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News: Lightning-rod gone? JBoss credits growth to founder's leaving

  1. In "JBoss credits growth to founder's departure," Shaun Connolly, Red Hat's VP of Product Management at JBoss, says that with Marc Fleury gone, companies and organizations are more willing to work more closely with JBoss.
    Fleury was successful in starting up the company, but was not the right man to lead it after the acquisition by Red Hat, according to Connolly. "JBoss would not have been where we are today if we hadn't had his sound bites out there in a very quotable fashion," he said. "But being part of Red Hat, there is a different personality and relationship with the enterprise that we sell into."
    Is this a good thing? While more interaction is better than less (presumably!), JBoss' constant willingness to "mix it up" has been good for the industry - consider its aggressive marketing of AOP, its sponsoring of Hibernate and other popular tools, as well as its free application server (a rarity not too long ago, when application servers tended to be rather expensive.) Anyone miss the old JBoss, shenanigans and all?

    Threaded Messages (26)

  2. Anyone miss the old JBoss, shenanigans and all? No. Did you want another astroturfing scandal?
  3. "But being part of Red Hat, there is a different personality and relationship with the enterprise that we sell into."
    And what kind of relationship would that be? More professional? But, from purely professional perspective the comment about Fleury is unethical.
  4. "But being part of Red Hat, there is a different personality and relationship with the enterprise that we sell into."


    And what kind of relationship would that be? More professional? But, from purely professional perspective the comment about Fleury is unethical.
    Not really. Most startups outgrow their founders. It takes something special to build a company from the ground up, and generally large companies object to anything special. What's essential in one stage is baggage in another. Of course that fails to explain Larry Ellison...
  5. "But being part of Red Hat, there is a different personality and relationship with the enterprise that we sell into."


    And what kind of relationship would that be? More professional? But, from purely professional perspective the comment about Fleury is unethical.
    I'm going out on a limb here, but I completely agree. It is completely inappropriate, uncalled for and unnecessary. When I was at JBoss, Shaun had Marc's utmost loyalty and support even sometimes when it was undeserved it is very sad to see that it is not repaid in kind. For my part, I'm going to continue to be mostly complimentary in the press to my former colleagues at JBoss while building Buni.org in the same kind of easy-spiritedness (i.e. http://blog.buni.org/blog/acoliver/2007/05/15/Talk-to-BLU-at-MIT-and-PLUG-West-at-Unisys) that made me stay at JBoss on the good days and bad.
  6. Anyone miss the old JBoss, shenanigans and all?
    Not me. The funny thing is I think TSS misses the "shenanigans" the most, good traffic generation and all ;-). Rob Misek Tangosol, Inc.
  7. Anyone miss the old JBoss, shenanigans and all?


    Not me.

    The funny thing is I think TSS misses the "shenanigans" the most, good traffic generation and all ;-).
    I don't, as editor of TSS. That crap didn't contribute to the value of TSS in the slightest, IMO. I sometimes miss JBoss being fun and controversial... but the astroturfing, the mean-spirited competitive urge? Naaah...
  8. The article title and lead-in are definitely a grabber, but I've been consistent in my thoughts re: life after Marc. I posted JBoss Reloaded blog back in March: http://blogs.jboss.com/blog/sconnolly/2007/03/01/JBoss_Reloaded.txt And I posted a blog earlier today about this particular article at http://connollyshaun.blogspot.com/2007/05/so-hows-life-after-marc-fleury.html A snippet from my blog post: "Marc was never shy to speak his mind, and that fact helped keep JBoss in the news as much as our great technology did. Marc's persona fueled love/hate feelings forever preserved on the Internet; if you Google "Marc Fleury", you will get hundreds of thousands of hits. Love him or hate him, you have to give Marc props for taking a huge risk in 1999 and creating a software business that was valued at $350M in June 2006.". I am quite happy with the success JBoss is having as part of Red Hat, but I do not credit that success to one person joining...or one person leaving. We've got a great team of folks focused on the continued success of JBoss. - Shaun Connolly
  9. I would think that organizations are more willing to work with JBoss, now, as it has been augmented by Red Hat's distribution channels. ie. they smell large buckets of money. I doubt any notable organization (clearly, that removes Apache) would base financial decisions on some personality differences. If that were the case, 50% of CEOs would be out of their jobs. ;-)
  10. Re: misguided[ Go to top ]

    I see zero correlation between Fleury leaving and JBoss' self-proclaimed growth, and besides its a show-me-don't-tell-me effort. JBoss product release schedules are not a replacement for taking accounts away from WebLogic and WebSphere, though I suspect they are doing something about that, as well... To count a single thing so far as a breakthru is essentially insider information because they have yet to show JEE5 support, or any Linux migration stories, as would be expected by now...Fleury getting even off-the-cuff slammed for his vigorous and well executed defense of the JBoss franchise is revisionist history... Without him, people like Shaun who apparently have misread the market perception of JBoss would have been running the show, I greatly respect his product management skills, as this is core of a software company's leadership, but to insinuate that Marc's leaving is anything but a personal decision, and, I should add, a reduced threat to Szulik's position, is naive...
  11. To comment on posts by Andy and Douglas... For those who know me, they know I don't throw people under the bus. I feel my blogs re: Marc have been written with respect. Frankly I'm not happy with the article's implications and that is why I posted my blog to clarify. http://connollyshaun.blogspot.com/2007/05/so-hows-life-after-marc-fleury.html If you want to understand my thoughts on this topic and others...read and comment on my blog...since I'm the one who actually wrote that. And yes Andy, my blogs are still a little too long...I'm working on that. ;-)
  12. If you were quoted out of context or misquoted I apologize. That has happened to me on occasion. Fortunately I've always been able to get it corrected. I however highly accredit JBoss's success to Marc. There would be no JBoss had there not been a Marc. Despite modern corporate operational theory, individual people matter and the individuals Marc attracted are what made JBoss successful and set the basis on which your present success was built. Cheers to you, Sacha, Marc, JBoss and Red Hat all of whom I wish continued success and civility.
  13. +1 w/ A.O.[ Go to top ]

    Yes, Marc should be credited for growth of jBoss to date. Also, in general, this recent growth should still be credited to Marc - in business there is this delayed result based on actions taken a few Qtrs back. He added the cash of Redhat and contacts of RedHat and customers of RedHat. Next years growth or lack of should be credited to the current Red Hat execs. Based on the tone of their headline - it seems they could be focusing a bit more on bus. fundamentals, but what ever their methods, lets see next years results. Maybe they too should dress like the Joker at TSS to compare the slope of their growth to slope of Marc's growth. .V
  14. It is natural and I would be personally surprised if Mark stayed with Red Hat for any significant period of time. It is stressful enough to run a startup and it’s even more stressful to adapt to a completely different dominant culture. Moreover, Mark personality (as far as I can judge from the distance) is suited for startups and not for a corporate environment. It would be interesting to see how (and for how long) Cameron and other folks from Tangosol will fare in Oracle... Best, Nikita Ivanov GridGain - Open Source Grid Computing For Java
  15. Orasol[ Go to top ]

    It would be interesting to see how (and for how long) Cameron and other folks from Tangosol will fare in Oracle...
    I'm just interested to see how long they can put up with me .. ;-) Seriously though, Thomas Kurian's organization (Oracle Fusion Middleware) seems very good so far. That doesn't mean it's easy or that the inconveniences of a large organization aren't there .. all that is just a given in a big company. Nonetheless, the Oracle Fusion Middleware division is an effective organization with good strategic focus, and the people we've dealt with have been really good. And so far, we have retained every single employee -- in fact, we have lost only one employee in the last seven years! I think that Marc made a mistake when he chose to not sell to Oracle, but at least he's done OK .. Peace, Cameron Purdy Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  16. Re: mistake[ Go to top ]

    What kind of mistake, Oracle would have paid more? Oracle, I thought, has an app sever program with OC4J in Fusion, would they rip and replace that, and pay a premium for it... Does Oracle have better management? Last time I checked that was a seriously large organization that would have buried JBoss from the outset, not allowing people like Connolly to move in to a management position... Does Oracle have a better image? Outside of hostile take-overs, has there been some compelling viewpoint that working at Oracle is better than working at Red Hat, or is this a hip-hop-like East v. West philosophy... Is Oracle better positioned? Up in-the-air as to who is going to win the Linux battle, I am sure there is a theory that ORCL makes a run at leadership, but the farther away Red Hat goes from the OS, 'up-the-stack', the harder they are to catch... Does Oracle have better products? I'll leave that one for debate to be solved in the future, particularly when Fusion "launches"... I think you are consciously stating your biased viewpoint as this is now your employer, but it doesn't make much sense to pitch a battle with employees of JBoss, unless, of course, you have become that comfortable to dish it out, now that the Master has retired...
  17. Re: Orasol[ Go to top ]

    And so far, we have retained every single employee -- in fact, we have lost only one employee in the last seven years!
    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
    Retained every single employee of 5? That doesn't surprise me! Would be more surprising to me if you had retained every employee of 100 or more :-).
  18. Re: Orasol[ Go to top ]

    Retained every single employee of 5? That doesn't surprise me!
    Would be more surprising to me if you had retained every employee of 100 or more :-).
    Tough crowd, tough crowd ;-) (FWIW - Our attrition rate was around 1%.) Peace, Cameron Purdy Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  19. Back in the days of web apps rather than the re-emergance of fit client, then yes, JBoss was great. But does anyone still start new projects with JBoss? Shout out, because where I work it's become irrelevant. Spring has Sprung, the grass is riz, ...etc RESTFul is out there as well. SOAP is staggering on, under a growing weight of dissatisfaction with SOA. And there are all these mutterings about msoft actually having some really good stuff in the pipeline (I really should go and take a look). Jonathan
  20. Quite a few in the last weeks and months. If you are living in Germany you would be surprised how much of the stuff you get in contact each day is handled by a JBoss server in the background.
  21. Explain how you do distributed transactions, HA remoting (production-able) and serve web pages...using only Spring and nothing else? Spring certainly competes with EJB3 as a programming model but these kinds of moronic statements "oh you don't need JBoss because you have Spring" show more on the hire-ability of the speaker than suitability of the technology. I don't need a cars to go back and forth anymore...I have ethanol! (Ethanol being a substitute for petroleum used in some automobiles) I think Spring is slowly giving way as its web framework shows its age (GWT and things like Flex replace it), its injection gives way to attribute based tech for simple stuff and Guice for complex stuff.
  22. Actually, it was a serious request. Because web pages are served up by far simpler systems than JBoss. And no new projects (that I know of) are using EJB in any form. Even JPA is struggling to find space. You obviously still do have some reason to keep using JBoss.
  23. Actually, it was a serious request. Because web pages are served up by far simpler systems than JBoss. And no new projects (that I know of) are using EJB in any form. Even JPA is struggling to find space.

    You obviously still do have some reason to keep using JBoss.
    What.... ???? I'm seing projects almost every week that is started up and that will be implemented with JEE and in JBoss, both WEB apps and others. Of course other techniques like Spring is also used. But to say that JBoss and JEE has reach some kind of a dead end - I really don't believe that. regards, /L
  24. Which industry? Just passing interest mind you. Jonathan
  25. hm, i've examples in many kind of business like gaming industry, telecom, stock exchange, travel... etc. regards, /L
  26. It is bad form for Shaun Connolly to allow himself to be associated with statements like "Marc Fleury's oversised ego stood in the way of partnerships" and "JBoss credits growth to founder's leaving". There are two things that are common knowledge. Marc Fleury's oversized intelligence was largely responsible for the product that attracts the partnerships in the first place. Marc would not have made a statement like "JBoss credits growth to founder's leaving" without showing us a graph of growth data versus numbers of days since founder left. Otherwise, it all sounds like wishful thinking. You can judge a man by how he speaks of his albeit difficult friend to a new acquaintance.
  27. Marc Fleury's oversized intelligence was largely responsible for the product that attracts the partnerships in the first place. Marc would not have made a statement like "JBoss credits growth to founder's leaving" without showing us a graph of growth data versus numbers of days since founder left.
    You're joking, right? Peace, Cameron Purdy Tangosol Coherence: The Java Data Grid