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News: Calling All BEA Developers

  1. Calling All BEA Developers (46 messages)

    TheServerSide.com and our publisher TechTarget has put together a short survey for BEA users, asking their opinion about the Oracle acquisition, and we’re seeking the widest possible audience. We’ll be closing the poll at noon on Friday and publishing the results the following Monday. Here’s the link to the survey: http://s-cokpe-53224.sgizmo.com

    Threaded Messages (46)

  2. Like many, I'm still waiting for guidance on what affect the acquisition will have on technologies like Oracle's ADF, the development framework for Fusion. Oracle's hosting an online event very soon to discuss this. Hopefully we'll know more then...
  3. We Technologists believe in innovation. But Businessman like Larry Ellison looks at Number of new Customers added to his basket. Is Oracle going 2 create a big dustbin and maintain.I think so. I am not pretty much sure whether anybody is gonna 2 change fusion completely??
  4. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    I am an very dissatisfied OC4J user. I was hoping that oracle would kill OC4J now that they have acquired Weblogic. I was actually looking forward to converting my OC4J licenses to Weblogic license. From the questionnaire it seems as if Oracle is trying to kill Weblogic. I thinks that will be a very bad move. There are so many mission critical applications running on Weblogic I am not sure if the user base will tolerate any moves to kill Weblogic. Hopefully users feedback for sites like this will stop oracle from killing Weblogic.
  5. Oracle and Weblogic[ Go to top ]

    I am an very dissatisfied OC4J user. I was hoping that oracle would kill OC4J now that they have acquired Weblogic. I was actually looking forward to converting my OC4J licenses to Weblogic license.

    From the questionnaire it seems as if Oracle is trying to kill Weblogic. I thinks that will be a very bad move. There are so many mission critical applications running on Weblogic I am not sure if the user base will tolerate any moves to kill Weblogic.

    Hopefully users feedback for sites like this will stop oracle from killing Weblogic.
    I don't think Oracle would kill Weblogic. If anything they were smart they would convert all their Oracle app server users to Weblogic. Makes more sense. I do wonder what is the most widely used App Server in the world. Websphere, Weblogic, Jboss, etc....? I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!
  6. Re: Oracle and Weblogic[ Go to top ]

    I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!
    I'm not sure what's funny about that. I see some evidence that it's working. Then Oracle announced it was hiking up the price for BEA products, playing right into IBM's hands. I see something in the news about the possibility (maybe it's for sure) that Oracle is discontinuing AquaLogic. Honestly, I don't really know or care what AquaLogic is but I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Oracle might kill some BEA product lines. I've seen companies buy superior products and then bury them before. Corporations are often dysfunctional and individuals within the corporation often make decisions based on things that have little to do with choosing the best option for the company as a whole.
  7. Re: Oracle and Weblogic[ Go to top ]

    Here is the article that gives some idea on Oracle middleware future direction http://searchitchannel.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid96_gci1317340,00.html
  8. Re: Oracle and Weblogic[ Go to top ]

    AquaLogic is an (integration type) ESB built on WebLogic. (Another ESB type is the messaging ESBs which are based on messaging engines like SonicESB) It's tons better than the Fusion-based ESB Oracle has. Nice tools, etc. It's competitor in the commercial world is WebSphereESB - which doesn't come very close in capability, ease of development or administration. IMHO, all the BEA middleware is better than its Oracle or IBM competitors, so Oracle's acquisition could be very sad news. On the other hand, I think the whole J2EE or Java EE thing was run its course. It may linger as a brand name, but we're moving to a model where we plug the (OSGi) components we need into the JVM configuration and go. I see most of what J2EE does for the large enterprise being pushed down to the network, the system platform and the ESB. Global transaction management seems all that is left for it to do, assuming you need that. Continuing to saddle developers with infrastructure concerns makes less sense every day.
  9. Re: Oracle and Weblogic[ Go to top ]

    I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!


    I'm not sure what's funny about that. I see some evidence that it's working.
    And its not only working for IBM... With the Black Tie project , this strategy is going to be even more effective. -- Bill Burke JBoss, a division of Red Hat http://bill.burkecentral.com
  10. Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!


    I'm not sure what's funny about that. I see some evidence that it's working. Then Oracle announced it was hiking up the price for BEA products, playing right into IBM's hands.
    What was funny is the results of that attempt. If you were to know the results you would have laughed too. Now someone later posted about Black Tie Project by Jboss and this looks very interesting. I've been reading some of the hype and blogs about it, very interesting and I am going to be keeping an eye on the game.
  11. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!


    I'm not sure what's funny about that. I see some evidence that it's working. Then Oracle announced it was hiking up the price for BEA products, playing right into IBM's hands.


    What was funny is the results of that attempt. If you were to know the results you would have laughed too.
    Well, where I work, the result of the price hike is that BEA is being dropped. I'm still not sure what is funny about that.
  12. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    I do know that IBM in its infinite wisdom went out with a marketing plan to try and use the Oracle BEA merger to their advantage to get users to come over to Websphere. LOL!


    I'm not sure what's funny about that. I see some evidence that it's working. Then Oracle announced it was hiking up the price for BEA products, playing right into IBM's hands.


    What was funny is the results of that attempt. If you were to know the results you would have laughed too.


    Well, where I work, the result of the price hike is that BEA is being dropped. I'm still not sure what is funny about that.
    So are you dropping Weblogic for Websphere?
  13. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    So are you dropping Weblogic for Websphere?
    Yes, I think that's the plan. Personally I don't think either provide much value to our organization but since I'm only equipped with logic, reason, and years of experience and I'm not a consultant or a salesperson that doesn't matter much. It's been a while since I was involved in this stuff but back in the day, BEA had a really terrible pricing model. It was fine if all you wanted was a single server but as soon you wanted to cluster the price ballooned way past Websphere. If that didn't change, increasing the per seat license just makes it harder to justify WebLogic. I definitely prefer it to WebSphere, though and I used to use the Dev3Dev documentation to figure out how to use JBoss.
  14. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    So are you dropping Weblogic for Websphere?


    Yes, I think that's the plan. Personally I don't think either provide much value to our organization but since I'm only equipped with logic, reason, and years of experience and I'm not a consultant or a salesperson that doesn't matter much.

    It's been a while since I was involved in this stuff but back in the day, BEA had a really terrible pricing model. It was fine if all you wanted was a single server but as soon you wanted to cluster the price ballooned way past Websphere. If that didn't change, increasing the per seat license just makes it harder to justify WebLogic. I definitely prefer it to WebSphere, though and I used to use the Dev3Dev documentation to figure out how to use JBoss.
    Well I can see why are you aren't laughing James. Honestly if I was in your shoes I wouldn't be laughing either. You seem like a smart guy and it probably doesn't matter what App Server you use because you will probably always figure out a way to make it work for you. Most of the time the App Server companies end up using have little to do with which is the best one but rather what kind of relationship the company shot callers have with sales reps.
  15. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    .. back in the day, BEA had a really terrible pricing model. It was fine if all you wanted was a single server but as soon you wanted to cluster the price ballooned way past Websphere. If that didn't change, increasing the per seat license just makes it harder to justify WebLogic. I definitely prefer it to WebSphere, though and I used to use the Dev3Dev documentation to figure out how to use JBoss.
    Start by getting a quote from IBM, and then show it to your Oracle sales rep .. my guess is you'll find a way to keep WebLogic ;-) I could write a (boring) book about software pricing, but the summary is this: Small vendors and small purchasers always seem to get hurt the most, because big businesses assume that they will get an obscene discount, and big vendors know how to price and bundle their products accordingly. Personally, I'd love to find more ways for Oracle to be more accessible to small businesses. While we had lots of "Fortune 100" customers at Tangosol, many of our customers were small businesses, and they played a major role in our success as a startup. I always appreciated the ingenuity, creativeness and raw hunger of small companies, and it's a shame that it's so difficult for large software companies to find equally creative ways to cost-effectively serve those customers. For the past few years, Oracle has been the second largest middleware vendor in the industry, close behind IBM. With the acquisition of companies such as BEA, Oracle now has an unrivaled portfolio of middleware software, and is the largest middleware vendor. It would be a travesty if we didn't successfully find ways to make this portfolio easily accessible to small companies as well as large. At any rate, it is my hope that the developer-focused teams, marketing, sales and other BEA assets (e.g. dev2dev) will begin to make that difference here at Oracle. We've got a lot of truly dedicated folks who are working hard to make this successful. It may take some time, and it may occasionally appear messy, but if we continue to follow through on the promise of what we now have to work with, the results will be equally extraordinary. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java and .NET
  16. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    Start by getting a quote from IBM, and then show it to your Oracle sales rep .. my guess is you'll find a way to keep WebLogic ;-)
    Like I was saying before, I don't really care much. We have both WebSphere and WebLogic in-house now (don't ask) and paring one off is a step in the right direction. Getting rid of both would be even better. We aren't using any features of these platforms that justify the cost.
  17. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    While we had lots of "Fortune 100" customers at Tangosol, many of our customers were small businesses, and they played a major role in our success as a startup. I always appreciated the ingenuity, creativeness and raw hunger of small companies, and it's a shame that it's so difficult for large software companies to find equally creative ways to cost-effectively serve those customers.
    Peace,
    Cameron Purdy
    I totally agree the small companies however do have the advantage of agility and the ingenuity can be put to good use to avoid needing these monster products in the first place. -John- Incept5
  18. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    I totally agree the small companies however do have the advantage of agility and the ingenuity can be put to good use to avoid needing these monster products in the first place.
    Hmm .. I think that you are over-generalizing. Oracle Coherence 3.4 (currently in pre-release), which is the Oracle product that I work on, is a single .JAR file that runs on any JVM (JDK 1.4 or later) and has no third party library dependencies (internally or externally). I do agree about small companies agility and ingenuity though. Sometime I'll tell you the story of our six month process to get a $2000 build server ;-) Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  19. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    I totally agree the small companies however do have the advantage of agility and the ingenuity can be put to good use to avoid needing these monster products in the first place.


    Hmm .. I think that you are over-generalizing. Oracle Coherence 3.4 (currently in pre-release), which is the Oracle product that I work on, is a single .JAR file that runs on any JVM (JDK 1.4 or later) and has no third party library dependencies (internally or externally).
    Come on Cameron, you know better than anyone that Oracle didn't develop Coherence. Sure it's an Oracle product now but it didn't come from classes12.zip-Oracle.
  20. Re: Why I am laughing! LOL![ Go to top ]

    Come on Cameron, you know better than anyone that Oracle didn't develop Coherence. Sure it's an Oracle product now but it didn't come from classes12.zip-Oracle.
    Point taken .. but Oracle didn't "develop" OC4J, WebLogic, jRockit, Collaxa, Hyperion, Siebel, PeopleSoft, JD Edwards or Stellant either ;-) At any rate, I was poking subtle fun at John (since he keeps goading me on ;-), because in the past he has used one of the products that attempts to compete with Oracle Coherence, and while that particular competitor's product tries to position itself as a "light-weight" solution, it unfortunately suffers from truly Webspheresque bloat. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  21. It's been a while since I was involved in this stuff but back in the day, BEA had a really terrible pricing model. It was fine if all you wanted was a single server but as soon you wanted to cluster the price ballooned way past Websphere. If that didn't change, increasing the per seat license just makes it harder to justify WebLogic.
    You know - Oracle has their own rules. They might have different list price, on the other hand, from my experience, Oracle can give You discount, almost by definition. BEA was rather unlikly to do so, except their key customers, and even then the discounts weren't dramatical ;). At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if You reach Your salespersons at Oracle and inform them You wanna switch ot Websphere - They - for sure - could give You (quite huge) discount (80% isn't unlikly). My theory is: they could have bigger list prices, because they can give bigger discounts. Yes I know it's stupid - but it's how Oracle works (not stupidiy, discounts:)... They already have (a lot) customers who use BEA also. And they for sure have signed contracts for disscounts for them. Now it would apparently turned out that the same customer could buy BEA server 50%-80% cheaper with Oracle discount... I'm almost sure that - in the end - at least, when it comes to pricing, Bea acquisition will be good-think(tm);). Artur
  22. From the questionnaire it seems as if Oracle is trying to kill Weblogic.
    Please note that it is a TechTarget survey, as mentioned above:
    .. TechTarget has put together a short survey for BEA users ..
    It is not an Oracle survey, and so it does not in any way reflect any specific Oracle plans. Working at Oracle, I can tell you that we have been very hard at work to make sure that the BEA acquisition is a huge success for our business and ultimately for our customers, and to retain the talented employees that made BEA so successful. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  23. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    Cam, We just can't believe anything you say any more, it's always the party line, how about signing in as someone else on a different IP, you know like the JBoss people used to do and tell us what you really think :-). I suggest "Noremac from Elcaro" -John- Incept5
  24. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    If I am a OC4J customer how do I switch to Weblogic. Can any of the Oracle folks following this thread advice.
  25. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    We just can't believe anything you say any more, it's always the party line ..
    Hey, I thought that I was the party ;-)
    .. how about signing in as someone else on a different IP, you know like the JBoss people used to do and tell us what you really think :-)
    Yeah. I'll respond to that as soon as I can get my wife or dad to write something intelligible for me. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  26. It seems to me that Oracle has no intents to kill WebLogic, just the opposite. And it makes sense as WebLogic has so large user base and really a strong brand. Why is it clear? Just go to http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/pricelists.html and open "US Oracle Technology Commercial Price List". It has been updated in June and contains BEA products already. For example, if you look at "SOA Suite for Oracle Middleware", you can see it as an option to "WebLogic Suite" and not for Oracle Application Server. With the price list, it isn't that hard to guess which products are being killed. Regards, Jarno
  27. Hi, I am petty scared because at the moment it is not possible to download jRockit 5 or 6 from any site of BEA. I phoned several times to the customer support and they told me Oracle and BEA were arguing about the licencing. But they think it will still be available for free. But why don't they offer a download link (without customer support because it's free to use) ? Georges Goebel
  28. Uh, why is the publisher of this website interested (and posting) on this? I don't recall any similar requests/postings for other Oracle acquisitions?
  29. You can download them here. 32 bits http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/142_16/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.4.2_16-linux-ia32.bin http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/50/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.5.0_14-linux-ia32.bin http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/60/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.6.0_03-linux-ia32.bin 64 bits http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/142_16/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.4.2_16-linux-x64.bin http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/50/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.5.0_14-linux-x64.bin http://download2.bea.com/pub/jrockit/60/jrockit-R27.5.0-jdk1.6.0_03-linux-x64.bin I don't know the URL's for Windows though. But they must be easy to guess :) F.
  30. Uh, why is the publisher of this website interested (and posting) on this? I don't recall any similar requests/postings for other Oracle acquisitions?
    As the person who put together the survey, I can tell you why we're interested. This is a development acquisition, not a packaged app acquisition, which means that it falls squarely within our area of editorial focus. It is also the biggest (in terms of total dollars and in terms of number of user affected) development software acquisition in years. Yet, more important that that, we actually do care what users think. That may sound hokey, but it's true. How well Oracle handles this acquisition is a pressing issue for a massive number of users and we want to take the pulse of those users heading into Oracle's July 1 announcement.
  31. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    Is it just me or does TSS feel a lot like a blog aggregator these days? If TT wants to know what its readers want to know about subject, why don't they just email them. They've shown they're not afraid to send a billion emails out (often up to 4 copies of the same email). Call me rigid/whatever, but this doesn't really seem like front page material. It's just market research polling not news/articles I'd be interested in. Self-centered, true, but I read here to learn not provide marketing research better gathered by other means in more appropriate forums.
  32. Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    I'm not happy with the deal. I have been a loyal WebLogic Developer/Architect/Admin for more than 8 years now. I can't see this going anywhere good for the BEA products and customers. Already Oracle is halting the licensing of JRockit with out the WebLogic server license. They are getting rid of the WebLogic express licensing. One of the biggest reseller of WebLogic licenses is SAP. What is going to happen when those licenses are going to be renewed? ALSB, ALBPM and ALUI are 3 superior products to anything that Oracle has in house now. What is going to happen with them? Fusion Middleware was nothing but a collection of applications that had no common thread or usability, just to say that they do SOA. Oracle Tech Net just sucks. BEA's site was easy to use, easy to find stuff and very search-able. I loved dev2Dev. Now your searches for solutions will be weighted down with what ever flavor of the month Oracle is pushing that has nothing to do with your search. I made a specific point this year when I went to Java One to start looking at open source alternatives to WLS such as Glassfish. I think my days are numbered as a serious WebLogic expert because I just can't stand dealing with Oracle. Microsoft might as well have bought BEA. Oracle should just stick with the Database and be done with it. Because everything else they have touch has turned to brown waste product.
  33. Re: Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    I'm not happy with the deal.

    I have been a loyal WebLogic Developer/Architect/Admin for more than 8 years now.

    I can't see this going anywhere good for the BEA products and customers.

    Already Oracle is halting the licensing of JRockit with out the WebLogic server license.

    They are getting rid of the WebLogic express licensing. [..]
    I don't believe that anything has been announced at this point. The July 1 web-cast should answer a number of your questions, and will hopefully address several of your concerns.
    Oracle Tech Net just sucks. BEA's site was easy to use, easy to find stuff and very search-able. I loved dev2Dev.
    Trust me, I'm happy to pass on your comments. You can reach me directly at cameron.purdy at oracle.com. Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  34. Re: Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    To re-iterate Cameron's note, please tune into the July 1 broadcast where much more will be made clear. As Cameron implies/suggests the WebLogic Server team is very much intact and fully functioning/executing within Oracle and you can see on other threads on TSS that the core WLS PM team continue to actively respond and take feedback. As you can probably expect there will be some growing pains so bear with us while we work through it but the story I think will be remarkably clear and consistent when you hear it. Licensing issues are mostly done now and some of this is being reported on but really until broadcast next week it is hard to speak publicly about it as final tweaks are still being done. JRockit *very* much continues to be strategic and its download issues are unrelated to any negative intent Oracle has with the product. Once the story has been explained consistently, the overall team will be keen to take feedback and adjust where things could be improved both through the OTN channel, forums like this as well as user groups and various programs we have planned around helping people understand our roadmap. So you are aware, the overall team across all impacted product lines are working very hard to get the BEA product set (including JRockit) on OTN - it is a lot to coordinate but the goal is "shortly" as I am told. Love it or hate it OTN is Oracle's technical developer portal and is very responsive to feedback and planning to uptake many features from dev2dev. OTN is working very hard on bringing the dev2dev *and* arch2arch community over to OTN as well - see this faq and blog for some details on this: http://www.oracle.com/technology/community/welcome-bea/index.html and http://blogs.oracle.com/otn/2008/06/10#a1333 Mike Lehmann mike dot lehmann at oracle dot com Director PM, Java Platform Group (including WLS and iAS/OC4J)
  35. Re: Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    JRockit downloads are now available to the community again: http://forums.bea.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700001986 Regards, /Staffan
  36. J Rocking IT![ Go to top ]

    JRockit downloads are now available to the community again:
    http://forums.bea.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700001986

    Regards,
    /Staffan
    Ask and you shall receive. Thanks Oracle!
  37. Re: Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    We want to hear all the feedback you're willing to provide about the transition via this group: http://mix.oracle.com/groups/10943 (registration warning!) Are things harder to find on OTN than on Dev2Dev? Sure they are; there's about 1000% more content. But we're always trying to do better. Justin Kestelyn EIC, Oracle Technology Network
  38. Re: Run for the hills[ Go to top ]

    BEA's site was easy to use, easy to find stuff and very search-able. I loved dev2Dev.
    Thank you! Speaking as the BEA-Oracle employee responsible for the program globally, I can assure you that we're working *really* hard with the OTN folks on a smooth integration / transition. While the July 1st strategy webcast may answer lots of strategy questions, I'm happy to hear your feedback regarding the community transition. I can be reached at pieter dot humphrey at oracle dot com.
  39. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    I've made the transition to Oracle from BEA as a Systems Engineer working with Enterprise customers from a pre-sales perspective. So far, I have not had a single one of my customers complain to me about any aspect of the transition. I have worked with some of them for 2.5+ years, so they know me well enough to be honest. If you are a BEA developer / customer and have concerns or have heard some FUD from somewhere else, definitely reach out to your account teams to get some clarification and make your voice heard. If you don't know who your account team is, reach out to me and I'll track them down for you. james dot bayer at oracle dot com. James Bayer Oracle Sales Consultant
  40. Judging from JavaOne[ Go to top ]

    Given the booth of BEA at the Oracle Stall at JavaOne and the general mood the guys who had to sit there (and draw the fire), I would not be surprised if parts of WebLogic would simply cease to exists because of neglect. I cannot look inside BEA of course, but I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the key persons for the products support and development would decide to move on.
  41. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    BEA has a lot of great product. But it is very bad Oracle bouth it. I am worrying Oracle will harm the WebLogic series. If Oracle want to kill WebLogic, I think it is killing herself. Also, If you let me make a decision on serveral application servers, I perfer to choose WebSphere, JBoss or Glassfish instead of Oracle's garbages if WebLogic was died.
  42. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    BEA has a lot of great product. [..] If you let me make a decision on serveral application servers, I perfer to choose WebSphere, JBoss or Glassfish instead of Oracle's garbages if WebLogic was died.
    While the official announcements are coming in the July 1 web-cast, it should be clear by now that Oracle is not killing WebLogic. Regarding the Oracle Garbages product, we no longer offer or support that product, but it was a very successful anti-virus product for a short period of time. I hope this helps ;-) Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java and .NET
  43. RE Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    I have been working with BEA products for over eight years and have worked as a consultant for BEA. I think by far the BEA line of products especially WebLogic Server are superior to the rest. My hope is that Oracle aka Larry Ellison will leave BEA intact, drop their SOA garbage and fully back the BEA product line. However my gut tells me that they will at least try to couple an integrated solution with 10g. Which may not be a bad idea to have an integrated app server/database platform that can be clustered and scaled for production HA environments. Will
  44. Re: RE Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    I suspect that what we'll discover is that Oracle is like most other giant juggernaut companies: Procedural, and driven from the top. Translating this: simple things cannot be done until authorised by an American in 2 months time, nothing can be changed, free-thinking by employees will be discouraged and all attempts by customers to communicate will be routed through an off-shore call centre where people working from scripts will prevent any useful contact.
  45. Oracle[ Go to top ]

    I suspect that what we'll discover is that Oracle is like most other giant juggernaut companies: Procedural, and driven from the top. Translating this: simple things cannot be done until authorised by an American in 2 months time, nothing can be changed, free-thinking by employees will be discouraged and all attempts by customers to communicate will be routed through an off-shore call centre where people working from scripts will prevent any useful contact.
    Every large company tends toward that mode unless there is a sustained and active effort that permeates the company in order to prevent it. Large companies suffer from this type of problem as a side-effect of standardization and consolidation of process. If it is allowed to exist, the resulting stifling environment creates a positive feedback loop: A few of those "free-thinking employees" that you mentioned are the first to leave, and with less of a critical mass to support other similar employees, more and more depart. Eventually, if drastic action is not taken, you are left with a giant bureaucracy and no real workers. I obviously cannot speak for Oracle as a whole, but within my team (which sits inside the Fusion Middleware organization, which is the organization where most of BEA landed), we actively work to push more control down to the individual members of the team, and it works very well. In many measurements, including development productivity and product quality, we are at record highs. (Admittedly, that may be a side-effect of me not coding much anymore. ;-) Peace, Cameron Purdy Oracle Coherence: Data Grid for Java, .NET and C++
  46. This thread seems to begin and end with "WAG the dog".
  47. Re: Calling All BEA Developers[ Go to top ]

    Today, Oracle provided clear top-down direction for (formerly) BEA products including WebLogic Server. It is good news. See the webcast by President Charles Phillips and Oracle Senior VP Thomas Kurian, "BEA Welcome and Middleware Strategy Briefing", currently available for replay: http://www.oracle.com/webapps/events/EventsDetail.jsp?p_eventId=81641&src=6652055&src=6652055&Act=11 This webcast delivers a comprehensive review of the integration of BEA products into the Oracle middleware strategy. To cut to the chase relative to WebLogic Server, 33 minutes into the webcast, Thomas Kurian summarized the product offering and direction in the application server space. I've quoted below: "BEA WebLogic Server, the market-leading Java application server, becomes Oracle's strategic J2EE container. With WebLogic, we've also integrated a number of features from Oracle's own Application Server - things like our object-relational mapping and Java Persistence API implementation, called Oracle TopLink, which is the Reference Implementation for the specification of Enterprise Java Beans. That will become the strategic JPA and EJB provider within WebLogic. Oracle Coherence, another area where we've taken a number of technologies we had in our application server, and added that to WebLogic. And so Coherence is the technology I mentioned that provides the in-memory application grid capability to support very high performance transactional applications in Java. Other areas where we're taking technology from Oracle's Application Server and quickly converging it with WebLogic include Web Services, the Service Component Architecture runtime that Oracle had, security providers, and various other areas. Now, Oracle's own Application Server continues development going forward. So we will continue to make enhancements to Oracle's Application Server, and particularly for E-Business Suite customers who have deployed Oracle Application Server, you will not need to migrate in a forced fashion to WebLogic. Finally, Oracle's technical direction with our Java Enterprise Edition is to continue to modularize the application server around an industry standard called OSGi. So we believe that customers want a more modular Java application server and we continue going forward to support the OSGi model, and you will see us evolving the WebLogic Server and our application server technology to support a more modular implementation...." Oracle has made a significant investment in BEA products and technology, including WebLogic Server, and is serious about leveraging and investing in WebLogic Server going forward. I believe this is good news for WebLogic Server customers and users. Check out the webcast, what we're doing and where we're going. Will