Article: The Mac as a Java Development and Execution Platform

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News: Article: The Mac as a Java Development and Execution Platform

  1. Nobody can deny that Apple manufactures very handsome machines, but there are endless debates about whether they perform better than equivalent machines running Linux or Windows. In this article, Eugene Ciurana shows through a series of tests that, considering equivalent metrics and similar system configurations, different systems can perform better than others due to a variety of factors. Read The Mac as a Java Development and Execution Platform.

    Threaded Messages (57)

  2. who cares[ Go to top ]

    really
  3. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    Th is me s     s             a  ge          w a                  s       writ t    e      n           on         a   Ma    c                  :         )
  4. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    Th is me s s a ge w a s writ t e n on a Ma c : )
    Actually looks like it was written on Linux, or Windows. Mac beats any other system in graphics and fonts. But we're talking about a development platform... If you are a *NIX developer and are tired of the crappy windows development environment, screwing with registry, etc... Mac is where you should be. I went from Windows, to Linux, to Mac. Going to Linux was really bad. I blame it not on Linux as a kernel, but rather on the poor KDE and Gnome environments. Most don't have good standards, etc... Things like global shortcuts, etc... are implemented differently in some apps. On Mac, pretty everything is an easy config. I'm in love and dread every time I have to pick up my dusty windows machine when I have to use a VPN client that is not available on Mac. Software wise, I don't know anything that I use that Mac doesn't have. Ilya
  5. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    Actually looks like it was written on Linux, or Windows. Mac beats any other system in graphics and fonts. But we're talking about a development platform...
    Actually, Mac is in third place now as far as fonts go. Macs version of subpixel rendering is pretty crappy, unless you think massive blurring is the way to go. A recent freetype patch gets those systems that use freetype close to Windows. Windows is still king when it comes to fonts though. As far as graphics are concerned, Mac systems tend to very weak when it comes to supplied GPUs so I don't where it can beat Linux or Windows.
  6. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    Actually looks like it was written on Linux, or Windows. Mac beats any other system in graphics and fonts. But we're talking about a development platform...


    Actually, Mac is in third place now as far as fonts go. Macs version of subpixel rendering is pretty crappy, unless you think massive blurring is the way to go. A recent freetype patch gets those systems that use freetype close to Windows. Windows is still king when it comes to fonts though.

    As far as graphics are concerned, Mac systems tend to very weak when it comes to supplied GPUs so I don't where it can beat Linux or Windows.
    Well, I can't tell the difference, other than everything looks a lot cleaner than windows. Honestly, I wasn't big on Mac until about 4 months ago. I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware and OS wise, at least from a developer usability standpoint. Ilya
  7. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware
    You mean before or after Macs switched to PC hardware? :-) -- Cedric TestNG 5.0 is out!
  8. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware

    You mean before or after Macs switched to PC hardware? :-)

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!
    Well, if we take the benchmarks seriously it looks like the best combination is running Java on a MacBook under Windows XP. That way you get the superior design and quality, an operating system that's been optimized for running on Intel for over 20 years, and a JVM that runs on one of Sun's reference platforms. Something for everyone! Cheers, E
  9. I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware

    You mean before or after Macs switched to PC hardware? :-)

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!


    Well, if we take the benchmarks seriously it looks like the best combination is running Java on a MacBook under Windows XP. That way you get the superior design and quality, an operating system that's been optimized for running on Intel for over 20 years, and a JVM that runs on one of Sun's reference platforms. Something for everyone!

    Cheers,

    E
    I adore the style and look of Apple-designed hardware, but I am not going to pay premium for a regular PC with Apple name on it. I'd rather get AOpen Pandora, not *as* beatiful, but pretty neat nevertheless. Considering Apple's software, I've had enough with iPod shuffle. Seems that Apple's mantra is "This is the proper way to do it and 90% of our customers fine with it. Those who are not are free to go." Eugene, what is about having source code as a picture? And why it is in JPG instead of GIF? Have you got used to Mac's blurry UI so much, or Mac cannot save window capture in GIF? ;-)
  10. Eugene, what is about having source code as a picture? And why it is in JPG instead of GIF? Have you got used to Mac's blurry UI so much, or Mac cannot save window capture in GIF? ;-)
    Hej. Interesting comment - thanks. I'm lucky enough to have access to several machines from Dell, Toshiba, and Apple. I stand by my comment of "superior hardware". The quality of the materials, the options included (i.e. iSight, motion sensors), etc. are top-notch. My non-Apple hardware is fine but doesn't feel as nice but lacks the professional finish of the Apple. The other machines do the job, but don't make you feel indulgent when you use them. About the rest... at first I didn't understand what you were talking about... now I get it. I didn't format the article for publication. That was The Server Side's editors' job. The source code was delivered as text and the charts in PDF. I'll be happy to send you the original files, with non-blurry charts, if you give me an email address to deliver it. Drop me a note via http://teslatestament.com/site.php?page=contact - select my name from the drop-down list. Cheers, E
  11. I adore the style and look of Apple-designed hardware, but I am not going to pay premium for a regular PC with Apple name on it. I'd rather get AOpen Pandora, not *as* beatiful, but pretty neat nevertheless. Considering Apple's software, I've had enough with iPod shuffle. Seems that Apple's mantra is "This is the proper way to do it and 90% of our customers fine with it. Those who are not are free to go."

    Eugene, what is about having source code as a picture? And why it is in JPG instead of GIF? Have you got used to Mac's blurry UI so much, or Mac cannot save window capture in GIF? ;-)
    Well, some people also won't buy a better car because they claim this one gets them everywhere they need to go. I guess that's your opinion. As far as Apple telling you how to do things, that's a bunch of BS. Don't compare your iPod shuffle OS to a desktop OS. OS X is much more configurable than Windows ever was and it's standardization of various things and control over various installs, etc... is actually a good thing. Running Windows, I had to reimage my drive every six months or so due to performance reasons as well as a bunch of crap in the registry and file systems that was always put there by careless software installs. I think one huge benefit of apple software is quality. I'm yet to find software for a Mac that I curse at. Ilya
  12. As a designer and former Mac user, i never understood the bigg fuzz about Mac. It is ok i guess it is basically very similar to Windows. I don't know about you guys, but i use user-applications (PhotoShop, Eclipse, Netbeans and such), not fiddle around with the OS attributes all day. Can I run my needed applications on Windows? Yes. Can i run my applications on Mac? Yes, most of them. But to be honest it is more applications and better hardware support for windows. This is for me a pluss. Linux is ok, but i am not in love with it either. The user interface is not at the same level as Mac OS and Windiows, but as servers it is more interesting i think. Although the idea that so many fiddle with the source code for that product i am not 100% enthusiastic about that either. So BSD comes to my mind.. Well is not OS X based on BSD again? Hmm, i like that idea. ..but then. It comes back to the soft-/hardware support. But i really like the design of MacBook Pro. And being a design victim I am willing to pay more for good looking and functional design. Basically i think i can sum it up with; Run and buy a good looking MacBook Pro. And hell, why not make it run even faster and support more stuff. Install Windows on it too :D Happy coding guys.
  13. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware

    You mean before or after Macs switched to PC hardware? :-)

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!


    Well, if we take the benchmarks seriously it looks like the best combination is running Java on a MacBook under Windows XP. That way you get the superior design and quality, an operating system that's been optimized for running on Intel for over 20 years, and a JVM that runs on one of Sun's reference platforms. Something for everyone!

    Cheers,

    E
    The sad point is that after 20 years of enhancements, Mac is still a far superior platform even on the Intel platform. Either way, I'll stop trolling now, just my opinion. But I'm seeing more and more java and other developers moving to Mac these days. Ask the Sun guys, not sure why Mac is not a platform they distribute for (I heard it was licensing issues, etc...), but quite a few Sun developers, specifically glassfish, use Macs.
  14. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    I finally switched and now you'd have to beat me with a yard stick to touch a windows machine. I don't dislike Microsoft, etc..., just think Macs are far superior hardware

    You mean before or after Macs switched to PC hardware? :-)

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!
    Actually, both:-) Yes, Intel sure gave it more speed, but even using my friend's Powerbook, is definitely a better experience than my windows laptop.
  15. Re: who cares[ Go to top ]

    One of things that really annoys me is that inorder to have Java 5 on your Mac OS you need Mac OS 10.4 and above. I have Mac OS 10.3 and inorder to upgrade i need to buy 10.4. Come on! Do u need to upgrade Windows to run Java 5?! It really annoys me. I have written to Apple about this but as per usual no response.
  16. Missing files[ Go to top ]

    primitivetest and boxedobjectstest packages are missing the java class files.
  17. Re: Missing files[ Go to top ]

    Howdy Chris, The files aren't missing. The ~/run script will compile the code and run the tests. The idea was that you probably shouldn't run code from a dodgy source (i.e. me) so that you get to inspect what it does before you execute it. Cheers, Eugene
  18. Re: Missing files[ Go to top ]

    Hi Chris, Sorry about the mishap - it looks like two files were really missing from the package posted with the article. You can download the .zip file from here: http://eugeneciurana.com/musings/Java-Performance-test.zip MD5 sum: 890a84b10943b01b7a9a4de34939baf1 I just sent the updated file to the editors at TSS. Cheers, E
  19. different systems can perform better than others due to a variety of factors
    Holy crap! Ground breaking statement. I had to switch from a Mac to Windows because Sun stopped supporting a bytecode compiler for the Mac. Yeah, a long time ago. The Mac is now a great development environment for Java. Probably more for the iTunes integration with my headphones. Even when Apple reintroduced a modern bytecode compiler they were way behind the current Sun offering. Times have changed but Sun still publishes to Solaris and Windows, then Linux first. Development tool distributions definitely lag on the Mac. XCode anyone? As a headless server, $$$ makes Apple a no go.
  20. different systems can perform better than others due to a variety of factors


    Holy crap! Ground breaking statement.

    I had to switch from a Mac to Windows because Sun stopped supporting a bytecode compiler for the Mac. Yeah, a long time ago.

    The Mac is now a great development environment for Java. Probably more for the iTunes integration with my headphones. Even when Apple reintroduced a modern bytecode compiler they were way behind the current Sun offering. Times have changed but Sun still publishes to Solaris and Windows, then Linux first.

    Development tool distributions definitely lag on the Mac. XCode anyone?

    As a headless server, $$$ makes Apple a no go.
    What Java development tools are not available on Mac? I use IntelliJ with extensive plugins, Eclipse (MyEclipse), and Netbeans. All run great, of course IDEA wins, IMO. Most app servers can be installed on Mac, I run Tomcat and Jetty, but installed Weblogic as well before. It's just Unix, and unless you're using some software specifically compiled to binary for a particular platform, all else is mostly a go, just get a Unix distro, if OS X is not available. I'm amazed actually about how many people are using Macs these days. I travel quite a bit and have seen more Power Books/MacBooks at the airports than PCs. $$$ ??? That's not an object for a superior hardware and software combination. A $2500 macbook, will beat any PC quality wise and will last you a lot longer. Also, we're developers, I'm sure no one here is discounting a machine because it's $500 more than an IBM laptop. At least I hope we're not. Ilya
  21. A $2500 macbook, will beat any PC quality wise and will last you a lot longer.
    That just means you haven't used a good PC. I tend to wear the letters off of my notebook keyboards (and occasionally I have to replace the keyboards). BTW - Dell and Apple use the same notebook manufacturer. ;-) I like Apples as much as the next technophiliac, but they are heavy and their battery life is poor. My 3 year old Fujitsu still gets around 10 hours battery life and weighs a couple pounds less than the lightest Mac notebook. Peace, Cameron Purdy Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  22. My 3 year old Fujitsu still gets around 10 hours battery life
    In standby mode ;-)
  23. Hi Cameron!
    I like Apples as much as the next technophiliac, but they are heavy and their battery life is poor.
    I beg to disagree. I get 5.25 hours of battery life on my PowerBook and about 5 on the MacBook, on a full battery charge. That's pretty good for any portable. This can be verified by our mutual acquaintances at the conferences where you and I ran into each other. At least one of them has seen me working on either of those machines for that long, non-stop. Things I do that help battery life: * Dim the display to a comfortable level, but not full blast * Turn off unused services (i.e. remove disks from the Superdrive, turn Bluetooth off) * Set the system preferences to "better battery life" Small things, but they have a huge impact. Another thing I do, and some folks at Apple indicated it's a Good Thing(tm), is to remove the battery if I leave the machine plugged for a long period of time. That has two side-effects: * Extends the life of the battery by not forcing small recharges continuosly (yes, I heard it doesn't happen on the new batteries, but my experience says otherwise and the Apple dudes agreed) * For some reason, neither the PowerBook nor the MacBook get as hot when the battery isn't in its bay. I'm guessing that the big gap helps air circulation. I checked this one with a thermometer. Cheers, E
  24. I like Apples as much as the next technophiliac, but they are heavy and their battery life is poor.
    I beg to disagree. I get 5.25 hours of battery life on my PowerBook and about 5 on the MacBook, on a full battery charge. That's pretty good for any portable.
    ** on the hardware ** A few years ago it seemed that most notebooks were 10 pounds and only got 1-2 hours of battery life, but that's not the goal to beat anymore, so I'd like to see Apple do better ;-) At 5.6 pounds and 5 hours battery life, the smallest MacBook Pro is over two and a half times heavier than a Panasonic R2 and has less than half the battery life, and if you want a larger screen, dual core, optical drive, etc. you can always go for the Panasonic Y2 that weighs a little over half that of the MacBook Pro and has almost twice the battery life. You gotta admit, that's pretty sweet. (OK, I admit I am not a typical user -- I want 8-12 hours battery life from a silent and unbreakable 3-pound notebook with the ability to open my notebook in a plane and use it nonstop from here to Timbuktu without having the guy in front of me crush the screen when he leans his seat back.) ** on the software ** This is the area where Mac could have a significant edge for a good number of developers: MaxOSX is about as UNIXy as FreeBSD is. If you want to run something UNIX-like on a notebook, you can spend large amounts of time fiddling with Linux on a PC notebook, or you can buy a Mac. No contest here: Mac wins with the UNIX crowd for all but the most esoteric cases. Of course, under both MacOSX and Linux you can run Windows XP if you need to. Peace, Cameron Purdy Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  25. The Y2 is nice, but not the same kind of beast as the 15" Macbook Pro. The MBPro's 15" widescreen is luxurious compared to a regular 14.1", after using a variety of tiny high resolution screens and compressed keyboards, I'm not sure I could go back. Also, 2ghz is meaningfully faster than 1.5ghz (though the price is battery life). And, the Y2 is twice the price (eg, two notebooks) with a 100GB hard disk. Finally, the Y2 probably doesn't take anything near 2 GB memory. Owch. It would have been nice if the MBP optical drive on a macbook could be swapped out for another battery. I wouldn't miss it. One significant thing that is left out is the real committment to open source that a Linux-based notebook has, that means you can count on source and access to everything, for everyone.. Linux on a notebook is very close to being great, I'm planning to return to the fold in a year when it should be perfect.
  26. A $2500 macbook, will beat any PC quality wise and will last you a lot longer.


    That just means you haven't used a good PC. I tend to wear the letters off of my notebook keyboards (and occasionally I have to replace the keyboards). BTW - Dell and Apple use the same notebook manufacturer. ;-)

    I like Apples as much as the next technophiliac, but they are heavy and their battery life is poor. My 3 year old Fujitsu still gets around 10 hours battery life and weighs a couple pounds less than the lightest Mac notebook.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
    Yeah, battery on my macbook is only about 4 hours, though I don't run any power saving features. Also it beats any other PC notebook I had, Dell and Toshiba. Ilya
  27. Development tool distributions definitely lag on the Mac. XCode anyone?
    Wouldn't it be a great idea if Apple would base their XCode platform on Eclipse? This would be in line with the earlier action of basing their OS on an open kernel and providing 'just' the value-added Mac stuff instead of the whole thing. Basing XCode on Eclipse would also be a great incentive for Apple to contribute to the SWT library, which usually lacks behind the GTK and Win32 implementations (this has even been mentioned explicitly on the SWT home page). Furthermore it would strengten Apple's possition in the Java world which is what Steve Jobs aimed for, didn't he? So it would seem this wouldn't be just a win-win situation but actually a win-win-win one ;)
  28. SWT can be quite problematic, especially on the Mac platform. IMO SWT should either be rolled into the JDK or perceived benefits of SWT rolled into AWT. We don't know what Apple will decide do with Xcode and its' java development environment capabilities, but they wouldn't choose a platform with known issues unless they decide to invest money to fix them. version issues etc.
  29. SWT can be quite problematic, especially on the Mac platform.
    Nevertheless, switching to an Eclipse base would relieve Apple from the need of fiddling with the low level details of an IDE. Building IDEs has never been Apple's core business. It has become a necessary evil for them though, since the strength and success of a platform (Cocoa in this case) largely depends on the quality of the tools available for it. So it would seem to make a lot of sense for Apple to -only- implement the Cocoa (and other Mac techniques) tooling and don't bother to reinvent the wheel for such things as (Java) refactoring support, the entire plug-in system and everything else that people have come to expect as standard available in modern IDEs. For Apple, the "price" to pay for using the Eclipse base (apart from the initial transition costs) would be to fix the outstanding issues in the SWT-Carbon implementation. It's not like SWT-Carbon is completely broken though. There are issues, but the majority of the functionality is simply there. If you look at the other technologies that Apple is basing their products on (Mach kernel, BSD and KHTML among others) you'll see that these also aren't included in OS X in their vanilla form. Apple extends and modifies them. Fixing the issues in SWT-carbon would seem like a small thing compared to that other work. With the win-win-win situation I meant that Apple is relieved from the core IDE work, the SWT team is relieved from working with the delicate Mac internals, and us Mac users will have a far better experience developping for or on the Mac (which eventually would make Apple happy again since more people would use a Mac). In the end everyone would just be more concentrated on doing what they know best.
  30. It's an interesting subject, but I'm afraid the article misses the point. When I look for a Java platform today, I don't really care about the performance because the various processors that run Windows, Mac or Linux all run Java at speeds that are more than enough for a majority of cases. What really matters to me: - Is the platform running a recent JDK? Until not long ago, Mac used to be very behind and took more than a year to come up with a JDK5. - Is the platform running all my tools (mainly, IDE's) well? Again, until recently, I was hearing my friends complain that Eclipse and IDEA were running very poorly. Not so any more - How about support tools? Mac and Linux have real shells (a pleasure to use), Windows is a bit behind there, but the DOS console has become good enough with XP that I didn't mind it too much Overall, the Mac has finally become a credible Java platform, but it took its sweet time (and I can't help but laugh when I remember Steve Jobs saying he wanted Mac OS to become the best Java platform five years ago...). For more of my initial impressions of Mac OS, see here and here. -- Cedric TestNG 5.0 is out!
  31. here and here.

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!
    You seem very reluctant indeed! As a recent 'switcher' I can hardly imagine anyone actually preferring Windows over mac. I find mac's user interface much nicer to use in general, and things like having to key fn+delete for delete, ctrl+click for context actions haven't bothered me for one second, while e.g. the broad mouse pad with the two-finger scrolling action is a serious time saver. All Java tools I use work fine, though I understand that's something recent, and having a decent shell is great. I had to read again that you think DOS is sufficient now :)
  32. You seem very reluctant indeed! As a recent 'switcher' I can hardly imagine anyone actually preferring Windows over mac.
    I never said I preferred one over the other, I am just giving my impressions as I go. As it stands now, I see both platforms as having pros and cons, and I'm not going to say "I'll never go back to Windows" because Windows is still superior to Mac in certain areas. I can say with certainty that I will never go back to Linux, though :-)
    while e.g. the broad mouse pad with the two-finger scrolling action is a serious time saver.
    True, I got used to that very quickly. Dell laptops have something similar but with only one finger and on the edge of the trackpad. Not as good as two-finger scrolling, though.
    All Java tools I use work fine, though I understand that's something recent, and having a decent shell is great. I had to read again that you think DOS is sufficient now :)
    Not exactly :-) I said the Command Prompt was sufficient. It has tab completion enabled by default on XP and for anything that requires a bit more than trivial scripting, I use Ruby. -- Cedric TestNG 5.0 is out!
  33. I never said I preferred one over the other, I am just giving my impressions as I go. As it stands now, I see both platforms as having pros and cons, and I'm not going to say "I'll never go back to Windows" because Windows is still superior to Mac in certain areas.
    And which area is that? Honestly, I've been a long time Windows user and used to grin at folks trying to get me to switch to Mac (though I was always a Unix/Java developer).
    I can say with certainty that I will never go back to Linux, though :-)
    I agree with that assertion:-) I truly tried. I still think Linux is a superior server platform and I'd work on it any day in terminal mode, but GUI, wow, talk about slow and inconsistent. Ilya
  34. Windows is a bit behind there, but the DOS console has become good enough with XP that I didn't mind it too much
    I must be missing something... I thought it was almost identical to the DOS console in Windows 3.1.
  35. I must be missing something... I thought it was almost identical to the DOS console in Windows 3.1.
    Well I don't recall being able to do copy/paste in a DOS console prompt with 3.1 or autocomplete BTW ... Ok, there were goodies that would help do that, but it wasn't "offered" by MicroSoft. a++ C├ędric
  36. +1 for Cedric The SWT/JFace port could be better..... Christoph
  37. Mac and Linux have real shells (a pleasure to use), Windows is a bit behind there, but the DOS console has become good enough with XP that I didn't mind it too much
    Windows has no DOS console.
  38. I recently convinced my company to give me a MacBook (black, natch) as a replacement for my Thinkpad -- it's gotten to the point where a good case can be made for it on a dollars basis. I was very tired of using Cygwin as a poor replacement for a real terminal window, tired of Windows' still-mediocre networking support, and so on. Since then I've been running Eclipse/MyEclipse, JBoss, MySQL, etc and doing development with no problems at all; quite the opposite. The system runs beautifully, never crashes, and the performance seems subjectively to be very good. I use Parallels when I can't avoid using Windows (mainly for testing IE support), which is a pretty amazing app. I definitely recommend the Mac as an escape from Windows (assuming you can't move to Linux, of course).
  39. SUSE desktop[ Go to top ]

    Another option is to get SUSE desktop on your workstation. I agree that Cygwin is good, but not the best solution. With OpenOffice I don't have any problems dealing with the rest of the company and my Sys Admin loves the fact that he doesn't have yet another virus incubator on his LAN.
  40. Re: SUSE desktop[ Go to top ]

    Another option is to get SUSE desktop on your workstation. I agree that Cygwin is good, but not the best solution.

    With OpenOffice I don't have any problems dealing with the rest of the company and my Sys Admin loves the fact that he doesn't have yet another virus incubator on his LAN.
    Linux definitely beats windows as a development machine, but Mac beats it hands down usability wise. I think with Mac you have the best of both worlds, Unix environment and a great user interface. Ilya
  41. Problems I've had[ Go to top ]

    I agree, but see my above post. I don't have time to tweak my projects for OSX.
  42. Re: SUSE desktop[ Go to top ]

    Linux definitely beats windows as a development machine
    Certainly not in my book. I've been using RedHat and Ubuntu these past years, and they all have so many problems that it's hard to get any work done. In a nutshell: - Print never worked - At some point, the preference pane of my mouse would die systematically with a CORBA error - Window management is pretty bad (inconsistent z stacking order) - Terminal windows scroll awfully slow - Fonts are awful (I posted a fix for that not long ago, much better since then) - Development tools are usually more instable than on other platforms (Eclipse most notably) - Can't even get some simple UI things like flashing notifications in the toolbar because... well, there is no unified UI on Linux so you can't even bet on the presence of a dock Shall I go on? -- Cedric TestNG 5.0 is out!
  43. Re: SUSE desktop[ Go to top ]

    Linux definitely beats windows as a development machine

    Certainly not in my book.

    I've been using RedHat and Ubuntu these past years, and they all have so many problems that it's hard to get any work done. In a nutshell:

    - Print never worked
    - At some point, the preference pane of my mouse would die systematically with a CORBA error
    - Window management is pretty bad (inconsistent z stacking order)
    - Terminal windows scroll awfully slow
    - Fonts are awful (I posted a fix for that not long ago, much better since then)
    - Development tools are usually more instable than on other platforms (Eclipse most notably)
    - Can't even get some simple UI things like flashing notifications in the toolbar because... well, there is no unified UI on Linux so you can't even bet on the presence of a dock

    Shall I go on?

    --
    Cedric
    TestNG 5.0 is out!
    Well, yes, I should of added "for Unix developers:-)". Most orgs I've worked for deploy apps on Linux/Unix and I was always forced to a windows machine for local development. I just think the lack of unix based tools and consistencies between the two caused a lot of problems. Yes, it's Java, but there are still OS dependencies, maybe not in the application code, but in the toolset at least. I find a Mac, the best of both worlds. Great, consistent UI, with all the Unix tools I need. Ilya
  44. Re: SUSE desktop[ Go to top ]

    Ah, I should of added that I once tried switching from Windows to Linux and ran back about 3 days later crying. That wasn't the case when I switched to a Mac. Ilya
  45. Other tests, other systems[ Go to top ]

    Other people offered their boxes when I set out to test these systems performance. The results of those tests didn't make it to the article because we were unable to complete them, or were subject to some limitation. The most interesting result there was from running Solaris on a 650 MHz system. It wasn't the fastest, but it was the system that had the most predictable performance. In case you're interested, you can read about those tests on my blog or on my other blog. Cheers! E
  46. I bought my first Mac a year ago as a replacement for my old laptop. I must admit the PowerBook blew me away. Yes it is expensive but for a combined UNIX based development and generally PC work it is great. I was so impressed when I decided to upgrade my home desktop I got a G5. Man it is a great machine and developing on it is wondeful. At the end of the day I want to develop on a UNIX based machine but I don't want to have to switch to Windows to do any other task. It is expensive by any stretch and if I had paid for it directly and not through my S-CORP I may not have got it.
  47. Performance on MacMini[ Go to top ]

    Thanks for an interesting article. As a Java developer, I'm often hit by start-up times of application servers. I got a 1.6GHz dual core MacMini (1 GB) and a MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz (2 GB) a while back. It launched a fresh JBoss 4 on both machines using Mac OS (I guess I was on 10.4.6), Windows on bootcamp, Windows in Parallels (RC1). Results: The MacMini completely outperformed the Mac Book Pro. On Mac OS, JRE 1.4 outperformed JRE 5. Comparing Mac OS+JRE 1.4 with Windows XP+JRE 5 (Sun) on the MacMini, there is no significant different( including Parallels). JBoss reports a start-up-time of about 10.5 seconds. Which is the same speed as my QUAD G5, by the way. On MacBook Pro, Windows (native and Parallels) boots JBoss on about 17 2.5 seconds, while MacOS needs 17.0 seconds to launch JBoss. I'd like to run the tests of this article on the MacMini. Unfortunatrely, the Java class files seems to be missing in the zip archive? /Johan
  48. Sorry for the typos...[ Go to top ]

    Updated comment: Thanks for an interesting article. As a Java developer, I'm often hit by start-up times of application servers. I got a 1.6GHz dual core MacMini (1 GB) and a MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz (2 GB) a while back. I launched a fresh JBoss 4 on both machines using Mac OS (I guess I was on 10.4.6), Windows on bootcamp, Windows in Parallels (RC1). Results: The MacMini completely outperformed the Mac Book Pro. On Mac OS, JRE 1.4 outperformed JRE 5. Comparing Mac OS+JRE 1.4 with Windows XP+JRE 5 (Sun) on the MacMini, there is no significant different( including Parallels). JBoss reports a start-up-time of about 10.5 seconds. Which is the same speed as my QUAD G5, by the way. On MacBook Pro, Windows (native and Parallels) boots JBoss on about 12.5 seconds, while MacOS needs 17.0 seconds to launch JBoss. I'd like to run the tests of this article on the MacMini. Unfortunatrely, the Java class files seems to be missing in the zip archive? /Johan
  49. Re: Sorry for the typos...[ Go to top ]

    I'd like to run the tests of this article on the MacMini. Unfortunatrely, the Java class files seems to be missing in the zip archive?

    /Johan
    The run and runc shell scripts compile the source files before running the tests. They were delivered like this to give you a chance to look at the source before running it. After all... do you *really* trust me to write code that you'll run in your systems without a sandbox? Cheers, Eugene
  50. Concole output from ./run[ Go to top ]

    Sorry for the inaccurate problem report. Here is the console output: JohansMacBookPro:~/Desktop/BrowserDownloads/Java-Performance-suite johan$ ./run error: cannot read: primitivetest/PrimitiveSortDemo.java 1 error error: cannot read: boxedobjectstest/SortDemo.java 1 error All directories of the zip file are empty after extraction with jar -xf, as well as using Mac OS built-in zip extraction.
  51. My apologies to the TSS readers - it looks like the .zip package containing the tests is missing the Java sources. I'm sending the updated package to TSS right now; in the meantime, you can download the file from: http://eugeneciurana.com/musings/Java-Performance-test.zip The MD5 sum for the file is: 890a84b10943b01b7a9a4de34939baf1 Length Date Time Name -------- ---- ---- ---- 3953 07-07-06 08:21 Java-Performance-suite/DiskIOTest.java 837 07-13-06 23:54 Java-Performance-suite/README 630 07-07-06 08:21 Java-Performance-suite/RandomizedSample.java 1798 07-07-06 08:21 Java-Performance-suite/SieveBits.java 0 07-07-06 09:29 Java-Performance-suite/boxedobjectstest/ 0 07-07-06 09:29 Java-Performance-suite/primitivetest/ 392 07-07-06 08:22 Java-Performance-suite/randomizedsample.c 580 07-07-06 09:44 Java-Performance-suite/run 412 07-07-06 08:23 Java-Performance-suite/runc 2689 07-10-06 11:16 Java-Performance-suite/sortdemo.c 3964 07-07-06 08:25 Java-Performance-suite/boxedobjectstest/SortDemo.java 3948 07-07-06 08:24 Java-Performance-suite/primitivetest/PrimitiveSortDemo.java -------- ------- 19203 12 files
  52. MacMini and Quad test results[ Go to top ]

    Quad (4 x 2.5 GHz G5, 1.5 GB): http://www.eltes.se/~johan/tss/macjava/QuadTest.txt MacMini DualCore (2 x 1.66 GHz Intel, 1.0 GB): http://www.eltes.se/~johan/tss/macjava/MacMiniTest.txt
  53. Eclipse Java bug[ Go to top ]

    There is a long standing Mac-Java bug that affects Eclipse for graphical apps, such as MyEclipse's UML tools: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=145890 No one seems to want to take responsibility for it? Signs of a sidelined OS. But please vote for this bug. I just switched to the Mac after mostly Linux and some Windows. Less fiddling to keep things running than Linux, less constant virus battle and more transparency than Windows. And of course I can use all three OSs via boot/Parallels (and VMWare someday soon I hope). Change is good. The hardware is heavier than my old, high quality but cramped Toshiba M200, but I doubt it could get much lighter with such a big screen and decent keyboard and trackpad, which are at least as important as a good OS. :)
  54. Kind of dumb argument but fun.[ Go to top ]

    I don't really care about the hardware, it is the OS that seems to make the most difference. Mac has some really nice basic features: Global dictionary, spotlight (windows has Google desktop but spotlight is much better integrated and more useful), easy install and (more importantly) uninstall of programs, etc, widgets (nice to have that UNIX man one click away), easy backup, easy connection to printers, cameras, etc. From what I see coming in Vista it looks like MS is mostly playing catch-up. Parallels seems to offer a VMWare-like solution for when you absolutely need to test something out on another OS. Actual development on both systems seems to be about equal when it comes to cranking out the Java. I use PC all day and Mac at night. It is all the other stuff where Mac really pulls ahead as a workstation. I don't hate windows XP but I do like running on a UNIX system. I have always hated the windows registry - possibly the biggest software engineering mistake of all time. ______________ George Coller DevilElephant
  55. I don't really care about the hardware, it is the OS that seems to make the most difference.

    Mac has some really nice basic features: Global dictionary, spotlight (windows has Google desktop but spotlight is much better integrated and more useful), easy install and (more importantly) uninstall of programs, etc, widgets (nice to have that UNIX man one click away), easy backup, easy connection to printers, cameras, etc.

    From what I see coming in Vista it looks like MS is mostly playing catch-up.

    Parallels seems to offer a VMWare-like solution for when you absolutely need to test something out on another OS.

    Actual development on both systems seems to be about equal when it comes to cranking out the Java. I use PC all day and Mac at night. It is all the other stuff where Mac really pulls ahead as a workstation.

    I don't hate windows XP but I do like running on a UNIX system. I have always hated the windows registry - possibly the biggest software engineering mistake of all time.

    ______________
    George Coller
    DevilElephant
    You basically summed it up. Uninstalling programs sucks, mostly due to the security and file structure in Windows and registry. Registry of course is the biggest windows killer IMO. Ilya
  56. Problems I've had[ Go to top ]

    I gave up on Windows a while ago as a development platform. I still build killer rigs for gaming that have Windows on it, but that's about it. I was really pleased with my PowerBook G4, because it seemed to run my Java apps flawlessly. But at some point, my test suites just starting failing on new projects (most notable their URL implementation). They worked on Windows, and on Linux, but not OSX. I just didn't have time to look into this because our production environment was Linux. About that time I also noticed some bad performance problems with the newest release of my IDE. On top of that I had to use a particular JDK for one project and it just wasn't available because of how Apple implements theirs. Ultimately I had to give up, and my development platform is now Linux at work.
  57. oh you mean the MAC has an OS?[ Go to top ]

    ooh yeah cool. I like OSes. A development and execution platform. Who is running this site? Pls this is disgusting and sad. The whole reason I code in Java is I never want to care about another piece of S**t OS again. Can we rename this the randomly stupid side.com?
  58. lame article[ Go to top ]

    this article really doesn't say much except that they have no conclusions and they don't know why. If you're going to talk about the Mac as a Java dev and exec platform, then talk about how you use it. Talk about what makes development so much easier. Is it the tools? Is it OS stability? Is it shortcuts that the Mac enables through Quicksilver? Don't go creating useless microbenchmarks that in the end don't say anything. If you're deadset on creating benchmarks, then use real-world ones like web/app server performance. I recently switched from an Ubuntu setup to a MacBookPro and I love it. Much faster, looks better, and things just work.