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News: Java: Nothing Without the Community

  1. Java: Nothing Without the Community (10 messages)

    James Sugrue wrote up "Java: Nothing Without the Community" on DZone, basically namechecking Stephen Colebourne's "The Deal." Mr. Sugrue says that he hopes people stick it out with Java now that Oracle is in control.

    The thing is: people see Oracle as disregarding the community, whether it's through trying to take over the Hudson name, or ramrodding the Java 7 vote in the JCP, or... the list goes on, time after time. Their response to the Apache field-of-use complaint is a good example: Oracle has basically said "we want you back, but if you're gone, oh well. We're moving forward."

    The main point of contention for most people isn't the Apache protest itself - Bill Burke said that Apache was being a problem for Java instead of just rolling with it and moving forward. The problem for most people is that Oracle seems to be ignoring the Java community's desires, which means we get relegated to the role of .net developers, where we get to use whatever Oracle hands down.

    Of course, oracle would never SAY that's what is happening, but that's what people feel. And perception is king.

    Mr. Colebourne's post has a good point: he says that people don't just think of the JVM and the runtime library when they think of Java: they think of the runtime and a list of what looks like a few hundred other things (including TheServerSide.) It's not just Oracle's toy, even if Oracle seems to think so lately.

    Mr. Sugrue closes with this, which I agree with:

    What I hope is that the community hasn't lost hope. While I understand how people may not be so happy with the state of Java, I think that everyone has put too much into the community to do anything like giving up now. The ultimate Christmas present from Oracle would be to somehow resolve the Apache situation, drop the lawsuits and focus on the technology. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I know that the community will keep Java going. 

    Threaded Messages (10)

  2. No need to give up at all[ Go to top ]

    I for one haven't given up on Java. I feel Java is in much better hands now than the final days at Sun. To me a stable and reliable JVM and platform is much more important than tail chasing. I happen to love the diversity of open source, even if it's often full of conflict and flame wars. Having different opinions and desires is unavoidable. To me that is a sign Java ecosystem is healthy. If no one cared about Java or gave up, we wouldn't see heated debates. The ball is clearly in Oracle's court and it is up to them to figure out the best way for them to guide the future. Only time will tell.

  3. I will keep it short.

    The JCP has certainly given us a lot. But what about the progress of Java?

    Apache quit the JCP because of license (business?) issues with Oracle, not that they disagreed with Oracle on the technical side of Java.

    Criticizing Oracle has become a fashion in the Java community now a days (the same community where if you wanted to get popular earlier, you had to post something like "Java will die" to get all the attention).

    I think someone needs to point to the fact that Java is lacking behind and if needed, dictate the way towards progress (I don't care if its Oracle or whatever).

  4. Losing the stream on Java ?[ Go to top ]

    I am an hard core Java fan for the several years, one of the best invention by Sun for IT world. But lately I have been so concerned about the future of Java, especially ever since it bought by Oracle and making as Open Source. Earlier when I want to install new version of Java it used to take me few minutes (never more than 5 minutes), recently I wanted to explore latest version of Java but I have literally spent so much time to figure out where is the download link. This concerns me a lot and certainly an alarming. Hope Oracle won’t kill the future of Java.

  5. hard to find? hardly[ Go to top ]

    Really, it takes you a long time to find the download link? I went to http://java.sun.com (or http://java.oracle.com if you like) and there is a nice button labelled "Get Java" right in the big section titled "Downloads"

  6. hard to find? hardly[ Go to top ]

    I've noticed a lot of people being unable to do complex tasks in java lately - with such tasks being "uninstall" and "install" and "download." This is NOT a good sign.

    Folks, if you're unable to uninstall or download or install Java, please stay away from your computer keyboard - this is not hard stuff. And if you're a Java Champion, please give your badge to someone else - a Java Champion who can't figure out how to do those things really isn't much of a champion at all, especially one who doesn't have a sense of shame that's developed enough to prevent him from exposing his ignorance to all.

    A Champion like that isn't a Champion - that's a "Java Anchor."

  7. hard to find? hardly[ Go to top ]

    Maybe some one can write a 'Head First' book on downloading, un/installing java!

  8. hard to find? hardly[ Go to top ]

    Amen,  brother.

  9. So what[ Go to top ]

    Very nicely put. Unfortunately, Larry doesn't give a shit. It's just all about the benjamins in short term - buy out every valuable piece of software and then make the suckers pay. Simple as that. I think there's no hope for community-driven java under Oracle's wings. It would probably be better for the community (and ASF) to turn to Google. At least they seem to feel what open-source and free software is all about.

  10. Google could just pay oracle[ Go to top ]

    Seriously, google could just pay oracle a few million and make android the java mobile platform. The argument can go either way.

  11. Leaving Java[ Go to top ]

    I am a passionate developer who discovered Java in college. Back in high-school i code in Pascal or Delph mainly and I tried some other alternatives, C++, C# , PHP and finally Java. For me, Java was a love at first sight, in college I discovered the full potential of it, this was happening in 2007-2008. From there on, all my school projects, were done in Java, also I discovered the best Java IDE IMHO Netbeans.

    Everything went great for a while, until I read the news Sun was bought by Oracle, from that day I knew something, Java will change and it will lose the most important aspect of it, it's opennes. And the late news are confirming my fears. Google lawsuit, the postponing of Java 7 release and so forth, are the top of the iceberg.  What Java loses, now is the developers that don't have the certainty that things will be changed in good and those who are passionate but don't have the safety that their released apps, will be compatible with future releases.Practically, Java is becoming like .NET, at any release you have to change your apps in a way that sometimes gives you a headache, just because the owner sees different than the users community. Java Community will last, that's for sure, but I don't know if there will be like in those romantic days of Java...