Discussions

News: IDE Showdown at Cologne JUG

  1. IDE Showdown at Cologne JUG (57 messages)

    On July 3rd, the Cologne JUG conducted an IDE shootout that included Maxim Shafirov, Mike Aizatsky, and Ann Oreshnikova from JetBrains, Roman Strobl from NetBeans, Wayne Beaton from the Eclipse Foundation, and Frank Nimphius of Oracle. Each of the four groups were given 30 minutes to show off their wares. This gave all that attended the opportunity to see each of the IDEs in action in a head-to-head format.
    Taken as a whole the IDE shootout at the Cologne JUG showed how competition amongst the various IDE offerings has really helped to boost developer productivity. It also demonstrated that the commanding lead that Eclipse currently enjoys is not so safe. They need to keep innovating in order to maintain that lead as the others keep pushing forward in the market. JetBrains clearly demonstrated why they’ve earned their reputation and how they plan on keeping it. The take away from this JUG meeting is that there is still much innovation to be done in the IDE arena to better support and better enable productivity for us, the developer. Hats off to the Cologne JUG for organizing this great evening.
    Read IDE Showdown - Evangelists duke it out at Cologne JUG

    Threaded Messages (57)

  2. Eclipse enjoys a commanding lead? I hope they're talking about user base...
  3. Eclipse enjoys a commanding lead? I hope they're talking about user base...
    No doubt that they are. I went on the Eclipse site last week after their latest release. Unbelievable - took me 10 minutes to find a document that would tell me what improvements they'd made. And what were they? Stuff that was in IDEA 18 months ago. The JetBrains website on the other hand is simple, clean and tells me why I want to use the product. Oh, and it makes it simple to get hold of the product too. I know that one is an Open Source framework and the other something the company has to sell but this still makes big difference to my decision to investigate the latest cut of Eclipse further (and I was using Eclipse back at version 1). They should have had a proper code-off, creating a small app in a fixed amount of time, together with tests etc. IDEA would have won by a country mile. After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...
  4. I went on the Eclipse site last week after their latest release. Unbelievable - took me 10 minutes to find a document that would tell me what improvements they'd made.
    I also tried the 'europe' release after announcement. I had 4 crashes and 2 hangs in 6 hours, which is more than i'v got during the past 6 YEARS of daily use with IDEA. And Eclipse (still) has some of the worst and most inconsistent UI designs i'v ever seen in a computer program. My favorite must be these completely useless modal error dialog boxes, like "the operation resulted in error" and then "" button, which reveals the enlightening "the operation resulted in error" -explanation. /Henri Karapuu
  5. NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...
    NetBeans 6 is still alpha. Sun has from now until November to improve performance which is high on the priority list from what I can tell. I remember the 5.5 alphas and betas weren't very hot but when the final version came out it was very stable. I have not used IntelliJ though I am tempted to try the trial version someday. You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality? I know that the code editor has been completely rewritten, and tons of new features have been added in 6.0. Looking at the feature list I would not say that it has only 5% of what Eclipse and IntelliJ have. Thanks, Ryan
  6. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...


    You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality?
    Yeah, that sounds like a pretty tough statement to me too. I used to be a 'NetBeans snob', but lately I've been using version 5.5.1 and it's actually quite nice. The problem I have with Eclipse is the JSP editor - I've tried WTP, MyEclipse, and Lomboz, but none provide a JSP editor that is as good as NetBeans's.
  7. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...


    You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality?
    Again I'd be interested to see some examples. I prefer IDEA of the main 3 but use Netbeans for certain tasks (particularly updating JDOCS and the profiler) and find it generally excellent. It's also a really good first IDE for someone learning Java/JEE/JME since its so easy to set-up and find your way around.
  8. NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    NetBeans 6 is still alpha. Sun has from now until November to improve performance which is high on the priority list from what I can tell. I remember the 5.5 alphas and betas weren't very hot but when the final version came out it was very stable.
    The reason I tried it was gushing commenst about how awesome it was (on JavaLobby I think). The pop-up code help, auto-complete and inspection stuff was so slow - but you're right, maybe it'll get better.
    I have not used IntelliJ though I am tempted to try the trial version someday. You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality?
    Try IDEA! A colleague persuaded me to about 2 years ago (used to use Eclipse) and I haven't looked back (other than to check every now and again to see how the competition is faring). I would pay my own money to use IDEA - it is that good. My productivity went up by an order of magnitude and I am not joking. OK. Code navigation in IDEA is indescribably better than either Eclipse or NetBeans. Cursor on an interface method? Want to see what implementations of that method look like without tedious searching "Browse Implementations"? CTRL+SHIT+I. Want to navigate to an implementation of the method? CTRL+ALT+B. Looking for a method but can't remember what class it's on? CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+N. This will instantaneously find the method and accepts wildcards and camel-casing. It searches thru JavaScript methods too. There are tons of Flash demos of IntelliJ on the JetBrains site - check them out. The code inspection is awesome - I believe Eclipse/NetBeans have taken IDEA's lead and cut the gap here but IDEA has had this for over 2 years. Unused variables? Unnecessary initialization? Possible NPEs? Simplify if-blocks? Convert if-else to ternary operator. Reverse an if-test. I could go on. Code generation - incredible. Write a private variable, ALT-ENTER will give you choices (generate getter/setter/both, add Constructor parameter). Refactoring, again awesome, extract-method, parameter, field, constant; everything is a keystroke away - I barely use the mouse anymore. One thing: if you try IDEA, learn the keymap, read the tips and spend time finding out about functionality it has. I'm still constantly amazed - for example, IDEA looks at Strings in your app and analyses them to see if they look like file paths (or resource paths, e.g. to an image). You can autocomplete within these Strings (can you believe that?). CTRL+SHIFT+I inside a String path to a image will pop up the image. You can even cycle thru images in a directory like this - without clicking the mouse once. I also hate it when people comment on how great IDEs are without trying the competition. That's why I tried the competition. Chris
  9. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    Want to see what implementations of that method look like without tedious searching "Browse Implementations"? CTRL+SHIT+I.
    I don't know why, but I found this unbelievably funny. Must be a Brit thing. Probably the notion that JetBrains would build an IDE that required close proximity to a bathroom to get the best out of it. Anyway, I completely agree. I paid for my first IntelliJ license about five years ago and have still yet to find anything that would make me switch; even for free.
  10. Double or quits[ Go to top ]

    I don't know why, but I found this unbelievably funny.
    There's no way to edit the post after posting (I noticed this about 5 seconds too late).
    Anyway, I completely agree. I paid for my first IntelliJ license about five years ago and have still yet to find anything that would make me switch; even for free.
    Thing is - it takes 3-4 weeks of using IDEA to appreciate it and learn all of the stuff. I make an effort now to print out the help/keymap of Eclipse and NetBeans and there's so little stuff you can do compared with IDEA. I'm not saying it's perfect and Eclipse still has stuff about it that's better (working sets, for example) but NetBeans does not come close. Granted, NetBeans is a lot better than it was but mostly in the same way that pneumonia is better than double-pneumonia.
  11. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    I also hate it when people comment on how great IDEs are without trying the competition. That's why I tried the competition.

    Chris
    Your statement on "Code generation" implies taht you have to hate yourself, since you did not try Eclipse(from 3.2) and NB 6.0.
  12. Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    Your statement on "Code generation" implies taht you have to hate yourself, since you did not try Eclipse(from 3.2) and NB 6.0.
    My quote: The code inspection is awesome - I believe Eclipse/NetBeans have taken IDEA's lead and cut the gap here but IDEA has had this for over 2 years Also applies to code generation, it's true and I agree that Eclipse has stolen wholesale from IDEA and has closed the gap a lot (its navigation is still rubbish though). But.. create a class, type private String var; and what does Eclipse do? Erm.. nothing. I have to grab the mouse, click the Source menu, navigate to "Generate Getters and Setters", be confronted with a pretty complicated dialog (all things considered). I now want to create a contructor. With IDEA this is ALT+ENTER but not with Eclipse, oh no! I have to go back to the Source menu again. Now add another field, private int i. How do I add this as a constructor parameter? IDEA will just pop up a little lightbulb and generate the code with one press of ENTER. But is this possible in Eclipse? Not as far as I can see. Back to the Source menu - no option to "Add variable to Constructor" - I have to create another constructor and delete the first one! This is just one example why I don't hate myself.
  13. Re: Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    Your statement on "Code generation" implies taht you have to hate yourself, since you did not try Eclipse(from 3.2) and NB 6.0.


    My quote:
    The code inspection is awesome - I believe Eclipse/NetBeans have taken IDEA's lead and cut the gap here but IDEA has had this for over 2 years

    Also applies to code generation, it's true and I agree that Eclipse has stolen wholesale from IDEA and has closed the gap a lot (its navigation is still rubbish though).

    But.. create a class, type private String var; and what does Eclipse do? Erm.. nothing. I have to grab the mouse, click the Source menu, navigate to "Generate Getters and Setters", be confronted with a pretty complicated dialog (all things considered). I now want to create a contructor. With IDEA this is ALT+ENTER but not with Eclipse, oh no! I have to go back to the Source menu again.

    Now add another field, private int i. How do I add this as a constructor parameter? IDEA will just pop up a little lightbulb and generate the code with one press of ENTER. But is this possible in Eclipse? Not as far as I can see. Back to the Source menu - no option to "Add variable to Constructor" - I have to create another constructor and delete the first one!

    This is just one example why I don't hate myself.
    The "alt + ins" thingy is completely carbon copied from IntelliJ to NetBeans6. Not sure about adding the constructor arg. But hey, you paid 250 bucks, you are supposed to get something extra for the money. And the thing is they keep coming up new versions and keep luring in your 250 bucks - sometimes it's worth it, others really not.
  14. Re: Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    The "alt + ins" thingy is completely carbon copied from IntelliJ to NetBeans6. Not sure about adding the constructor arg.
    Well innovated NetBeans6! Yours is not exactly a winning argument anyway really is it? To paraphrase "If you wait 2 years it will be in a (slow) NetBeans alpha. Except for the stuff that isn't. Ermm..."
    But hey, you paid 250 bucks, you are supposed to get something extra for the money.
    It was 500USD and luckily I don't pay for it myself (though I would).
    And the thing is they keep coming up new versions and keep luring in your 250 bucks - sometimes it's worth it, others really not.
    You're spot on there though - no way does version 7 warrant a full new release from what I can see; should be 6.1.
  15. Re: Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    The "alt + ins" thingy is completely carbon copied from IntelliJ to NetBeans6. Not sure about adding the constructor arg.

    Well innovated NetBeans6! Yours is not exactly a winning argument anyway really is it? To paraphrase "If you wait 2 years it will be in a (slow) NetBeans alpha. Except for the stuff that isn't. Ermm..."
    Oh, I was not trying to argue anything at all. It's just informational. And I'd give NetBeans credit for learning from someone else that does it better.


    But hey, you paid 250 bucks, you are supposed to get something extra for the money.

    It was 500USD and luckily I don't pay for it myself (though I would).

    And the thing is they keep coming up new versions and keep luring in your 250 bucks - sometimes it's worth it, others really not.

    You're spot on there though - no way does version 7 warrant a full new release from what I can see; should be 6.1.
  16. Re: Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    Your statement on "Code generation" implies taht you have to hate yourself, since you did not try Eclipse(from 3.2) and NB 6.0.


    My quote:
    The code inspection is awesome - I believe Eclipse/NetBeans have taken IDEA's lead and cut the gap here but IDEA has had this for over 2 years

    Also applies to code generation, it's true and I agree that Eclipse has stolen wholesale from IDEA and has closed the gap a lot (its navigation is still rubbish though).

    But.. create a class, type private String var; and what does Eclipse do? Erm.. nothing. I have to grab the mouse, click the Source menu, navigate to "Generate Getters and Setters", be confronted with a pretty complicated dialog (all things considered). I now want to create a contructor. With IDEA this is ALT+ENTER but not with Eclipse, oh no! I have to go back to the Source menu again.

    Now add another field, private int i. How do I add this as a constructor parameter? IDEA will just pop up a little lightbulb and generate the code with one press of ENTER. But is this possible in Eclipse? Not as far as I can see. Back to the Source menu - no option to "Add variable to Constructor" - I have to create another constructor and delete the first one!

    This is just one example why I don't hate myself.


    The "alt + ins" thingy is completely carbon copied from IntelliJ to NetBeans6. Not sure about adding the constructor arg.

    But hey, you paid 250 bucks, you are supposed to get something extra for the money. And the thing is they keep coming up new versions and keep luring in your 250 bucks - sometimes it's worth it, others really not.
    Upgrades for personal are $150usd, not 250. Also, for a tool that is used 5 days a week 5-8 hrs a day, $149 is cheap. Its like using a broken can opener(not saying anyone's IDE is broken) vs. buying a new one. Life is too short not to spend a couple of bucks on a tool that is used so often.


  17. But.. create a class, type private String var; and what does Eclipse do? Erm.. nothing. I have to grab the mouse, click the Source menu, navigate to "Generate Getters and Setters", be confronted with a pretty complicated dialog (all things considered). I now want to create a contructor. With IDEA this is ALT+ENTER but not with Eclipse, oh no! I have to go back to the Source menu again.

    Now add another field, private int i. How do I add this as a constructor parameter? IDEA will just pop up a little lightbulb and generate the code with one press of ENTER. But is this possible in Eclipse? Not as far as I can see. Back to the Source menu - no option to "Add variable to Constructor" - I have to create another constructor and delete the first one!
    Hi, you exaggerate here a little bit, because in Eclipse you can also hit ALT+SHIFT+S for popping up a local menu which lets you generate the same things as in IDEA. I have used both IDEs and generally I have to agree upon the point that IDEA is still a bit better in user experience than Eclipse. But this gap is not that great (IDEA6 vs. Eclipse Europa) in normal Java development. The biggest differences are IMHO in the JEE space, where the HTML/JSP editor support in IDEA is far better than Eclipse. Also I think the support of Spring in the new IDEA7M1 version is better than the Spring-Ide plugin in Eclipse.
  18. "you exaggerate here a little bit, because in Eclipse you can also hit ALT+SHIFT+S for popping up a local menu which lets you generate the same things as in IDEA. I have used both IDEs and generally I have to agree upon the point that IDEA is still a bit better in user experience than Eclipse. But this gap is not that great (IDEA6 vs. Eclipse Europa) in normal Java development." I use both and I strongly disagree. 1) IDEA supports many more types of file help than eclipse. It offers various levels of code inspection/autocomplete on xml, ant build.xml files (which is really useful), javascript, html. All are very well done and hugely useful. 2) code inspections far surpass what eclipse provides. At work we IDEA users can always identify the eclipse users' code because it usually lights up like a christmas tree with all the code issues. 3) IDEA editor is better. You post a string into code and you get automatic escaping. You hit ctrl-alt-L and you get code formatting INCLUDING fixing common javadoc problems. The bookmarks in IDEA kill eclipse: Eclipse's are mostly worthless, in IDEA you can have 10 bookmarks (ctrl-shift 1 sets bookmark #1 and ctrl-1 navigates to it from anywhere... hugely useful when switching between two chunks of code), ctrl D for duplicate line (I use all the time, eclipse lacks), much better autocomplete, much better at auto-closing parens/quotes, etc, etc. 4) Perforce support is 10000x better in IDEA. I found eclipse to be worthless and just use the perforce client instead. IDEA pretty much eliminates the need to use the perforce client (now even has an offline mode!). Can't speak to SVN or others though..... 5) refactoring is better, searches text/xml files along with java files. 6) as others have said, the code generation stuff much surpasses eclipse. The only thing in Eclipse that beats IDEA is the little X on the tabs to close them :) I don't get why jetbrains just doesn't do it. Oh yeah and Eclipse loads much faster, which is nice. IMO if you are a serious coder, you do yourself a disservice by not using IDEA. A typical hard-core java guy in the US should be at least at the $100K level, so the 0.5% fee for a tool that increases productivity is nothing. If you take the initial time to learn the keystrokes, the code inspections, debugger, etc your productivity will increase hugely.
  19. Re: Comparison IDEA vs. Eclipse[ Go to top ]

    "you exaggerate here a little bit, because in Eclipse you can also hit ALT+SHIFT+S for popping up a local menu which lets you generate the same things as in IDEA. I have used both IDEs and generally I have to agree upon the point that IDEA is still a bit better in user experience than Eclipse. But this gap is not that great (IDEA6 vs. Eclipse Europa) in normal Java development."

    I use both and I strongly disagree.

    1) IDEA supports many more types of file help than eclipse. It offers various levels of code inspection/autocomplete on xml, ant build.xml files (which is really useful), javascript, html. All are very well done and hugely useful.
    2) code inspections far surpass what eclipse provides. At work we IDEA users can always identify the eclipse users' code because it usually lights up like a christmas tree with all the code issues.
    3) IDEA editor is better. You post a string into code and you get automatic escaping. You hit ctrl-alt-L and you get code formatting INCLUDING fixing common javadoc problems. The bookmarks in IDEA kill eclipse: Eclipse's are mostly worthless, in IDEA you can have 10 bookmarks (ctrl-shift 1 sets bookmark #1 and ctrl-1 navigates to it from anywhere... hugely useful when switching between two chunks of code), ctrl D for duplicate line (I use all the time, eclipse lacks), much better autocomplete, much better at auto-closing parens/quotes, etc, etc.
    4) Perforce support is 10000x better in IDEA. I found eclipse to be worthless and just use the perforce client instead. IDEA pretty much eliminates the need to use the perforce client (now even has an offline mode!). Can't speak to SVN or others though.....
    5) refactoring is better, searches text/xml files along with java files.
    6) as others have said, the code generation stuff much surpasses eclipse.

    The only thing in Eclipse that beats IDEA is the little X on the tabs to close them :) I don't get why jetbrains just doesn't do it. Oh yeah and Eclipse loads much faster, which is nice.

    IMO if you are a serious coder, you do yourself a disservice by not using IDEA. A typical hard-core java guy in the US should be at least at the $100K level, so the 0.5% fee for a tool that increases productivity is nothing.

    If you take the initial time to learn the keystrokes, the code inspections, debugger, etc your productivity will increase hugely.
    +1
  20. I use both and I strongly disagree.

    1) IDEA supports many more types of file help than eclipse. It offers various levels of code inspection/autocomplete on xml, ant build.xml files (which is really useful), javascript, html. All are very well done and hugely useful.
    2) code inspections far surpass what eclipse provides. At work we IDEA users can always identify the eclipse users' code because it usually lights up like a christmas tree with all the code issues.
    3) IDEA editor is better. You post a string into code and you get automatic escaping. You hit ctrl-alt-L and you get code formatting INCLUDING fixing common javadoc problems. The bookmarks in IDEA kill eclipse: Eclipse's are mostly worthless, in IDEA you can have 10 bookmarks (ctrl-shift 1 sets bookmark #1 and ctrl-1 navigates to it from anywhere... hugely useful when switching between two chunks of code), ctrl D for duplicate line (I use all the time, eclipse lacks), much better autocomplete, much better at auto-closing parens/quotes, etc, etc.
    4) Perforce support is 10000x better in IDEA. I found eclipse to be worthless and just use the perforce client instead. IDEA pretty much eliminates the need to use the perforce client (now even has an offline mode!). Can't speak to SVN or others though.....
    5) refactoring is better, searches text/xml files along with java files.
    6) as others have said, the code generation stuff much surpasses eclipse.

    The only thing in Eclipse that beats IDEA is the little X on the tabs to close them :) I don't get why jetbrains just doesn't do it. Oh yeah and Eclipse loads much faster, which is nice.

    IMO if you are a serious coder, you do yourself a disservice by not using IDEA. A typical hard-core java guy in the US should be at least at the $100K level, so the 0.5% fee for a tool that increases productivity is nothing.

    If you take the initial time to learn the keystrokes, the code inspections, debugger, etc your productivity will increase hugely.
    Hi, as I have written I also used both and I agree that the overall usability is better in IDEA than Eclipse, especially when it comes to J(2)EE development. But the point stands that the IDEA users tend to exaggerate their IDE over Eclipse. My answers to your points only showing the exaggeration: 1. Which files does Eclipse (plus free available plugins) not support? Autocompletion and inspection (with the help of eg. FindBugs-Plugin) is also full available in Eclipse. 2. That's only partly right. As an experienced developer you can install the above mentioned FindBugs or checkstyle-Plugins to higher your code quality. 3. With the new "save Action" in Eclipse Europa you can configure nearly the same things. CTRL+ALT+DOWN is absolutely the same as CTRL+D in IDEA. I found it always annoying that in IDEA you can't move a code block out of the scoped block, which is easy in Eclipse (ALT+DOWN/UP). 4. Perforce is of no interest for me. 5. Refactoring is nearly par, also the searching functionalities. 6. Ah, others have said... I can't see a feature that IDEA has, which Eclipse cpould not provide. In the new wizard for example I see an edge for Eclipse because you can define much more characteristics an artifact should have. Finally, I think IDEA has a small edge in usability as it provides more development flow than Eclipse, but featurewise they are even par. So I agree that with IDEA you are (a little) more productive, because of this usability edge. My 2cents
  21. as I have written I also used both and I agree that the overall usability is better in IDEA than Eclipse, especially when it comes to J(2)EE development.
    I use both tools every day. Eclipse is very good -- IntelliJ is a pleasure.
  22. I'm sure IDEA is very nice; I've looked at it and I liked the way it looked, but for me the project management didn't really work. Probably something I just have to get used to, but as Eclipse always has worked well for me, I didn't really felt the urge to spend a lot of time on it. But I'll probably give it another try sometime. Anyway, there are quite a few unfair/ uninformed comments here. For instance:
    Code navigation in IDEA is indescribably better than either Eclipse or NetBeans. Cursor on an interface method? Want to see what implementations of that method look like without tedious searching "Browse Implementations"? CTRL+SHIT+I. Want to navigate to an implementation of the method? CTRL+ALT+B.
    In Eclipse: cmd + t to bring up the hierarchy view of implementations and simply select one with your cursor keys to jump to it.
    Looking for a method but can't remember what class it's on? CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+N. This will instantaneously find the method and accepts wildcards and camel-casing. It searches thru JavaScript methods too.
    Eclipse's search works well enough for me. You give the file patterns you need, whether you want it over one, a set or all projects and you can use regular expressions if you want. If you use it a lot, use a hot key.
  23. I'm sure IDEA is very nice; I've looked at it and I liked the way it looked, but for me the project management didn't really work. Probably something I just have to get used to, but as Eclipse always has worked well for me, I didn't really felt the urge to spend a lot of time on it. But I'll probably give it another try sometime.
    IntelliJ is free for Open Source projects: http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/buy.html#openSource Next time use the Eclipse workspace importer and check the reference card (http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/docs/ReferenceCard60.pdf).
  24. I'm sure IDEA is very nice; I've looked at it and I liked the way it looked, but for me the project management didn't really work. Probably something I just have to get used to, but as Eclipse always has worked well for me, I didn't really felt the urge to spend a lot of time on it. But I'll probably give it another try sometime.
    IntelliJ is free for Open Source projects: http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/buy.html#openSource
    I know, and they have been kind enough to give the project I'm involved in a license in the past. And tbh, I wouldn't have a problem paying a couple of box for a product I like.
  25. In Eclipse: cmd + t to bring up the hierarchy view of implementations and simply select one with your cursor keys to jump to it
    I've just tried this; it is NOT the same thing. In IDEA you can see the impl code as you cycle thru the implementations with the cursor keys. If the method isn't an interface method then the code just pops up in front of you straight away. There's no need to navigate to anything. Try it and tell me that IDEA's implementation of this isn't an order of magnitude more user-friendly than Eclipse.
  26. In Eclipse: cmd + t to bring up the hierarchy view of implementations and simply select one with your cursor keys to jump to it

    I've just tried this; it is NOT the same thing. In IDEA you can see the impl code as you cycle thru the implementations with the cursor keys. If the method isn't an interface method then the code just pops up in front of you straight away. There's no need to navigate to anything. Try it and tell me that IDEA's implementation of this isn't an order of magnitude more user-friendly than Eclipse.
    I haven't looked at IDEA's version, and it sounds nice :) I just don't Eclipse's support for things like is poor, even if IDEA's support might be better.
  27. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...


    NetBeans 6 is still alpha. Sun has from now until November to improve performance which is high on the priority list from what I can tell. I remember the 5.5 alphas and betas weren't very hot but when the final version came out it was very stable.

    I have not used IntelliJ though I am tempted to try the trial version someday. You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality? I know that the code editor has been completely rewritten, and tons of new features have been added in 6.0. Looking at the feature list I would not say that it has only 5% of what Eclipse and IntelliJ have.

    Thanks,
    Ryan
    I also doubt that comment, the editor and refactoring now is at 80% of Eclipses possibilities which is good enough, some stuff is even better. Matiss is the UI designer to be, the general overall package is way better than what Eclipse has to offer and more stable. I personally think that NetBeans in many areas is way ahead of Eclipse and in the area where Eclipse is really good, refactoring and editing it is almost there. I personally tend to use MyEclipse because I dont really like the unstable semi stable and you have to add a lot of configuration yourself approach of the Eclipse compound releases of Callisto and Europa, I will give Europa another chance but, given the past experiences, Eclipse still probably has to go a long way to become really user friendly in the JEE area. Without MyEclipse Eclipse would have been dead for a long time for me.
  28. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    After the latest guff about NetBeans 6 I used that for a few days too. Good grief - it's still a joke. Unbelievable slow and with roughly 5% of both Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Kudos to their profiler though...


    NetBeans 6 is still alpha. Sun has from now until November to improve performance which is high on the priority list from what I can tell. I remember the 5.5 alphas and betas weren't very hot but when the final version came out it was very stable.

    I have not used IntelliJ though I am tempted to try the trial version someday. You said that NetBeans has roughly 5% of Eclipse and IDEA's functionality. Could you please give some examples of missing functionality? I know that the code editor has been completely rewritten, and tons of new features have been added in 6.0. Looking at the feature list I would not say that it has only 5% of what Eclipse and IntelliJ have.

    Thanks,
    Ryan
    The person is using a persuasion technique of "scientific proof" by making up some random percentile number, even though it has NO statistical background. Its the U in FUD.
  29. Re: NetBeans 6[ Go to top ]

    The person is using a persuasion technique of "scientific proof" by making up some random percentile number, even though it has NO statistical background. Its the U in FUD.
    I tried scientifically proving it, but my test tube broke and I burnt my eyebrows off with a bunsen burner. Turns out that making up statistics was much easier ;-) That is why I said they should have a code-off. My productivity has rocketed since moving from Eclipse to IDEA - probably up by a factor of 4 or 5. NetBeans is at least 4 times as bad again, hence the 5%.
  30. Kudos to their profiler though...
    If you are looking for a great profiler, you should take a look at YourKit (BTW, created by the former JetBrainers ;-)).
  31. What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    I've tried them all and I think IntelliJ is way superior. Why where they not included?
  32. Re: What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    I've tried them all and I think IntelliJ is way superior. Why where they not included?
    JetBrains makes Intellij IDEA.
  33. Re: What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    IntelliJ IDEA is made by JetBrains, so they were present
  34. Re: What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    What? Really? Maybe I should upgrade. Has much changed since they were called IntelliJ? ;)
  35. Re: What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    JetBrains is a company. IntelliJ is a product.
  36. Re: What about IntelliJ?[ Go to top ]

    JetBrains is a company. IntelliJ is a product.
    The point of the other dude was that this has not been always true - originally the name of the company was 'IntelliJ Software', if i remember correctly. Been using their stuff since 2001. /Henri Karapuu
  37. IntelliJ 7 — Milestone 1[ Go to top ]

    The "IntelliJ 7 - Milestone 1" is available for download: http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/nextversion/ There is an Eclipse workspace importer for the Eclipse users.
  38. Re: IntelliJ 7 — Milestone 1[ Go to top ]

    I'm using the M1b and ... is it just me or this version doesn't include the persistence.xml file into the ear file even though it copies that file to the exploded directory? That prevents from learning Seam. And one of the problems with the M1b is that you can't have 2 exactly the same url-pattern's in the web.xml (that's the reason I used /* in the 1st filter mapping and used /** in the 2nd filter-mapping in the following example). myFilter /* PageInformationFilter /**
  39. Re: IntelliJ 7 — Milestone 1[ Go to top ]

    I'm using the M1b and ... is it just me or this version doesn't include the persistence.xml file into the ear file even though it copies that file to the exploded directory? That prevents from learning Seam.

    And one of the problems with the M1b is that you can't have 2 exactly the same url-pattern's in the web.xml (that's the reason I used /* in the 1st filter mapping and used /** in the 2nd filter-mapping in the following example).


    myFilter
    /*


    PageInformationFilter
    /**
    Ever tried to ask JetBrains? They are very responsive... :-)
  40. IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    I find IntelliJ IDEA to have the best user experience, better real-time analysis of code, and better refactorings. Also, its Spring and Hibernate support in the latest 7.0 beta is awesome. Try it for a month and it will be hard to ever switch back to Eclipse. That being said, competition amongst IDEs is great and I certainly hope all of the contenders continue to improve and innovate.
  41. Re: IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    I find IntelliJ IDEA to have the best user experience, better real-time analysis of code, and better refactorings. Also, its Spring and Hibernate support in the latest 7.0 beta is awesome.

    Try it for a month and it will be hard to ever switch back to Eclipse. That being said, competition amongst IDEs is great and I certainly hope all of the contenders continue to improve and innovate.
    In my experience the only reason (some) developers tend to put up with Eclipse's issues is that it is free - I mean "free" only as in beer (they mostly dont care about the other "free"), you do not have to pay for it. The other reason - smaller, is sheer ignorance. Not that Eclipse is utterly useless - I think it is a great tool, but I cannot for the life of me understand the reluctance in users to even try IDEA - it is one avenue of hope that maybe - just maybe it is a fraction better and easier to use than what they already know. Either people are really stingy or they are just averse to change. I just want to be productive without an IDE stumbling into me....and no other than IDEA fits the cue as far as Java, XML, config properties files & XPRESS is concerned.
  42. Re: IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    I just want to be productive without an IDE stumbling into me....and no other than IDEA fits the cue as far as Java, XML, config properties files & XPRESS is concerned.
    I forgot - it is great also for html, css and javascript. And its integration with CVS and Ant is a charm.
  43. Re: IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    And its integration with CVS and Ant is a charm.
    The CVS support of Eclipse is better. :-(
  44. Re: IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    And its integration with CVS and Ant is a charm.
    The CVS support of Eclipse is better. :-(
    Not sure if you are serious.. with the :-( at the end...! But seriously, I have seen my colleagues fret and struggle while making eclipse work with CVS! I remm one of the arch's saying "I love Eclipse, but I hate Eclipse for CVS".....and he was a long time staunch Eclipse user!
  45. Re: IntelliJ IDEA favorite[ Go to top ]

    Not sure if you are serious.. with the :-( at the end...!
    Yes I am.
    But seriously, I have seen my colleagues fret and struggle while making eclipse work with CVS! I remm one of the arch's saying "I love Eclipse, but I hate Eclipse for CVS".....and he was a long time staunch Eclipse user!
    Never listen to Eclipse users! ;-)
  46. Well I'm currently using all 3 IDE (Eclipse, IDEA, NetBeans6) I've found that Eclipse has the best CVS and Subversion Integration IDEA is gret for java coding with its refactoring tools. NB6, even if it's in alpha stage and has some alpha bugs, is very similar to IDEA for java coding (even if not as good as its competitor), but has the best maven2 and ant integration because it handles maven and ant projects as native. A thing that I really don't like in Eclipse is that it can't handle projects with sub-projects inside in an easy way.
  47. Well I'm currently using all 3 IDE (Eclipse, IDEA, NetBeans6)

    I've found that Eclipse has the best CVS and Subversion Integration

    IDEA is gret for java coding with its refactoring tools.

    NB6, even if it's in alpha stage and has some alpha bugs, is very similar to IDEA for java coding (even if not as good as its competitor), but has the best maven2 and ant integration because it handles maven and ant projects as native.

    A thing that I really don't like in Eclipse is that it can't handle projects with sub-projects inside in an easy way.
    Eclipse has lots of areas which are in need for serious improvement: a) Dont make half empty packages, how about bundeling a decent jee container a decent jpa implementation etc in their jee packages b) bugs in the non core plugins, Callisto was unusable, I hope Europa finally is usable c) No decent external folder mounting within non java projects (Source folder mounts only work on java projects) etc... the rest of the list probably would go into the deficits of the various plugins Eclipse as a java ide is a good foundation but as a package which can get you up and ready for JEE coding it is lousy.
  48. It would be nice to allow everyone to view those presentations, if not to see in video the actual show.
  49. slides[ Go to top ]

    slides and further information are available via jugcologne.org. -Michael, JUGC lead
  50. Is there a video available anywhere ?
  51. Why blame other IDEs?[ Go to top ]

    The good news about IDE is that most times you can choose what and what not to use. If you don't like NetBeans or Eclipse - don't use them. If you don't want to buy IDEA - you don't have to. It is one of the reasons that makes flame wars around IDEs pointless.
  52. wait a sec...[ Go to top ]

    Guys, I don't see Intellij listed anywhere!!!!!!!!
  53. you should add the link to the Cologne JUG: http://jugcologne.org Not only as a reference, but there are more information about the event. -Michael
  54. Michael, I have added the link to the summary. I should also congratulate you here on organizing this great event.
  55. I have used IDEA v4 few years ago. Quite a pleasant trip as it was ahead from other competitors (at that time, NB 3.6 was such a bad beast!) At that time, IDEA v4 was so intuitive, I have never looked at the manual, except reading few tips displayed at startup time. Back to the future, in 2007. I have tried to use again IDEA in the beginning of the year, while compiling ServiceMix source. I have quite surprised IDEA does not support Maven out of the box. While trying to get this support from IDEA, I have met an error with IDEA giving, unfortunately, so few details and stack trace. I have suspected a proxy-like error and looked at the proxy parameters without solving my problem. I have had to contact IDEA support, and after a few number of kind email exchanges, I was said it was some parameter in my Windows repository account I have needed to set. Quite a pain to use. Somedays after, I have left ServiceMix and happily, IDEA too. More recently, I have tried again IDEA v7 M1 for another project. Oh, my, I thought everything would be so simple than years ago and that every needed action would be proposed by IDEA in the right context while right-clicking. That was no true anymore. Again, what a pain. I don't remember what I was trying to configure, but I was left to add each library to IDEA configuration one by one. As I needed to add tons of libraries, I have ended up being rapidly boring with such task. I have not found also how to tell IDEA that a project depends, from compilation, from another project (like Eclipse projects' dependencies). May be I was trying to do something that is not what to do with IDEA, but as IDEA gave me no clue how to achieve my goal, it was irritating. I have encountered other little problems, being not able to find how to do what I wanted without reading the manual, and it was too much. I have left IDEA again. Well, the code editor is pretty damn good, code inspections are in fact very good. I have used them few days ago, during just 1 hour, for a fast code inspection doing consulting. In that area, IDEA gave me more satisfaction than other Eclipse-based tools (I won't give names). Sure, code edition and navigation is better using IDEA. But menus and overall configuration don't satisfy me. IDE pros are not stronger than cons to push me using IDEA. I am stick on using alternative IDEs, Eclipse and NetBeans, and I may continue to follow that line in the future as these last IDE are improving to catch on best IDEA features. I feel JetBrains has lost to focus on users' flow. I think they have tried to embrace too many features, they may have tried to implement themselves such features, and they may have forgotten to focus on usability - quality versus quantity. I wonder if they might have lost too much time on their *own* feature implementation (like CVS, or Subversion plugin ones), instead of using community ones, and then, having at the end of the day, so little time for integration and a nice user experience. Is somebody knowing more (internal) details than me to be able to validate or not my hypothesis ? Thks. Dominique http://Www.jroller.com/page/dmdevito
  56. You're confusing problems with Maven with a problem with IDEA. For projects depending on other projects, I think you need to look at Modules inside one project. They were introduced in IDEA 5 or 6, I think. Modules let you do some nice things with dependencies amongst modules, exporting dependencies, code visibility, etc. that you can't do with Eclipse (or at least the people I worked with couldn't get Eclipse 3.1 to do what I could do with IDEA). Project management in Eclipse is a nightmare, IMO, and shows the technical rather than user focus of the Eclipse developers. Once you're familiar with the constructs IDEA is using now, I think you'll find that it's a much more intuitive and powerful system.
  57. IBM let us down[ Go to top ]

    Quote: “It [Eclipse] wasn’t intended to be an IDE, it was intended to be an open source framework to solve problems,” said Beaton. Oh, really?! To dismantle an excellent porduct and platform that was an extremely innovative IDE as well, and to replace it with a "framework to solve problems"? I don't buy it. The project was simply derailed... or failed, in my view. Phrasing the Eclipse goals this way is nothing but proclaiming that the grapes are sour. Oh, finally, the product I'm talking about is VisualAge for Java.
  58. Eclipse and IDEA[ Go to top ]

    Ok, people tend to exaggerate a lot when it comes to there favorite IDE. I started my career using IDEA (version 3 I think) and then it was the mother of all IDEs :) Then I switched my job and had to use Eclipse - it was horrible, I admit. But then a few versions later Eclipse had all the nice features of IDEA plus a few more (using many free plugins of course). And then last month our team joined an existing project written in IDEA and we also tried to develop in IDEA for a couple of weeks. I was very enthusiastic to code in IDEA again but guess what - after a week or so I had to admit that Eclipse is actually better and help my team create an Eclipse project for the code and switch back to our favorite IDE. So my advice - don't be so sure that everyone will "love" IDEA if they just tried it. It was once the best, but not any more. An ex-IDEA fan, converted to Eclipse