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News: Using Non-XML data in OpenLaszlo

  1. Using Non-XML data in OpenLaszlo (18 messages)

    Geert Bevin has written "Breaking OpenLaszlo loose from XML data," an article that shows how you can consume non-XML data formats (such as JSON) in a Laszlo application. OpenLaszlo is a UI library that has many output formats, such as Flash or DHTML. In OpenLaszlo 4.0, due in Q1 2007, some of this may be outdated as Laszlo's data processing is expected to improve, but for now, this illustrates an effective mechanism for using this capable UI library with other data formats, which continue to be growing in popularity.

    Threaded Messages (18)

  2. OpenLaszlo 4.0[ Go to top ]

    OpenLaszlo 4.0 got released last week! The summary of the news item got it a bit wrong, after the 4.0 release there might be directions that investigate other means of databinding. This article is totally current for the 4.0 release.
  3. OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    What is the current status of OpenLaszlo? Is the open source strategy working for them? Do they attract enough developers? Do they get industry support?
  4. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    I can only talk from my experience, but since it has been open-sourced the quality of the software has improved dramatically. If sites like walmart.com (http://weblog.openlaszlo.org/archives/2006/10/sighting-walmartcom-chooses-openlaszlo/) select OpenLaszlo for their rich internet features, you know that they're doing something right. I do think that there's not enough tool support, there's for instance not a good visual designer for it. Personally I don't need it, but I've seen many people ask for it. With the 4.0 release they also provide a lot more than Flex, you can use the same approach to create Flash and DHTML sites. For a next release there will also be a third runtime that supports J2ME. If I read the reports of people trying to use Flex and see the bugs they encounter, I get a feeling that OpenLaszlo is 2-3 years ahead of Flex.
  5. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    With the 4.0 release they also provide a lot more than Flex, you can use the same approach to create Flash and DHTML sites. For a next release there will also be a third runtime that supports J2ME.
    Huh? The phrase above seems like it was cut from JSF marketing materials :) Seriously, so now OpenLaszlo is positioned as another "Silver Bullet"? C'mon, get serious folks!
  6. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    Hi Konstantin, it's not a silver bullet at all. They have been creating a platform for doing rich internet application development for a long time now and it makes a lot of sense to support different runtime environments. Just check out the 4.0 release and the DHTML support, it really works impressively well. Of course there are limitations to what DHTML can support and you're able to do less multi-media integration. Also, it only runs on select versions of Internet Explorer, Firefox and Safari now, so I think that the DHTML runtime is actually less ubiquitous that the Flash version. Why are you taking such a negative position?
  7. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    it's not a silver bullet at all. They have been creating a platform for doing rich internet application development
    I saw that as attempt to recreate developers friendly environment to compile into flash. Flex has nailed it down IMO.
    for a long time now and it makes a lot of sense to support different runtime environments.
    Not sure about that. But that is the promise of:ORACLE FORMS, Java Applets, Java Web Start, Java Server Faces, XWindows, XUL, Tk, GWT, what did I miss? In the end different clients have different capabilities it does not make sense even try to use same source to produce 'similar' but different things for them - to much indirection hurts.
    Why are you taking such a negative position?
    I have allergy on wannabe silver bullets: SOAP, JSF, now OpenLaszlo. -- An [Enterprise] Architect knows he has achieved the perfect solution not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is, nothing left to take away. [Saint-Exupery] --- But folks keep adding stuff....
  8. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    OpenLaszlo doesn't promise that the same app will run without any changes at all in different runtime environments simply because, as you say, they're too different. They do allow you to use the same knowledge and a big chunk of your existing code base to create Flash and DHTML application (and soon J2ME). I totally agree that automatic and transparent support for a whole wealth of runtime engines is counter productive. Again, they don't claim to be the silver bullet, you're the one that's reading it like this.
  9. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    ... they don't claim to be the silver bullet, you're the one that's reading it like this.
    Yes, I do read it like this. I of course can be wrong, but if OL and others want to reach skeptics like me they should explain why this time it is going to work ;) It is of course much easier to ignore such old farts as me and sell to new and ignorant IT newcomers.
  10. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    I of course can be wrong, but if OL and others want to reach skeptics like me they should explain why this time it is going to work ;) It is of course much easier to ignore such old farts as me and sell to new and ignorant IT newcomers.
    You know ... they just did better than that, they released OpenLaszlo 4.0 with the first stable version of the DHTML runtime. The only thing you have to do is go to http://www.openlaszlo.org/demos and for example go to the OpenLaszlo explorer (http://www.openlaszlo.org/lps4/laszlo-explorer) and try out the Flash and DHTML versions of what's available there.
  11. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    Hi Konstantin,

    it's not a silver bullet at all. They have been creating a platform for doing rich internet application development for a long time now and it makes a lot of sense to support different runtime environments. Just check out the 4.0 release and the DHTML support, it really works impressively well. Of course there are limitations to what DHTML can support and you're able to do less multi-media integration. Also, it only runs on select versions of Internet Explorer, Firefox and Safari now, so I think that the DHTML runtime is actually less ubiquitous that the Flash version.

    Why are you taking such a negative position?
    Dude, come up, this is Konstantin. Have you ever seen a post from him that didn't take a negative position? I'm not sure if that reflects that he's negative all the time, or that he only replies when he has negative feelings towards something. We still love him though:-) Ilya
  12. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    If I read the reports of people trying to use Flex and see the bugs they encounter, I get a feeling that OpenLaszlo is 2-3 years ahead of Flex.
    My first reaction to glancing at both is Lazlo still doesn't approach flex in terms of the amount of components available to developers. Is that an accurate statement? Both sites have demos that appear to 'component showcases' and Flex has much more to offer it seems. Mike
  13. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    If I look at the demos of the OpenLaszlo Components Sampler and the Flex Components Explorer I see two very different things. The OpenLaszlo demo only contains widgets, while the Flex demo contains anything that is related to a visual representation. You can't really compare these demos. There are things not present in OpenLaszlo that you can find in Flex and vice-versa, as with any platform. I can't give a full comparison, since I never did any considerable amount of development with Flex. When I read posts like this: http://gtuhl.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/flex2-opinions/ I however feel that OpenLaszlo is much more mature. I do have to admit that I'm not a big fan of the default style of the OpenLaszlo widgets, however that is personal taste. There's also an entire guide about how to easily create your own skins: http://www.openlaszlo.org/lps4/docs/component-design/ Hope this helps.
  14. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    I get a feeling that OpenLaszlo is 2-3 years ahead of Flex.
    I have no affiliation with Adobe but I would say that I have direct opposing feeling. Messaging, fallback communication channels, richness of UI widgets and quite excellent IDE make Flex development environment quite superior. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/ http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/01/flex-test-drive-server-for-java-developers-tomcat-based/ http://blogs.adobe.com/mikepotter/2006/07/php_and_flex_js.html Only thing that is missing is Profiler to track performance bottlenecks, but I am sure they will add it to the mix soon.
  15. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    I have no affiliation with Adobe but I would say that I have direct opposing feeling. Messaging, fallback communication channels, richness of UI widgets and quite excellent IDE make Flex development environment quite superior.

    http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/
    http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/01/flex-test-drive-server-for-java-developers-tomcat-based/
    http://blogs.adobe.com/mikepotter/2006/07/php_and_flex_js.html


    Only thing that is missing is Profiler to track performance bottlenecks, but I am sure they will add it to the mix soon.
    Why are you pasting a link to Flash Lite? Flex only runs on Flash 9, full version, not even Flash 7 or 8 ... just 9. OpenLaszlo btw, does run on 7 and 8 ... and DHTML ;-) Then, a link of the nr.1 Flex advocate about an easy-to-evaluate version of Flex data services, which costs an arm and a leg, and quite frankly is something I never had to use. Finally, a page that describes a, to me unknown, open-source project, AMFPHP (the project site http://www.amfphp.org doesn't work btw) to do Flash remoting in PHP, I suppose. Besides the fact that I couldn't care less and that building a RESTful back-end of services (using XML or JSON) that communicate with an OpenLaszlo/Flex front-end really is the most flexible approach, it should be possible to use that also in OpenLaszlo when it renders to the Flash run-time. If you're interested, you can always ask on the mailing list. So ... please tell me, which UI widgets are you missing in OpenLaszlo? If there really is a lack there I'm sure they want to know your opinion and they will seriously evaluate adding what is missing. However, when reading detailed user reports like this: http://gtuhl.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/flex2-opinions/ , I can't help thinking that Adobe maybe ships their apparently richer set of widgets and components too quickly and with not enough QA.
  16. Re: OpenLaszlo?[ Go to top ]

    Why are you pasting a link to Flash Lite? Flex only runs on Flash 9, full version, not even Flash 7 or 8 ... just 9.
    Because upgrading to Flash 9 or 10 or whatever is simple and painless process for everybody but Linux user that makes vast majority of users. Therefore I do not care much about Flash version. If JVM was installable and upgradable in the same fashion as FVM (Flash VM) and if Applets were truly supported by JavaWebStart then I would be first to say that Flash (Flex/OL/etc) should go to hell.
    OpenLaszlo btw, does run on 7 and 8 ... and DHTML ;-)
    See my take on that in my previous comments /silver bullet/
    Then, a link of the nr.1 Flex advocate about an easy-to-evaluate version of Flex data services, which costs an arm and a leg, and quite frankly is something I never had to use.
    Christophe did great job putting together extremely simple to install Tomcat based package to evaluate and play with Flex, that is why. I am too would not use FDS now because support for automated maintenance of master detail relationships is laughable and inconvenient to deal with - clearly does not worth the money IMO. My impression is that Flex is free for the same set of capabilities as OL. And provides some additional things for a fee. Could you name a feature that OL provides for free and Flex charges for. I know for Charting, but IMO Flex charting is clearly superior to that one in OL and it does not cost a fortune.
    So ... please tell me, which UI widgets are you missing in OpenLaszlo? If there really is a lack there I'm sure they want to know your opinion and they will seriously evaluate adding what is missing.
    Flex layouts are scalable and demos seem to look richer and nicer. Also Flex layouts are floating when Laszlo use absolute positioning and look way too small. I hate non- scalable layoutas and at least that Flex has addressed.
    However, when reading detailed user reports like this: http://gtuhl.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/flex2-opinions/..
    Interesting link thanks, although I have different experience and take on the state of affairs. It is not that bad at all.
  17. OpenLaszlo components[ Go to top ]

    This might give a better overview of what's available for OpenLaszlo in the platform: http://labs.openlaszlo.org/legals-nightly/docs/reference/
  18. I prefer OpenLaszlo. Period. (By the way, I found some posts of Adobe staffs in some sites were quite hostile when some people claim they chose OL. Make me think that MS staffs are good at this aspect at least...)
  19. I've been looking for Open Laszlo custom components that go beyond the default library. In Flex there's some amazing stuff available freely: http://www.quietlyscheming.com/blog/components/. And there's plenty other blogs on just that: expanding the component space. In Open Laszlo I've come up completely empty. Nothing. Well, there's a clock. I haven't gone into Laszlo development yet, but if everything has to be coded from scratch, albeit with good basic libraries, it would seem you could be way more productive with Flex unless you really stay in the traditional application look: trees, tabs, etc. And even then I wonder. Any thoughts? Cheers, Marc