MyEclipse Blue Edition: Low-Cost Tool Alternative for WebSphere

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News: MyEclipse Blue Edition: Low-Cost Tool Alternative for WebSphere

  1. Genuitec announced today the release of a new product, MyEclipse Blue Edition, which is targeted at IBM Rational Application Developer (RAD) and WebSphere development.

    With support ending for WebSphere Application Developer (WSAD), all WebSphere users will be required to upgrade their toolsuites to IBM RAD in order to support the latest features in the WebSphere 6.1 server – a transition with high cost in both time and hard currency. Since many of these IBM shops will necessarily be changing their tool environments, Genuitec has stepped in to offer a choice to consumers.

    MyEclipse 6.1 Blue Edition offers RAD users a complimentary toolsuite for a tiny fraction of the cost. The new Blue Edition will cost only $149 per year, and is fully supported. And don't worry about nullifying your existing support contracts. Since MyEclipse Blue Edition uses IBM's own Web Services, you're fully compliant.

    MyEclipse 6.1 Blue Edition is in Milestone stage 1, and as such is free to download and use until April 1st.

    Do you think MyEclipse Blue Edition will find a place in your organization? How might this type of choice change how you look at IBM tooling?

    Threaded Messages (18)

  2. IBM is too slow[ Go to top ]

    My biggest issue to date with IBM WSAD or RAD is that they are too slow to release their updates based on the latest Eclipse updates. Eclipse 3.3 has been out for quite some time now and I'm still stuck with 3.2 in my version of IBM's tool. This becomes quite frustrating when trying to drop in 3rd party plug-ins. Many do not support Eclipse 3.2 anymore.
  3. Re: IBM is too slow[ Go to top ]

    My biggest issue to date with IBM WSAD or RAD is that they are too slow to release their updates based on the latest Eclipse updates. Eclipse 3.3 has been out for quite some time now and I'm still stuck with 3.2 in my version of IBM's tool. This becomes quite frustrating when trying to drop in 3rd party plug-ins. Many do not support Eclipse 3.2 anymore.

    Jim -
    It's difficult for a large company like IBM to be "fast and nimble," as you say. The PR cycle for one of their releases can be longer than an entire MyEclipse product release cycle. This is one of the reasons we released MyEclipse Blue Edition - to provide customers the power of choice with the latest commercial and open source features, but with the muscle to effectively communicate with the server infrastructure they already have. At the price point of MyEclipse Blue Edition ($149/year), we are seeing that many companies will utilize RAD and MyEclipse Blue Edition side-by-side in an effort to utilize advantages of each.

    I would be interested to get your thoughts on MyEclipse Blue Edition. It's free to use until April 1st, so you can give it a whirl with no risk.

    Best,
    Jens
    MyEclipse
  4. RAD responsiveness[ Go to top ]

    Jim, the next release of RAD (7.5) has been available as an open, public beta since late last year; that code runs on eclipse 3.3. I encourage you to try the beta out - I'm really pleased with the progress that we're making, and all the feedback to date has been very positive. It is an IBM policy not to comment on release dates. What I can tell you is that I am personally committed to ensuring that we deliver new releases of RAD as close to new releases of WAS as possible; these two products go hand in hand, and I'm working to make sure they are functionally and chronologically aligned. Tim Francis, WebSphere Tools & RAD Chief Architect
  5. Could you make the download a little easier[ Go to top ]

    1. very hard to find the download place. 2. for those who don't want to use the download manager,(for me I just don't want to install something that I don't need) download itself is a pain. After some struggling, I gave up. (something so hard to download/install, is it worthy trying?)
  6. Thanks for the comments; let me see what I can do. Tim Francis
  7. RAD[ Go to top ]

    I'd like to welcome MyEclipse to the party, but some of the statements in the original post may mislead people, so I wanted to clarify some of the facts. I've just posted a complete response on the WebSphere Community Blog. Tim Francis, WebSphere Tools & RAD Chief Architect
  8. Re: RAD[ Go to top ]

    Hi Tim, Thanks for welcoming us to your RAD party. We are excited to be here and promise to do our best to provide WebSphere developers a great new dance partner to choose from. I found your blog creative and disingenuous but more on that in a follow up entry. Michael's complaint about the RAD install experience epitomizes a general frustration we have heard from your customers over the past couple of years. Thus we embarked on developing the MyEclipse Blue Edition after many corporate requests to provide their WebSphere developers the same rich, innovative and uncomplicated MyEclipse developer tools. Since you are already aggressively micro-analyzing MyEclipse Blue features I'm sure you are familiar with the simple convenient process for downloading and installing the milestone-1 release of MyEclipse Blue Edition. If you want to help Michael, just copy our process; it's a simple no-brainer. Blue typically installs in less than 5 mins. I look forward to a long and healthy competition. I'm sure WebSphere developers will benefit greatly from the improvements coming their way. Wayne Parrott VP, Product Development Genuitec, LLC
  9. Re: RAD[ Go to top ]

    Tim;

    Thank you for your welcome to the party.

    As you can undoubtedly appreciate, we choose our words very carefully when referencing companies that have more employees in their public relations department than all the employees in our organization. We are thereby careful to assure our public comments are neither misinformed nor misleading. Our statements are simply the reflection of several calls with our combined customers that are looking to upgrade to Websphere 6.1 and are having to make a number of design and runtime decisions, while being presented a multi-million dollar quote to move from WSAD to RAD. Taking out all the superlatives out of these conversation, they all boil down to the following sentiment:

    "I'm tired of being told what to do, being locked into a single vendor solution and having to pay through the nose for it."

    We hear from our mutual customers that they are not happy with the fact that they have previously paid several millions for WSAD (a few years ago). However, since WSAD end-of-life was effective as of September 2006 (http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/woolf?entry=wsad_5_1_support_ends), these companies are looking to implement a number of technologies (i.e. SOA, Ajax, ...) and web services standards (i.e. WS-N, WS-I BSP, WS-BA, ...) that are only offered through Websphere 6.1 and Rational 7.x To do so, they have to upgrade their application infrastructure to WebSphere 6.1 and development tools to Rational 7.x , all at a significant premium.

    However, your blog suggests that these customers no longer have to pay for RAD 7 if they were upgrading from WSAD or an earlier version of RAD. If indeed this constitutes a policy reversal on the part of IBM that has not been made public until now, we know for certain that such a decision will make several of our combined customers incredibly happy - especially considering the tough economic times. We would like to be the first to pass on this information to them.

    Second, I encourage you to re-read our press release and publicity materials regarding the availability of MyEclipse Blue. We never presented the Blue edition as a replacement for RAD. Rather, our strategy and messaging for MyEclipse Blue concentrates on providing developers the broadest developer technology tool coverage - including many technologies not available from RAD (See our feature list). In addition, we release MyEclipse at 10X - 15x the historical rate for WSAD or RAD. So, since MyEclipse is priced at 30x cheaper than RAD, our combined customers can easily divide their staff between MyEclipse and RAD based on design and run-time concerns and save a great deal of money at the same time.

    No matter what, WebSphere customers are served to the fullest with the most appropriate tools for the job at hand, whether best served by RAD or MyEclipse Blue Edition. I don't see how any of this information is bad news to our mutual customer base.

    Jens
    MyEclipse
  10. Re: RAD[ Go to top ]

    Hi Tim, no offense, but for many, based on past experience, its going to take a lot to for some to feel really excited about RAD. For bean counters, the price point historically has been too high. For developers, the dev/debug cycle has been less than ideal. For full disclosure, I haven't tried any of the 7.x releases. However, previous releases have been horrendous. Meaning, we've had to make sure that our developers have been loaded for bear on memory and that they have a good defrag program always running (like diskeeper). Personally, I think more competition is great. Also, just as I have said previously, I would welcome any developer who is using Websphere and RAD to tell everyone what a great experience it has been, because I would be hard pressed to believe it.
  11. Re: RAD[ Go to top ]

    I should have read your post. Unless our own internal centralized sourcing is pulling one on us in pricing, there really is a big cost differential, because support costs on an expensive license is still going to be 10X the cost of MyEclipse blue (again, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not). Something I'd like all vendors to do is to actually sit side by side with their customers to get the real day to day, hour by hour experience of using their tooling. It's much different than deploying a sample application. It may even be the end user's lack of knowledge in the product to get more efficient. In any case, without actually having to dev/synch/test/commit/deploy all the time, there's no real way of knowing what it's like for all of the developers who have been mandated to use the product. I say mandate, because in general, people will use what's most productive for them, and most of the time, it is not this.
  12. RAD experiences[ Go to top ]

    Our firm has been deploying to WebSphere for years now. I have gone through VAJ 3.0, 4.0, WSAD 4.0, 5.0, 5.1 and we are now using RAD 7 (we skipped 6 because it was obsolete by the time we were ready to migrate from WSAD 5.1). I wish we had RSA here because it would standardise our UML tooling and we wouldn't have to switch to some other tool for that. Overall we don't have any problems with RAD. We mainly do J2EE development (not much EJB) and web services development and I value the good integration with IBM's other products such as WAS, WebSphere MQ and their z/OS J2C connectors as we also do quite a bit of integration work. There are a couple of minor things which could do with improvement in my opinion:
    • In RAD, the WAS 6 test environment (WTE) configurations seem to be shared among workspaces. If we start a WTE server in one workspace, we see apps which have previously been deployed to a WTE server in another workspace.
    • You can't choose which project a WTE 6 configuration should be saved to in the workspace (for purposes of checking into CVS etc.) They all end up in a "Servers" project. In WSAD server configs were in the workspace from the start.
    • WTE 6 JVM properties or classpath entries can only be set via the admin console when the server is running. With WTE 5 these could be set via the server config editor without starting the server.
    • It's difficult to change the type of a project after it's been created. E.g. to change a resource (simple) project to a Java project requires hacking the .project file and mucking about with builders and facets. Ditto static web project to dynamic web project. A conversion wizard would be nice.
    • It is a bit slower than standard Eclipse but has more features to load I suppose.
    Actually, the biggest gripe I have is more with the new Installation Manager (IM) rather than RAD itself. I have had several problems trying do an online RAD upgrade via the IM or even updating IM itself (a prerequisite of some RAD updates), which is where the problem usually lies. Some update attempts caused errors preventing IM from starting afterwards. Instead, we now do the offline upgrade from a local disk. An IBM technote exists explaining how to reinstall IM without loosing the record of currently installed products. VAJ and WSAD never needed such a tool :) On another note, Jim McLean wrote:
    My biggest issue to date with IBM WSAD or RAD is that they are too slow to release their updates based on the latest Eclipse updates. Eclipse 3.3 has been out for quite some time now and I'm still stuck with 3.2 in my version of IBM's tool. This becomes quite frustrating when trying to drop in 3rd party plug-ins. Many do not support Eclipse 3.2 anymore.
    In my opinion this is more a lack of consideration for users on the part of plugin developers than the fault of IDE developers. The point of the Eclipse framework was that it is extensible. If the IDE can't do something you need, get or write a plugin. I don't think the original idea was that in order to use a plugin you should have to upgrade your IDE. I'm sure many plugins could still work in Eclipse 2 still if they didn't rely on the latest superficial graphical widget only available in the newest release. Of course you have to move with the times but that needn't always mean at the expense of losing backward compatibility. This is limiting for people/firms who can't upgrade their IDEs quickly. For example we wanted to use the Eclipse plugin for JDepend but had to wait until we had RAD (Eclipse 3) before we could use it. As far as the functionality is concerned there was nothing (at least nothing visible) in it that couldn't be done in Eclipse 2. Just my two cents' worth. Steve
  13. Re: RAD experiences[ Go to top ]

    Steve, Why did you choose RAD instead of eclipse+wtp?
  14. Re: RAD experiences[ Go to top ]

    Time,
    Steve, Why did you choose RAD instead of eclipse+wtp?
    Basically because we had already paid for it! We started off with VAJ licenses which had an upgrade path to WSAD and later to RAD. I'm not aware that the upgrade to IBM's Eclipse-based solutions cost anything extra, if they had I'm sure we would have had more discussion about it. However, it was a long time ago now and maybe I've just forgotten. When we first upgraded to WSAD (Eclipse 1) most of these open source solutions didn't exist. We briefly upgraded our Rational Rose to (the now defunct) Rational XDE Developer and I know that did cost a lot extra despite being told at a conference that the upgrade would be free for Rose users. XDE was OK but a bit limited and we cancelled the license and stopped using it (in favour of something free). I believe RSA is basically RAD and XDE merged together but better. I may look for a trial version and try out the UML support. Does RSA support round-tripping? Does WTP already have support for creation/editing of WebSphere's deployment descriptor extension files? What about the WebSphere web services runtime? I couldn't find any mention of WebSphere support on the WTP site, only that they provide extension points to add your own app server support... IBM Support is also in the license fee too and that has helped us a few times. For the J2EE/WS development RAD is good when deploying to WAS but I must admit there is a fair amount of stuff which we don't really use such as the Data perspective (we use other tools out of habbit more than anything), Portal support, visual designer and Crystal Reports (although we already have Crystal so maybe we could save on Crystal licenses now it's in RAD, I'll have to check that). Steve
  15. Re: RAD experiences[ Go to top ]

    Tim, Steve, all,

    If you are really interested in what MyEclipse Blue Edition looks like in action, I would like to invite you to a free Webinar we are broadcasting tomorrow (Thursday the 21st).

    Best of all: attendees will be offered a free one-year license of MyEclipse Blue Edition for attending and filling out a short follow-up survey.

    We hope to see you there!

    Best,
    Jens
    MyEclipse
  16. My Rational Experience[ Go to top ]

    I started on WSAD 4.x years ago, and have been through WSAD 5.0, 5.1 and 6.0. I'm now using RSA 6.0 (RAD + UML modelling, etc.). Its big, and sometimes slow, but it canbe impressive. The UML modelling is top-notch. The integrated WebSphere support is pretty good. However, I use eclipse 3.3 at home for non-J2EE work (what little I do, I use WTP for). It seems to do 99% of what I need anyways. I'm actually torn between wanting the cleaner, better features in eclipse 3.3 and the WebSphere-specific support and modellign in RSA. And, when I tried to upgrade to RSA 7.0, many of my sequence diagrams were corrupted. The last check I did, there was no fix available. I fear having to do another multi-GB download just to attempt the converstion again.
  17. Re: My Rational Experience[ Go to top ]

    RSA's uml plugins: the best. Undocumented websphere app server specific config files: the worst. RSA (or any Rational derivatives in j2ee space) as a full product set/ development suite: pain in the bum.
  18. I would like to know if it support Portlet development (JSR 168 and IBM Portlets). If it does then it would be a very good substitute for RAD.
  19. Raj;

    MyEclipse Blue Edition does not support JSR 168 and IBM portlets at this time, though it is definitely on the radar. I would anticipate you will see this feature within the next few release cycyles (every 8 weeks or so).

    If you would like to give MyEclipse Blue Edition a try, I would invite you to our MyEclipse Blue Edition Webinar (today, Thursday, at 1pm CST). Attendees who fill out the brief follow-up survey get a free license, so you can have a free year to play with it and make the best tooling decisions as Blue Edition evolves to offer even more robust tools in a fast, easy and efficient manner (especially important when we all move into the Eclipse 3.4 platform later this year).

    Best,
    Jens
    MyEclipse