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News: XFire Creator Joins MuleSource

  1. XFire Creator Joins MuleSource (21 messages)

    Diephouse is the creator of XFire, the high performance open source SOAP framework. He joined MuleSource as the software architect focused on expanding Mule's web services capabilities. "While at MuleSource I'll be helping expand Mule's web services support," Dan said. "One aspect of this will be adding a CXF transport. CXF for those don't know, is an open source framework for building web services. So in the near future we should see some expanded WS capabilities - including improved support for building services JAX-WS and specifications such as WS-Addressing, WS-ReliableMessaging, and WS-Policy." Dan indicated that he wants to extend his interest in RESTful web services to encompass Mule integration in the near future. "Dan Diephouse is responsible for some of the best and most important open source software available today," said Ross Mason, CTO of MuleSource. "We're delighted that he's joining our team. His software development and web services skills are an excellent complement to our growing team, and we expect to see some great enhancements to Mule as a result." What do you think about this new collaboration?

    Threaded Messages (21)

  2. is there a fork?[ Go to top ]

    does this result in a new fork of cxf for the mule? or is there any change in the license terms for mule or cxf,does the current mule license compatible with the apache 2 lisence,or the integration will be ob mulesource only
  3. Re: is there a fork?[ Go to top ]

    No, this does NOT imply a fork. Mule will simply be using CXF for some web services functionality as it uses XFire, Axis, etc. We have no desire to fork CXF.
  4. from serviceMix to Mule[ Go to top ]

    in my book it is called treason
  5. Why treason[ Go to top ]

    XFire and Mule are not competing wiht each other.Mule is highly stable product and makes sense for a product like xfire to leverage that . Frankly Mule is gaining to save a lot of Enterprise Architects .
  6. can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    I said mule and ServiceMix are compatitors.
  7. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    I said mule and ServiceMix are compatitors.
    Not really. Mule and Camel (part of Apache ActiveMQ) are competitors. ServiceMix can theoretically be used with either Mule or Camel. Camel is used by CXF, the project that combined Celtix with Dan's XFire. The Camel project was purportedly started by Active Strachan because the Mule license wasn't open enough to be used (plus some rumor about a threatened law-suit by MuleSource, etc.) There's a lot of VC money being invested in these open source companies, and so the stakes are pretty high; some really strange things tend to go on behind the scenes. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  8. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    I said mule and ServiceMix are compatitors.


    Not really. Mule and Camel (part of Apache ActiveMQ) are competitors. ServiceMix can theoretically be used with either Mule or Camel. Camel is used by CXF, the project that combined Celtix with Dan's XFire.

    The Camel project was purportedly started by Active Strachan because the Mule license wasn't open enough to be used (plus some rumor about a threatened law-suit by MuleSource, etc.) There's a lot of VC money being invested in these open source companies, and so the stakes are pretty high; some really strange things tend to go on behind the scenes.

    Peace,

    Cameron Purdy
    Oracle Coherence: The Java Data Grid
    well the way I see it 1. Mule is an ESB implementation (http://mule.codehaus.org/display/MULE/Home) 2. ServiceMix is an ESB implementation (http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/home.html) 3. Camel is a lightweight "rule based routing & mediation engine" (read their own explanation: http://activemq.apache.org/camel/is-camel-an-esb.html) dear Mr. Diephouse once worked for ServiceMix (look at the list of workers - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/servicemix.html) and now seems to be working for Mule. so, there is no going around the fact that he moved from one compatitor to the other. if both were comercial companies, he (dan) and Mule whould have been sued by ServiceMix. in my mind it's a pitty that the open source comunity doesn't adhere to the same level of work ethic, or is it just a matter of one black sheep ?
  9. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    dear Mr. Diephouse once worked for ServiceMix (look at the list of workers - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/servicemix.html)
    and now seems to be working for Mule.

    so, there is no going around the fact that he moved from one compatitor to the other. if both were comercial companies, he (dan) and Mule whould have been sued by ServiceMix.

    in my mind it's a pitty that the open source comunity doesn't adhere to the same level of work ethic, or is it
    just a matter of one black sheep ?
    I really don't know where you get off saying this. If you knew me at all then you would know that I have done consulting around both MULE and ServiceMix in my past. My involvement in ServiceMix project itself has been minimal and mostly centered around helping get another open source project using XFire. (if you did any research into the commit history and mailing list you would see this). I often help projects do this. In fact I also helped MULE get and up running with XFire as well. I can dig up the conversations with Ross if you really want. The only difference there was they didn't make me a committer. So please let this thread die, I'm finding it increasingly ridiculous.
  10. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    So please let this thread die, I'm finding it increasingly ridiculous.
    Is someone forcing you to read it?
  11. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    Is someone forcing you to read it?
    Wouldn't you read it if it was about you? I find this treason crap ridiculous too. Accusing him for treason and assuming he should be committed to only one open source ESB for the rest of his life because he has made some patches for it, is stupid beyond belief – or did ServiceMix pay a lot of money for his effort? Dan has created an excellent product and helped voluntarily organizations from all over the world by improving those features that are most needed.
  12. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    Hi Cam,
    I said mule and ServiceMix are compatitors.


    Not really. Mule and Camel (part of Apache ActiveMQ) are competitors.
    Not true. Camel is something put together fairly recently as a routing engine, and does not cover most of the ESB features that Mule offers. Strangely, it replicates much of the ServiceMix binding components and routing patterns. Not really sure why they needed to rewrite their routing and bindings all over again (in a non-JBI way), but you can guess where the inspiration for the name "Camel" came from :). Basically, it doesn't offer anything over and above what they already had in SM.
    The Camel project was purportedly started by Active Strachan because the Mule license wasn't open enough to be used (plus some rumor about a threatened law-suit by MuleSource, etc.) There's a lot of VC money being invested in these open source companies, and so the stakes are pretty high; some really strange things tend to go on behind the scenes.
    It sounds like you've heard one dramatized side of the story. The Mule license (which has been recently been OSI approved as the CPAL license) wouldn't have been an issue for them. I'll be happy to fill you in over our next beer together. Will you be in Norway next month for JavaZone? Cheers, Ross
  13. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    Will you be in Norway next month for JavaZone?
    Planning to :) Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: The Java Data Grid
  14. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    ... Camel is something put together fairly recently as a routing engine, and does not cover most of the ESB features that Mule offers. Strangely, it replicates much of the ServiceMix binding components and routing patterns. Not really sure why they needed to rewrite their routing and bindings all over again (in a non-JBI way), but you can guess where the inspiration for the name "Camel" came from :). Basically, it doesn't offer anything over and above what they already had in SM.
    Interested people should take a look to this brand new interview with James Strachan over Apache Camel. The interview provides some details over Apache Camel, whose destination and the distinctions to ServiceMix. Roland SOA Competence Network Podcast of the Interview: http://media.libsyn.com/media/interarbor/BriefingsDirect_IONA_Camel.mp3 Transcript: http://briefingsdirect.blogspot.com/2007/08/apache-camel-addresses-need-for.html
  15. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    Hi Cam,
    I said mule and ServiceMix are compatitors.


    Not really. Mule and Camel (part of Apache ActiveMQ) are competitors.

    Not true.
    Well, quite a few of our customers have switched from Mule to Camel; so clearly they compete in quite a large number of areas. Also since ServiceMix is fully JBI compliant, implements a JBI container and comes with a variety of JBI tooling which Mule does not - you could argue there's way more competition between Camel and Mule than Mule and ServiceMix; as both Camel and Mule can be deployed inside ServiceMix.
    Camel is something put together fairly recently as a routing engine, and does not cover most of the ESB features that Mule offers.
    Does not cover most of the ESB features Mule offers? Like what? Most folks who've migrated from Mule to Camel haven't noticed terribly many missing features so far. The most common ESB features I hear from customers is integration, transformation, smart routing and implementing the Enterprise Integration Patterns; all of which Camel does great. Plus it must be said Camel offers a number of innovative features which Mule doesn't AFAIK. * a great domain specific language which makes implementing Enterprise Integration Patterns extremely easy and avoids lots of verbose XML * powerful integration with Apache ActiveMQ to implement Enterprise Integration Patterns in the JMS client or message broker * awesome JBI integration by using the ServiceMix Camel Service Unit to easily integrate EIP inside JBI * a cool Business Activity Monitoring framework * easy distributed and synchronous testing using Camel's Mock Endpoints - like jMock only for endpoints not objects.
    Strangely, it replicates much of the ServiceMix binding components and routing patterns. Not really sure why they needed to rewrite their routing and bindings all over again (in a non-JBI way),
    Purely to make them easier to embed in more places than just being inside an ESB. e.g. for integration into a JMS client, a message broker or web services stack. Think of Camel transports as a migration of the ServiceMix lightweight components.
    but you can guess where the inspiration for the name "Camel" came from :).
    Not really
    Basically, it doesn't offer anything over and above what they already had in SM.
    Not true - see above.

    The Camel project was purportedly started by Active Strachan because the Mule license wasn't open enough to be used (plus some rumor about a threatened law-suit by MuleSource, etc.) There's a lot of VC money being invested in these open source companies, and so the stakes are pretty high; some really strange things tend to go on behind the scenes.


    It sounds like you've heard one dramatized side of the story. The Mule license (which has been recently been OSI approved as the CPAL license) wouldn't have been an issue for them.
    Iona struggled for months to try and get permission from MuleSource to redistribute Mule jars in their old Celtix open source distribution but due to MuleSource & the license restrictions were not able to. Are you now saying that any company can freely redistribute Mule jars? If so thats great news, we can ship Mule integration in FUSE :) Unfortunately CPAL is not on the Apache list of approved licenses, so still no Apache project can use Mule. James Iona Open Source the Enterprise Way
  16. Re: can you read ?[ Go to top ]

    Well, quite a few of our customers have switched from Mule to Camel; so clearly they compete in quite a large number of areas. Also since ServiceMix is fully JBI compliant, implements a JBI container and comes with a variety of JBI tooling which Mule does not - you could argue there's way more competition between Camel and Mule than Mule and ServiceMix; as both Camel and Mule can be deployed inside ServiceMix.
    Lots of ServiceMix users have indeed switched to Mule. However, looking the Camel user list theres not much user activity, just a lot of Jira and SVN spam.
    Not really
    Some of those are pretty good :)
    Iona struggled for months to try and get permission from MuleSource to redistribute Mule jars in their old Celtix open source distribution but due to MuleSource & the license restrictions were not able to.
    We were not involved in that struggle. Iona wanted to embed Mule in their Celtix Enterprise product that they were selling (to compete with Mule!), but didn't what to make any acknowledgment that they were using Mule or have a commercial agreement with us. They just didn't want to have a fair relationship with us.
    Are you now saying that any company can freely redistribute Mule jars? If so thats great news, we can ship Mule integration in FUSE :)
    Of course they can, they would just need to abide by the CPAL license.
    Unfortunately CPAL is not on the Apache list of approved licenses, so still no Apache project can use Mule.
    It wouldn't be yet since the CPAL license was only officially announced with OSI approval last week. Cheers, Ross
  17. Re: from serviceMix to Mule[ Go to top ]

    in my book it is called treason
    Grow up. We have people from JBoss, BEA, Oracle, etc. Just business.
  18. Re: is there a fork?[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations Dan. We use XFire for our Atlassian Crowd web services and have had nothing but good luck. The API is fast and easy to use.
  19. Congrats![ Go to top ]

    This is a good move for both sides. Mule and XFire / CXF are both best-of-breed frameworks, so having them work more closely together will be a big boon for the community.
  20. Re: Congrats![ Go to top ]

    This is a good move for both sides. Mule and XFire / CXF are both best-of-breed frameworks, so having them work more closely together will be a big boon for the community.
    I was looking at the CXF site and it seemed like it's just a repackaging of the same old crap in the Java Web-Services pack. I really don't get why everyone thinks generating WSDLs from Java and vice-versa is a good idea. Is there something more to CXF?
  21. "While at MuleSource I'll be helping expand Mule's web services support," Dan said. "One aspect of this will be adding a CXF transport. CXF for those don't know, is an open source framework for building web services. So in the near future we should see some expanded WS capabilities - including improved support for building services JAX-WS and specifications such as WS-Addressing, WS-ReliableMessaging, and WS-Policy."
    I think it can't be a bad idea, to extend and enhance the integration of good Open Source Solutions how e.g. Apache CXF. One advantage of Open Source and above all of the Apache Software Foundation is: Share Resources, Extensions and Enhancements in different Solutions without License-Conflicts. Perhaps we can hope, to see the result of this new work also in other Open Source Solutions. Roland SOA Competence Network
  22. I am sure the community will look forward to WS-Reliability and security changes. Not related to this thread - but is there an initiative to integrate Mule with Prova (a Prolog plus Java initiative) or has that stopped entirely. I was following closely some exchanges on this earlier.