As referenced on many news wires (including Yahoo) and Sun itself, Sun Microsystems has announced that its board of directors has appointed Jonathan Schwartz as the Company's chief Executive Officer.

Schwartz, 40, succeeds Scott McNealy, 51, who will continue serving as chairman of the board and a full time employee, devoted to expanding market opportunities for Sun around the globe. Schwartz also retains the title of president.

From a ZDNet article on the subject:

Schwartz, 40, said the main difference under his leadership will be a greater emphasis on "growth and financial performance, now that the technological performance and customer performance is back at a level we think is reasonable," speaking on the conference call.

Sun's stock price rose roughly nine percent after announcement of the news.

So how do people think this will impact Sun, long-term? What should we expect from Schwartz, a very outspoken proponent of industry participation and open source?

Sun invented Java and gives it for free. That is the first big thing for freee from any big company, not from IBM, not from Microsoft. That started the "Hype of FREE", many things are or were free. I have been enjoy it. But for a company, Sun has not made money from Java nor J2EE. Meanwhile, IBM, BEA and others make a lot of money from Java. It is strange.

Hope the Sun will shine again.

Wei Jiang
Perfecting Java EE!

Forbes here - http://www.forbes.com/home/technology/2006/04/25/sun-microsystems-linux_cz_dl_0425sun.html reckons that Linux killed Sun by stopping it from selling SunOS, later Solaris. They also think that If they'd open-sourced SunOS, they'd have killed Linux. Well, I don't think so. IBM and others are making a lot of money from Linux and Sun isn't. If Sun had open-sources SunOS, IBM would make a lot of money on SunOS and Sun wouldn't.

It's just that Sun are wubbish at selling and they are also rubbish at figuring what to sell and to whom. Most of the Java-selling in the recent years has been done by IBM. And they don't target us developers, they sell to the executives. And also they don't sell so much technology (Websphere at that price is a tricky one to sell anyway) but they sell services.

Sun's been unbelievably slow to understand that what makes money is not superior technology, but selling services. Only recently they've understood that the money comes from promises and started to build VB-like tools like Sun Studio Creator.

Sun invented Java and gives it for free. That is the first big thing for free from any big company, not from IBM, not from Microsoft. That started the "Hype of FREE", many things are or were free.

Getting market share for a new product or technology through a loss-leader is an established way of doing business. Sun is neither the first nor the last company to do that.

I have been enjoy it. But for a company, Sun has not made money from Java nor J2EE. Meanwhile, IBM, BEA and others make a lot of money from Java.

Sun certainly made a *lot* of money selling hardware for running Java applications during the IT boom. Probably way more than IBM/BEA made selling their app server software.

Also, I believe Sun does charge ISVs for licenses for some Java technologies such as J2EE and J2ME.

Also, I believe Sun does charge ISVs for licenses for some Java technologies such as J2EE and J2ME.

Really? That's probably news for a couple of thousand ISVs or so..

Also, I believe Sun does charge ISVs for licenses for some Java technologies such as J2EE and J2ME.

Really? That's probably news for a couple of thousand ISVs or so..

If you are an implementer of J2EE you have to pay Sun for the license, and it's not exactly a token amount (for BEA at least). The same thing is true for the J2SE license, and - I assume - the J2ME license and other Java technologies.

I'm not attempting to moralize here - Sun certainly has to get its investment back somehow.

Henrik Ståhl
BEA Systems

If you are an implementer of J2EE you have to pay Sun for the license, and it's not exactly a token amount (for BEA at least). The same thing is true for the J2SE license, and - I assume - the J2ME license and other Java technologies.I'm not attempting to moralize here - Sun certainly has to get its investment back somehow.Henrik StåhlBEA Systems

Of couse, I just reacted at what sounded like a blanket statement about Sun charging ISV's if they make a Java-application (and not a J2EE server), which is not true.

Of course you are free to implement your own JVM or J2EE server without paying Sun as well. It's just that you may not be able to call it just that, and it wont have the quality stamp of certification.

Of course you are free to implement your own JVM or J2EE server without paying Sun as well. It's just that you may not be able to call it just that, and it wont have the quality stamp of certification.

Sorta. That's what Sun's PR wants you to believe. ;)

Sun's position on legality of independent implementations has historically been very murky, as that allowed them to squeeze (commercial) implementors for the royalties, as JBoss found out.

The ASF, among other places, had some fighting to do with Sun to make sure, for example, that they could actually implement JCP-driven specifications under an open source license and ship it, as Sun, while apparently noone was watching, had managed to turn the JCP into a place where no open source & royalty-free implementations of the specs were possible. See http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-04-2002/jw-0412-opensource.html and http://www.servlets.com/blog/archives/000028.html .

In the wave of the recent rebranding of Sun as a huge friend of open source, there have been several improvements in that area. I am not sure if Sun's current openness can be trusted to last, though, given that it's still the Hamilton-clan calling the shots at Sun wrt Java & its development towards an open standard.

cheers,
dalibor topic

Oh dear. Someone younger than me and with a lot more hair has become head of Sun.

I feel old.

It's here: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html

Look for "Headline: Sun Develops Java" and read from there.

By posting links to crappy blogs, you are just phishing for Google ads.

By posting links to crappy blogs, you are just phishing for Google ads.

Did you read the blog? It's actually quite good - and I didn't see any google ads. And even if I had, considering there was value as an (imho)insightful article, I would simply call this entrepreneural capitalism. Had it gone to a porn site, then that would be phishing - but it would probably get more clicks. lol.

By posting links to crappy blogs, you are just phishing for Google ads.

Dude. Take a chill pill. First, that's not the poster's blog. Second, there aren't any Google ads in sight. Third, the post he linked to is relevant. Fourth, Joel on Software is actually a pretty good blog. Think before you speak. Or post.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. --Mark Twain

Thanks for the feedback. I apologize for being a little cryptic.

I'm not at all affiliated with Joel Spolsky, and I'm certainly not phishing. I just like his writing style, and I think he's pretty insightful. He has some interesting comments about how Sun may have shot itself in the foot, and the sorts of challenges a new CEO may face.

What jumps out at me in this story is the 38,000 employees of Sun. How long will it be before the shoe drops for all of these people employed by these companies trading in the low single digits? (Lucent is another good example). Usually changing the CEO means cutting heads, as in the recent case of Mark Hurd taking over at HP.

What jumps out at me in this story is the 38,000 employees of Sun. How long will it be before the shoe drops for all of these people employed by these companies trading in the low single digits?

Yes, because we all know that share price is the defining value of a company. That's why Berkshire Hathaway at $86,950.00 could buy over 17,000 companies the size of Sun at $4.99.

On the other hand, it would only take three consecutive 2:1 reverse splits, and Sun could buy Microsoft at $27!

(Do I have to put an "end sarcasm" tag here?)

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java

That's why Berkshire Hathaway at $86,950.00 could buy over 17,000 companies the size of Sun at $4.99.On the other hand, it would only take three consecutive 2:1 reverse splits, and Sun could buy Microsoft at $27!

What ?! You're good at this too ? And what does this have to do with shared memories and stuff ?! :-))

</endSarcasm>

You need to take a course in stocks. Just because Berkshire doesn't split their stock, doesn't mean that they can buy 17,000 Sun's. Berkshire market cap (ie the sum of all of their shares, ie the true worth of the company) is $133 billion dollars. Sun is worth $17 billion. But keep in mind that Berkshire has been around a lot longer than sun.

Mike

Yes, because we all know that share price is the defining value of a company. That's why Berkshire Hathaway at $86,950.00 could buy over 17,000 companies the size of Sun at $4.99.On the other hand, it would only take three consecutive 2:1 reverse splits, and Sun could buy Microsoft at $27!(Do I have to put an "end sarcasm" tag here?)Peace,Cameron PurdyTangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java

If you want to claim bias in the stock market, fine. Just look at the economic denominator of earnings/employee which looks like:

SUNW 12000
IBM 51119
MSFT 295737.70

Yes, because we all know that share price is the defining value of a company. That's why Berkshire Hathaway at $86,950.00 could buy over 17,000 companies the size of Sun at $4.99.On the other hand, it would only take three consecutive 2:1 reverse splits, and Sun could buy Microsoft at $27!

(Do I have to put an "end sarcasm" tag here?)

If you want to claim bias in the stock market, fine.

Maybe you noticed the line in my post about the "end sarcasm" tag? ;-)

Peace,

Cameron Purdy
Tangosol Coherence: Clustered Shared Memory for Java

Here's the news: http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B4745416E%2DC3A0%2D4208%2D8B83%2D1321E371A4F9%7D&source=blq%2Fyhoo&dist=yhoo&siteid=yhoo

Sun's New Boss: The Same as the Old Boss?

cheers,
dalibor topic

Hi pony tail man, remember your fancy idea of per/employee pricing...the Java Enterprise System...is it still ALIVE ?

Hope you can cut most of the software product teams which keep creating non-integrated (and hard-to-integrate) products. We all know JES is a collection of individual products bought from many other ISV. Sun has a really bad record on merge other comp.

Sun should give up most software biz to save money. My experience tell me only Solaris, Directory Server, Web Server, and Messaging Server are "good" products. Ironically, they happen to be written in native language (majorly in C/C++, not in Java) and those Netscape engr always do great job, much better than other Sun-badged Java developers creating crapware (Portal, AppServer, Identity...). hm... Sun even has a Active Server Page engine...a Instant Messaging product.....cut!cut!cut!

Open Source them doesn't mean you solve the problem. Nobody will help Sun to "grow" those bits. SI/ISV will abandon Sun due to Market reality, we don't want to invest an engr on Sun SW because a sharp learning curve with low return. There are no Certificate for most products, the support quality is out of control.

Finally, Jonathan, please not to rebranding your products too often. Netscape, iPlanet, Sun ONE, Sun Java System, Sun Enterprise System, and Solaris Enterprise System....is it a quiz in Certificate Exam ? And...we really don't know what is the final bits of many software product, and what is the official media form...on JES CD, standalone downloadable ? And there are many many link on sun.com showing me per CPU price and 90 days evaluation only. These information conflict what Sun said about free use of Sun products. Hope you guys do business "legally".

I don't see Sun will be much better than before..

Hi pony tail man, remember your fancy idea of per/employee pricing...the Java Enterprise System...is it still ALIVE

How predicatble. Here we go - sage advice from the real experts on running a multi-billion dollar, 40k employee, world-wide company. I'm sure CEOs everywhere are asking "why didn't I think of that".

Jokes aside, you ask some good questions so thanks for the opportunity to answer them.

Yes the Java ES pricing is very much alive - quite a while back we hit 1 million licenses - with some pretty big wins like GE, GM and T-Mobile.

We all know JES is a collection of individual products bought from many other ISV.

And exactly how is that any different from IBM, BEA, Oracle, Microsoft, RedHat, etc. ?

You're right about one thing - there is real value in the quality of integration of the parts - I don't think Java ES is perfect but we're making pretty major improvements with every release.

My experience tell me only Solaris, Directory Server, Web Server, and Messaging Server are "good" products. Ironically, they happen to be written in native language (majorly in C/C++, not in Java)

Thanks for the plug.

I'm pretty good at detecting irony; but I don't see any here. Not everything Sun does uses Java and nor should it (though we are pretty good at eating our own dogfood).

Finally, Jonathan, please not to rebranding your products too often. Netscape, iPlanet, Sun ONE, Sun Java System, Sun Enterprise System, and Solaris Enterprise System....is it a quiz in Certificate Exam ?

+1

And there are many many link on sun.com showing me per CPU price and 90 days evaluation only. These information conflict what Sun said about free use of Sun products. Hope you guys do business "legally".I don't see Sun will be much better than before..

You're right - I checked - there are some old pages (2004Q4, 2005Q1) with the old terms and conditions - I think legally they might have to stay that way due to the already widely distributed license but I'll check.

Thanks for the dilligence.

Rich Sharples
Sun Microsystems
http://blogs.sun.com/theaquarium

To my understanding, RedHat makes most of its money selling technical manuals and offering support packages. Many embedded platforms (handheld devices) offer support licenses for 30k a pop.

Sun should consider doing something similar. I know they already offer commercial support for Java at 30k at year but I would never consider paying them because:

From what I recall, the 30k package limits you to 4-5 support ticket per year. For that price, I might as well hire a local programmer to find workarounds for those bugs and more.

As a company, I'd want to pay Sun for one of two things:

1) Fix bugs that interest me before other people's bugs.

2) In rare cases, I need technical support when I can't figure out how to do something in Java and no one else seems to know either.

Thing is, I don't think Sun should cap people at 4-5 tickets per 30k. It should be unlimited and handled on a time-permitting basis. Also, these patches have little or no significance if the customer has to wait two years before it'll be included in an official Java release.

Maybe this is a bad idea (you tell me) but I suspect they should price this like a ISP prices bandwidth. They know that on average a customer will use X bandwidth but some people will use far less and some people will use far more and you charge everyone some sort of price that would make you a decent profit at the end of the month. When I get a support contract, I usually fire off a bunch of tickets at the beginning then go idle for the solid couple of months while I work on my own code. They should be able to bank on that and make some money. <shrug>

Does this have any correlation to the JavaOne announcement that Sun will open source Java. Since Sun is also laying off 5000 people it seems like they'd lose much of their Java support staff so maybe open sourcing Java is a cost reduction technique? I don't know how many people work for Sun but 5000 seems like a lot. George Coller DevilElephant