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News: Eclipse M8 Close-Up

  1. Eclipse M8 Close-Up (24 messages)

    Bill Dudney has a new column on Eclipse. In the first piece of his new column, he discusses his Eclipse M8 likes and dislikes. He finds a bunch of new features that are not in the release notes.

    Introduction
    As a kick off for this new column I figured I'd go over some of the good, bad and ugly in the new Eclipse M8 drop. I have been using M8 for two weeks now and I've accumulated a lot of notes of what I like and don't like in this latest of the drops before we get 3.0 final. Over all I am really impressed with this release. I went through the release notes and tried to comment on each aspect of what was documented as well as a couple of nice things that I found that are not in the release notes.
    Read: ECLIPSE SPECIAL: Bill Dudney Looks at Eclipse M8 Close-Up

    Threaded Messages (24)

  2. Eclipse M8 Close-Up[ Go to top ]

    Eclipse M8 has many problems of performance and memory consuming. Using this command line has helped:

    eclipse.exe -Xmx256m -Xms128m -Djava.endorsed.dirs=plugins/org.apache.xerces_4.0.13
  3. Setting statup for Mac OS X version[ Go to top ]

    Hi there,

    Is there anywhere inside the Eclipse directory can specify the JVM parameters for startup or have to write a .sh file to launch the Eclipse.jar?

    Thanks

    Neo
  4. Setting statup for Mac OS X version[ Go to top ]

    Hi Neo,

    You have to edit the Info.plist inside the app bundle

    1) Select Eclipse.app in the finder
    2) Context Menu - > Show Package Content
    3) Open Contents/Info.plist
    4) Edit away

    The interesting options are under Root/Eclipse

    Best of luck,

    -bd-
  5. Hi Neo,You have to edit the Info.plist inside the app bundle1) Select Eclipse.app in the finder2) Context Menu - > Show Package Content 3) Open Contents/Info.plist4) Edit awayThe interesting options are under Root/EclipseBest of luck,-bd-
    How to do similar for windows version?

    Thanks, Milan
  6. startup for windows[ Go to top ]

    - make a shortcut to eclipse.exe
    - in shortcut properties -> shortcut tab -> target
    type

    eclipse.exe [platform options] -vmargs [JVM options]

    for all options see eclipse help, look for "Running Eclipse" topic

    HTH

    Bram
  7. Eclipse M8 Close-Up[ Go to top ]

    I have been using m8 since the day it was released. I have found the Ant editor to be extremely slow. Sometimes a second a keystroke slow. It has many nice features but attention has to be paid to the performance now.

    Big projects with lots of source directories cause it to wig out eventually and sometimes crash.

    There are some other minor annoyances. E.g. Ant run. When I run another target it often creates a second (or a third...) launch config. Next time you go to run the build it stops and asks you which config it wants you to use. I haven't quite been able to figure out the rules under which it does this, but it's often enough to be very boring.
  8. Documentation[ Go to top ]

    I hope eclipse 3.0 will have very detailed documentation for users migrating from 2.1
  9. Generally, I like it more than 2.1 and welcome the enhancements, but peformance needs to be improved. It's responsiveness has gone down quite a few notches.
  10. performance and quality[ Go to top ]

    it seems to me that the eclipse project is a good proof that meticulous attention to quality even (and in particular) in the tiny details is still an indispensable prerequisite for projects of significant complexity, such as eclipse's. Otherwise the tiny shortcomings (like extensive and redundant creation of objects) will end up degrading performance to an unacceptable degree (same for code quality). And please nobody tell me that this can easily be fixed afterwards. Open-source-hipness or pattern-conformity (and what else) are no remedy either, if you loose sight of the bottom line.

    christian
  11. bad moon rising[ Go to top ]

    I completely agree with this. I have been an Elipse advocate since at least 1 year and think it's a real good IDE (especially compared to Netbeans or JBuilder). Furthermore I'm working on some commercial plugins for Eclipse and think the product architecture has been very well thought since the beginning.

    Now the bad part...I have been using M8 for a week now and although I find the new look and feel very cool, I must admit that stability and performances have decreased compared to the previous milestone. The M7 was very stable and responsive and keeping a large number of projects opened with dependencies between them was not a problem.

    With the M8 I'm experiencing slowlyness in a lot of areas (a funny example is the "add variable..." button in the "Java Build Path" dialog which takes now 4s to open the corresponding dialog). The build process is slower and the resource management seems buggy

    My only hope is the next milestone will be focused on fixing these performance and stability problems and not on new features.
  12. Eclipse M8 Close-Up[ Go to top ]

    I've just downgraded to M7. I like the new features in M8 but I became rather worried when views started to get out of step with the file system, requiring a restart. It appears that the long feature list has been added at the expense of stability, which is a shame.
  13. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    I was taken aback by the author's continual editorialising about SWT.

    The argument made by the Swing advocates is mostly the same:

    "Swing was buggy/slow/memory hungry on (insert previous JDK here), but now on (insert current JDK), it is perfect."

    This started with JDK 1.2.2 (pre-dating the arrival of SWT) and continues to this day. And yet I have only found 2 Swing applications that don't suck: JGoodies & YourKit Profiler (I'm willing to allow IntelliJ on to that list by public acclaim, although I haven't used it). Every other Swing application I have used I have fervently wanted to port to SWT because they are so horrible (OK, they are equally horrible on every platform, so that's OK because it is a portable horror story).

    SWT exists because Swing didn't do the job it was supposed to. Period. Swing evangelists will say that it does now, but they've been saying that for the last 5 years, so excuse me if I'm fed up with them crying wolf.

    Oh - and anyone else think that abstracting away all of the capabilities of the underlying operating system and then putting them back via an emulation layer is a fundamentally awful way of writing a system?

    /david
  14. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    Oh - and anyone else think that abstracting away all of the capabilities of the underlying operating system and then putting them back via an emulation layer is a fundamentally awful way of writing a system?
    you mean like the jvm does?
  15. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    jvm's abstract the OS. they dont emulate it.

    b
  16. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    jvm's abstract the OS. they dont emulate it.b
    With the occasional notable exception of course: Remember Green Threads?

    As a quick aside, the Swing Text packages alone weigh in at 23 Interfaces & 119 Classes. Just to do text editing. Eeeeooogghh! And to think that all of JDK 1.0.2 fitted into 211 Classes & Interfaces...

    /david
  17. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    Can you name please other apps build with SWT (other than Eclipse itself or the Eclipse plugins or any other work based on Eclipse) so we can see how smooth they work?

    I guess one can write crappy code with SWT too. :)

    Regards,
    Horia
  18. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    Can you name please other apps build with SWT?
    Agreed that there is not a huge selection. One that I do know of is the RSSOwl RSS reader, which is not as slick as eclipse, but still does a nice enough job (at least on Windows - I'd be interested in comments on other platforms).

    /david
  19. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    I can only chime in here: All those people ranting that "There is only one cool Swing APP out there" usually forget that there is only one cool SWT app out there, too.
    You can build good Swing Apps, and you for sure can build crappy SWT apps. If I just look at all the memory leaks in various eclipse plugins (PDE Plugin anyone?) I can only predict if we had SWT as javas GUI Framework of choice, we would have more problems than we do now with Swing.
    IMHO the only reason for SWT in the first place was "real native L&F", and I can't see much of that in the current M8 build anymore. If people would learn just a little more about Swing (like using a proper L&F, and not doing time-consuming work in the Event thread), most Swing apps would be quite usable and nice (at least as usable and nice as an SWT app).
  20. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    (PDE Plugin anyone?)
    Arh, that should have been PMD Plugin - Why are there so many 3-letter-acronyms :)
  21. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    Ah yes, green threads. forgot about those.

    it is interesting to note the java VM model is very similar to that of SWT. abstract the capabilities of the underlying subsystem, delegate where possible, emulate that which you cannot (on a per platform basis).

    b
  22. now that´s easy[ Go to top ]

    Azureus (impossible with SWING i guess)

    and

    DEX (well, not as good, but...)
  23. Editorial on SWT[ Go to top ]

    Hi David,

    My complaints against SWT is more about portability than the greatness of AWT/Swing. I don't really care one way or the other but SWT is slower on the Mac and from what I understand its even worse on Linux. Why should all the vendors in the world have to optimize two windowing systems. I know having competition is good but it really ticks me off to see the write once, run anywhere promise of java being hosed by SWT.

    I would much rather see JDK 1.5 sooner than see apple spend their time making the SWT implementation better.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
  24. I've been using 3.0 since M3 pretty happily. I don't understand all the griping about performance though, it's still a beta! As for native L&F, M8 is most definatly a native L&F, it just has some new widgets. Doesn't Microsoft introduce a new widgeth with every office release that eventually become part of windows? I would think L&F would be more like "anyone who uses the XXX application on XXX platform can use this one too". Many Swing apps fail this test (and the really nice swing apps all implement their own L&F). My final rant on why I like SWT is laytous are SO much easier. I can use GridLayout on 90% of situations! I've griped about not having a gui builder because i've found I never needed one (though instanciations has a pretty nice one).
  25. Don't complain about Swing layout managers, just use forms