This latest ZK release introduces a new custom SEO content generator, a more intelligent mechanism that fits layout to content, a new interactive tree model, additional built in jQuery effects and others.
Release note: http://www.zkoss.org/release/rn-5.0.6.dsp
You need to address the bogey of 'standard' that many people raise against ZK.
True, people, especially 'marketech', put too much focus on so-called standard. They never realize there is only winners. Hibernate beat EJB, Spring beat JavaEE.. And, I'd like to add ZK beat JSF. Moreover, JSF does not address the spec of components at all. That is, the value of standard is really meaningless once you decide an implementation.
They never realize there is only winners. Hibernate beat EJB, Spring beat JavaEE..
Hibernate is just the persistence part. BTW, it implements JPA and I'd encourage everyone to use the standard interfaces as much as possible. EJB is something else, you're mixing technologies without giving any detail. Sounds like basically uninformed, at most outdated advice. Wrong, in any case.
And, I'd like to add ZK beat JSF. Moreover, JSF does not address the spec of components at all.
The building blocks *are* standard.
That is, the value of standard is really meaningless once you decide an implementation.
Just talk for yourself. I really see added value and guarantees.
Hibernate beat EJB
??? And cows beat cheese? Rockets beat wrist watches? Seriously dude, you are mixing up technologies.
Spring beat Java EE.
Only in Rod's wildest dreams.
Moreover, JSF does not address the spec of components at all. That is, the value of standard is really meaningless once you decide an implementation.
OMG! Not another one who thinks that Richfaces and Tomhawk are JSF implementations. :|
I could explain how wrong you are, but given your level of ignorance it would probably be wasted on you.
True, people, especially 'marketech', put too much focus on so-called standard. They never realize there is only winners. Hibernate beat EJB
There are many persistence solutions, and I use others ... OpenJPA, DataNucleus. Actually preferable to Hibernate for many reasons. So no, there are not "only winners".
I've done projects in JSP, Applet, Strut 1, and JSF in the early days. I've evaluated GWT, Openlaszlo, and Flex, and they were cool. When I learned the ZK framework two years ago, I started to fall in love with it. Its programming model let me make a rich ajax web app very quickly, and yet I don't need to know about javascript and browser compatibility issues.
Back to your question about standards. It's cool to program in standards because all JEE app servers support it, and there exists tremendous amount of free learning materials out there. Plus it's easy to sell your job skill.
What happens if the standard becomes slow to innovate, and is relatively less productive than other non-standard programming models?
Sure, there are risks to go with non-standards. To me, the backend tier out-lives the life time of the UI-tier in enterpise applications. I would make a clean separation between the UI-tier and the backend to reduce the risk. For now, ZK seems the best UI programning model out there from my experiences. For the future, we'll see.
(I'm not associated with the ZK team, but just a ZK lover.)
If you look at the comments and at the links provided therein at The Server Side post on GWT adjacent to the post on ZK, it would appear that the developers who use ZK have been mercifully spared from the complexity of the framework developed at, of all the places, Google, which I am sure can buy out Zkoss, the developer of ZK, with much less than a day of its income.
This is quite an amazing feat for Zkoss, and should inspire all small teams of software developers who are trying to challenge the giants in their domain.
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If you look at the comments and at the links provided therein at The Server Side post on GWT adjacent to the post on ZK, it would appear that the developers who use ZK have been mercifully spared from the complexity of the framework developed at, of all the places, Google, which I am sure can buy out Zkoss, the developer of ZK, with much less than a day of its income.
This is quite an amazing feat for Zkoss, and should inspire all small teams of software developers who are trying to challenge the giants in their domain.
Strange that you "have nothing to do with ZK" yet you decide to get a login very recently and now are so wishing of a buyout etc etc. And then there are one or two other logins on this post who have magically decided to get sign up and post glowing things about ZK.
Anyone mention astroturfing?
That's what happens when you develop products that people like.
I plead guilty to having registered only a few days ago, but have no desire (and probably no means) to prove to you that I have no connection to ZK, and so you can take my enthusistic endorsement of the frameowrk in whatever manner you please.
However, the most rational approach would be to at least check it out.
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Neil,
I happened to be in the exact situation as john smith. I registered a few days ago just for the purpose to post on ZK. I am not affiliated with zkoss in whatever way, though we are in the process of buying a comercial license from zkoss. I guess there is no way that I can convince you that john (and maybe others) and I are really different people, unless we all show up the same time at your front door.And seriously, the easiest way for you to find out, is to just give it a try with a small project. That was how I started on ZK, and it has stuck since. I did have experience with various javascript frameworks, GWT, Echo and JSF, but ZK really has been the most productive one for me.
On the topic regarding Hibernate vs EJB: true, EJB and Hibernate are different, but I still remember the good old days when I was using persistent EJBs, which was equivalent to what Hibernate. In that sense, Hibernate does make the clunky persistent EJB obsolete. So it is not too much of a stretch to compare hibernate to EJB. BTW, I am not too hot on Hibernate either, but then it is totally another topic that will draw a lot of flames.
You need to address the bogey of 'standard' that many people raise against ZK.
__________________
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Good job on creating a great product and constantly releasing new features.
Just a typo on your URL: the release history on the right hand side of the page shows 5.0.6 with date 2010. Shouldn't it be 2011?
Regarding the standard support: my view is that standard is important at integration points - e.g. between service layer and presentation; or between systems. Once you choose the presentation platform, you are also choosing its technology. So as long as it talks to other architectural layers and components using standard ways, there is no issue about standard support.
cheers
romen
ZK is simple to learn, has the right mix of (optional) XML and code. Server centric avoids many issues. The IDE is good. The productivity is excellent.
It is not perfect of course. I feel that while components are relatively easy to build, the experience can be better (still a bit fragmented). Client side intergration is a start, but I would prefer something like GWT integrated in, not just jQuery. It still needs better stock themes and more community components.
Vaadin addresses some of these, but has weaknesses of its own. PrimeFaces is also a good alternative. As such, there is still no web framework that I consider perfect design. So far, ZK has been wonderful for my projects since I tend to be polyglot on the JVM and server-side works better for this. The UI is quicker to layout than Vaadin. I may however, move to one of the GWT implementations for richer UI projects in the future. But if needed to get something up as quickly as possible and still be richly functional, I will look to ZK. In the future, I am hoping to mix Grails, GWT and ZK for maximum flexibility.
Maintaining, developing and setting standards within the industry is a key part to be successful with the work. However, the result is uncertain, efforts and focus is still needed in the implementation of strategies.- Texas Lending
