Newbie: Start learning JSP or another framework?

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Web tier: servlets, JSP, Web frameworks: Newbie: Start learning JSP or another framework?

  1. Greetings,

    I have a few projects that will require the development of a web interface for user interaction. Would you guys recommend that I start feeling my way around with JSP and then perhaps move on to other frameworks such as Tapestry, Velocity, Spring MVC? or could I go directly with any of the above mentioned frameworks without learning JSP?

    Any comments, ideas or suggestions are more than welcome.

    Regards,

    -- Izak

    Threaded Messages (6)

  2. Hi Izak!

    Welcome to the J2EE world. I'm only a couple of years in myself, so I'm still fairly new. My advice is to start with the fundamentals. All the frameworks like Struts, Tapestry, Spring, etc. all build on the fundamentals like servlets, JSPs, custom tags, etc. Get familiar working with just those first. If you want to learn, don't use the framework until you at least get a basic understanding of what makes it work.

    JSP specifically, you'll almost always use anyway even if you use a framework. So I'd recommend to learn that first.

    Joe
  3. My advice is to start with the fundamentals. All the frameworks like Struts, Tapestry, Spring, etc. all build on the fundamentals like servlets, JSPs, custom tags, etc. Get familiar working with just those first. If you want to learn, don't use the framework until you at least get a basic understanding of what makes it work.JSP specifically, you'll almost always use anyway even if you use a framework. So I'd recommend to learn that first.
    Hello Joe,

    Thank you for the advice. I have started to work through the JSP/Servlet Web Tier book that is freely available for download from TSS. Once I am done, and have experienced some of the pains, I think I will test out some of the frameworks.

    Regards,

    -- Izak
  4. Easy[ Go to top ]

    Why dont you try with WebOnSwing Application Framework, with this framework you dont have to learn many things, you develope a web application as a desktop one, with any Swing visual editor and work with event model. Also you can apply html templates with skins to provide a profesional look.
    No jsp, request, response, servlets, get, post, requests cycles, etc are required.
    It has some similar aproaches to .NET webforms, as page state management and validation framework. And your application can be deployed as a desktop one too!
    Is an open source project, distributed under LGPL.
  5. Easy[ Go to top ]

    The problem with this is that he is a newcomer, still largely unfamiliar with technologies such as JSP and Servlet. If you want to be a good, competent developer (which I assume he wants to be), you should learn the basics before you use toolkits and "code generators". I stand behind my assertion that you shouldn't use frameworks, toolkits, code generators, etc, until you understand (in general terms) what's going on behind the scenes. You don't have to go learn the entire Struts or Spring architecture, but you should at least understand the concept of JSPs, servlets, and request/response objects.

    If you jump right to using frameworks, especially WebOnSwing which does all the work for you, you're going to run into problems later on. If something's not quite working right, you won't have the knowledge to go and investigate.

    It's an easy way to introduce hard-to-find/fix bugs.
  6. Easy[ Go to top ]

    It's true that is better to have an idea of the differents technologies, but if you work with WebOnSwing you will not need to learn neither JSP, nor servlets, request or response concepts!
    Other frameworks need to handle this concepts because they don't use a true abstract UI layer over HTTP, HTML and other web issues.
    Using WebOnSwing, in some cases, you may need to implement some new HTML renderers for special components or some javascript classes to handle remote listeners (to optimize), but you will never need to use requests, responses, JSP, servlets, filters, hundred xml files, request cycles, etc.
    Also you have a lot of documentation about Swing developement, its components, how to work with events and a lot of Swing editors to create your pages visually!
    And the problems that may arise developing with WebOnSwing are not related with these concepts.
  7. Easy[ Go to top ]

    Other frameworks need to handle this concepts because they don't use a true abstract UI layer over HTTP, HTML and other web issues.
    While this may to be true in theory, the reality of the matter is that I will probably be required to have knowledge extensive knowledge of Servlets/JSP, since 80% of development projects are extending existing projects. Existing projects which are bound to be built on Servlet/JSP technology.

    However, I do appreciate all the advice.

    Regards,

    -- Izak