Discussions

News: JBoss acquired by Red Hat

  1. JBoss acquired by Red Hat (113 messages)

    As predicted by many, JBoss has entered into an agreement to be acquired - by Red Hat, which anticipates accellerating the shift to SOA. According to the press release by Red Hat, they are acquiring JBoss for approximately $350 million in initial consideration, plus approximately $70 million subject to the achievement of certain future performance metrics.

    Marc Fleury indicates he will still be responsible for the Red Hat organization, a requirement he's stated publicly for JBoss to be acquired.

    Sun offers official JVMs for Red Hat in RPM format, but Red Hat doesn't normally come with an official JVM by default; acquisition of (or, more correctly, merging with) JBoss may accellerate JBoss compatibility with Kaffe or gcj, or push more resources to Apache Harmony, or possibly even change whether Red Hat comes with the Sun JVM by default.

    What do you think of this change in the J2EE landscape?

    Threaded Messages (113)

  2. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations! It takes an extraordinary amount of work, dedication, and smarts to build a company up to this value.
  3. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations! It takes an extraordinary amount of work, dedication, and smarts to build a company up to this value.

    +1

    Good news and congratulations -- this is an excellent achievement!

    I wonder if an OSS databse vendor could be next in line?

    Tom
  4. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations! It takes an extraordinary amount of work, dedication, and smarts to build a company up to this value.

    +1

    Best wishes for continued success.
  5. ... hijacking ??[ Go to top ]

    ... men, just few words to comment one of the biggest hijack of the moment... JBoss guys just made money on us, playing with the community, sending strong messages... after this, and when I see the Fleury's blog : it just make me sick !! look at you guys in the limo, ... you look like those hip-hop guys who make money over us ! shame on you !
  6. Congrads but one word of advice[ Go to top ]

    Congrads on the Open Source Team. You have worked hard but one word of advice.

    Switch out your Web Service Layer and use 1.6 JVM.

    I have been doing a lot of work on my system to improve perfromance and strongly believe that Streaming API for XML, JVM 1.6 with its performance improvements and using Document Literal along with using primatives (Arrays) should get you to your $70million dollar bonus. If I can get 65KB through the EJB Web service layer and over the internet in under 150 milliseconds (And my logins are under 444 micro seconds over intranet) on a simple P4 then you should be able to do better.

    Good Luck.
    Tony Anecito
    Chief Architect
    MyUniPortal
  7. Forgot to ask[ Go to top ]

    Doesn't open sores revenue rely on that it's too complicated for average schmoe to operate? No wonder Microsoft always wins.
  8. Good Job JBoss team[ Go to top ]

    Congrads to the team again. A lot of hard work went into the project and I am sure the ones like myself who have used it appreciate it!!

    What is going to be interesting to watch is where JBoss can fit into the future of N-Tier computing as more projects for various reasons move away from EJB containers to Servlet Containers to become "light Frameworks" using Spring, Hibernate and In-Memory databases to achieve the performance and reuse hardware.

    Even more interesting will be where SOA really ends up. I suspect it is not where people/comapanies think it is going to end up. I beleive in the next year or so Mobile Services will take on a new meaning and not what most developers think. Thus JBoss, WebLogic and WebSphere are in for a very big surprise in the next year or so.


    Lets see if I am right. I have been doing software development for 20+ years and I bet I am correct in where Architectures (SOA) is going next.


    Again good job JBoss team. Hopefully you can enjoy some time off.
  9. JOnAS[ Go to top ]

    I hope Redhat will still continue to participate to JOnAS development...
  10. JOnAS[ Go to top ]

    Congrats!
    I hope Redhat will still continue to participate to JOnAS development...

    I don't think so.
  11. JOnAS / ObjectWeb[ Go to top ]

    This acquisition will tremendously reinforce Red Hat's profile and position in open source middleware. It also sounds like good news to ObjectWeb: Paul Cormier (Red Had CTO) sits on ObjectWeb's Board of Directors, which means that there is a priviledged communication channel between ObjectWeb and Red Hat - a channel which was missing between ObjectWeb and JBoss, even though the two organizations would meet every now and then.

    http://os3g.blogspot.com/2006/04/red-hat-acquires-jboss.html
  12. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations!

    As much as I'd like to welcome Marc and the rest of JBoss Inc. into the "Under $100 Million Club", I'm sure they are far happier being ineligible.

    Good luck, all!

    geir
  13. Uncle Scam's fat azz.[ Go to top ]

    As much as I'd like to welcome Marc and the rest of JBoss Inc. into the "Under $100 Million Club", I'm sure they are far happier being ineligible.

    Fleury noted something disturbing:
    ...an IPO was possible and indeed planned but in this day and age of “Sarbannes-Oxley” the right M&A provides liquidity and reduces much of the risk.
    This Amerikan law seems facist and anti-competitive -- yet another entry barrier to protect gluttonous and lazy big companies from eager little ones. Republikan-blessed monstrosities such as Enron abused the public's trust, and now innocent startups get suppressed.
  14. Uncle Scam's fat azz.[ Go to top ]

    Unfortunately when I "mark as noisy" I'm getting this exception:

    "Unable to invoke method markNoisy on portal.components.ThreadViewer$Enhance_422@11d47b1[NewsThread/threadViewer]: java.rmi.ServerException: RuntimeException; nested exception is: kodo.util.UserException: Can only perform operation while a transaction is active."

    This message is inappropriate and offensive.
  15. Uncle Scam's fat azz.[ Go to top ]

    This message is inappropriate and offensive.
    It may be wildly off-topic, but inappropriate or offensive?
    Only if you are a Republican and/or Big Government freak who thinks regulation is the end all, be all solution to the worlds ills..
  16. JBoss documentation[ Go to top ]

    Hey, maybe JBoss can get some decent professional documentation at long last. Are you available, Richard M.H.?
  17. Uncle Scam's fat azz.[ Go to top ]

    Wille,

    On second look, its so out there I'll retract the offensive, but I do feel the message is rather inappropriate. Its better suited for another forum.

    Tom
  18. Uncle Scam's fat azz.[ Go to top ]

    Wille,On second look, its so out there I'll retract the offensive, but I do feel the message is rather inappropriate. Its better suited for another forum.Tom

    Absolutely. It's probably best suited for one of those "Go Red Team!", "No, Go Blue Team!" type political forums..
  19. "So to me both SUN and RH are open source "wannabees", or as one of my developers put "open source girly men". They all want to represent themselves as "friends" of open source."

    http://jboss.org/jbossBlog/blog/mfleury/?permalink=5B557AB3231FE396D5C675A1367254DB.txt
  20. "So to me both SUN and RH are open source "wannabees", or as one of my developers put "open source girly men". They all want to represent themselves as "friends" of open source."

    (link to Marc's blog...)
    It would seem that the URL only turns up an empty blog-page.

    Strange.. :)
  21. jboss website getting hammered[ Go to top ]

    looks like the jboss servers are getting hammered or /.-ed.

    peter
  22. Shift of position from Mr. Fleury[ Go to top ]

    It would seem that the URL only turns up an empty blog-page.Strange.. :)

    Google cache, anyone? (i.e. Search on this and then look at the Google cache.)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  23. Shift of position from Mr. Fleury[ Go to top ]

    It would seem that the URL only turns up an empty blog-page.Strange.. :)
    Google cache, anyone? (i.e. Search on this and then look at the Google cache.)Peace,Cameron PurdyTangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java

    Does this mean Mr. Fleury sold out, or did he just buy in?
  24. Does this mean Mr. Fleury sold out, or did he just buy in?

    I'm going to assume RH changed their tune, not Marc... innocent until proven guilty ;-)

    Congrats!
  25. Shift of position from Mr. Fleury[ Go to top ]

    Everybody wants to sell out. Some of us succeed and some of us don't. I think the people at JBoss have earned it.
  26. Shift of position from Mr. Fleury[ Go to top ]

    Everybody wants to sell out. Some of us succeed and some of us don't.

    Amen. For $350 million, I would have sold out and I could even have thrown in some close relatives into the bargain..

    I don't always agree with the sometimes negative rethoric that has come out of the JBoss camp, but credit where credit is due:
    Congrats on creating the "first generation of Open Source millionaires", to quote a recent Business Week article!
  27. Google Cache[ Go to top ]

    What is the date of that post?
  28. Google cache, JBoss blog[ Go to top ]

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache
  29. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    I knew this would happen if they added a recoverable transaction manager!

    Congrats ;-)

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  30. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    I knew this would happen if they added a recoverable transaction manager!

    Congrats ;-)Peace,Cameron PurdyTangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
    You know, I am suffering from a severe case of Deja Vu! Bluestone Software acquired Arjuna Solutions and then mere months later, HP acquires Bluestone.

    Mark.
  31. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    which anticipates accellerating the shift to SOA.
    ....
    What do you think of this change in the J2EE landscape?

    SOA is not the strongest part of Jboss, nor the strongest interest of Jboss at the time. It may change.

    The battle of J2EE landscape has transferred to the battle of operating system's: RedHat-Jboss, IBM-Geronimo, Solaris-SunServer. It will be more difficult for Oracle and other J2EE servers.

    Wei Jiang
    Perfecting Java EE!
  32. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations to Marc, Scott, Sacha, Gavin, Bill, and the rest of the gang! Well done.

    Does this mean you guys are going to be "unbreakable" now as well? :-)

    -Mike
  33. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Well, that was just a question of time, I guess.

    Detlef Schulze
    http://www.kunstbilder-galerie.de
  34. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Joseph,

    Two minor points. According to the quoted article (from Marc):

    - Marc remains responsible for the JBoss organization, not Red Hat's.
    - Better than "acquired", actually JBoss merges with Red Hat.

    :)

    That said, congrats to Marc and his teams for building up such a successful company on top of clever products.
  35. When a public company with a market cap over $5B US pays $350M US for a privately held entitiy, the proper term is "acquired".
  36. Big LOL. Man, that is priceless -- esp. the subject line.
  37. Congragulations![ Go to top ]

    Congragulations to the JBoss team! This is truly an open source success story with no parallel.

    I remember first writing about JBoss and interviewing Marc Fleury back in 2001, when JBoss was a small group of open source developers trying to figure out a way to make their passions pay their bills:
    http://www.theserverside.com/talks/library.tss#fleury

    How things have changed! JBoss truly led a revolution in our industry, and despite various controversies around them, you have to credit them for playing a large role in bringing open source mainstream in enterprise software, which is a good thing for the world as falling IT expenditures means more companies can affort to make more investments in software which means more job security for all of us around the world...

    Floyd
  38. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Oracle - P - Q - Red Hat

    Not too far off. :)
  39. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congrates !!

    This is milestone, i thing in j2ee as well as in j2ee application server market.
  40. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congrats to the JBoss team !!
    Tom, does that now mean you'll start playing golf ? :o)

    -Stephan
  41. I think this is a clear victory of the Open Source business model, apart the merits of a very strong team of developers.

    It's good for RedHat, too.

    Congratulations,
    F.Gianneschi
  42. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations !

    Great news.

    Good luck.

    Manish
  43. Integration is something they do really well, as a GNU/Linux distributor.

    Integrated, out-of-the box commodity software stacks are a bit of a fun game, and Red Hat is the only vendor who's got a full enterprise stack without any proprietary wedges in between (i.e. does not have to pay for and bundle Sun's JVM, though they offer IBM's and BEA's VMs on RHN/extra channel) with JOnAS on gcj/GNU Classpath. I hope they'll pull off the same with JBoss, and have it shipped as part of Fedora Core on gcj.

    There are going to be some interesting times ahead for software stuck with proprietary Java implementations.

    cheers,
    dalibor topic
  44. [blockquote]There are going to be some interesting times ahead for software stuck with proprietary Java implementations.[/blockquote]

    Yeah, we'd rather be stuck with something that works and not some broken classpath crap.
  45. It is a little known fact that gcj/GNU classpath runs the JOnAS conformance tests about as well as your average proprietary VM:

    http://people.redhat.com/~aph/current-jonas-on-gcj-conformance-test-results.html

    "broken classpath crap"? You surely jest.

    cheers,
    dalibor topic
  46. "broken classpath crap"? You surely jest.

    No, we'd rather use the real deal that we can get for free, rather than be stuck with a perpetually broken, unfinished classpath.
  47. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    where are oracle People then ?
  48. Congrats, but...[ Go to top ]

    Is it a good news for the world??
    RedHat with 5B market capital has a long way to prove it is worth of what the market has invested. Its only way to thrive is to solidify its market position up to the monopoly and keep increasing the fees for their softwares. JBoss will help their grand scheme.

    Therefore the future of JBoss looks clear to me. They will create a Red Hat Enterprise version.... and leave the free open source version in the dark, which eventually force people to spend on the software they used to use at no charge. JBoss was handed to a new company. I dont expect the existing biz model to stay with the product.

    Farewell to the long lived good will of JBoss.

    Anyway,
    Thanks for the hard work from JBoss team.
    I loved this product.
  49. Congrats, but...[ Go to top ]

    This is an excellent point. RedHat use to be the defacto standard of linux distribution. People could use it at home, they could slowly introduce it to the IT shops, and eventually the datacenters would need some type of support contract. At the time RedHat was all about "Free" software. Then they went public and decided to "protect" their intelectual property through trademarks and licensing of their software.

    Today, SUSE is starting to become the defacto linux distribution based on the fact that it operates on a "Free" model like RedHat use to. People can use it at home and introduce it to their businesses without large up front costs.

    JBoss has the potential to do something similar with their software. I'm sure there could be a "WhiteHat" (or whatever the knock off distrubutions of RedHat are) version of jboss, but it won't be the same. People will eventually flock to something a bit more free (geronimo perhaps) if this happens.

    Someone else commented on JVM's and their need. I've used bea, IBM and sun jvm. Sun's jvm is the only one that provides stability and a large userbase to help identify issues. GCJ? For production software? That's funny...
  50. RedHat Fedora[ Go to top ]

    Today, SUSE is starting to become the defacto linux distribution based on the fact that it operates on a "Free" model like RedHat use to.

    From what I know, you can continue to use RedHat's fedora
    http://fedora.redhat.com/ which is identical to the RedHat's enterprise install except that you don't get to buy support for this codebase. Other than that it still resembles the free model. So instead of Lamp, just replace the L -> with fedora linux. Now you can add JBoss to that list.
  51. RedHat Fedora[ Go to top ]

    Today, SUSE is starting to become the defacto linux distribution based on the fact that it operates on a "Free" model like RedHat use to.
    From what I know, you can continue to use RedHat's fedora http://fedora.redhat.com/ which is identical to the RedHat's enterprise install except that you don't get to buy support for this codebase. Other than that it still resembles the free model. So instead of Lamp, just replace the L -> with fedora linux. Now you can add JBoss to that list.

    From what I have seen Red Hat and Fedora are pretty strong in the USA where as SUSE is big in mainland Europe. Not sure about other places.

    Anyway congrats to JBoss.
  52. RedHat Fedora[ Go to top ]

    From what I have seen Red Hat and Fedora are pretty strong in the USA where as SUSE is big in mainland Europe. Not sure about other places.

    So this is a transatlantic-partisan effort now? Or as the EUro-peons like to put it?
  53. Congrats, but...[ Go to top ]

    Is it a good news for the world??

    Who is the world?
  54. Congrats, but...[ Go to top ]

    Therefore the future of JBoss looks clear to me. They will create a Red Hat Enterprise version.... and leave the free open source version in the dark, which eventually force people to spend on the software they used to use at no charge. JBoss was handed to a new company. I dont expect the existing biz model to stay with the product. Farewell to the long lived good will of JBoss.

    RedHat has a well established track record for keeping their acquisitions open and healthy, sometimes even more so than they were before the purchase (like with GFS which they contributed to the public domain under the GPL). Sure, there will likely be an enterprise version but if you pay big bucks for it then you are wasting money (same with RedHat Enterprise server). This is nothing new for JBoss though, they already have closed, proprietary offerings on top of the open system like their Operations Network tools (JBoss ON). We'll see if RedHat adopts ON as a standard platform for some of their tools (I think they should).

    I see this as a good thing for the boss in the long run. Stuffy corporate IT orgs will be more willing to buy and use software from a company with a market cap the size of RedHat's than trust a smaller private company like the old JBoss.

    Where I think it gets interesting is to see how IBM responds. IBM has been pushing predominantly RedHat for some time now but this is clearly a shot across the WebSphere bow IMO.

    Just to speculate further, I think this may be the spark that pushes IBM to acquire Novell so they can secure a Linux distro of their own and cram WebSphere on top of it. This will almost be necessary to compete with the RedHat offering that is clearly around the corner, competing directly with Sun's stack OS/App server stack. Definitely puts IBM in a tough position for more WebSphere sales (although I've never understood why companies pay those licenses for such a creaky, clunky product).
  55. Congrats, but...[ Go to top ]

    RedHat has a well established track record for keeping their acquisitions open and healthy, sometimes even more so than they were before the purchase (like with GFS which they contributed to the public domain under the GPL). Sure, there will likely be an enterprise version but if you pay big bucks for it then you are wasting money (same with RedHat Enterprise server). This is nothing new for JBoss though, they already have closed, proprietary offerings on top of the open system like their Operations Network tools (JBoss ON).

    I'm sure they'll have a free version of JBOSS, similar to the LDAP Server they bought from Netscape. They have a commercial , and a free version (Fedora Directory Server).
  56. I believe he contributed alot to the orginal design of JBOS AS.
  57. No, but now that you mention it that sounds kind of reasonable. I mean, as you say I did do a lot of the stuff in JBoss to begin with, like the EJB container and microkernel. That might be worth a mill or two down the line, wouldn't you say? ;-) How 'bout it Marc, have some spare change to share?

    Tell ya what, throw in a mill and I'll even get off your case, permanently. Not to mention that it would make your "we pay OpenSource developers" soundbite much catchier too! How's that for an easter treat! :-)
  58. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$?[ Go to top ]

    No, but now that you mention it that sounds kind of reasonable. I mean, as you say I did do a lot of the stuff in JBoss to begin with, like the EJB container and microkernel. That might be worth a mill or two down the line, wouldn't you say? ;-) How 'bout it Marc, have some spare change to share?Tell ya what, throw in a mill and I'll even get off your case, permanently. Not to mention that it would make your "we pay OpenSource developers" soundbite much catchier too! How's that for an easter treat! :-)

    http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=18524&article_count=192#77805
  59. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$?[ Go to top ]

    No, but now that you mention it that sounds kind of reasonable. I mean, as you say I did do a lot of the stuff in JBoss to begin with, like the EJB container and microkernel. That might be worth a mill or two down the line, wouldn't you say? ;-) How 'bout it Marc, have some spare change to share?Tell ya what, throw in a mill and I'll even get off your case, permanently. Not to mention that it would make your "we pay OpenSource developers" soundbite much catchier too! How's that for an easter treat! :-)
    http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=18524&article_count=192#77805

    Well, Bill, what can I say, I was wrong. Like any other OpenSource developer I should of course step up to the plate when a buck is offered. I mean, duh, who wouldn't.

    Plus, as a special easter offer, gimme a mill and I'll happily stop talking about faked identities, partner extortion, trademark abuse, and illegal copyrights. Wouldn't that make your life sooo much easier? Seriously.
  60. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$?[ Go to top ]

    It's marketing to the capital markets and not to the customer base, but for a company like RedHat, it's much more effective to grow by leveraging the perception in the capital markets than using the more down-to-earth earnings the company actually produces.
  61. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$[ Go to top ]

    Bill burke pointed to a reference of rickard not signing the jboss componsation deal!

    Bill,

    well I did sign the "compensation" documents. But that did not stop me, Mort Bay and Jetty being blanked - just like we were removed from the contributors list.

    We've never received any responses to our emails and faxes.

    Mort Bay and Jetty supported JBoss for the two years that it took to take it from a "husband and wife in the garage" show to being a serious J2EE contender. We contributed 9% of the CVS code base and allowed JBoss to claim a full stack support infrastructure. In those two years, we earnt $600 for supporting JBoss and were given the FANTASTIC promise that we would be paid for any other bugs we fixed (hardly an insentive to write good code).

    As our share of the jboss good times, we were offered a piddly amount of jboss frequent flyer points that were meant to some day turn into equity. Marc, sitting on 70% at that time, appeared to be amazed that the shoulders that he was standing on, wanted a bit of the pie! So we parted ways.

    None the less, we did sign up for those frequent flyer points.

    So I guess the cheque is in the mail?
  62. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$[ Go to top ]

    You would think that if Microsoft temps could successfully sue for a piece of the action although not officially employees and win, then those who committed significant chunks of code and put in material time on JBoss over the years should somehow benefit too. I'm no lawyer though.
  63. Did Rickard Oberg get any $$$?[ Go to top ]

    That almost made my morning, thanks Rickard :-D
  64. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    1) Steal Underpants
    2) ???
    3) Profit!
  65. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Ok, so Red Hat made it and not Oracle. Did anyone have them on the bill?

    However, if Red Hat follows its current management style I don't see a bright future for JBoss:

    Red Hat is following an "open crippleware" management style: A few years ago you could download the standard Red Hat Linux distributions. You could even burn them and sell them for a small fee (that is what is allowed after the GPL). But then Red Hat decided to sue several companies for using their trademark (one point where both firms have something in common). This lead to the invention of something like Green Shoe Linux which was basically a Red Hat distribution but without its name. Today you can only download a crippled (speak community edition) version of Red Hat Linux called Fedora (or if you are smart you can use CentOS).

    Also Red Hat has in the past acquired J2EE technology companies: Anyone here knows Greenspun's Arsdigita? After ACS was ported over from TCL to J2EE Red Hat acquired Arsdigita. They shut down the great Arsdigita site, the source wasn't downloadable anymore and today ACS has completely vanished from earth (at least this is my perception).

    I hope that this time Red Hat will do better...
  66. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Ok, so Red Hat made it and not Oracle. Did anyone have them on the bill? However, if Red Hat follows its current management style I don't see a bright future for JBoss:Red Hat is following an "open crippleware" management style: A few years ago you could download the standard Red Hat Linux distributions. You could even burn them and sell them for a small fee (that is what is allowed after the GPL). But then Red Hat decided to sue several companies for using their trademark (one point where both firms have something in common). This lead to the invention of something like Green Shoe Linux which was basically a Red Hat distribution but without its name. Today you can only download a crippled (speak community edition) version of Red Hat Linux called Fedora (or if you are smart you can use CentOS).Also Red Hat has in the past acquired J2EE technology companies: Anyone here knows Greenspun's Arsdigita? After ACS was ported over from TCL to J2EE Red Hat acquired Arsdigita. They shut down the great Arsdigita site, the source wasn't downloadable anymore and today ACS has completely vanished from earth (at least this is my perception).I hope that this time Red Hat will do better...

    Well depends on what they do with it, the competition is tough in the J2EE area, if they start to play tricks then you can see people switching away.
    For a shut down jboss, there is geronimo at the start.
    For a shut down or closed Hibernate there is a fork, or OpenJPA (which is going into apache incubation as it seems)
    even seam can be replaced.
    It is up to RedHat, if they follow the current jboss model in the future they have a bright future with that divsion, if not oh well. Others might take over.
  67. Congrats and...[ Go to top ]

    It's a wonder what a few years (and dare I say it, a few dollars) will do to change people's opinions.

    Snarkiness aside, congratulations to the JBoss team.
  68. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Congrats.

    Really good news.

    David
  69. Congrats![ Go to top ]

    Congrats guys on a job accomplished by few!

    Good luck Gavin, Bill, and the rest of the team!

    -Lou
  70. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    CONGRATS to Mark, Gavin and the rest of the JBOSS team.

    - Muthu Ramadoss
    http://groups.google.com/group/etoe
  71. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    I wonder what this will mean for JBoss partners. Anyway, can't wait to see Hani's take on this :)

    -Ryan
  72. Hani's response[ Go to top ]

    I wonder what this will mean for JBoss partners. Anyway, can't wait to see Hani's take on this :)-Ryan

    Hmmmm... Let me guess, his take will involve genitals and words he looked up in the thesaurus. He will then bash Marc and Bill. Oh! the suspense!

    :o)
  73. Is it a good news to learn that Mr Fleury earned millions of dollars with the work of the JBoss Open Source Community?
    Is Open Source the 21th century slavery?

    Developpers, continue to contribute to the Open Source Community! You will work hard, never make a penny, and help some nice guys like Marc to earn millions!
  74. You will work hard, never make a penny, and help some nice guys like Marc to earn millions!

    Dear Bruno.

    Nothing stops you to provide sevices around jboss products. If you will do that well, JBoss Inc. fail and you become a boss. Until that time, your are just jealouse.
  75. You will work hard, never make a penny, and help some nice guys like Marc to earn millions!
    Dear Bruno.Nothing stops you to provide sevices around jboss products. If you will do that well, JBoss Inc. fail and you become a boss. Until that time, your are just jealouse.
    That's not entirely true. If you want to provide services around *bleep* you have to do the Prince-trick and never refer to the product by name, as the trademark of *bleep* is owned by *bleep* Inc. who can sue thy sorry ass for using it.

    At least this is the case if you're in Europe, as demonstrated last year. Not sure about the US.

    (See Marc, if you gave me a mill bucks you wouldn't have to read this kind of stuff about *bleep*. Tempting, aint it?)
  76. Jboss problem in EU[ Go to top ]

    Well, as I understand it, the whole problem in Europe with JBoss was that the company in question was trying to relabel JBoss.com-owned documentation as their own, in violation of a contract the company had signed. IMO, that's fair - the training material isn't open sourced.

    Now, I could be completely wrong - I'm not in possession of "insider information" here by any means. Just trying to point out that there are two sides to the story.
  77. Jboss problem in EU[ Go to top ]

    Well, as I understand it, the whole problem in Europe with JBoss was that the company in question was trying to relabel JBoss.com-owned documentation as their own, in violation of a contract the company had signed. IMO, that's fair - the training material isn't open sourced.Now, I could be completely wrong - I'm not in possession of "insider information" here by any means. Just trying to point out that there are two sides to the story.
    There may be two sides of the story, but the above is not one of them. Where did you get the idea that it was about relabeling of documentation? AFAIK that has never come up in any discussion anywhere before.

    The whole problem centers around the fact that the EU trademark "JBoss" covers both services and product (compare with e.g. "BEA" vs "WebLogic" where it is clear what is product and what is service). So if someone says "we offer JBoss support" then JBoss Inc. can claim that it refers to "services" when the initial intent was to refer to the product. And there's no way to tell the difference if you only use the word "JBoss". Of course, you could fix that by always explicitly say "we offer support for the JBoss Application Server", but it's kind of silly to have to do that.
  78. Jboss problem in EU[ Go to top ]

    Where did I get the information? From people, of course. I asked, and various people (whom I'm not at liberty to name or quote, unfortunately, as the communication wasn't official) offered that explanation as a result. However, these people *were* in a position to know something about the lawsuit, and just because other sources didn't broadcast the information apart from the sensationalist aspect doesn't mean their explanation isn't plausible or possibly true.

    Now, having said that, it has to be noted that I don't *know* for sure. It could be that the suit has a completely different explanation and also that JBoss is a den of EEEEEVIL. But somehow I doubt it's that simple.
  79. Jboss problem in EU[ Go to top ]

    Where did I get the information? From people, of course. I asked, and various people (whom I'm not at liberty to name or quote, unfortunately, as the communication wasn't official) offered that explanation as a result. However, these people *were* in a position to know something about the lawsuit, and just because other sources didn't broadcast the information apart from the sensationalist aspect doesn't mean their explanation isn't plausible or possibly true.
    Ok, I see. I'm afraid you've been lied to then. Oh well.
  80. Jboss problem in EU[ Go to top ]

    So if someone says "we offer JBoss support" then JBoss Inc. can claim that it refers to "services" when the initial intent was to refer to the product. And there's no way to tell the difference if you only use the word "JBoss". Of course, you could fix that by always explicitly say "we offer support for the JBoss Application Server", but it's kind of silly to have to do that.
    Why is it silly? Compare with "Mercedes Benz service station". Is it an official DC franchise or just two dirty guys who think they know how to repair cars?
  81. Yes, and now get back to work Kunta Kinta
  82. Is it a good news to learn that Mr Fleury earned millions of dollars with the work of the JBoss Open Source Community?

    Yes, it's good news that someone can still make millions of dollars in this industry. Actually, it's great news -- it means that there is still a good deal of perceived value in what this industry is doing.

    Just think how many companies will be started, trying to cash in on this crazy trend. Out of those hundreds of companies, a couple might even do something lasting and worth-while, and maybe they'll be lucky enough to get acquired (or have an IPO) and have a news item about it that will inspire some more people to follow in their daring foot-steps.

    Technology is a land with limitless frontiers. Go west, young man.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  83. Technology is a land with limitless frontiers. Go west, young man.
    I thought space was the "final frontier". Engage.
  84. "Yes, it's good news that someone can still make millions of dollars in this industry. Actually, it's great news -- it means that there is still a good deal of perceived value in what this industry is doing." - Cameron

    There has been several recent acquistions showing that there is still significant perceived value in the J2EE space especially around middleware and application management.

    - RedHat acquires JBoss: 350 million

    - CA acquires WilyTech: 375 million
    http://www.wilytech.com/news/releases/060307.html

    - BMC Software to Acquire Identify Software: 150 million
    http://www.identify.com/news/stories/BMC-release.php?HP

    Cameron, I am sure as soon as SOA gains traction there will be many companies banging on Tangosol's doors (if not already). The mistakes of the early CORBA deployment days are about to be repeated.


    Kind regards

    William Louth
    JXInsight Product Architect
    JInspired

    "Enterprise Java Business Application Performance Management"
    http://www.jinspired.com
  85. Yes, it's good news that someone can still make millions of dollars in this industry. And I am very impressed by the work the JBoss team has made.

    But I think the Open Source Community will have to make a difference between "business" Open Source Projects (when the project leader keeps the rights on the sources - in order to sell them whenever possible, without giving a penny to the developpers) and the real Open Source Projects (people wanting to share their work with others in order to developp a better software).

    If the OS community does not take this turn, I guess less and less developpers will get involved in OS projects.
  86. Yes, it's good news that someone can still make millions of dollars in this industry. And I am very impressed by the work the JBoss team has made.But I think the Open Source Community will have to make a difference between "business" Open Source Projects (when the project leader keeps the rights on the sources - in order to sell them whenever possible, without giving a penny to the developpers).

    Last time I checked JBOSS was licensed under LGPL.
  87. Is it a good news to learn that Mr Fleury earned millions of dollars with the work of the JBoss Open Source Community?Is Open Source the 21th century slavery?Developpers, continue to contribute to the Open Source Community! You will work hard, never make a penny, and help some nice guys like Marc to earn millions!

    If it's so easy to start a successful enterprise, then do it. How many risks do you think they have taken? Would you put your house and all your saving on a small starting company which operations rely on Open Source Software? I am not a JBoss zealot, in fact I have never used it but I must recognize it takes a lot of courage to do what they did. And they were a major contribuator to the professional Open Source movement we enjoy so much in the Java community. Do you think for instance Hibernate would have become such a good product in the long run ? Gavin stated several times he didn't have enough time to evolve it the way he wanted before joining JBOSS because like everyone else, he had bills to pay and work full time.

    For those who haven't still got it, Open Source is just a new economic model more suited to IT and it's certainly not the latest hippy movement. Nobody force you to contribute! If you do, it's because you will get something in return. It might just be fun, who knows? It's all your decision. Comparing that to slavery is totally crazy in my opinion.

    There are a lot of plus to submit patches to OS product you work with. Annoying bugs get fixed very quickly, the product evolves more quickly in a adaptive manner and the product's market share increases (something very important when dealing with technologies). I have paid a lot of money to have this kind of commercial product in the past but now I can honestly say OS products do it better and usually for free.

    So to summarize, this is a win-win situation. If you worked for free then it was your decision not JBOSS's decision.
  88. Is it a good news to learn that Mr Fleury earned millions of dollars with the work of the JBoss Open Source Community?

    Is Open Source the 21th century slavery?Developpers, continue to contribute to the Open Source Community! You will work hard, never make a penny, and help some nice guys like Marc to earn millions!

    JBoss gives the software away for free and offers an infrastructure to allow for open development. So the work that you and I would do is in fact freely available. JBoss makes their money off of providing value adds, again, not the software itself, but value adds-- the things we are not providing around training, documentation, and support.
  89. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    Redhat paid lot's of bucks for JBoss. I see were the value could have been for Oracle, but Oracle seemingly did'nt want to pay as much. But what's the value proposition of JBoss to a OS "Vendor"? Pay that much for a "ageing" EJB Container? What more? JBoss Portal, jBPM, Hibernate, Cache, Transaction, Groups, Rules? I don't get it. As a Enterprice User i certainly don't want to be hooked in with Linux to a "monolithic" Middleware Suite. I want choice. Also within the J2EE Stack. Choice was what attracted me to Linux in the first place.
  90. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    Well, that's an interesting question.

    It is my belief that Red Hat could benefit even more from this acquisition than Oracle could have.

    Of course JBoss AS is just an non-spectacular J2EE appserver but hey Red Hat manages to make money out of Linux which is just an average open source unix clone. Also on second thought operating systems and J2EE appservers have something in common, one could also say that appservers are j2ee operating systems, they provide a basic software infrastructure for j2ee applications, manage resources... So Red Hat could be able to make money out of JBoss.

    But why would someone pay that much for JBoss?

    For the people? But they can quit their job almost anytime (especially when they are millionairs after this acquisition).

    For the support business? Maybe.

    For the trademark? Possibly.

    To open further opportunities in the enterprise sector? Possibly.

    But I think these points don't make up for that much money. I don't think we know the whole story yet.

    So my best bet is that in the future we will see JBoss products being sold in expensive boxes (like Red Hat does with their linux distribution). And possibly we won't be able to download everything for free in the future... Time will show.
  91. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    I thought this was an interesting read, but I am no expert on RH's business model by any means...

    http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/01/red-hat-mother-of-all-open-source.html

    Anyone like to comment related to JBoss?

    Dan
  92. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    Maybe there is some hope. Redhat make's money, which is ok.

    Better even is that they do give also some of it back to the community, in that it invests in making Linux better.

    Maybe that could also happen with some of the JBoss projects. So instead of branching, copyright abuse, faked identities etc. we would have the code back and one could actually start working together again.

    But that would mean that the JBoss guys would need to look for a new job ;-) .... good riddance....
  93. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    It is my belief that Red Hat could benefit even more from this acquisition than Oracle could have.

    [..]

    But why would someone pay that much for JBoss?

    http://jroller.com/page/cpurdy?entry=why_redhat_bought_jboss

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  94. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    Short and precise analysis:
    It's marketing to the capital markets and not to the customer base, but for a company like RedHat, it's much more effective to grow by leveraging the perception in the capital markets than using the more down-to-earth earnings the company actually produces.

    But then i don't understand the congrats and hurrays in this forum, because it's just about some few guys playing the markets and getting richer.

    And not about a getting "better" J2EE Stack or a "better" Platform for us guys actually using the stuff....
  95. Two sides to the coin[ Go to top ]

    Short and precise analysis:
    It's marketing to the capital markets and not to the customer base, but for a company like RedHat, it's much more effective to grow by leveraging the perception in the capital markets than using the more down-to-earth earnings the company actually produces.
    But then i don't understand the congrats and hurrays in this forum, because it's just about some few guys playing the markets and getting richer. And not about a getting "better" J2EE Stack or a "better" Platform for us guys actually using the stuff....

    Well. Isn't that just the blessing and the curse of Open Source. You dont know, do you? Using OSS and working with it you take a chance. You might get lucky or you might not. The Jboss people got lucky.
  96. There is that word again...[ Go to top ]

    Short and precise analysis:
    It's marketing to the capital markets and not to the customer base, but for a company like RedHat, it's much more effective to grow by leveraging the perception in the capital markets than using the more down-to-earth earnings the company actually produces.
    But then i don't understand the congrats and hurrays in this forum, because it's just about some few guys playing the markets and getting richer. And not about a getting "better" J2EE Stack or a "better" Platform for us guys actually using the stuff....
    Well. Isn't that just the blessing and the curse of Open Source. You dont know, do you? Using OSS and working with it you take a chance. You might get lucky or you might not. The Jboss people got lucky.

    You may choose to lump the confluence of events that positioned Marc Fleury et al. with the knowledge, motivation, and talent to pursue the application server market into a single word...luck -- alright. But to characterize their concerted efforts and resulting string of successes over a period of many years is, in a single word, wrong-headed.

    “It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get”
       --Arnold Palmer

    “I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.”
       --Thomas Jefferson

    “Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”
       --Roman philosopher, mid-1st century AD
  97. Where's the value[ Go to top ]

    Where's the value? That's not hard to figure out.

    As reported by the New York Times, 40% of the asking price ($350mil) was paid in cash. 60% in stock. And there is a $70mil pop for some measure of performance down the road. Well, let's take $420mil as the price. With $5.31bil in market value, and a 9% rise in value to get there after this was announced, you're talking about an increase in shareholder value of about $500mil. That's an immediate return on investment of $80mil.

    Regardless of what you may think, RedHat appears to have gotten a bargain.

    Congrats to Marc Fleury & the gang. But I'm not the only one who would like to see the gang kick in $1mil to Rickard. He is as much a cause of JBoss Inc's success as anyone short of Marc Fleury himself. Let's see it, Marc. $750k from you, and ask your lead developers to kick in an additional $250k? Seems reasonable enough.
  98. Web On Linux[ Go to top ]

    Grt News..i am really happy cos finally a opensource company is being acquired by a true opensource company,with a deal of not changing the customers rights.RedHat tried with Jonas ,but that was not for Windows Platform.I am sure that it wont give any kind of support of distribute the stack for Windows platform as it will effect its own distribution of Linux.So Finally the Web will Float on Linux.

    http://lokeshpant.blogspot.com
  99. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Thanks to everyone for their kind words in this thread :-)
  100. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Thanks to everyone for their kind words in this thread :-)

    Yes, thank you everyone. We hope to see you all in Vegas!!

    -Jason
  101. JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    Good show.
    1. This means more competetion to infrastructure vendors providing middleware services (Sun-JES, MS-.Net, IBM-Websphere).

    2. Vendors like IBM had a strong Linux (Read Red Hat) strategy. Will they go with someone else now (SuSE?)

    /a
    http://apoorv.info
  102. What is the estimated market share for JBoss?
    Combining RH Enterprise Linux w/ JBoss app server brings a combined market share that could very well make RH a good candidate for acquisition by IBM.
  103. What is the estimated market share for JBoss?Combining RH Enterprise Linux w/ JBoss app server brings a combined market share that could very well make RH a good candidate for acquisition by IBM.

    Last numbers I *heard* were back in january 2005. They asked several people what application servers they were using. JBOSS was coming first with 34% just 1% ahead of IBM WebSphere at 33%. BEA WebLogic had 28% and Oracle 22%. Of course some people were probably using more then one server since if you add the numbers, you get a total of 117%.

    If anyone has more recent numbers please post them, I would be interested :)
  104. Too funny!
    JBoss Number 1 in the world!
    Even Marc Fleury will never dare saying that kind of stuff!
    Please add pointers...
    JBoss is rarely used in production, as far as I know.
    And it does NOT mean that JBoss is a poor product.
    They may have a few percent of the J2EE app server market.
    The only serious figures I found on the web are (I did not ffound recent figures) :
  105. http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2004/jw-0906-iw-enterprise.html
  106. Even on linux, JBoss is not the leader : http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=25600126
  107. Old one :
    http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=12595
  • Too funny!JBoss Number 1 in the world!Even Marc Fleury will never dare saying that kind of stuff!Please add pointers...JBoss is rarely used in production, as far as I know.And it does NOT mean that JBoss is a poor product.They may have a few percent of the J2EE app server market.The only serious figures I found on the web are (I did not ffound recent figures) :
  • http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2004/jw-0906-iw-enterprise.html
  • Even on linux, JBoss is not the leader : http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=25600126
  • Old one : http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=12595

  • http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2006/tc20060209_810527.htm
    Its software has been downloaded from the Internet about 16 million times, and its application server -- the software behind Web sites -- is tied with IBM's comparable product as the most widely used, according to a study by BZ Media. JBoss could fetch as much as $400 million, although there's disagreement over price, and discussions could still unravel, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    http://www.fcw.com/article90246-08-22-05-Print
    JBoss is also challenging IBM and BEA in market share, according to one market research firm. Respondents to a November 2004 BZ Research survey gave JBoss' application server an edge over IBM and BEA offerings.

    When asked what Java application servers were in use at their companies or the companies for which they consulted, 34.8 percent of the respondents identified JBoss. In comparison, 33.9 percent cited WebSphere, and 28.7 identified WebLogic.

    And so Marc Fleury would never pretend they are the number one ???
    Well here what he wrote a couple days ago on his blog
    http://jboss.org/jbossBlog/blog/mfleury/
    JBoss, Inc. has number one market share in middleware and we are blowing out our sales and growth forecasts.

    Maybe JBOSS is not number #1 and those numbers aren't right but saying it's impossible that JBOSS is the leader is totally wrong. Some studies place it #1 in market share. Bruno, I don't mean to bash you but do some research before saying things like JBOSS keep the right on source or JBOSS is never used in production. I know a lot of places where JBOSS is used in production.

    * By the way, I am not a JBOSS lover or anything like that. I have never used it. I just can't stand people who says anything about things they don't know and don't do some research fist to validate their facts.
  • Sorry, Alexandre, I think it is difficult to compare downloads to real boughts.
    A lot of people are downloading for evaluating the software.
    That is why JBoss is not included in market share analysis.
    I have been working for almost 10 years in IT services and never seen a JBoss in production.
    Maybe, it is due to the fact I have only worked for major companies.
    I have seen developpers and students using it for tests but not in real production.
    This does not mean that JBoss is not used in production.
    But, I think, and it is my opinion (not the "Truth"), that JBoss is not the J2EE app server leader.
    Even in case of limited budgets, JBoss was systematically evinced from the final list.
    And, I repeat it, it is not due to technical facts or poor quality.
    I think it is due to frightened managers. If you choose IBM and have problems with IBM, no one will bash you. If you choose JBoss, it may be more difficult for you.

    And about Marc Fleury, I apologize, I have under-estimated this guy. He can say anything, and argue with everyone (including Red Hat), read this former blog (with Google cache). But if you can find the JBoss revenue and margins...
  • Too funny!JBoss Number 1 in the world! Even Marc Fleury will never dare saying that kind of stuff!

    Maybe JBOSS is not number #1 and those numbers aren't right but saying it's impossible that JBOSS is the leader is totally wrong. Some studies place it #1 in market share.

    It really depends how you measure market share. JBoss may be #1 for downloads, for example. By number of servers deployed on, it probably is very competitive because of its cost, but there are no real numbers measuring that, and in many cases it is just being used as a fancy Tomcat server. (That's not a dig at JBoss -- the same is often true for WebSphere and WebLogic, in that deployments are often just glorified web servers.)

    Unfortunately, what we have is a web poll that JBoss has been touting as the basis for their "we're number one" marketing campaign, which makes the entire thing a bit of a joke. That they've been able to build some perception of success from a web poll is a sign of marketing genius, but it doesn't doesn't make it fact.

    On the other hand, in the SMB market, particularly outside the USA and western Europe, I think JBoss (as with any free app server) is very compelling. Same thing for packaged applications (JBoss as an OEM component). So by some measurement, I would not be surprised to see very wide-spread use of JBoss -- in production. And those apps are ones that would otherwise have likely been done on a different platform if open source Java stacks didn't exist, so Tomcat, JBoss, and other open source products have definitely helped significantly to expand this market.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java
  • JBoss acquired by Red Hat[ Go to top ]

    This is great news for the Georgia Department of Taxation and those with Redhat stock... oh and JBoss principals and consultants. What does it mean to the opensource app server space. As much as I like Redhat, part of the JBoss story and sometimes rant, was Windows support and Sun JVM support.

    At a recent Spring users group meeting in Philadelphia on the topic of SOA, JBoss was dismissed as going their own way (my take). The focus was on ServiceMix and JBI.

    SOA is causing an alignment of components across separate projects. I see Apache, JBoss and to some degree codehaus as emerging with suites. Some more tightly coupled. With JBoss becoming more tightly coupled to a JVM and OS does this not change the product. Bluestone anyone?

    I would think this would actually increase Geronimo adoption given its JBI direction. Yes, Geronimo is a front for IBM to some extent (CORBA obsession) but I see a cleaner decoupled future with it.
  • http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/10/fleury_redhat_critic/
  • Who cares?[ Go to top ]

    What percentage of web applications use JTA b/c they truly have a distributed transaction? Oh about 0.5%


    What percentage of web applications use JMS? Oh about 3%
    BTW why not use ActiveMQ. It is easier to setup and a lot faster.

    Most web apps can get away nicely with Spring, Hibernate and Tomcat. They just don't need or use JBoss.

    EJB 3 is a joke.

    see http://www.jroller.com/page/killjoy?entry=boycott_ejb3
  • Who cares?[ Go to top ]

    Wow, that's pretty impressive that you succeeded to evaluate every Web project on this planet Earth. Even went over the requirements and performed an architectural assessment on the technologies used.

    Perhaps, Saturn's Web projects may need to use EJBs and JMS because of the many moons...

    Although, the J2EE Evil Empire will be defeated by the Spring forces soon and Saturn would be saved anyway.

    May the force be with you!
  • Let the class warfare begin[ Go to top ]

    And of course the europeans will be giddy to start it.

    "How dare Fleury make that kind of money. Why we need government intervention. We need the EU to intervene against evil, captalist americans".
  • When I heard the news I couldn't help but think about the announced cooperation with Microsoft, see

    http://www.jboss.com/pdf/press/microsoft.pdf

    Very beneficial for Microsoft since JBoss is a successful app server and Microsoft wants to promote windows as a server platform.

    Now redhat acquires jboss. I guess this means better integration with redhat in particular and linux in general. Now what will happen to the 'announced interoperability goals' with windows server?

    This is a very interesting chess game indeed!
  • this deal stinks[ Go to top ]

    im surprised at the positive response to this move by jboss. i think they have been terribly dishonest with the open source community. jboss was built on the philosophy of open source where everyone could contribute to the development of an excellent product for the benefit of the community. there would have been nothing wrong with this deal if jboss had been open about their intentions from the beginning. it was obvious they were on the way to selling out as soon as they started offering the jboss network and making deals with microsoft, both completely unnecessary. the example of how to behave properly in the open source world is apache.