New Article: Developers Split on Open Sourcing Java

Discussions

News: New Article: Developers Split on Open Sourcing Java

  1. Now that Oracle is absorbing Sun Microsystems, there are mixed views on what should come of the Java Community Process (JCP). While some say Oracle should become the new steward of Java and keep the JCP much as it was, others argue that it may be time to open-source this widespread language. Some think Oracle should open Java up to the world, but many argue this approach would be the death of the language. Read Article

    Threaded Messages (18)

  2. I believe Java needs a good leadership as opposed to pure open source as some of the members of the community think. Ultimately, Java should not die due to lack of leadership.
  3. I believe Java needs a good leadership as opposed to pure open source as some of the members of the community think. Ultimately, Java should not die due to lack of leadership.
  4. I believe Java needs a good leadership as opposed to pure open source as some of the members of the community think. Ultimately, Java should not die due to lack of leadership.
    Hmm lost my comments. Anyways, history has shown that JCP and other heavy process has led to very slow progress, I vote for the open source community to continue developing it and add features missing since long; closures, language enhancements
  5. I think it would be good if Oracle would continue the JCP as it is and improve on it. The JCP is actually a quite fast process and generally produces good specifications. In particular, in the last years the approach has been more and more to take community input from proven approaches from opensource projects and turn it into specifications instead of writing a specification out of the blue. One good example of this is JPA and another is the new dependency injection framework in Javs EE.
  6. Control is needed[ Go to top ]

    Java will die a death of Creeping Featuritis if there is no entity with the bigger picture. Especially for core stuff that can't be moduled out...
  7. Java will die a death of Creeping Featuritis if there is no entity with the bigger picture. Especially for core stuff that can't be moduled out...
    why are being opensource and having good leadership in anyway related? i think java should be opensourced because oracle has a history of making anything they touch worse with the exception of maybe databases. i also think that whoever controls access to the code repository should be a good leader.
  8. Hmm[ Go to top ]

    why are being opensource and having good leadership in anyway related?
    They are note directly related but the risk is that if there is no Benevolent Leader etc, features tend to be added so that the project doesn't look stagnated. That's fine as long as stuff can be modularized but if you first throw in closures, then you take some syntactic sugar from scripting languages then you throw in multiple inheritance and no-one steps in and says "Hey, this doesn't follow the original design goals of the language", well, you get the picture.
  9. why are being opensource and having good leadership in anyway related?
    Exactly. Java has already been open sourced. It's GPL'ed -- fork it to your heart's content. Of course you can't call the resulting fork Java unless it passes compatibility tests, but that's quite appropriate. What we're really talking about here is openness of leadership, which is quite different. There are some really popular open source projects which went through phases of completely belligerent management where no outside patches however good were accepted. Overall there's a balance here. A language really needs a brilliant benevolent dictator, not design by committee or a community. The dictator should listen to the community, but really strong leadership is a must.
  10. I like the JCP[ Go to top ]

    I like the jCP structure, but it does need to change. * There should be no closed mail lists for expert group discussions. All interactions from expert groups should be public. * Every Java EE specification should allow for standalone implementation and bundling as a separate product and mixed together a la carte. Java EE should remain the same. An uber profile that people have to implement to call themselves Java EE, but there should be no limitation on how individual Sub-JSRs are bundled together.
  11. Re: I like the JCP[ Go to top ]

    There should be no closed mail lists for expert group discussions. All interactions from expert groups should be public.
    There will always be politics and off-list communication...
  12. Sun's license is best[ Go to top ]

    apache license allows anyone to modify and redistribute buggy code. Sun has some test compatibilty kit. A check as to whether original scriptures have been modified/tampered with before being sold is cool. -Hari
  13. I agree, languages do need a strong lead to canalize change requests from the community. But this lead must allow changes. I first heard from Java in 1995 these are 15 years. If I look at the language itself, not so much has changed (the most important thing are generics). BTW: A significant amount of JCPs are there because the language lacks some functionality. The big changes are taking place by new languages like Groovy or Scala. These two are showing that other communities are able to design and implement different concepts (IMHO in perfection). Java will never be dead. But its innovation is to slow. (Maybe we need to separate the language from the JVM?)
  14. JCP is big pain in the ass ...Sun microsystem is sinking ship ......all that crap thats come out of JCP is useless anyway ...too complex and too impractical ...EJB , jsf ...look around do actually use SUN /JCP stuff ...i use spring , gwt , tomcat , fmee marker , apache commons, eclipse .....you must also remember apache jhakarta ...most famous and probably used components are NOT from SUN JCP .....I hope sun dies a quick death algont with JCP ...JDK etc is taken care by apache harmony
  15. @pagux pagux: Tomcat runs on a SUN spec (servlet API).Spring uses the Java language :) etc... I hope you get the picture, but I would suggest for once try the JEE 5 stack and u will be surprised to little code is required to build a crud app, or something more complex. I have seen that my Spring codebase is larger and in times more complex. I must agree with you that JSF is not the most sexy language and easy to work with. Here I would also choose a differtent one (JavaFX or Spring mvc for me). @Sigmund Lundgren: A good language is not per definition one with the most buzz word like enhancements. Use a sublanguage like groovy for this. You can use all the scriptlike stuff and still code java and run in the jvm. Personally, I think there is no need to enhance the java language. You code anything in it. There is already too much functionality in there that is only for the benefit of shorter (more unreadable) code.
  16. @Sigmund Lundgren: A good language is not per definition one with the most buzz word like enhancements. Use a sublanguage like groovy for this. You can use all the scriptlike stuff and still code java and run in the jvm. Personally, I think there is no need to enhance the java language. You code anything in it. There is already too much functionality in there that is only for the benefit of shorter (more unreadable) code. I already use Groovy, I still think Java needs improvements and closures is one of them. Took forever to discuss whether it should be included or not and then what? The current generics implementation... sigh..
  17. .....I hope sun dies a quick death algont with JCP ...
    There is no need to wish them a quick death ;-) Apache is a big thing too, many responsibilities and chairman etc. Spring is VMWare now - right? Is this better? I agree that we do not have to be afraid if SUN dies.
  18. Well Java can be at its best if Oracle can handle it properly with its deep experience in IT and Java itself. All we have to wait and watch the first few months of aquisition then can get some idea of where its going to head. I personally/professionally don't want such a massive works behind Java go waste and I don't see its happening at the hand of Oracle but again licensing, terms, etc. has to be watched with commercialized Oracle. We don't have to worry much as Java has strong and deep rooted in most of the Global top companies and will go forever. Good thing is no real language which is really close and chasing Java in its Uniqueness/UserBase/Architecture/Functionality/Feature/etc. to its fullest capability. One big worry is how other big Java supporters like IBM, HP, etc. going to work with Oracle which is an interesting factor to watch in coming months. Long live Java.
  19. One big worry is how other big Java supporters like IBM, HP, etc. going to work with Oracle which is an interesting factor to watch in coming months.

    Long live Java.
    They pretty much would have to (work with Oracle). Fragment Java now and Microsoft will have a field day with their "white papers".