News: Earth to Sun - please do not dump JavaOne
Bob Sutor, IBM's Director of WebSphere Foundation Software respectfully requests that Sun keep the JavaOne and Sun-specific Sun Network conferences separate.
- Posted by: Greg Hamilton
- Posted on: September 02 2004 19:00 EDT
We should all join Bob and urge Sun to err on the side of the Java community. Will we just be participants in a Sun infomercial if they combine both conferences? Merging Sun Network with JavaOne would completely cross over the line toward making this an explicitly Sun event at the expense of all the loyal Java developers worldwide who look forward to their event (JavaOne) each year.
- my feeling by peter lin on September 03 2004 10:11 EDT
- Earth to Sun - please dump JavaOne by Vic Cekvenich on September 03 2004 11:18 EDT
- Events are for marketing. PERIOD!!! by Philippe Marcus on September 03 2004 11:24 EDT
- RE: to my previous post by Philippe Marcus on September 03 2004 11:31 EDT
- Events are for marketing but not TSS Java Symposium by Floyd Marinescu on September 03 2004 13:41 EDT
- Totally Disagree by Leif Ashley on September 03 2004 11:45 EDT
Sun has done a lot of great things for Java and OSS. Although I've never been to a JavaOne conference, due to lack of time, combining both conferences turns me off. I would like to attend JavaOne some day, but I'm gonna be selfish and say I want it to focus on java. I happen to like sparc and solaris hardware, but that has nothing to do with java in my mind.
We have TSS Conference and we have NoFlufh conference and the best one:
Why would we want an conference to embarass us all?
JavaOne is expensive, loses money, and people go once and they are turned of to the platform. (yes, in the past it was good).
Else.... and I am serious: Let me pick ALL the speakers.
It is a sad and tragic truth. Most events are for marketing purposes. Very rarely do you see events that have the sole focus: to do good to the developer community. They are organized by marketing and events group. Their sole agenda is to get the developer base somehow linked to their products.
Having said that, most events are funded by marketing/events. How do you expect them not to mix the noise, and fluff stuff with the core technical. I am yet to see a major conference be educational... I think if we accept this truth, things get a lot easier. We can't straighten a dog's tail.
In fact, majority of the presentations are prepared the last 2 weeks, or from the recyle bin. In many conferences these days marketing/product management deliver the talks rather than the core developers. Very few conferences are left where you find the core geeks from whom you can learn something.
Is 2000$ really worth it? I attended one of those web services labs at JavaOne recently. It was full of marketing on how to use Sun tools. I am sure this will be the case with any company's conference. I remember once upon a time we used to spend 800-1000$.
In my mind, Java developers should start focussing on smaller events and user groups.
1) good camaraderi and a chance to get to know fellow developers
2) more targeted towards learning
For 2000$ I could very easily purchase a solid desktop, equip it with all the software needed, and purchase over 2 dozen books and get going on my own...
I didn't mean to pick on sun with my previous post. Frankly this is the case with all major fortune 100 companies' conferences.
In fact, Sun has been having problems making money. Might be Javaone is another revenue option ;-)
TSS conference - no fluff stuff - I would like to observe this before I make my judgement. Over time all big conferences funded by major companies will end up with fluff stuff. Look at the sponsors. The same players everywhere..so how can you not avoid the fluff stuff or the slides from the recycle bin showing up everywhere you go! No offense meant to TSS folks. But I really think this is the truth.
just my opinion...
It is a sad and tragic truth. Most events are for marketing purposes. Very rarely do you see events that have the sole focus: to do good to the developer community. They are organized by marketing and events group. Their sole agenda is to get the developer base somehow linked to their products.This is where TheServerSide Java Symposium is different. The Symposium has been a labour of love and extension of what you see here on TSS. Just look at last year's agenda http://www.theserverside.com/symposium/agenda.html. Our conference is a representative cross section of the community, and we don't invite people because of the hype around their name but because of contributions they've made, be it by leading specs, founding projects, writing books, contributing on expert groups or simply being an awesome architect positively influencing others on TSS and elsewhere.
The Symposium was designed by developers to be non-commercial. There is no exhibitors hall, and the speakers and topics speak for themselves. The only thing that has been commerical about it are the keynotes, which only form 5 of the 55 sessions, and we are also looking to move away from that model for our next event which will be in March 2005, in Vegas.
If you want proof that TSSS will not become overly commercial, look at TSS.com itself. It is an instance of community much like the conference is, and yet over the past 4 years has maintained it's quality, focus, and non-intrusive business model. So our track record should hopefully speak for itself. :)
I agree with you somewhat. I don't see TSSS every being the market conference presence as J1, but it is pretty cool... and fairly hard core.
I see room for both, and just to clarify, I was not suggesting that all the track for J1 be combined. You could have an admin / developer track where hardware would stay on the admin only side.
As for sending $$$ to SUN, whoever doorknob made that comment, let's see you compete against MS.NET without budget. Get real... MS.NET is wiping the floor with Java projects. Where I'm at, hoards of companies are converting.
He without the $$$ dies.
What was the attendance like at TSSS? Supposedly J1 had "15,000" attendees this year, but I have no idea how close this was to the actual number. When vendors do go to conferences as sponsors (and there are certainly conferences that can do without sponsors so long as the rent gets paid), they are very interested in how many people get to see their stuff. That is, how large is the ratio
(number of leads) / (cost of sponsorship)
This is not the only variable we look at when we consider sponsoring a conference, but it's a good one to understand, at least.
Pardon me that this question is orthogonal to the original idea of this thread, but I thought it would be good to ask.
I will consider attending TSS next year. Let me see if it lives up to its goals. :-)
I did read this and found it interesting. TSS symposium summary: http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=26837
Do you really need sponsors? I mean TSS is anyway owned by veritas, can't you manage without sponsors? That way you cut the extra noise that comes with this...
I completely disagree with this approach. I believe that SUN should combine these 2 conferences. SUN hardware has it tough in the marketplace, and this would be a great opportunity to have admin input on how to make their products better running java apps.
SUN hardware really isn't all that great for the price (at least in the past), and I would definately like to see the java community play a part in helping SUN in this area.
Something else everyone is missing is that Java is not a massive cash cow for SUN. Having revenue generated from hardware sales & contracts will help push java. The better SUN does financially, the better java will be in the end.
Otherwise we might all be download new JSDKs from IBM, which of course if they get their hands on it, it will be flown straight into the ground by lackluster CEOs & Directors (Lotus Domino, webspehere, token ring, MCA - need I go on)
PS: interesting that the IBM Dir. of WFS is the one requesting it.
Exactly my point. If you tie selling something with a conference agenda, you are mixing marketing and core technology. That just doesn't blend well. you will have fluff. If you really want to help Sun, why don't you just send in your cash $$$ contribution to some fund they have. Why should developers have to go thru the ordeal of listening to talks which is 1million feet high (yawn!!) The earth is round...etc...