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News: Open Letter to Java Developers from Sun

  1. Open Letter to Java Developers from Sun (18 messages)

    In an open letter to the Java developer community, Sun asks that we petition Microsoft to include Java in the new Windows XP. Worth the read!

    "SURE, MICROSOFT BELIEVES IN FREEDOM OF CHOICE.
    AS LONG AS THEY GET TO CHOOSE."

    http://java.sun.com/features/2001/08/images/choiceletter.pdf.

    Threaded Messages (18)

  2. Cheap move! How pathetic!
    Don't they have a respect for themselves ?
    Sun acts exaclty the same way, and uses same tricks as MS does.
  3. Vagif,

     I move believe the "Move" is perfect.
     Sun was always blamed for not taking the issues to General public(Probalby Every Developer) and thats what thyey did now.

     

    Kumar.
  4. Mettu,
    I don't disagree with you.

    pradeep
  5. Microsoft is rather too late to decide, they should have done this long back when applet was first introduced as a new client side technology. It really did a big mistake by trying to embrace java and ultimately got it sound from Sun.
    Now MS cannot support latest versions of java, so what is the use of bundling an outdated version of a JVM with its IE.
    It is really cheap on the part of Sun Microsystems to call the public support for this. A company which is in no way less to MS should keep up its esteem. Sun should atleast this time stand by itself and fight out the competition, instead of grouping organizations or people with like interest.
  6. LOL! I don't think Sun's PR people were consulted prior to this move. All this has done is make it look vital that MS include a JVM in XP. Form a sentence that includes the words "Sun", "feet", "both" and "shot"

    Thinking ahead here...

    ...If Sun kept shtum, many people would never have noticed or cared that the free plugin they installed for IE6 is the latest JVM for XP.
  7. Microsoft is rather too late to decide, they should have done this long back when applet was first introduced as a new client side technology. It really did a big mistake by trying to embrace java and ultimately got it sound from Sun.
    Now MS cannot support latest versions of java, so what is the use of bundling an outdated version of a JVM with its IE.
    It is really cheap on the part of Sun Microsystems to call the public support for this. A company which is in no way less to MS should keep up its esteem. Sun should atleast this time stand by itself and fight out the competition, instead of grouping organizations or people with like interest.
  8. I agree: it really is pathethic and makes Sun sound weak, like a bunch of losers crying for a booby prize. If the technology and marketing were good enough, they wouldn't resort to politics and the cult of personality.
  9. I am a J2EE architect and developer for IBM, and I'm not Microsoft fan. However, what did Sun expect would happen after the court decision?

    Anyway, why have M$ include a JVM, when it will be there own outdated version. If sun is offering a jvm that runs in IE6, people can download that one with the latest JVM specs.

    Well, maybe the everyday user will not have the knowledge to go to sun to do so? So I guess they need Microsoft to include a JVM. The stradegy for java is definitely the serverside, so the use of Applets on the Internet may decrease, however, they cannot stop Servlets/JSP from rendering html or xml. So is a new JVM version even needed on the browser?
  10. I am of the opinion that the decision of Microsoft not to ship the JVM with IE6 and windows XP is more of a publicity problem for Sun than a technical one. What good does an out of date JVM in these products do? None! We would all need to get JVM from another source and install them anyhow.

    I also agree with the idea that server side java is more the wave than applets and that this decision is not a major problem technically...
  11. Sure, being a MS basher and flaunting big hyped buzz-words
    and speking about so called open systems is assumed cool and awesome in the tech world today.
    What else does Sun and big anti MS rivals like AOL, Oracle
    expect after these companies collaborated to move for MS split.
    I think MS is correct in its step not to include competing
    technology Java for that matter in its next release of the XP. Why should it support rival technology when it can promote its own.
  12. I am a Datek user. Any real good tool for investing is an applet. (bigcharts.com, etc). I am a Java programmer but I will move on to the next big thing at the drop of the hat, providing that the next platform is open and not propriatary.

    I don't give a damn for politics - they all play the game well, and so they should - think of it. What some of us should realize is that many times, the course of history is shaped by users and not by promoters. You want to make a difference? Use the collective power.

  13. I'm not quite sure I understand how Microsoft can "remove" java from its operating system. Sun just needs to port a Java VM to XP, and we can install it ourselves.
  14. Current windows version and IE version contain a Microsoft VM to view Applets. XP will not ship with a JVM at all. You and I as developers know we can install a JVM from Sun or IBM which is faster, but my sister doesn't know. She can view a website with an Applet, and it doesn't work. She will doesn't even know what Sun Microsystems is.
    Microsoft will give the option to download thier VM to view the page with a warning that the content is unsafe or something.

    Companies will have to react then to change their content to be viewed without that warning message. This is one place where Microsoft plans to jump in and push .NET.

    The idea can backfire for Microsoft, though, as people might just take it that a site that worked before doesn't on this new browser?
  15. Roland Barcia wrote:

    > Current windows version and IE version contain a Microsoft VM to view Applets. XP will not ship with a JVM at all. You and I as developers know we can install a JVM from Sun or IBM which is faster, but my sister doesn't know. She can view a website with an Applet, and it doesn't work. She will doesn't even know what Sun Microsystems is. <

    Ignoring the issue of MS directing users to its own, inferior products (like MSN, like Hotmail), and ignoring the question of why you would want to do client-side computing in Java. I still don't see why downloading a JVM is more painful, or needs to be more mysterious, than downloading Flash or RealAudio. You and I may know that Flash comes from MacroMedia, or Winzip from Nico Mak Computing, but your sister probably uses both products and hasn't any idea where they came from.

    > Microsoft will give the option to download thier VM to view the page with a warning that the content is unsafe or something. <

    I agree, this is dirty pool. Is there a reason why Sun can't get the same kind of Verisign Authentication that other plug-in developers get?

    One other point. If Sun can insist that MS include a Java run-time, can Borland insist that MS include the VCL? Can Oracle insist that Net8 be installed?

    This is not flamebait, I'm not trolling. I just see Java (and Linux, for that matter) as server-side solutions.

    Art
  16. I still don't see why downloading a JVM is more painful, or needs to be more mysterious, than downloading Flash or RealAudio. <


    definetely agree with you

    >Is there a reason why Sun can't get the same kind of Verisign Authentication that other plug-in developers get?<

    >One other point. If Sun can insist that MS include a Java run-time, can Borland insist that MS include the VCL? Can Oracle insist that Net8 be installed?<

    that's it!
    I see the whole thing as a 'not-problem' as you all do. It's a 'not-problem' for those ones that are not developers just providing them a plug-in like any other tech on the web (ie Flash) for applets (a technology that's leaving room to server side components like servlets & JSP); it's far away to be a problem for developers in my opinion.





  17. When I read this (in full-page ads in the NY Times and Wall Street Journal), I was suprised at the whining tone in Sun's letter. Sun can easily go the AOL route and flood the country's mailboxes, magazines, and computer stores with CDs. (They just sent to my local user group a whole box of four-CD packs.)

    Not being bundled with Windows seemed not to be a problem for AOL, Napster, WinZip, or RealAudio (to name four off the top of my head).

    The real question in my mind is, what are the killer DESKTOP apps that would lead Joe Pornmeister and Mary E. Mailer to want Java at all?

    Art Metz
  18. http://www.limewire.com/
  19. Not being bundled with Windows seemed not to be a problem for AOL, Napster, WinZip, or RealAudio (to name four off the top of my head). <


    Non-programmers people will download and use these 'cool' tools because they use these EVERY day. And if they have to choose between downloading a native implementation or a java version of the same tool, they will download the native implementation. They don&#8217;t even know what is Java, anyway.