BEA Announces Liquid Computing strategy at eWorld 2004

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News: BEA Announces Liquid Computing strategy at eWorld 2004

  1. BEA's Chairmand and CEO, Alfred Chuang launched eWorld 2004 by announcing their new strategy called Liquid Computing. The tagline for the conference is "DEPLOY SOA. NOW." Service-oriented Architecture or SOA is a key component of their Liquid Computing strategy. An article on SOAs was recently posted on the ESJ Web site at http://www.esj.com/news/print.asp?editorialsId=981. Mr. Chuang claimed that while competitors have plans for SOA, BEA has the best SOA platform on the market today, ready for deployment now. More info on BEA's liquid computing strategy can be found at http://www.bea.com.

    Mr. Chuang also reiterated his commitment to making (or keeping?) J2EE the world's dominant programming model.

    Scott Dietzen, CTO for BEA spoke at the keynote address as well. He spoke of BEA's two-pronged approach to create and support standards through standards bodies as well as the open source community, highlighting their recent announcement of open-sourcing Beehive, their WebLogic Workshop framework. He showed off a preview of WebLogic 9 and its new, integrated console built on top of WebLogic Portal. He also gave us a quick tour of Quicksilver, BEA's project for putting together services and other endpoints without writing a line of code.

    Mr. Dietzen finished with a top 10 list of "brilliant" (or not-so) moments in Java history, which included the famous quote, "Java on the server? You're crazy!", and the fact that SOA in Dutch has the same meaning as STD in English. Oops.

    Do you see SOAs in your future? What do you think of BEA's strategy and new liquid computing message?

    Threaded Messages (28)

  2. SOA = Marketing Hype[ Go to top ]

    When you get down to it, nobody can clearly define it, although it seems to loosely boil down to loose coupling of systems and interoperability. Particularly in the context of legacy integration, these are "duh" principles that don't require a "platform" to implement. The most common underlying technology for so-called SOA will probably be SOAP, which is nothing new. So to the average company, SOA really means SOAP combined with good design (granularity, abstraction, etc). Bad code can use an "SOA Platform" to write code that isn't interoperable or loosely coupled.

    Sadly, all too many PHBs will hear this mantra "DEPLOY SOA. NOW.", similar garbage in the industry rags and regurgitation from Gartner. They will begin walking around saying "We need to begin looking at Service Oriented Architecture." They will begin bringing in vendors, believing that SOA is something they need to buy. SOA is nothing more than a marketing push to sell existing technology under a new name, pretending that something about the platform enforces good design principles.

    SOA implementation should really be quite limited - haphazard loose coupling of enterprise applications can be a terrible performance handicap. Depending on the company, you may only need to expose a few, if any services to the outside world. Even then, it's not like you need a tool to get you there. Rare is the company that truly needs rampant SOA deployment.
  3. SOA = Marketing Hype[ Go to top ]

    BEA has the worst mainframe integration tools in this world. If they consider SOA in terms of application and service integration let them clear their own mess first. Alfred might have been talking about integration with Chinese technology not with legacy
  4. The only liquid I need to compute is black, hot and cafeinated.

    The only liquid I need to stop computing is gold or brown or black, cold and contains between 5% and 15% of alchool.

    The only SOA I need already exists... They are called restaurant, bars and cofee shops. Their architecure is sound, their service good and I can easily orient myself to consume these service.

    :-)
  5. IMHO, although it is yet another buzzword, it is actually one that has substance. Your post alluded to the reason why.

    We, as humans, are very comfortable with services and messages. When you go to your restaurant you request a service (you want a burger) through a message that includes data about your order (a double quarter pounder with cheese). You enter into a conversation with an predefined interface that ends after you have paid and received your burger. There may need to be a compensating transaction if you do not find your burger satisfactory.

    SOA is not just an architecture, it is a change in mindset. Describing systems as interrelating services is simply a more natural way to work. It will simplify how business requirements, stated as services required by the business, are translated into working applications. It includes aspects of AOP through intercepts and other mechanisms that simplify how cross-cutting concerns such as security, auditing or quality of service are added into systems.

    Whether or not you agree with the buzzword, SOAs are here to stay. Platforms that facilitate SOA in the least intrusive way will streamline the IT function by allowing application developers to concentrate on providing business functions rather than recoding the wheel everyday.

    Steve Wilkes
    The Middleware Company
  6. SOA is not just an architecture, it is a change in mindset. Describing systems as interrelating services is simply a more natural way to work. It will simplify how business requirements, stated as services required by the business, are translated into working applications. It includes aspects of AOP through intercepts and other mechanisms that simplify how cross-cutting concerns such as security, auditing or quality of service are added into systems.Whether or not you agree with the buzzword, SOAs are here to stay.
    Yes, this is a very old and good thing with a new name and I think it can be very powerfull in combination with AOP and declaratyve programming.
    It become a buzzword, nobody can sell things without marketing, but
    I think articles about technology are more usefull for us than articles about marketing.
  7. JBoss seems to have beaten BEA on this one. Seems they have already deployed "Liquor Computing". For more see this blog entry...
  8. Whatever you think of SOA (yes it is of course hype, and nothing new. I call it Same Old Architecture), it is interesting that the same tune is being sung at eWorld and at TechEd.

    The vast majority of the Architecture track at TechEd is based around Service-Orientation (noone here says SOA... they have dropped the A).

    Dion
  9. ....it is interesting that the same tune is being sung at eWorld and at TechEd.The vast majority of the Architecture track at TechEd is based around Service-Orientation (noone here says SOA... they have dropped the A).Dion
    Yo forum

    "They" have dropped the A (for architecture) because they want the word "Service" to be the main theme...And that is because WebServices is still being hyped.

    I had a discussion with a fellow developer, and the conslusion was clearly:

    "WebServices is just one way of having a SOA. But you can have a SOA without WebServices."

    It is clearly the S-word that messes things up because people think Service is equal to WebService. No way...A WebService is one possible implementation of a service interface, but the same interface could be implemented using the Facade Pattern in a Session EJB.

    So SOA (no I am not stuttering) is just a way (might be a new way to some, but to me) of architecting your system along the business services that must be provided. How you implement these services depends on many things, but it could be WebServices...it could be a session facade EJB...and later on apply a web service (read SOAP) layer to that facade...

    To finish up, the A in SOA is very important...IMHO it is the most important of them all, but it is not very attractive to the marketing people, bacause we had architectures (different kinds) for years...some might say decades..

    Just my thoughts...

    /Henrik
  10. I call it Same Old Architecture
    I like your interpretation of the SOA very much!

    MC
  11. SOA is the same as what???[ Go to top ]

    I disagree with this completely. SOA is the same as what? Have you actually worked on an SOA project? For one, as Ted Neward has been pointing out, there is a big difference between the CORBA days and SOA in the simple fact that Microsoft is involved. This may seem trivial unless you really got to bang your head with the CORBA/COM bridging et al. This also applies to the MOM's etc.

    Secondly, in CORBA the services were not purely declarative (try working with COS Security sometime). Also most CORBA applications running inhouse were oriented towards an application combined with the standard services, not everything running as a service. MOM/EAI could give this argument but the "services" in that model are usually very large enterprise applications with a complex adapter framework connencting them to a purely asynchronous message bus (e.g. Tibco). (The BEA notion of) SOA can support this but also supports very thin, custom developed services with a flexible communication model (sync, async, deferred sync).

    Finally, there were always issues in these other architectures in dealing with the internet. Sure, people are running MOMs and have some 3rd party EDI exchange running. Also, I know with CORBA you could buy the Gateway or Wonderwall and tunnel IIOP through those but the core architecture is really aimed at the internal LAN. . Now web services have a strong history of the internet model and are widely in practice at this time. Sure, some of the standards are still in development but every big player in the software industry is at work on those.
  12. SOA is the same as what???[ Go to top ]

    I disagree with this completely. SOA is the same as what? Have you actually worked on an SOA project? For one, as Ted Neward has been pointing out, there is a big difference between the CORBA days and SOA in the simple fact that Microsoft is involved. bla bla
    I am astonished that you use Corba as a non-SOA example. Corba is merely an infrastructure and dynamic Corba is 100% losely coupled. In my opinion, Corba would be one of the most suitable platforms for any SOA. Also, I wonder why there is such a big fuzz about develeopment tools for SOA - around WSDL, UDDI, Java, EJB and whatnot - while for any enterprise service, development is insignificant compared to the runtime and deployment behavior, manageability, runtime concurrent version support etc of the platform.

    BEA is probably one of the best SOA platforms, not so much because of Workshop and dozens of Wizards, let alone "Liquid computing", but because they have one of the most decent (and maybe the best) clusterable EJB container with decent webservice and messaging support. In fact Gartner's much hyped "enterprise service bus" is little more than a simple MOM product bundled with a tomcat and a SOAP stack. Corba and WebLogic can both go a lot further than that.
  13. SOA is the same as what???[ Go to top ]

    CORBA had some potential however it lacked some key items. As I mentioned, Microsoft was one. If you had anything MS involved in your enterprise and were trying to use CORBA as the SOA, you needed to get some ugly COM/CORBA bridging involved. Even the CORBA vendor interoperability was weak. Writing stringified IOR's to files so that two of the vendor ORBs can communicate was not the optimal approach.

    The core declarative services were very complicated to use. I know one end-user company that spent six months getting up to speed on that huge COS Security spec. Modern day SOA advocates the capability to swap out these services so that if your security only requires a simple service, this is possible.

    The internet model is another decrement. With CORBA, vendor-specific tunneling products were required (e.g. Wonderwall) whereas the underpinnings of SOA are based on independent technologies that are jointly specified (by everyone including Microsoft). And granted, though it always seems the big bucks are within the firewall, B2B is growing and the coolest inventions down the road will probably involve the internet model.

    I would probably agree with your statements on the overhyped tools except that noone really wants to write the XML and the vendors have an opportunity in automating those aspects.
  14. SOA is the same as what???[ Go to top ]

    In my opinion, Corba would be one of the most suitable platforms for any SOA.
    CORBA sucks on a WAN. OMG's firewall specification has been unfinalized for years. SOA remoting is usually a port 80 solution out of necessity, and disparate ORBs have never been worthy of interoperation entirely over port 80. In practice CORBA is almost impossible to tunnel, relay, pipeline, or multicast. Even the OMG is more interested in WSDL than CORBA now.
    In fact Gartner's much hyped "enterprise service bus" is little more than a simple MOM product bundled with a tomcat and a SOAP stack.
    You describe ESB as "simple" without acknowledging that simplicity usually implies superiority.
  15. Test - please ignore[ Go to top ]

    Bla bla
    Bla bla


    • One

    • Two

    • Three
    Bla bla
    http://bla.blabla.com
  16. (noone here says SOA... they have dropped the A)
    Microsoft also dropped the A in its Longhorn literature. SOA remains in an evangelical stage, so of course the market speak will ignore crucial issues (eg, deployment, integration, Reliability-Availability-Serviceability). These issues demand an architecture. Industry is rallying around WSDL as the future of SOA remoting. Eg, Microsoft's Indigo. SOA got tied to WSDL, but WSDL is is too primitive to express the details of SOA (eg, discovery, lifecycle, redundancy). SOA beckons another layer of XML dialects for these details. SOA connotes a stack of XML semantics (SOAP, WSDL, WS-*). In this way SOA has interoperability built in.
  17. Liquid computing. What the heck is going on ? Stop marketing crap around everything. How about Gassy bugs !!!
  18. how many entries by week for BEA in TheServerSide ?

    shouldn't it be theserverside.bea.com ?
  19. sold soul to BEA[ Go to top ]

    Looks like serverside.com has sold its soul to BEA. In the last six months, I've seen so many postings related to BEA compare that with the postings related to IBM's websphere. I thought serverside.com should strike a balance b/w two for profit company. I expected a lot more postings related to JBoss (although some will agree that it's not pure open source anymore in true sense) but all I get to hear is BEA and more of BEA.
  20. Actually quite even[ Go to top ]

    Simple way to resolve this.

    Here are two searches from 1/1/2004.

    IBM and BEA

    You will notice that IBM actually got slightly more results than BEA.

    The recent postings are due to the large number of press releases from BEA around eWorld.

    Steve Wilkes
    The Middleware Company
  21. Look at the data :)[ Go to top ]

    Steve -

    Thanks for pointing out the actual data.

    TheServerSide.com relies on news. We can't *make* the likes of BEA, IBM, or anyone COME UP with news.

    There are some news posts on BEA this week, as they have announced some interesting things at eWorld. This is hardly surprising :)

    If anyone sees any news on IBM, or anything else, that they feel is important and that we have missed *please* post it on the site.

    Dion
  22. Look at the data :)[ Go to top ]

    If anyone sees any news on IBM, or anything else, that they feel is important and that we have missed *please* post it on the site.Dion
    OK, how about this - IBM publishes the industry's first SPEC jAppServer2004 results. The report is available at http://www.spec.org/jAppServer2004/results/jAppServer2004.html
  23. Thanks![ Go to top ]

    Thanks for that. We use changedetection.com on a bunch of URLs, and didn't have 2004 setup (so we didn't see it).

    I will check it out!

    Cheers,

    Dion
  24. sold soul to BEA[ Go to top ]

    Looks like serverside.com has sold its soul to BEA. In the last six months, I've seen so many postings related to BEA compare that with the postings related to IBM's websphere. I thought serverside.com should strike a balance b/w two for profit company. I expected a lot more postings related to JBoss (although some will agree that it's not pure open source anymore in true sense) but all I get to hear is BEA and more of BEA.
    Between reading JDJ and TSS, things should be okay! :)
  25. sold soul to BEA[ Go to top ]

    In the last six months, I've seen so many postings related to BEA compare that with the postings related to IBM's websphere. I thought serverside.com should strike a balance b/w two for profit company.
    Roger, TSS is a community site and as such we (and the hundreds of members that also submit news) can only report on things that we can see happening in our community. IBM's marketing and PR strategy has generally been focused more heavily on reaching c-level audiences and business types instead of developers/architects. While I maintain relationships with many key engineers at IBM and they are up to cool stuff, much of it cannot be reported publically, and I have not seen the kind of grassroots PR efforts come out of IBM we've seen from vendors like BEA, Sun, and Oracle.

    As a result, there is simply less available news coming out of IBM to draw from, and I assure you that in general, we DO report on what IS available from IBM. Beyond that, it is not up to us (and infact it would be a disservice to the community) if we went out of our way to bring a company exposure, be it IBM or BEA.

    Floyd
  26. how many entries by week for BEA in TheServerSide ?

    It's eWorld this week .. not surprising that there'd be BEA news.

    In a month, it'll be SunOne .. oops, I mean JavaOne .. and we'll probably get some news from Sun.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol, Inc.
    Coherence: Clustered JCache for Grid Computing!
  27. In my humble opinion...[ Go to top ]

    Liquid computing will go the way of liquid television.

    Bummer for BEA that their debt keeps them from being marketable.

    What was once a solid core architecture has bloated to Rosy O. proportions.

    Liquid data flies in the face of the OO principles that comprise it (and Java).

    Let's get back to authoring tools that author efficient OO code.

    MDA.

    JMHO.

    JCD
  28. In my humble opinion...[ Go to top ]

    So you're suggesting (among other things) that SOA as an architecture is just a fad? You're probably right.

    But then again, you could reasonably say the same for OOP and AOP, as well as MDA. The history of software has always been advancement through successive iterations of new technologies that build on some elements of the previous generation technology and reject others, while very occasionally adding something really new to the mix. However, I think it's a stretch to compare Liquid Computing (and therefore SOA) to Beavis and Butthead ;-)

    And why the bad rap on BEA? I don't get the feeling talking to any of my partners and customers that BEA is any less "marketable" as a brand that it ever was. And as for the core architecture, just compare application deployment and performance between WLS 5.1 and WLS 8.1.

    If anything, I've seen more stability in the latest versions thanks to the fact that the BEA Engineering teams leverage the core architecture (security, deployment, messaging) for much of the portal and integration functionality. Also, when new functionality is added to the core components, I see it much more aligned with what my customers are asking for.

    Frankly, any real solution to the integration problems facing the vast majority of companies today has to offer loosely coupled interfaces as well as be able to deal with scheduled and unscheduled downtime of components, network delays, etc.

    OOP is too low-level to deal with this problem. MDA could be very useful in application development, but it generally assumes 100% control over the application data and tightly-coupled interfaces (that is, the application is available or not available).

    The creation of interoperability standards to support SOA has made it much easier to define business process to integrate systems, reduce duplication of efforts, data entry into multiple systems, etc. While some integration initiatives I've seen do require optimized performance, the majority are being done to reduce costs, improve data integrity, and allow for change. Raw performance is secondary to these business considerations.

    Acknowledged, we'll need to get past the hype curve for the level of talk to correspond to the level of activity.

    Cheers

    Monte Kluemper
  29. Snake oil Architecture[ Go to top ]

    blah...blah...paradigm shift....blah...blah...web services...blah...blah...strategy...etc...etc...[insert buzz word here]...etc