, GUI Struts assembly (Pageflow), and XML/Java serializer/deserializer code generation (XMLBeans). The EJB generator (EJBGEN) works fine so I don't need XDoclet. It generates Ant scripts for individual projects or for the whole app if you want to build outside of the GUI. Most of all, the initial install is not buggy and brittle like Websphere.

    The problem I have with Workshop is its unit of development. WSAD allows projects to be peer standalone WAR, JAR, and EAR projects. Workshop pretty much works with one EAR project that is composed of other project types. This makes subproject sharing and CVS project configuration difficult. You have to import shared projects into an application. BEA Portal has bugs but BEA seems to work through the issues.

    cheers

    andrew
  24. I've used Workshop daily since it was in BETA and frankly for doing SOA development it's the best environment available.
    Basically just posting a "me too" - agree with everything you said. We have also been using 8.1 Platform since beta and have a couple content disemination portals in production with it. They're not amazon.com in terms of traffic - but are proving very stable.

    Yes - there have been problems accompanied by frustrating days and weeks even, and Platform requires top-end development workstations; but this product does not deserve a bad rap by any means. Considering the complexity of the processes beneath the hood, Workshop in particular is a very well engineered piece of software.

    The entire Java Process Definition capabilities - combined with XMLBean and XQuery integration is extremely cool.

    Of course there have been problems - and continue to be problems. Many of them have been caused by our own ignorance of development environment "best practices" (BEA was slow in releasing any useful documentation on the subject). It would be foolish to think there isn't a significant learning curve attached to adopting the entire platform - but there would be for any BPM/Portal framework.

    So yah - in short - readers of this thread can count us as "happy" too.

    cheers,
    Markus
  25. Low virtual memory[ Go to top ]

    You realize that merely having 1GB doesn't mean that Workshop can use it?

    By default it uses only 256mb - change this in the Workshop.cfg file in the same way as you might for Eclipse, JBuilder etc.
  26. Happiness is in the Simplicity[ Go to top ]

    I was developing with the Workshop product in the 7.0 release with Web Services and was quite happy with the results of the projects. I agree with some of the posts as far as how long it took to build/compile in a development station when the station didn't have the recommended configuration, but even then I was saved from doing extra work in writing code and was able to re-use components much easier. The 8.1 Platform SP2 release is a night and day difference on top of the earlier versions. Many of the frustrations I experienced have been removed. The documentation that was needed is there now in abundance and there are whole solution walk-throughs available in the evaluation guides. For just releasing such a fully scoped product in a short time, I think the product accomplishes the development I need to do much faster and easier than before its existance. Now I can develop Integration applications, Portals, and Web Services all within one easy to use interface, which is more than I can say for other products available.

    Eric
  27. Is ANYONE happy with this product?[ Go to top ]

    Workshop and BEA Platform 8.1 represents a significant boost in developer performance for us. Taking into account the cost of real world enterprise projects a discussion on 512 MB, 1 GB or 2 GB of memory on the developers desk is somewhat misplaced.

    When we manage to utilize the SOA paradigm in workshop along with the pageflow concept and process concept, developer performance boosts beyond the cost-of-memory discussion. Our real-world experience is shorter TTM, less TCO and better more stable and responsive applications.

    Some time ago we experiences the joy of letting eg. xDoclet genereate some of the "boilerplate code" for us. Workshop and platform 8.1 took us another step forward with the controls, flows and processes.

    Bottom line : we are using workshop for real-world applications and benefits from increased developer productivity. Of course there are some issues with this tool as there is with any other except for perhaps Unix VI which runs pretty stable these days, however the productivity is somewhat low in Unix VI for developing and deploying an enterprise application.

    - Anders Mathisen
  28. [snip]

    Both versions have the restriction that applications produced with it are throttled to 5 concurrent connections.

    [snip]
    Is this correct? I read the articles and it seems like they're saying it's the test server underneath WLW that's limited to 5 connections, not the apps developed with WLW. Just want to make sure I understand this post correctly. Any app limited to 5 simultaneous connections would be pretty much useless.

    Thanks!
    ST
  29. Any app limited to 5 simultaneous connections would be pretty much useless.
    I've been a Sun certified J2EE architect for two years now, and I've never worked on a LAN or WAN application that needed a connection pool larger than five in order to be useful.
  30. I've never worked on a LAN or WAN application that needed a connection pool larger than five in order to be useful.

    I believe this kind of restrictions on simultaneous connections are usually network connections (HTTP requests), not database connections.
  31. I believe this kind of restrictions on simultaneous connections are usually network connections (HTTP requests)...
    Sure. So how many simultaneous HTTP connections does it take to make a web application useful? Five doesn't seem severely limiting to me.
  32. Server Limitation Details[ Go to top ]

    Hi Everybody,

    Just wanted to clear up some details. Weblogic Workshop is freely downloadable and has been for some time now. It includes a development license for WebLogic Server and the rest of the platform -- integration server and portal server -- and corresponding development license keys.

    When WLS is started under a development key, it counts distinct IP addresses of incoming requests and stops serving requests after the 5th IP address is seen since the server was started. It's easily subverted by a proxy server, but that's a violation of the license agreement.

    The new editions of Workshop that we're releasing today include a new license key that enables the server to run in a scale-limited production mode. Unlike the dev key, it allows connections from anywhere, but will only process requests from 3 incomming sockets at a time. (It can't be clustered.) This amounts to roughly 3% of the load capacity of an unthrottled Weblogic Server. For typical web apps we find this supports between 5 and 15 conncurrent users, depending on the app of course.

    The $1000 Professional edition lets you use key this for anything you want, including commerial applications, and includes 1 year of dev support. The Free Edition enables you to deploy the scale-limited server for non-commercial or accademic purposes, such as a private blog server, an app for a non-profit, or teaching a class, and doesn't include support.

    The server code is real WLS, not a different app server. If an app deployed under the scale limited key becomes popular, and you want to buy more scale you just upgrade the license, not the server code or the app.

    Our goal is simply to make it easier and more affordable for individual developers to experiment with the tools, and deploy low-traffic apps inexpensively. We haven't changed our busines model at all: we still primarily sell server software to ISVs and companies that need high-availability systems deployed on clusters. We just want to make it easier for people to kick the tires.

    -George Snelling
    Product Manager
    WebLogic Workshop
  33. Server Limitation Details[ Go to top ]

    Unlike the dev key, it allows connections from anywhere, but will only process requests from 3 incomming sockets at a time. (It can't be clustered.)
    So, does this mean if a web browser has 3 open connections to the HTTP server, for say images and whatnot, it will only service those 3 connections, or in affect, that one user?

    Or is it 3 IP addresses?
  34. Server Limitation Details[ Go to top ]

    The scale-limited production key doesn't care about the source IP address. I'm pretty sure individual http sessions open a single socket to the server, but one of the wls jocks who is deeper in the http dispatch code would have to confirm.

    If the socket threshold is reached a message is logged to the console so that the admin notices. Other browsers still connect to the server and wait for their requests to be processed or until they time out. Inside, the server is processessing individual requests exactly as fast as it always has, it just processes fewer of them at one time than normal.

    We've been using the scale-limited key for an internal spec tracking app for a couple of months now. The user perception is that the first 5 to 10 people who connect concurrently are completely unaware that it's not a production server. Users that come in above that limit report slow response, not errors. The more concurrent users the slower the response. Best way to think of it is ordinary WLS running at about 3% load capacity.

    Oh, and I should mention that the scale-limited production key doesn't really have anything to do with Workshop per se -- it applies to WLS itself. So if you're developing on WLS 8.1 using Eclipse, IntelliJ, EMACs or whatever, it works the same.
      
    George Snelling
    PM, WebLogic Workshop
  35. RE: Server Limitation Details[ Go to top ]

    When WLS is started under a development key, it counts distinct IP addresses of incoming requests and stops serving requests after the 5th IP address is seen since the server was started.

    [snip]

    The server code is real WLS, not a different app server. If an app deployed under the scale limited key becomes popular, and you want to buy more scale you just upgrade the license, not the server code or the app.
    Thanks for the clarification, George! This is what I thought. Certainly for smaller departmental, internal applications WLW will work very well. I'm used to working on much larger applications that need to serve 1000s of users so this is great news for me.

    ST
  36. Having once worked on the Access team at Microsoft, I can attest to the fact that there are tons of small departmental level apps that help business go 'round. Many of these are small enough to be able to be powered by an Access Database (probably even more restricting on concurrent users than our 5 connection limit).

    The problem with these Apps is that if they grow up, they often need to be completely re-written. Part of the beauty of this SKU is that writing these departmental apps on WebLogic Professional Edition means they won't have to be re-written if they grow up.

    Also, in a side note (responding to a part of an earlier post). I played around with VS.net a little while ago, and I'm not sure the MS tools for .net really have the lead over java tools. There are a lot of really cool things going on in tools like Workshop, IntelliJ, and Eclipse.

      --Will
        Principal Technologist
        BEA Systems
  37. off topic ..[ Go to top ]

    Brian: I've been a Sun certified J2EE architect for two years now, and I've never worked on a LAN or WAN application that needed a connection pool larger than five in order to be useful.

    That's quite an assertion. To get the maximum throughput out of a system, you will quite often require a larger connection pool than "5" .. how did you come to this assertion?

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  38. off topic ..[ Go to top ]

    how did you come to this assertion?
    I don't do b2c apps. They're the hogs.
  39. off topic ..[ Go to top ]

    Cameron: how did you come to this assertion?
    Brian: I don't do b2c apps. They're the hogs.

    I'm not looking for sweeping generalizations. Web sites that pull from high latency (anything over 1ms) blocking data sources will need to run multiple threads to even soak up a 1xCPU server, let alone 2xCPU or 4xCPU servers. Multiple threads stuck in blocking I/O with a data source require multiple connections. Quite often I see over 40 threads required for applications running on 2xCPU architectures with a similar number of connections in the pool (if the application primarily uses one pool.) B2B, B2C, regular old dynamic web sites, etc.

    I was wondering though what basis you had for the claim, whether you had a particular technical reason for suggesting it, such as the result of extensive tuning and load testing.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  40. off topic ..[ Go to top ]

    I was wondering though what basis you had for the claim, whether you had a particular technical reason for suggesting it, such as the result of extensive tuning and load testing.
    You certainly are off topic. You've been dwelling on optimization and performance, while Stanley, Lasse, and I are discussing utility. We're thinking about "useless" (Stanley's accusation) versus "useful" (mine). Dion began by noting that this "edition is suited for small or departmental deployment" and that the professional version is cheap. I suppose you haven't cared about small deployment in awhile.
  41. off topic ..[ Go to top ]

    You certainly are off topic. You've been dwelling on optimization and performance, while Stanley, Lasse, and I are discussing utility. We're thinking about "useless" (Stanley's accusation) versus "useful" (mine). Dion began by noting that this "edition is suited for small or departmental deployment" and that the professional version is cheap. I suppose you haven't cared about small deployment in awhile.

    OK, point taken. I was just curious what the background of your comment was; I wasn't sure what you meant by "useful."

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  42. Workshop is cool[ Go to top ]

    We have been using workshop for more than 7 months now and from my own experience its an excellent tool. I agree it requires a lot of horse power. I myself have a 2gb Ram and 2ghz cpu so i can never really understand what a 512mb ram developer would go through, but can imagine

    Building a portal is easy with workshop. This tool can be adapted by non J2EE developers quickly. Editor is not so advanced yet!. Buiding Integration frameworks is simplified. Making db controls and web service controls and for SOA this is the best tool.

    Above all, debugging capablities are the best.
  43. Don´t be mistaken[ Go to top ]

    People, this thread is about BEA Weblogic Workshop, a proprietary development tool, with some lock in features and a HUGE memory hunger. It's NOT about BEA Weblogic Server, Jboss or any other App Server.

    Salute,

    Rodolfo Rothganger
    EDS
  44. I have tried Workshop and I dont not like it. I think BEA is wasting time and money on workshop project I hope BEA is smart enough to join eclipse and netbeans project.

    I would actually like BEA to buy Intellij since love that IDE.

    I wish BEA would release a pluging for Eclipse where you can do remote debugging and add other tools for weblogic.