IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released

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News: IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released

  1. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released (49 messages)

    After listening to the complaints of IDEA users trying to write plug-ins for Intellij IDEA, the Jetbrains developers have finally released a dev kit for plug-in development. The kit can be found here.

    The dev kit contains much of the information developers have had to scour newsgroups for as well as example plug-ins and actual documentation. The Jetbrains developers have promised in the newgroups that this is just the start of more robust support for a plug-in community and will continue to improve the documentation. The plug-in community has long been touted as one of Eclipse's advantages over IDEA. Could this be the tide turning?

    Threaded Messages (49)

  2. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Could this be the tide turning?

    Could this be a statement/hope disguised as a question?
  3. Yeah, IDEA is "better"...[ Go to top ]

    if you're stuck doing Java all day long. I use Eclipse for Java, C++, and Ruby. And don't get me started on Swing.
  4. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Could this be the tide turning?

    I don't think so. I love Idea and hope that many plugins do come or are converted from eclipse. But there seem to be two major camps:

    1) Those who feel Eclipse is a great IDE with a ton of plugins all for free. (hard to argue with)

    2) Those who feel paying a bit more is worth some really nice extra features.

    Since I do a lot of development, I'm in camp two. I'm personally just more productive with Idea.

    My only question is why did this framework take so long?
  5. Err, no[ Go to top ]

    Could this be the tide turning?

    I'd have to buy IDEA to run a plugin!
  6. Err, no[ Go to top ]

    You often develop plugins for applications that you do not use? Come on...

    Regards Peter
  7. If free!![ Go to top ]

    If ever IDEA were to become free (regardless of what business sense that would make!!), I am sure it would surpass Eclipse as the prime IDE of choice - atleast for some time. From then on evolution will take on and it will be the survival of the fittest.
    I think that would be the case whether IDEA plugins are free or not.
    On the other hand, I think some eclipse plugins are still not free...

    Anoop
  8. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    The plug-in community has long been touted as one of Eclipse's advantages over IDEA. Could this be the tide turning?

    The tide is not turning.

    The problem is that the price of Eclispe ($0) is unbeatable, even though IDEA is a much better piece of software. (Note that I didn't say that Eclispe sucks, just that IDEA is much better.)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  9. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    I'm always amused by the fact that whenever the Eclipse vs. IDEA debate comes up the most often mentioned difference is the price.

    After all, we all know that a $50 an hour Java developer provides twice as much value to a project as a $100 developer, right?

    Dion
  10. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    After all, we all know that a $50 an hour Java developer provides twice as much value to a project as a $100 developer, right?

    <sarcasm>
    Yep. Just use two $50/hour developers and you'll be good to go. This is related to another one of my favorite strategies: when your development project is behind schedule, just add more people to the project and you'll catch up in no time!
    </sarcasm>
  11. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    I'm always amused by the fact that whenever the Eclipse vs. IDEA debate comes up the most often mentioned difference is the price.
    Actually, no.

    What always comes up in these debates is all the IDEA fans claiming that IDEA is superior to Eclipse. Interestingly, Eclipse users don't seem to want to bother doing the same.

    But you know what? They have exactly the same amount of fun. And I should know, I'm one of them.

    Seriously, guys, the two IDE's are equivalent, period. You can do a point-by-point comparison but at the end of the days, an IDEA expert using IDEA is just as productive as an Eclipse expert using Eclipse.

    Developers regularly come to me and ask me which IDE they should choose, and my response is always "whichever you pick, you'll like it".

    --
    Cedric
  12. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Actually, no.What always comes up in these debates is all the IDEA fans claiming that IDEA is superior to Eclipse. Interestingly, Eclipse users don't seem to want to bother doing the same.

    There's an easy explanation for that.


    Dion
  13. RE: IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Actually, no.What always comes up in these debates is all the IDEA fans claiming that IDEA is superior to Eclipse. Interestingly, Eclipse users don't seem to want to bother doing the same.But you know what? They have exactly the same amount of fun. And I should know, I'm one of them.Seriously, guys, the two IDE's are equivalent, period.

    Hear hear.
  14. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    I'm one of them.Seriously, guys, the two IDE's are equivalent, period. You can do a point-by-point comparison but at the end of the days, an IDEA expert using IDEA is just as productive as an Eclipse expert using Eclipse.Developers regularly come to me and ask me which IDE they should choose, and my response is always "whichever you pick, you'll like it".-- Cedric

    A cheap Rolex clone has the same functionality as the real thing .... and a BMW has the same number of wheels as a Ford etc. High quality amplifiers will often have less features than a low quality one (because they don't need them!).

    Point by point comparisons are not a comparison of quality and that is the main difference between the two - quality/user experience.

    Yes you might travel as fast on the roads in a suped-up Ford Escort (or other generic fast cheap car) as a BMW driver but the BMW driver will have a very different experience of the journey ;-)

    Each to their own indeed - but an intelligent choice should be made based upon more than a feature checklist.
  15. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Yes you might travel as fast on the roads in a suped-up Ford Escort (or other generic fast cheap car) as a BMW driver but the BMW driver will have a very different experience of the journey ;-)
    I'm not even sure about that. Cars are even more personal than IDE's and I know quite a few people who prefer the experience of their cheaper car to that of a luxury one.

    Here is another factor: the pleasure related to driving a particular car fades fast. Very fast. You get a new car, you notice it every day you sit in it for... what, the first two weeks? The first month? After that, you don't notice it any more.

    Anyway, it's a silly comparison in an IDE discussion, if you ask me :-)

    --
    Cedric
  16. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Seriously, guys, the two IDE's are equivalent, period. You can do a point-by-point comparison but at the end of the days, an IDEA expert using IDEA is just as productive as an Eclipse expert using Eclipse.

    Uh, no. I have been using Eclipse a lot more than IDEA for the last eight months (because of some required plugins in client's dev environment), and I am absolutely SHOCKED that I have not just gotten used to it.

    After eight months of hard dev, I can confidently say that IDEA is a superior environment. Eclipse is free and 'good enough'.
  17. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Seriously, guys, the two IDE's are equivalent, period. You can do a point-by-point comparison but at the end of the days, an IDEA expert using IDEA is just as productive as an Eclipse expert using Eclipse.

    Really? Where's your research that proves that assertion?
  18. Experts[ Go to top ]

    IDEA expert using IDEA is just as productive as an Eclipse expert using Eclipse.
    That's the whole point. You do not have to be an expert to be productive in IDEA. That's what usability means. http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/04/intellij-moment-of-zen/
  19. Turning Tide? Mmm... no.[ Go to top ]

    I'm glad to hear JetBrains is listening to their customers. In one of their forums I once complained about the lack of ClearCase support. Their response? "Write a plugin." My response to that? "It's too much work". Hopefully this will lower the barrier to plugin development to a reasonable level.

    Regardless, Eclipse will continue to be the dominant Java IDE platform for the foreseeable future, because of all the reasons we know:

     o It Works
     o It's Free
     o People like free things that work

    IntelliJ is a better IDE, but most people don't think the improvement is worth the cost. Personally I find this odd, because from my experience the $400 license has made me a much better developer, which in turn has allowed me to write better/faster/more complex software (aka Make More Money). It's definitely paid for itself.

    But it will continue to be a niche player in the IDE market, like many innovative companies who compete in what is pretty much a commodity market (think Apple's desktops). This isn't a bad thing, it's just the way of capitalism.


    Peter
  20. Turning Tide? Mmm... no.[ Go to top ]

    It's only $250 at the moment. Which is still > $0. But like you said, I'm more productive in IDEA.
  21. This has been released for over a year[ Go to top ]

    This DevKit was shipped with IDEA 5.0 which was released many months ago. It's been available to plugin developers for over a year through the EAP program. This is not news.
  22. This has been released for over a year[ Go to top ]

    This DevKit was shipped with IDEA 5.0 which was released many months ago. It's been available to plugin developers for over a year through the EAP program. This is not news.
    Well that answers the question. No tide turning. :))

    Common guys! IDEA cannot beat Eclipse being just better IDE.
    You know that. IDEA was miles ahead of Eclipse. But it catched up. All because of OpenSource.
    Besides developers are moving away from java. Java becomes a low level system language. People start using higher level languages like Python, Groovy, Ruby, Lisp. Often on top of java, on top of JVM.
    Eclipse has support for all these languages via plugins.
  23. IDEA was miles ahead of Eclipse. But it catched up. All because of OpenSource.

    I'd be really curious to see your implementation of an equals() method.


    Dion
  24. IDEA was miles ahead of Eclipse. But it catched up. All because of OpenSource.

    I'd be really curious to see your implementation of an equals() method.

    Also, since when did "lots of paid IBM employees" equal "open source"? Eclipse didn't get better "because it was open source" -- it got better because IBM paid a large team of their own employees to developer it!

    Eclispe is decent. If IDEA didn't exist, I'd probably use it. ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  25. Eclipse didn't get better "because it was open source" -- it got better because IBM paid a large team of their own employees to developer it

    Are you sure about that? I have the original WSAD on my machine and it is a travesty. I use Eclipse because it's really much better. Does IBM still provide developers for the Eclipse project? Most of the problems I see with Eclipse are hold-overs from WSAD. I think it's likely that given a clean-slate some of Eclipses idiosyncracies wouldn't have been implemented. For example, why does selecting 'build automatically' from the 'project' menu cause the entire workspace to build automatically? Why must I lose all my settings if the app doesn't close successfully? I don't really get why all the source from all projects is displayed in the package explorer. You definitely don't want to attempt to customize it to your own liking, like having source in a directory not named src, and not directly under the folder that holds the project.

    It's a 'decent' tool, as you say, but not excellent. Most of it's non-excellent features came from IBM.

    It's main selling point is that it's free and because it's free it becoming a defacto standard environment.
  26. WSAD is Eclipse++[ Go to top ]

    WSAD is Eclipse plus a whole lot of server tooling. The Eclipse SDK originally was and to a large part still is developed by IBM/OTI employees. Sorry to say that, but you're obviously talking out of your behind.
  27. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    The reason that people don't pay for IDEs:

    Management has already allocated all the funds for developer tools to IBM (especially now that IBM owns Rational.) They might as well set up direct deposit.

    [Developer] There's a great IDE that would really improve productivity.
    [Management] We have already spend thousands on (the original) WSAD, Rose, and Tibco and we've seen no improvement in productivity. In fact we've seen a decrease in productivity.
    [Developer] Well... those tools kind of suck big-time.
    [Management] Exactly, if the developers weren't too stupid to use these great tools we've bought, they would stop asking us to spend more on tools.
    [Developer] Downloads Eclipse...
  28. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    The reason that people don't pay for IDEs:Management has already allocated all the funds for developer tools to IBM (especially now that IBM owns Rational.) They might as well set up direct deposit.

    [Developer] There's a great IDE that would really improve productivity.
    [Management] We have already spend thousands on (the original) WSAD, Rose, and Tibco and we've seen no improvement in productivity. In fact we've seen a decrease in productivity.
    [Developer] Well... those tools kind of suck big-time.
    [Management] Exactly, if the developers weren't too stupid to use these great tools we've bought, they would stop asking us to spend more on tools.
    [Developer] Downloads Eclipse...

    I did not even started this argument with my management, just bought myself a personal IDEA copy two years ago. Still using it and cannot be happier. Call me a pervert but I like to have pleasure in the office too.
  29. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    The reason that people don't pay for IDEs:Management has already allocated all the funds for developer tools to IBM (especially now that IBM owns Rational.) They might as well set up direct deposit.[Developer] There's a great IDE that would really improve productivity.[Management] We have already spend thousands on (the original) WSAD, Rose, and Tibco and we've seen no improvement in productivity. In fact we've seen a decrease in productivity.[Developer] Well... those tools kind of suck big-time.[Management] Exactly, if the developers weren't too stupid to use these great tools we've bought, they would stop asking us to spend more on tools.[Developer] Downloads Eclipse...
    I did not even started this argument with my management, just bought myself a personal IDEA copy two years ago. Still using it and cannot be happier. Call me a pervert but I like to have pleasure in the office too.

    [Whoop whoop!] You've revealed to the network monitors that you have non-standard software imstalled on your workstation. Please stay at your desk while security makes it's way to you. You are also in big trouble for pleasuring yourself at work.
  30. IDEA Plug-in Dev Kit Released[ Go to top ]

    Weel, I don't know whether this will make a huge impact, but I sure do expect to see a lot of useful addons (such as Tetris) to appear for our benefit. But IDEA is a great tool and, in my opinion, has a much better name than Eclipse. When I was choosing an IDE, I've spent a lot of time browsing through a lot of products. When I showed price tag to my boss he asked: "Why don't you use Eclipse? Its cheap and free?" My response was this: "Well, it took me 10 mins to figure out how to use IDEA and a week later I still don't know how to use Eclipse" - I still don't. That thing is confusing. But back to IDEA plugins... when is the net racing game coming out? or doom for IDEA?
  31. A few things[ Go to top ]

    Argument: Eclipse is free, whereas IDEA is not.
    Counter: For developers who have not used IDEA, eclipse is probably the best thing to have happened. However, for developers have used IDEA, the jump in productivity is significant. I am willing to bet that developers who have used IDEA for a length of time, never go back to using anything else. So for developers like this, eclipse is not free. It costs developer time. Over a period, this cost is much higher.

    Argument: Eclipse has tons of plugins. IDEA is way behind in this area.
    Counter: Of the 1000-odd eclipse plugins, how many are really useful? I daresay, less than a handful. Most developers can live without the browser plugin or the IM chat plugin, thank you. :-) Of the few that turn out to be useful, half of them are not free. Also, with IDEA one does not need to scurry around looking for the plugin download site (for automated installs and updates). ALL the plugins and their purpose is made available from the IDE itself.

    Eclipse attempts to solve a very large spectrum of problems, without actually solving them completely, for eg. J2EE development. IDEA is a lot more focussed.

    Peace.
  32. A few things[ Go to top ]

    Argument: Eclipse is free, whereas IDEA is not.Counter: For developers who have not used IDEA, eclipse is probably the best thing to have happened. However, for developers have used IDEA, the jump in productivity is significant.
    No it's not. Seriously.

    I am convinced that if you look at the big picture (say, one year worth of productivity?), two developers who are equally competent with their IDE of choice (IDEA or Eclipse) will have about the same productivity.
    I am willing to bet that developers who have used IDEA for a length of time, never go back to using anything else.
    Sure. And you see the same in the opposite direction. There is no massive migration from one side to the other.
    Argument: Eclipse has tons of plugins. IDEA is way behind in this area.Counter: Of the 1000-odd eclipse plugins, how many are really useful? I daresay, less than a handful.
    This is totally irrelevant because, again, you're losing track of the big picture.

    Think about the one-year productivity factor.
    IDEA is a lot more focussed.Peace.
    You call that "focused", many people call it "stymied by the poorness of its plug-in API".

    Glad to hear that this may change with the new release, by the way.

    --
    Cedric
  33. A few things[ Go to top ]

    This is totally irrelevant because, again, you're losing track of the big picture.

    Think about the one-year productivity factor.

    I'm definitely thinking about the one year productivity factor.

    For the last year I've been working with a team of Eclipse experts - and I don't mean that sarcastically. These are people who know Eclipse inside and out, write their own plug-ins, etc. We pair, so the entire team was forced to adopt Eclipse.

    I've watched one team member spend days writing equals, hash, and toString methods. Even after another expert pulled down the apache commons library and loaded the Commonclipse plug-in a considerable amount of time was spent tweaking all these methods.

    Implementing equals, hash, and toString is trivial in IDEA. The amount of time saved on this one task alone would have more than covered the cost of licenses for the entire team.

    We also use Checkstyle, but it performs so poorly interactively that we have it run as part of our build process and publish results to a web page. The interactive analysis in IDEA and the auto-correction capabilities based on that analysis allow me to be much more productive in IDEA.

    I agree wholeheartedly that the one year productivity factor should be taken into account when making a decision.
  34. A few things[ Go to top ]

    I've watched one team member spend days writing equals, hash, and toString methods

    How many classes can there possibly be that need these?
  35. A few things[ Go to top ]

    I've watched one team member spend days writing equals, hash, and toString methods
    How many classes can there possibly be that need these?

    That depends on the project, what libraries your using, etc. You're not going to sit there and tell my that coding equals, hashCode and toString methods is so rare that it's irrelevant and has no impact on productivity, are you? That would be extremely presumptuous. Of course, if I used Eclipse I would probably find anyway possible to avoid having to code those methods given the difficulty...
  36. A few things[ Go to top ]

    That depends on the project, what libraries your using, etc. You're not going to sit there and tell my that coding equals, hashCode and toString methods is so rare that it's irrelevant and has no impact on productivity, are you?
    Of course not, but do these tasks really matter over a one-year period? (assuming the team didn't even think of installing a plug-in to automate this in the first place)

    --
    Cedric
  37. Inspections?[ Go to top ]

    Indeed equals()/hashCode() generation is not the best sample to convince anyone. It doesn't look spectacular. How about on-the-fly inspections detecting bugs and showing them right in the editor window immediately after you've typed them in (no compilation required)? I know there are some plugins for Eclipse doing static code analysis as well but
    * there's huge productivity gain of seeing problems immediately after they appear, not in daily/weekly or whatever reports
    * most inspection are accompanied with quickfixes so they may be used in programming by intention manner.
    * there just more inspections in IDEA
  38. Inspections?[ Go to top ]

    Indeed equals()/hashCode() generation is not the best sample to convince anyone. It doesn't look spectacular. How about on-the-fly inspections detecting bugs and showing them right in the editor window immediately after you've typed them in (no compilation required)? I know there are some plugins for Eclipse doing static code analysis as well but* there's huge productivity gain of seeing problems immediately after they appear, not in daily/weekly or whatever reports* most inspection are accompanied with quickfixes so they may be used in programming by intention manner.* there just more inspections in IDEA

    I agree. Equals/hashCode generation is by far not the best sample to demonstrate the productivity improvements you get with IDEA. Nevertheless, we could have literally saved 24 -32 hours on my current project by using IDEA. That's what happens when team members start writing equals/hashCode by hand. (Just because the Commonclipse plug-in exists doesn't mean everyone knows about it.)

    I did also mention the code analysis problems we have with Checkstyle.

    I referenced the equals/hash code thing because this is a real world example from my current project. Part of the problem with this whole IDEA/Eclipse debate is that people often talk in abstract theoretical terms. Eclipse enthusiasts are always touting the myriad of plug-ins available for Eclipse. They seldom talk about the time it takes to search for, download, install, and configure these plug-ins - all of which have an impact on productivity.
  39. Inspections?[ Go to top ]

    Nevertheless, we could have literally saved 24 -32 hours on my current project by using IDEA.
    How do you know that?

    Maybe you would have saved these hours for this particular example, but you could lose more hours for some other reasons that you don't know about because you don't know that Eclipse has such or such feature.

    Again, we're back to small-picture considerations.

    For every feature you give that IDEA has and Eclipse doesn't, I'm sure I can come up with a reverse example. And my point is precisely that over the entire lifetime of a project, these differences cancel each other out because both IDE's are equally good.
    Eclipse enthusiasts are always touting the myriad of plug-ins available for Eclipse. They seldom talk about the time it takes to search for, download, install, and configure these plug-ins - all of which have an impact on productivity.

    And here we go again...

    They seldom talk about these things because the time to download, install and configure your environment is inconsequential in the big picture. Especially compared to the time spent *using* these plug-ins.

    --
    Cedric
  40. Inspections?[ Go to top ]

    And my point is precisely that over the entire lifetime of a project, these differences cancel each other out because both IDE's are equally good.
    Answering with your own words: How do you know that?
    I'd agree though, one can't definetely prove the fact if IDEA is more productive than Eclipse or vice versa since productivity is very hard to measure due to unequal conditions.
    However, you postulate the fact both IDEs are of equal strength axiomaticaly. How do you know that?
  41. Inspections?[ Go to top ]

    Nevertheless, we could have literally saved 24 -32 hours on my current project by using IDEA.
    How do you know that?Maybe you would have saved these hours for this particular example, but you could lose more hours for some other reasons that you don't know about because you don't know that Eclipse has such or such feature.Again, we're back to small-picture considerations.For every feature you give that IDEA has and Eclipse doesn't, I'm sure I can come up with a reverse example. And my point is precisely that over the entire lifetime of a project, these differences cancel each other out because both IDE's are equally good.
    Eclipse enthusiasts are always touting the myriad of plug-ins available for Eclipse. They seldom talk about the time it takes to search for, download, install, and configure these plug-ins - all of which have an impact on productivity.
    And here we go again...They seldom talk about these things because the time to download, install and configure your environment is inconsequential in the big picture. Especially compared to the time spent *using* these plug-ins.-- Cedric

    I know we could have saved 24 - 32 hours on the equals/hashCode generation because I was there.

    There have been additional productivity losses like the time we lost trying the Subclipse plug-in before we switched to CVS.

    In your opinion, this time might be "inconsequential". In my opinion, it's not.

    You proved my point about people arguing about this from a purely theoretical aspect. You say there are "reverse examples" of features not found in IDEA that exist in Eclipse and that the sum of these features will cancel out any features found in IDEA that are not in Eclipse.

    Really? Which ones?

    After using Eclipse full time for the last year I can honestly say I haven't found anything in Eclipse that would make me more productive than using IDEA. Mileage may vary on other projects and in other contexts, but that's my experience.
  42. A few things[ Go to top ]

    That depends on the project, what libraries your using, etc. You're not going to sit there and tell my that coding equals, hashCode and toString methods is so rare that it's irrelevant and has no impact on productivity, are you?
    Of course not, but do these tasks really matter over a one-year period? (assuming the team didn't even think of installing a plug-in to automate this in the first place)-- Cedric

    I would say that's just one item and these items add up quickly. We use Idea at work. One of the guys uses Eclipse. (Ultimately, as long as the build can happen with Ant, I don't care.)

    I know one guy who missed a bug, a recusive infinitely loop that he checked in. I open the file in Idea and it pointed the problem out immediately. The difference, I turned on that error check that Idea provides out of the box. He didn't and that's why he missed it.

    From what I've seen of most developers DON'T download plugins. That use what they have out of the box. Even when stuff is included, they don't always configure it. Hardcore guys do.

    Regardless, those little "time bandits" add up quickly, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
  43. A few things[ Go to top ]

    I've watched one team member spend days writing equals, hash, and toString methods
    How many classes can there possibly be that need these?
    That depends on the project, what libraries your using, etc. You're not going to sit there and tell my that coding equals, hashCode and toString methods is so rare that it's irrelevant and has no impact on productivity, are you? That would be extremely presumptuous. Of course, if I used Eclipse I would probably find anyway possible to avoid having to code those methods given the difficulty...

    It's not really on topic, I apologize for that. I guess what I am getting at is that the last time I ran into a situation where I was spending a lot of time writing hasCode, equals and toString methods, it was because of a poor design. Basically a lot of similar but distinct classes. I ended up writing a code generator to create the entire class. It took me a couple days to do it but I would have never finished in time had I continued by hand.
  44. A few things[ Go to top ]

    I've watched one team member spend days writing equals, hash, and toString methods.

    Let's see... M-x base-equals. Yep, that was easy.
    -Patrick

    --
    Patrick Linskey
    http://bea.com
  45. Adding...[ Go to top ]

    I have been using IDEA for about 2 years now and I'm pretty much set with it. I've been trying to migrate to Eclipse for the past one month since I may not have IDEA someplace else.

    But I'm finding migrating to Eclipse a really painful process. IDEA has a lot of stuff like Live templates for eg. that I'm very much used to...Plus I have a lot of customized live templates. Also IDEA has a lot more refactorings than in Eclipse.

    I do agree that Eclipse has a great plugin support. I especially miss the Spring plugin in IDEA. There is one available but it sucks.

    Nonetheless development with IDEA is definitely a breeze.

    Peace,
    Rajesh.
  46. I am an IDEA user and I love it. If only JetBrains could do no wrong - but they can and the plugin devkit proves it (I am also an Eclipse user as my company writes eclipse plugins but just haven't got my head around it yet).

    As someone else said, the plugin devkit has been available in EAP for quite a while. Why then is there still almost no documentation in it (even javadocs), and why are the samples pretty much undocumented too? It's as if they've made it public to get some publicity in the battle against Eclipse or to get a tick in the box of "having a plugin devkit" on someones IDE checklist. It certainly isn't the kind of quality I'd expect from JetBrains and I doubt it will entice many new developers to take up IDEA plugin development any time soon.

    To try it out I just wrote a trivial plugin with the devkit. I mean really trivial (add a project specific setting for what will appear in the title bar of the project window). The final code is fairly trivial and shows that the plugin API may actually be quite good, but the time it took to try to piece together what classes to use and how to access various project related resources using totally inadequate javadoc and examples has put me off trying anything more complex.

    To be fare, I should try to do the same in eclipse before writing off the IDEA devkit but I assume eclipse is a lot better documented (and finding eclipse plugin writers to help out is a lot easier I would bet - we have several in our company to ask).

    A bit off topic but, it hasn't been mentioned here that IntelliJ is now taking the approach of charging for what they call "Companion Products" for IDEA. These are the kind of functionality that used to come with IDEA and someone paying $499 for a license might expect to be included in new versions. They have Refactor-X, and Refactor-J which adds 9 refactorings - isn't that the power of IDEA OOTB? Now I have to pay more for refactorings? Not likely. I think they may be shooting themselves in the foot with this approach. Eclipse will add this functionality (eventually) and it will be free.
  47. Why then is there still almost no documentation in it (even javadocs), and why are the samples pretty much undocumented too? It's as if they've made it public to get some publicity in the battle against Eclipse or to get a tick in the box of "having a plugin devkit" on someones IDE checklist. It certainly isn't the kind of quality I'd expect from JetBrains and I doubt it will entice many new developers to take up IDEA plugin development any time soon.

    Which version of IDEA are you using? The plugin documentation (specifically the javadocs) was revamped in 5.02. I haven't checked it out myself so I cannot tell you what the differences are but I believe that's the real reason for this announcement -- not the devkit itself.
  48. IDEA is better than Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    I use IDEA from several years and I think is better than Eclipse for a simple reason.
    With IDEA the user can programmer like he wants.
    Eclipse forces the user to program like it wants!!!
    A little stupid example: in a Web dynamic project the user cannot set where to put the web.xml.
    Why cannot I set the directory where to put it? Obviously the web.xml must be put in the WEB-INF directory but when i deploy my application and not in the source code.

    Other example: xdoclet for generating servlet and so on, but i don't know whether I can check off it in Eclipse. ;-)

    BR
    /Amleto
  49. IDEA is better than Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    Other example: xdoclet for generating servlet and so on, but i don't know whether I can check off it in Eclipse. ;-)BR/Amleto
    Here.

    --
    Cedric
  50. Right, but 5.0.x has problems[ Go to top ]

    IDEA is much better than Eclipse, but
    1) IDEA 5.x has problems esp. in Linux! I still like 4.x series.
    2) NetBeans 5 is an open-source copy of IDEA!