Sun announces peace with Microsoft: Legal and technical

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News: Sun announces peace with Microsoft: Legal and technical

  1. Sun Microsystems announced that it has settled with Microsoft. The settlement will involve a payment of $1.95 billion to Sun. Sun also plans to cut 3,300 jobs after it issued an earnings warning. Jonathan Schwartz, previously executive vice president of software, has been promoted to president and COO.

    Broad pact with Microsoft
    The goal of the technical collaboration with Microsoft is to improve interoperability between the companies' respective products, said McNealy.

    "This is a big day for customers. Everywhere we go customers say we have Sun and Microsystems technology and we need interoperability. We need peace," McNealy said in a statement.

    McNealy and Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer will provide further details on both the legal settlement and technical collaboration at a press conference in San Francisco this morning.

    The ten-year technical collaboration will encompass several facets, designed to improve information sharing between the companies’ server and desktop products.

    The companies will share technical information to allow their respective security products, namely their directories and identity servers, to work together. The agreement could also be expanded to email and database software, the companies said.

    Sun will also license access to the Windows desktop communications protocols under a program initiated as a result of Microsoft’s settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice in 2002.

    Microsoft will be allowed to continue to provide technical support for customers using its Java virtual machine, the software needed to run Java programs. The companies also vowed to work to improve technical collaboration between Sun’s Java software and Microsoft’s .Net programming technology.
    In the news

    Sun Press Release: Microsoft and Sun Microsystems enter broad cooperation agreement

    Sun settles with Microsoft, announces layoffs

    Sun settles with Microsoft, cuts 3,300 jobs

    Microsoft and Sun settle Java suit in £870m pact

    Sun settles with MS for $2bn (ish)

    Sun settles with Microsoft, announces 3,300 job cuts

    Sun reaches deal with Microsoft
    Editors Note: Of course we had predicted this before in our cartoon :)

    Threaded Messages (71)

  2. I had to check the date on the article three times to make sure this wasn't an April Fool's joke.
  3. They're just trying to trick us by posting Mark Fleury's comments the day before yesterday and this one today. Very confusing isn't it - it's like a 3-day long April fools!

    So does this mean the Borg have finally won, will we be Microsoft Certified Java Developers soon and boy will this fill slashdot.

    :-)
  4. i can't believe....[ Go to top ]

    this is April 2 joke ??
  5. Sun and Microsystems[ Go to top ]

    Hmmm Scott having problems saying Microsoft
  6. Sun and Microsoft[ Go to top ]

    The old saying goes "If you can't beat them, join them." ...
  7. We'll see how it turns out in reality, but from the P.O.V. of the press releases, it looks very promising. I'll miss Scott's wisecracks about Microsoft though ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  8. We'll see how it turns out in reality, but from the P.O.V. of the press releases, it looks very promising. I'll miss Scott's wisecracks about Microsoft though ;-)Peace,Cameron PurdyTangosol, Inc.Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
    I'm sure Larry is more than willing to pick up the slack.
  9. This is THE news.

    :-)

    Lets hope things turn out better and easier for the technical people.
  10. I think it's good news (expecially for Sun).
    More money for research and less spent for lawyers.
    <>>
    Nice words, just waiting for facts (from Sun).
  11. Remember that TSS cartoon?[ Go to top ]

    Conspiracy: http://theserverside.com/cartoons/GatesMcNealy2/GatesMcNealy2.html

    2005 is coming
  12. Yet another Microsoft settlement[ Go to top ]

    Has anyone else noticed that Microsoft is always able to settle lawsuits by bribing the company that initiated the lawsuit and then cross-licensing technology?

    It's a pattern we've seen again and again: Borland, Apple, AOL.

    What's funny is that in all of these cases, the company funding the lawsuit was struggling to become or remain profitable. An infusion of cash from Microsoft, plus an end to the lawyer fees, always looks appealing.

    I actually think it's a good thing that Sun is recognizing the fact that the development landscape isn't exactly an either/or proposition. I just think it's interesting that Microsoft has been able to repeatedly employ this strategy.

    Kito D. Mann
    Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
    http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
  13. Business Pattern[ Go to top ]

    How about describing this as a pattern?

    name: Payoff Pattern
    problem: After using extorsion to gain a monopoly, people will fight back.
    solution: Since the battle will take its toll on both parties, a bribe will often settle things.
    consequences: Monopolistic tendencies can continue
  14. I think this is very good news. For all the skeptics, It means Java is here to stay, and we will see better support for it from Microsoft and interoperability with .NET.
  15. .JAVA[ Go to top ]

    ...enemy at the gates...
  16. best thing for every body (at least now)[ Go to top ]

    I think this is the maximum thing that sun could obtain in court (or a little more). And the minimum thing that Microsoft will be forced to do if they stay in court (except money which seems not be a big problem for Microsoft).
    Just waits to see what will happen to MJVM and sun JRE in windows platform.
  17. I think this is very bad news for the Java community. I think Microsoft is trying to kill Java dead. Maybe that's why Sun was hesitating to open source their JVM implementation.
  18. ...[ Go to top ]

    How exactly can it be bad?

    M$ will now lure J2EE developers to .Net. They aren't going to do that by promoting C# or killing Java.
  19. Great news!![ Go to top ]

    Great News... Time for us all to switch over the http://theserverside.net
    :)
  20. MSFT is evil[ Go to top ]

    MSFT just have the money to throw and they can buy anything . But they need to stoped . You should feel shame that you advocate for an evil alliance ( MSFT/.Net )
  21. What I would like to see[ Go to top ]

    - Visual Studio for J2EE so that I can stop writing monkey code to comply with J2EE spec and START writing business logic.

    - ASP.NET webforms as an alternative to JSP/Servlet/Struts

    - ADO.NET based persistence pattern that does require the Entity bean style junk

    - IIS dead

    - IIS dead again (takes a lot to kill IIS)

    - Highly paid software engineers. I'm tired of open-source. Doesn't pay as well. Heck, doesn't pay at all!
  22. tired of open source?[ Go to top ]

    Which open source project have you been contributing to?
  23. Unlikely[ Go to top ]

    Should sun opensource Java, now that it[Java] is paying off. very Unlikely
  24. This settlement, announced on the same day as Sun report a loss for the twelfth quarter in a row, of $800 million and 3,300 lay-offs, actually made Sun stock rise. Imagine what would have happened to Sun stock if they not had drawn this trick out of the bag :)

    But it will not help Sun in the long run. The next quarter will show an even greater loss, and then the next, and so on.

    Does this mean that Java VM 1.4/1.5 will come to Windows developed by Microsoft? Remember that MS 1.1 VM is still the fastest, smallest, and less buggy of all VM.. Remember that it was not Sun that developed the VM for Linux..

    Sun apologizes..
    http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/computing/12/10/sun.apology.idg/

    Sp maybe Java's memory problem on Windows will be solved at last!

    So in the future when you are in Visual Studio and are going to compile, you will get the question: Do you want to compile to CLR or Java VM? :))

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  25. myth[ Go to top ]

    Remember that MS 1.1 VM is still the fastest, smallest, and less buggy of all VM..
    so.. what are you dreaming of at night?
  26. purely a personal experience[ Go to top ]

    Microsoft has not done anything with the VM since 6 years back. The only benchmark I have is this from Javaworld, "Microsoft still is crashing the party and blowing out all the candles when it comes to Java performance".
    http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html

    But if I open an applet for instance to play a game of chess, with Sun 1.4, it feels like the computer is taken over by some daemon, everything is slow, the curser shivers and the machine act like it are in some state of anxiety. But with the new agreement between Sun and MS maybe we will see what MS can do with Java today.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  27. purely a personal experience[ Go to top ]

    Rolf: But if I open an applet for instance to play a game of chess, with Sun 1.4, it feels like the computer is taken over by some daemon, everything is slow, the curser shivers and the machine act like it are in some state of anxiety. But with the new agreement between Sun and MS maybe we will see what MS can do with Java today.

    Unfortunately, your description is not unlike my own. Adobe Acrobat plug-in is the same way (and is one of the few programs still capable of locking up and crashing Windows XP). You would think that for "consumer" experience, these companies could learn how to package up something in a respectable manner. It's almost like the plug-in part was a project dumped onto the "latest hire" ....

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  28. HTML rules[ Go to top ]

    Yes at least we agree about Acrobat. I wonder what is the problem? I always hate pdf pages. On the other hand HTML comes up nice and fast, is responsive, scrolls smoothly and has a small footprint (comparatively). HTML is better than word even; the first thing I do when I get a word file is to save it as HTML. Can't say what exactly it is but the browser feels better.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  29. purely a personal experience[ Go to top ]

    well, i have to agree that the Microsoft Java compiler and JVM was really extremely fast, it was really really impressive. However, i only used it for projects where the clients required certain windows specific functionality (e.g. interprocess communication with other windows programs)

    However, for enterprise computing all this snappyness and speedyness is rather irrelevant, compared to API compliance, true WORA and such. This is what counts, at least in the organisations i was involved with.

    anyway, this whole MS and Sun love affair is pretty surprising to me (and i am sure not only for me)
    joe
  30. purely a personal experience[ Go to top ]

    anyway, this whole MS and Sun love affair is pretty surprising to me (and i am sure not only for me)joe
    Simple. If you cant win, "Live to fight another Day"
  31. the mystery[ Go to top ]

    "What do women want?" (Freud)

    "What does Microsoft want?"

    I am surprised that you don't see it. What is the only thing that could make everybody happy?

    I leave it as a riddle until tomorrow. :)

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  32. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/8352708.htm

    MS is going down due to linux we are finding more customer prefers linux on Servers and now its desktop. Sun has the silver bullet with their JDS desktop, so does Novell Suse, Mandrake, Xandros to name a few. We are running Kernel 2.6 with KDE 2.6 this dekstop runs like a champ faster than Windoze XP and no Blue screen of death(XP is a piece of crap OS). And yes java just runs great in linux...eclipse and IntelliJ runs great and so does Weblogic 8.1 by the way we use Open office over crappy over priced M$ office.
    Fire Fox is the best browser out there.


    M$ is finished and they know it ... they have used the dead Zombie SCO as along as they could.
  33. Suns Java VP resigned today[ Go to top ]

    Suns Java VP resigned today

    Read the story

    Boy - is that personal or what ?
  34. useful for xBox[ Go to top ]

    Well at least you understand what wishful thinking is!

    But if you think Linux ever is going to compete on the desktop consider that there is already a Unix OS that have a decent stable and functional Office package that has not been able to make the slightest dent in MS market- Macintosh.

    Writing this with Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition adapted as a work station running on a Black Dell PowerEdge 3,2GHz with 1GB ram looking forward to 64 bit Longhorn with Avalon/XAML.

    I do have Linux on my xBox though!
    (so I can browse the Internet with my TV :)

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  35. useful for xBox[ Go to top ]

    "But if you think Linux ever is going to compete on the desktop consider that there is already a Unix OS that have a decent stable and functional Office package that has not been able to make the slightest dent in MS market- Macintosh."

    There is a good reason why Apple hasn´t made a dent into the MS market: price. As long as Macs cost considerably more than their PC equivalents, they wont make a dent into the PC market. And somehow I dont think Apple really cares to much about it.

    Linux on the other hand has all the signs of a traditional market disruptor: low price, high accessibility, maybe not "there yet" with regards to user-friendliness, but getting there and thereabouts at an amazing pace, while eating up market share from the low-end where it is "good enough".
    MS should know a thing or two about "good enough" products..

    Do you think the "tiger" economies of eastern asia, who are not yet locked into any specific platform will shell out money on licenses, or make their own versions of readily accessible software such as Linux? And.. there are quite a few potential users living in India, China and other countries..
  36. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    Wille: "Macs cost considerably more than their PC equivalents"

    Actually the eMac with 1 GHz PowerPC G4/OS X Panther cost considerable less than a equivalent Intel PC thanks to the build in screen. When you buy the OS together with the computer the OS cost is negligible.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  37. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    When you buy the OS together with the computer the OS cost is negligible.
    Walmart sells "Microtel SYSWM8001 PC" using Sun's Java Desktop System, for less than $300. If the difference is %25-%30, it is NOT negligible.
  38. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    Walmart "Microtel SYSWM8001 PC AMD 1.6 GHz Duron processor can not in any way be considered eqvivalent with the 1 GHz PowerPC G4 processor. Also it does not include a screen. So I think it is the Mac that is 25-30% cheaper. Why would anyone buy the low profile SYSWM8001 PC when they can buy a classy Macintosh?

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  39. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    Why would anyone buy the low profile SYSWM8001 PC when they can buy a classy Macintosh?
    Can you send me a link to a site where I can buy your classy Mac for less than a low-end Linux machine?
    Thanks!
  40. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    Macintosh eMac $799
    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70202/wo/3Q4ZXN7S2w0T3MOhqgDxTfykqQG/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.0.0.0.1.0

    Walmart Linux computer $298
    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?cat=3951&dept=3944&product_id=2592736&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A132690

    Dont forget to add the value of a 17-inch flat CRT display to the Walmart PC price of $298.00.
    The eMac is a far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far, better computer.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  41. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    As an MS "fan", you of all people should understand that its not about "better", its about "good enough".
    For the average indian, the saving of a few $100 is a _lot_ and might be the difference between having a computer and not having a computer.
    "Better" or "best" doesnt matter in these circumstances, its about "good enough" at a price that is affordable to less financially affluent people.
  42. Macintosh eMac $799http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70202/wo/3Q4ZXN7S2w0T3MOhqgDxTfykqQG/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.0.0.0.1.0Walmart Linux computer $298http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?cat=3951&dept=3944&product_id=2592736&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A132690Dont forget to add the value of a 17-inch flat CRT display to the Walmart PC price of $298.00.The eMac is a far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far, better computer.RegardsRolf Tollerud
    Acer America Displays 17" .25 1280x1024 Flat Scr.CRT = US$ 107,00
    http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/59

    So Walmart PC $298,00 + Acer screen $107,00 = $405,00, what is about half as much as an eMac...

    Regards,
    Henrique Steckelberg
  43. Linux at the desktop[ Go to top ]

    Ok, the Walmart PC is cheaper then. But let us all have a silent minute for the people in the world that are so poor that they have to buy one of this ech.."Walmart SYSWM8001 PC" instead of a "top of the line classy Macintosh with Unix OS X Panther" for 799 dollar. (also they could have added 40 dollar to get Windows XP..)

    Silence.....

    After the buy, how much time you do you think they will loose then?
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  44. Linux at the desktop[ Go to top ]

    Ok, the Walmart PC is cheaper then. But let us all have a silent minute for the people in the world that are so poor that they have to buy one of this ech.."Walmart SYSWM8001 PC" instead of a "top of the line classy Macintosh with Unix OS X Panther" for 799 dollar. RegardsRolf Tollerud
    Let's make 1000 minutes of silence for the big corporate which decided to deploy 1000 computers, being able to save $400.000... ;)

    Regards,
    Henrique Steckelberg
  45. Henrique: "Let's make 1000 minutes of silence for the big corporate which decided to deploy 1000 computers, being able to save $400.000... ;)"

    Yes, like Munich!

    Munich chose Linux for political reasons. They could have stayed with Microsoft for $23.7 million. The cost is $35.7 million to go to Linux...

    But the process is not going so well,

    Munich Migration ..rebellion in the ranks
    http://www.linuxworld.com/story/43734.htm
    __________________________________________

    A sure win for Apple to go x86

    Apple has surprised us before when they changed to Unix. If Apple decide move to x86 the price difference will vanish..

    "I purchased a Mac because I was sick and tired of "tinkering" with my computer, constantly tweaking settings, ensuring everything worked properly. I set my PowerBook up 4 months ago, and guess what... It just works."

    You never know.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  46. Macintosh cost less than Linux PC[ Go to top ]

    Macintosh eMac $799 - Walmart PC price of $298.00 + $100 screen
    Given these prices above, I'd like the answer your earlier question:
    Why would anyone buy the low profile SYSWM8001 PC when they can buy a classy Macintosh?
    The same reason why not all of us drive a Ferrari! ;-)
  47. Macintosh, Linux, Windows[ Go to top ]

    The comparison is not fair. The hardware of the SYSWM8001 PC is so much inferior. If you have the same quality of hardware, the prices of a Macintosh, Linux PC or Windows XP is about the same. (a good example of the forces of free market).

    In spite of that Apple has not succeeded to budge Microsoft. That means that in distant future when the Linux is up to Apple quality, it still will not budge MS either and the time is running out. Neither Apple nor Linux has anything like Longhorn in the cellar.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  48. Macintosh, Linux, Windows[ Go to top ]


    Neither Apple nor Linux has anything like Longhorn in the cellar.
    <
    Why is it that MS proponents always use the 'Longhorn-card'? Longhorn this, longhorn that, like it is some holy grail. At least by reciting this mantra, you acknowledge that Microsoft needs an edge to compete against Linux and other open source threats.

    So the time is running out? Some of the features supposedly included in Longhorn were originally planned to be implemented 10 years ago. 10 years ago they said the new file system is ready in 2 years, and still we are 2 years away from it 10 years later. Looking at that record, it is Microsoft who is running out of time and Longhorn will be Shorthorn when it comes out after a couple of years.

    Open source has all the time in the world. It is in no hurry to create something like Longhorn because it does not have to. It is simply not going to go away regardless of Longhorns and others. It will grow in importance just because of monopolies, high cost commodity software, and even due to political reasons. Microsoft is just accelerating the open source movement with its own existence.
  49. what is today[ Go to top ]

    Tero: "Why is it that MS proponents always use the 'Longhorn-card'"?

    I don't need to use the 'Longhorn-card', as I said above:

    "Writing this with Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition adapted as a work station running on a Black Dell PowerEdge 3,2GHz with 1GB ram..

    How many years do you think desktop Apple/Linux need to reach this level- if ever?

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  50. what is today[ Go to top ]

    ok, so what DO women want?
  51. the CLR everywhere[ Go to top ]

    Jamie: "Linux clusters :)"

    The meaning of this little detour in the discussion was that Linux is hungry for the desktop and believes that if it can only improve a little in that area then, then! I have only humbly pointed out that this combination of Unix + user-friendliness already exits on the desktop and even for a reasonable price. That Linux on the other hand will be and already are big business on the server are no big secret exactly- think, to take down the mighty Sun, imagine. Nobody though that that was possible!
    _____________________________________________________

    Back to the yesterday question of "What do the women want"? the women in this case being Sun and Microsoft. Nobody has given the right answer so the time is up!

    Microsoft do not care about the Java vs C# stuff really, Microsoft wants the CLR everywhere! Sun have realized that they can not win this fight and are going to save what can be saved. So they divide the field between so that Sun gets the status and MS the money! :)

    MS (and Sun) develop a way to compile to IL and run on CLR the really big Java app servers like Sun One, Weblogic and Websphere enabling them to kick ass and run faster than anything today on both Solaris and Windows.

    Then the market will be split between them so,
    1) Sun keeps the really big enterprise mission critical projects and the role as "ultimate dean and master of computer-science".
    2) MS keep the small and medium sized projects where most of the money is.

    Think that is impossible? Think again, Ximian already has Eclipse running on CLR, and what is Mainsoft doing..

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  52. the CLR everywhere[ Go to top ]

    Back to the yesterday question of "What do the women want"? the women in this case being Sun and Microsoft. Nobody has given the right answer so the time is up!Microsoft do not care about the Java vs C# stuff really, Microsoft wants the CLR everywhere! Sun have realized that they can not win this fight and are going to save what can be saved. So they divide the field between so that Sun gets the status and MS the money! :)MS (and Sun) develop a way to compile to IL and run on CLR the really big Java app servers like Sun One, Weblogic and Websphere enabling them to kick ass and run faster than anything today on both Solaris and Windows. Then the market will be split between them so, 1) Sun keeps the really big enterprise mission critical projects and the role as "ultimate dean and master of computer-science".2) MS keep the small and medium sized projects where most of the money is.Think that is impossible? Think again, Ximian already has Eclipse running on CLR, and what is Mainsoft doing..RegardsRolf Tollerud
    This smells a lot like Embrace, Extend and Extinct, like MS is so used to do. I really, really hope it is not, but what less could we expect from MS?

    Regards,
    Henrique Steckeberg
  53. H, I really think you are a nice person but you do need to be a little more cynical.

    How its works:

    1) Little innovative company gets good idea and shows some preliminary results.
    2) 1,2 or more big companies come together and make better, faster, smaller product with all means possible, including more resources, more money, hiring away from the opponents, patents, re-implementing, stealing, cheating, work very very hard, etc, etc, some legal some not!
    3) Little company (=Open Source) gets left in the dust.

    You can condemn it as much as you want, but this is the system that has brought more welfare to millions of people all over the world than any other system.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  54. H, I really think you are a nice person but you do need to be a little more cynical.How its works:1) Little innovative company gets good idea and shows some preliminary results.2) 1,2 or more big companies come together and make better, faster, smaller product with all means possible, including more resources, more money, hiring away from the opponents, patents, re-implementing, stealing, cheating, work very very hard, etc, etc, some legal some not! 3) Little company (=Open Source) gets left in the dust.You can condemn it as much as you want, but this is the system that has brought more welfare to millions of people all over the world than any other system.RegardsRolf Tollerud
    Sorry Rolf, but I am one of the few who still believe we can do it the right way and not step upon other as a way to get richer. Pity there are other people who thinks otherwise, but I know that's the way it works, and for sure I won't change that. Anyway, the same "system" that has brought welfare to millions has also killed millions and put millions to famine. I don't think we can call this system fair and just, when money is all that counts in the end, when you can buy your way out of anything, just name the price. That's why MS will go on stepping on everybody else. Pity that some people will even applaud them.

    PS: Open Source is here to stay, in case you haven't noticed it yet. But this statement doesn't have anything to do with my convictions expressed above, it it just simple market law at work.

    Regards,
    Henrique Steckelberg
  55. Hmmm ... Does Microsoft agree? http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/software/story/0,10801,91963,00.html
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/

    Is the world coming to an end? First the settlement now this. Good thing I still have my Y2k shelter and supplies. :)
  56. corruption.

    You know, sometimes I wonder why so many US citizens want to tear down and destroy such a big and important company, one of the most well-run in the world, a fantastic asset taking a lots and lots of cash to the home-country.

    If I didn't knew better, I would have though that it was one of the chapters or the first signs on "The Decline and Fall of The American (oops- Roman) Empire by Gibbon.

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  57. corruption or bribe?[ Go to top ]

    bribe
    n.
    "Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
    Something serving to influence or persuade."
  58. You mean like companies that get in the way of the American Dream (owning one's own business?)

    Nothing wrong in giving back to the community.
  59. survival of the fittest[ Go to top ]

    To try to destroy the strongest and most fit for survival is a crime not only against nature but to the thousands and millions that would otherwise end up with inferior products.

    Example of inferior product IMHO

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  60. I'm quit surprised with the terminology...
    What are we speaking about here ? Informatics ? Or species evolution ?
    Is this the base of a new school of... "Applied Darwinian Computing" ?

    I'm afraid i'm not so sure as you seems to be that what is good for the strongest (or fittest, or smartest) is good for the community at large.

    But maybe i'm an idealist :)

    Please forgive me for any misuse of english.

    Regards,
    Martin Van Aken
  61. Next, M$ will become J2EE Certified![ Go to top ]

    Is the world coming to an end?
    Man! I love my job! You never know what's going to happen when you wake up in the morning!

    :-) Next thing that we're going to hear: Microsoft to become J2EE certified. :-)

    Even though I'm extremely surprised by Microsoft's Open Source move (really emotional moment for some of us, snif snif...), I still think that they're playing a "labeling" game, just to be able to say, "we also have open source projects!". At the end, that's good for the community. When the M$ developers taste the "open source" M$ will have hard time to control them :-))))))

    The best way of dealing with the fear is to face up to it... That's what M$ is doing with "open source"... It may well be a guiney-pig project!
  62. the CLR everywhere[ Go to top ]

    Think that is impossible? Think again, Ximian already has Eclipse running on CLR, and what is Mainsoft doing
    Rolf,

    You're wrong again! ;-). Having Eclipse running on CLR, or Java code running on CLR (Mainsoft's case) helps only Java to become more popular. At the end of the day, all you have is Eclipse's .NET version. So what? I already have Eclipse running on Windows anyway.

    You still don't understand that the key would be to have .NET environment on different hardware and OS. Which seems to be impossible given Microsoft's position. That's why Java/J2EE is the Enterprise platform and that's why Microsoft .NET is nowhere near.

    I still have an old DCOM book (from late 90s) talking about how DCOM will be the universal distributed component system because they were porting it on Unix. I guess I missed the next episode... ;-). Oh no! Wait! The next episode is .NET! We'll have it on *nix, sure!

     - Yagiz -
  63. some people are hard to convince[ Go to top ]

    Yagiz: The next episode is .NET! We'll have it on *nix, sure!

    From the Munich migration to Linux project, you have to trust me on this or I find the link to you tomorrow:
     
    "350 servers with Mono.NET serving 150 000 users"

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  64. what is today[ Go to top ]

    http://www.beowulf.org/

    http://www.linuxclustersinstitute.org/

    Linux clusters :)
  65. what is today[ Go to top ]

    So what?

    Yes for a very small niche (high end number cruching, etc), this is VERY cool. It was little practical applications in the busienss world. Most Biz functions (or even my desktop functions) do not lend themselves to parrallel processing.
  66. MS 1.1 VM? Yeah! Sure![ Go to top ]

    Remember that MS 1.1 VM is still the fastest, smallest, and less buggy of all VM.
    Yeah! My grand-mother thinks that radio is better than Internet... That's what happens when you live in the past...
  67. My Opinion[ Go to top ]

    Yah this is a new step of agreement, because Sun want Microsoft money, and Microsoft dont want to lose .NET market where in my country everyone are try to swith to Java. Microsoft will lose the market if everyone develop Java apps on Linux which are going to happen now.

    Remember Mc Neally wording about "Open Source is our friend" that is to make sure that Sun are afraid loose his community. If he said, we will keep our technology in our control until our company bangkrupt, and hopefully the buyer of the Sun is not charging Java SDK US$ 1000.

    What happen if he say like this:
    How the hell are you. I own this company, I open this company. and this is my crown jewel. I dont like IBM, that forking my Java. and I can get money from him. But from Microsoft. see how billion is it? this mean Bill Gates is not the smart one.

    Do all you guys, dont play with me, I am the leader of you?

    and guys..
    can you see this, this is a correlation between TSS cartoon, statement not to open sourcing it, and IBM hidden agenda with SWT.
  68. Frans Opinion[ Go to top ]

    Microsoft paid voluntarily 2B where they could have opted to pay 1B. That means they expect to win something.

    Frans: "this mean Bill Gates is not the smart one"

    Do you know what wishful thinking is?

    Regards
    Rolf Tollerud
  69. European Commision's sanction[ Go to top ]

    That means they expect to win something
    Maybe they're trying not to loose something. I think the biggest reason of this settlement is the European Commision's sanction on Microsoft's monopolist activities...
    Europe dared. They are afraid that the US may follow. ;-)
  70. War makes strange bedfellows.[ Go to top ]

    I am surpised only two people have mentioned Linux in this thread. IMHO the reason Sun and M$ have settled is that they have realised the threat to both their core business that is Linux. A lot of medium size companies are now deploying more and more on Linux rather than expensive and slower Sun boxes. Also more and more and more people are running Linux on their desktop.

    Better to join forces againts this threat than to continue a battle that Sun lost a long time ago.

    David
  71. That's it. Open-source Java now![ Go to top ]

    Sun is now sleeping with the enemy. I've had it with Sun now. Very sad. It is now time to take Java out of Sun's hand and put it in the hands of open source. Unlike Sun which desperately needed money to remain alive and hence had to trade with the devil, Open source does not have any such compulsions.
  72. I agree. This is the beginning of the end for Sun. All their conviction, efforts and strong words over the last few years have been eaten. They have lost integrity and have been losing the edge with Java for some time.

    Open source projects at Apache-Jakarta and source forge make more industry splash than the movers and shakers at Sun. Its a pity but I feel they have lost touch and now they have sold out.

    It's too much for developers to swallow. Java and J2EE is now in big trouble unless we can open source it ASAP.

    Maybe out of the ashes of Sun will evolve Java's successor as Java is turned over as a Microsoft registered trademark... I never thought I'd see the day...

    VERY SAD!