Good News for Java Developers in a Tight Economy

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News: Good News for Java Developers in a Tight Economy

  1. Some IT skills see pay hikes during downturn. Java, Linux, virtualization and business process skills among those seeing an increase in pay. Budget dollars may be tight, but enterprise IT departments can't do without the technology skills, talent and certifications they need to better navigate a down economy.
    Pay for Java and HTTP skills increased by 20%, while IT professionals with PHP, SAP and Unix noncertified skills experienced a more than 14% pay increase. Pay for various noncertified skills in virtualization also saw an increase of more than 12%, according to the research firm.
    Click here for more analysis and data on certified skill sets.

    Threaded Messages (20)

  2. Stimulus payment?[ Go to top ]

    It's good to know that Java developers are maintaining their pay rate. Remember 2001 when a Webmaster's hourly rate dropped to $65? The only thing I keep wondering about is PushToTest's stimulus payment! We send letter after letter to President Obama and have not received a check. :-( -Frank
  3. Pay for Java and HTTP skills increased by 20%, java developers also gain importance by developing mobile technologies. There is very rapidly growing on mobile technologies based on java
  4. I quit looking because pay rates have gone down. Not that there is no work. It seems that people have taken the opportunity to lower rates. This could just be contracting rates.
  5. I do not expect to get a pay hike. I am willing to work for a below the average pay rate as long as I can find my next job. Java jobs have been moved to India. Only a few senior architects or designers are needed to overlook the progress of the project. Usually they'll have to work in the early morning or late night hours so as to get hold of their peers in India. Pay hike? I'll have to find my next job first.
  6. Java jobs have been moved to India. Only a few senior architects or designers are needed to overlook the progress of the project.
    Really? My understanding is that we still employ more than a few Java developers here in the United States. At heart I don't disagree with unhappiness at the kind of unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies. But at the same time I don't see any point in exaggerating the real state of affairs. We've been hearing for at least a decade that the jobs are all going overseas, but that has not happened yet. At my place, in fact, some of those jobs are coming back here - and we are hardly unique in that respect. The whole thing is starting to remind me of the talk about the mainframe going away. What's the real story?
  7. Java jobs have been moved to India. Only a few senior architects or designers are needed to overlook the progress of the project.


    Really? My understanding is that we still employ more than a few Java developers here in the United States.

    At heart I don't disagree with unhappiness at the kind of unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies. But at the same time I don't see any point in exaggerating the real state of affairs. We've been hearing for at least a decade that the jobs are all going overseas, but that has not happened yet. At my place, in fact, some of those jobs are coming back here - and we are hardly unique in that respect.

    The whole thing is starting to remind me of the talk about the mainframe going away. What's the real story?
    I think the real story is that a lot of the offshoring hype has ended. It won't disappear and things are going to be different than they were in the 90s and before but reports of the death of the American programmer are highly exaggerated. However, there are managers who are far behind the curve and are trying to move everything offshore.
  8. Java jobs have been moved to India. Only a few senior architects or designers are needed to overlook the progress of the project.


    Really? My understanding is that we still employ more than a few Java developers here in the United States.

    At heart I don't disagree with unhappiness at the kind of unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies. But at the same time I don't see any point in exaggerating the real state of affairs. We've been hearing for at least a decade that the jobs are all going overseas, but that has not happened yet. At my place, in fact, some of those jobs are coming back here - and we are hardly unique in that respect.

    The whole thing is starting to remind me of the talk about the mainframe going away. What's the real story?


    I think the real story is that a lot of the offshoring hype has ended. It won't disappear and things are going to be different than they were in the 90s and before but reports of the death of the American programmer are highly exaggerated. However, there are managers who are far behind the curve and are trying to move everything offshore.
    I think the offshoring hype has been over for a while. Maybe for the 5th time my boss will realize that he's Charlie Brown and random Indians are Lucy
  9. ... unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies.
    I guess it is about cutting costs. I'm not from India... but I'm from Argentina. For example, I earn less than 22k usd/year and my position is architecture manager (I'm a graduated software engineer.. I have 2 Java certifications... etc.) Other example: last week a colleague quit from his job. He is a Java programmer and he was earning less than 8k usd/year...
  10. ... unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies.


    I guess it is about cutting costs. I'm not from India... but I'm from Argentina. For example, I earn less than 22k usd/year and my position is architecture manager (I'm a graduated software engineer.. I have 2 Java certifications... etc.)

    Other example: last week a colleague quit from his job. He is a Java programmer and he was earning less than 8k usd/year...
    It is about cutting costs. Unfortunately it often doesn't work in that costs do not go down or the resulting problems cost more than what was saved. It's really not about off-shore, near-shore or any country in particular. These issues are a result of handing off work to a business whose interests are not perfectly aligned with your interests. Basic game theory stuff.
  11. ... unpatriotic behavior we see from so many companies.


    I guess it is about cutting costs. I'm not from India... but I'm from Argentina. For example, I earn less than 22k usd/year and my position is architecture manager (I'm a graduated software engineer.. I have 2 Java certifications... etc.)

    Other example: last week a colleague quit from his job. He is a Java programmer and he was earning less than 8k usd/year...


    It is about cutting costs. Unfortunately it often doesn't work in that costs do not go down or the resulting problems cost more than what was saved.

    It's really not about off-shore, near-shore or any country in particular. These issues are a result of handing off work to a business whose interests are not perfectly aligned with your interests. Basic game theory stuff.
    Also falls under "How much is it going to cost to save money?"
  12. How does it feel?[ Go to top ]

    I guess it is about cutting costs. I'm not from India... but I'm from Argentina. For example, I earn less than 22k usd/year and my position is architecture manager (I'm a graduated software engineer.. I have 2 Java certifications... etc.)

    Other example: last week a colleague quit from his job. He is a Java programmer and he was earning less than 8k usd/year...
    How does it make you feel when people up north make 5 times as much as you do? Don't you feel at least a little bit exploited? Why don't you stand up for your rights as a worker?
  13. I don't understand why people simply convert the currency of other country into dollars and then compare that with the salary in USA. For example, 100k in US will be 5000k in Indian Rs which is a lot. If a person need 100k for a good life style then you need 1000k much in India for the same lifestyle. So its not like the people in India are working for less, they are getting the same. Only difference is the currency conversion rate.
  14. Currency difference[ Go to top ]

    Agree, from the developer point of view it's about what the currency worth in the originating country, and it's far not the same the currency is converted to other one. But from the company point of view, this conversion is more important. However taking to account the other expenses it rarely worth to bring a business to India for example.
  15. Re: Currency difference[ Go to top ]

    Explaining this in such a complicated manner is not needed. Your apartment costs $1000/month in rent. The apartment of the guy from Argentina may be $250/month. $100k vs $25k suddenly seems fair :) Offshoring is not as cheap as it sounds either. My company had some offshoring contracts, too. There are costs other than the hourly pay which need to be included in these calculations. Nothing wrong with offshoring, though. Numerous families in Asia, South America and Eastern Europe have increased their quality of life significantly and can now contribute much more to their own economies and thus the demand for local work force increases, which in turn leaves more jobs for us :) I still remember 2003 when everybody told me that we will all be outsourced soon. This hasn't happened and as another's have correctly identified: demand for skilled technicians and engineers still exists... despite recession (remember how it was 2001).
  16. Re: Currency difference[ Go to top ]

    Explaining this in such a complicated manner is not needed. Your apartment costs $1000/month in rent. The apartment of the guy from Argentina may be $250/month. $100k vs $25k suddenly seems fair :)
    Fairness and the cost of living are not really pertinent in terms of what business are willing to pay for developers. Businesses don't care whether the pay is fair. They pay is determined by the value of what is produced. If an developer in another country is paid only 25% of what the local developer demands, it's because the remote developer is only worth 25% of the local developer to the country. It doesn't matter if the remote developer's rent is higher or lower than the local developer. That matters to the developer. If the developer can't get a business to pay enough to at least cover that developer's cost of living that developer won't accept it.
  17. Non First World Workers[ Go to top ]

    I agree business do not care about fair they care about profit. Workers in BRIC and non first world countries have even less leverage than the workers in the US, if you can't defend your rights and job in the US, what hope have they got ? The relative cost of living argument works, but what happens if the developer wants to immigrate or the developer is given a temporary work visa on such a low rate ? Then the exchange rate absolutely becomes critical. Costs of living in the US are fairly low, and costs of living in BRIC countries are rising. So I don't see the cost of living argument as holding much water. Often this is also not an apples to apples comparison. You may not have the same roads, hospitals, legal system, food, house, everything that goes with a country. You cannot compare the cost of living of a mud hut to a beverly hills mansion. People in developing countries often have to accept work that severely damages their health on a daily basis, they simply do not have an option, unless starving is considered one. A large proportion of the worlds population are economic slaves, slavery is not dead, its just been rebranded.
  18. Rates[ Go to top ]

    In my opinion, in the USA the difference of salaries between qualified and non-qualified jobs is bigger than in Europe. Not to speak if the qualified people has a masters degree. Perhaps the problem (or advantage) is that too many people hold these degrees. It's really cheap going to university, at least in Spain.
  19. Off-shoring[ Go to top ]

    We did some off-shoring a couple of years ago with a reputated indiand company based in Bangalore. The project failed (now it's in good health) due to the following: - Neither indians or we (spanish) had english as native language. Our english was poorer, in fact. Therefore the requirements we're not easy to understand and caused misunderstandings. Talking by phone was also difficult for some of us. - The indian guys never say no. Sometimes I explained a complex thing and the programmer said that he understood, but he didn't. I assume it's a cultural problem. Japanese do the same, I believe. - The rotation in their company was extremly high, just a few months. Our project is functionally complex, and we have a custom framework that needs at least one year to be productive with. Today we are doing near-shore and it's fine. That's my experience with off-shoring.
  20. Is this only applies in USA? It doesn't happen anywhere else on the other part of the world.
  21. Is this only applies in USA? It doesn't happen anywhere else on the other part of the world.
    Yes of course it happens only in US of A. You can always expect such comments from them.