Ok Please explain because this sentence doesn't make any logical sense. They have the right to disagree on JSF but I don't have the right to disagree? Or maybe you think they represent the majority???
No no, everyone does what he wants, you have the right to disagree with anything, that's not the point.
What I meant is that your opinion is one thing, the fact JSF is perceived as over-complicated by many developers is another !
Yet many other developpers like me find it good, MyFaces mailing traffic list is one of the highest in all the Apache projects.
Erf. Swing's MLs are not so popular, for sure... Maybe in part because it works ? ;-P
Seriously, analysing traffic on MLs won't tell you if a technology has solid foundations or if it's usable.
Do you frequent tomcat MLs ? I don't. But still, I use tomcat on a daily basis and I'm happy with it, it's working and usable
so I don't need to post in any ML...
Because not everyone believe in constructing GUI using Java like you.
I think this comes from the web. I mean, the most sophisticated UIs are built using Swing, QT, Delphi and other component-based
Nobody, before the web and HTML became such a common thing, would ever have imagined to do this in a markup language...
Anyway, once again everyone uses technology as he wants, but honestly I can't believe templating is better than pure OO, sorry.
Don't hesitate to prove me wrong :-)
For my part, I don't like to bent Java to every possible use, template language is just more effective there.
Have you ever tried JSF?
A little bit yep. It took me one hour to ask myself why everything was so complicated and ugly !!!
There is one config file, faces-config.xml which is very simple and yet you can useannotations using Struts Shale.
My point is precisely that it should be attractive out-of-the-box
That's like if I go and buy a brand new car, that everybody talks about. On the way back home, I remark that I can't use the gearbox, and the lights are not working etc. I call the guy who sold me the car, and he tells me I have to add options so my car works as I expected it to work from the beginning ! Moreover the options are exotic stuff that I have to learn
in order to drive this car !!!
At this point of time, I'm seriously thinking about buying a regular car you know...
Not hundred like you say.Taglibs and server restart, never heard of it since I use facelets.
Facelets look good, but same issue : it tends to prove that JSF in itself is not sufficient !
And btw, the server restart (or hot redeploy) is mandatory because
you are running a server !
In Swing you only invoke a main() that pops up a screen.
No server bs, only pure UI.
That's why things are a bit quicker to test...
A pure Java JSF API is not a main concern in the JSF community because most people prefer using a template view technology like facelets.
IMHO, rich UIs in the browser will be easy to develop when frameworks will completely abstract the protocol and rendering. Proposing taglibs, JSP or XHTML in JSF is a mistake to me. It doesn't really show how JSF leverages web development.
Once again, it can look like PHP with increased complexity for a non-expert. So web developers will still do PHP, and complex UI designers will stick to WebStart or Echo.
And I am not saying Echo isn't popular. I like JSF to have competition and I hope Echo or any other OSS project is going to be successful in the long run.
At least we agree on this :-)
And btw, note that I'm trying to make contructive criticism about JSF. I would not spend energy doing this if I did not believe in such approaches.