News: Open Source and Java (teleconference with Sun and EE partners)
Yes, it's JavaOne time again, and outlets like Yahoo and Slashdot (among countless others) are raising the issue of open source Java again. In a teleconference for the press on May 4, 2006, a question was asked that sheds some light on what's likely to actually happen.
- Posted by: Joseph Ottinger
- Posted on: May 05 2006 06:29 EDT
The question asked was in reference to a rumour floating around that Java itself would be open-sourced. With the release of Java EE being announced and the hints of more big news at JavaOne, the rumour seemed worth asking about, just to clarify at the very least.
The answer was, predictably, "no." However, the respondent (Laurie Tolson, Sun Microsystems) did mention that Sun is working with "various distributions" of Linux to allow redistribution of the JVM. It's not the same as "open source," but it is a beneficial change.
The teleconference itself was about the release of Java EE 5 at JavaOne after its approval in the JCP, which TSS mentioned the day it occurred. Attending were representatives from Java EE partners SAP, JBoss, Oracle, and BEA. Most of the conversation and focus was on EJB3 and the simplified development model, with some mention of JSF 1.2. Ms. Padir mentioned that the sample applications were done with "60% fewer classes" than the J2EE 1.4 versions of the sample applications, and that the code ran much faster as well - with the benefits being "70-30" from running in the J2SE 5 VM and the new APIs being more efficient.
The Java EE SDK will be given away en masse at JavaOne, which is nice (provided you've not already downloaded it from the Glassfish home page already). However, the other vendors already have implementations for their application servers available in various statuses (usually, 'beta versions' that are fully functional.)
Of particular interest was the assertion by JBoss that Java EE will be fully supported in version 5 of their platform, due in the second half of 2006.
The next revision of the Java EE platform was also mentioned at the teleconference, and participants in the TSS thread on the approval of Java EE will be pleased: the announced focus was on portals and the portlet specification. Only three years to go, folks! (Hopefully, I'm just kidding, and it'll only be two years.)
- JEE 6 by Victor C. on May 05 2006 08:20 EDT
- JEE 6 by Neil Bartlett on May 05 2006 08:24 EDT
- JEE 6 by Joseph Ottinger on May 05 2006 08:55 EDT
- JEE 6 by Mike Brown on May 05 2006 10:12 EDT
- C# is not a replacement, it compliments Java by peter lin on May 05 2006 10:26 EDT
- check harmony...... by Joe Fawzy on May 05 2006 17:30 EDT
- Sun has done a good job by Steve Punte on May 09 2006 14:03 EDT
Whom ever buys Sun will decide what to do w/ JEE 6.
Portlets? Persitance API? Even more SQL centric (now that Solaris has a SQL DB) Ajax? A thin down Jave SE bloat movement so it downloads nothing and gets needed packages on demand?
How many will go to C#?
How many will stay w/ ... Groovy!
ok, is that enough bait?
Whom ever buys Sun will decide what to do w/ JEE 6.
What if it's Microsoft?
Whom ever buys Sun will decide what to do w/ JEE 6.Portlets? Persitance API? Even more SQL centric (now that Solaris has a SQL DB) Ajax? A thin down Jave SE bloat movement so it downloads nothing and gets needed packages on demand?How many will go to C#?How many will stay w/ ... Groovy!ok, is that enough bait?.VWell, Vic, it's good that we can count on you and a few others for the broken-record replies. Come on, man. Even from your perspective, they're offering you things you've asked for (even here on TSS.) They're just not moving as fast as you'd like, I guess. Perhaps we'll still live, and perhaps a potential for satisfaction in the future is better than nothing at all.
... buy Sun ... there is a reason that 51% of Sun's shares are owned by institutions. I believe that deal was set up before they went public. IBM has offered to buy Sun many times, or at least that is rumor.
Whom ever buys Sun will decide what to do w/ JEE 6.Portlets? Persitance API? Even more SQL centric (now that Solaris has a SQL DB) Ajax? A thin down Jave SE bloat movement so it downloads nothing and gets needed packages on demand?How many will go to C#?How many will stay w/ ... Groovy!
ok, is that enough bait?.
I like C# and use it every now and then. For what I do, .NET is not a replacement of Java or J2EE stack. I find C# compliments Java just fine and hope the two co-exist nicely with each other.
I've been working with C# for some time. I like it. It feels like a toy at times though. I did find the IKVM project rather cool though in that I could convert my java libraries so they could be used within .NET. Check it out.
Harmony is a nice idea. I worked some time with helping the GCJ people along in their quest some time back. But I still wish, and hope, that Sun considers releasing Java under the LGPL.
I know some people have worries that this would cause a whole bunch of forks of the Java language. But in truth, Java is already "forked" into dozens of partially complete, and sometimes incompatible, reimplementations (see GCJ, Harmony, Classpath, and Kaffe to name just a few). Also, it is very rare for open source projects to fork. For example, who knows of a popular (note popular) fork of the Apache web server? Why would someone fork the main project that has the majority of developers? If Sun released Java under the LGPL, they can still control its progress. And Microsoft? They wouldn't touch a LGPL'ed anything with a ten foot pole.
Now, what should Sun do without owning Java? Lots! First, probably stop doing hardware since Sun sure as heck aint Dell and competeing against cheap hardware is just a waste of time, effort, and money. What Sun should focus on is (1) leading the Java future under the LGPL and (2) focus on software solutions. Sun has some really sharp and innovative programmers. Look at NetBeans and OpenOffice. They can completely move under a commercial support and build software solutions and get lots of $$$ in return. And how about a kick butt Linux distro? They already have a great start with their current distro, they have tons of Solaris tools they can port, and they can even make money moving people off those old Solaris servers to the x86 machines!
I don't think the Sun has set. They have plenty of opportunities to turn things around. Here's hoping they make the right moves!
please b general and use the (opensource license) instead of lgpl to avoid the flamewar of others fan
long live apache
apache harmony now is capable of running eclipse and tomcat ang soon geronimo on its own vm and classlib so instead of begging sun to do it..... HELP HARMONY
Sun has done a good job at taking Java from nothing to the world’s premier programming language (well, perhaps I’m biased a bit). Nevertheless, I really shriek at the idea of Java becoming open-source. As it is, I spend an enormous amount of time wading through poor documentation and fishing out bugs and defects in open-source platforms. And don’t get me started on some of the features in open-source languages: i.e. the "unless" keyword in Perl! What were they thinking?
I would support Java breaking off from Sun and becoming a non-profit organization like Eclipse.
Sometimes it is good to have a more single concise vision guiding a project, and Java is definitely an example of this. Leave well enough alone.