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News: IBM to open source WebSphere tools

  1. IBM to open source WebSphere tools (19 messages)

    ZDNET is reporting that "IBM plans to open source its WebSphere Studio Workbench in the near future, Scott Handy, the director of Linux solutions marketing for the IBM Software Group, told eWEEK in an interview this week." According to Handy "The Workbench is never going to be an IBM product and is never going to be sold."

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    Threaded Messages (19)

  2. Hey, do I feel something is overdone and smoking.. ( i mean the "opensource" part )

    why do we need a competitor to an already existing cool IDE ( Netbeans!)
    Probably, IBM's thinking of making money with the help of developers around the world.. I don't doubt that its good chance for developers to lay hands on these tools. But I feel this is soon die out.. !!

    hey.. btw, is this a wrong place to comment on this..

    Folks, what do you think !!

    -Praveen
  3. Well, I think the open source idea is really what IBM is aiming for. The fact is, a monolithic IDE like VAJ just simply won't cut it in this day and age if it wants to keep up with the latest specifications. The Eclipse platform gives it the flexibility to implement the latest specs with the least amount of hassle. In addition, open sourcing it allows other people to create plug-ins that the developer can use, and I think it'd be great to have various plug-ins competing for the greatest ease-of-use in my Java IDE. I think this is a winning combination for Java developers, and I'm guessing that the other IDE makers will eventually have to move towards a less monolithic approach (even though there are several great IDEs out there).

    SKL
  4. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Also, from what I can tell, IBM's Eclipse platform is much cooler than Netbeans. I may be totally wrong, but there's nothing that grabs me about the white papers that I read on Forte. Maybe it's just the marketing doesn't grab me. In your opinion, do you think that Netbeans implements basically the same type of modular structure that IBM's Workbench uses? If so, I will have to look at Forte again.

    SKL
  5. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    I've taken a glance at Eclipse platform. I see
    nothing special at that platform.

    Here are my opinions:
    - Why do they build another AWT (They call it SWT)?
      I don't see any advantages of it to compare
      with Swing. I like the idea of Swing, that
      you can have a platform independent look&feel.
      Did you try the MacOS X look&feel? It looks
      great! You can also use this look&feel within
      the NetBeans platform.
    - NetBeans is build really component-oriented.
      Just look how many modules they already have.
      You can just plug them in into the platform
      easily.

    My conclusion:
    - Instead of building Eclipse, IBM should join
      the effort with NetBeans. I know, IBM has many
      good programmers there. If IBM really wants
      to support the open source activity, they should
      join NetBeans. I myself don't need another IDE
      or platforms. I just need a really good open
      source platform. Don't forget this: how long
      does it take until NetBeans reach its current
      stability and functionality?
      NetBeans is really good and I'm sure, if IBM
      also supports them, it will be much more better!
      BTW: there are also another open source
      "light" platform available out there, like jedit, jext.
    - It's better for IBM, if they can make a new
      project "Desktop Environment" for Java, which is
      not available yet, instead of "Developer Environment"
      (boring and many exist already!).
      A wrapper for operating system's desktop in Java
      would be really cool. So instead of having Linux Desktop
      KDE or Gnome, Windows Desktop or Mac Desktop for
      each os, we can use a Java Desktop, which is os
      independent! This can help Java to settle on the
      client tier, because the users will have the same
      desktop at least for the most functionalities.
      Maybe Eclipse can be used for this purpose?
    --
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Blasius Lofi Dewanto
    ---------------------------------------------------
    OpenUSS - Open University Support System
    http://openuss.sourceforge.net
    ---------------------------------------------------
    E-Mail : dewanto@uni-muenster.de
    ICQ : 39343280
    ---------------------------------------------------
  6. What I can make out from the whitepaper on Eclipse..

    1, New look and feel..
         dont we have skins in Netbeans..
    2, Pluggability..
         we do have pluggability in netbeans..
    3, and then the everything compatible.. ??
         I can't clearly make out what it is.
    Did they confused themselves and others..
    What do they mean by an environment that supports java development, other language development ( software development ) and word document, html browsing..

     I mean who wants to surf the web using a java ide or do word processing.. think if someone wants all the plugins on eclipse, how fat his ide would be..

    I believe, Open source goal basically is to provide the best software available to all. Its competition is the "not-so-open-source" and not another open source product.

    Ideally, IBM should support Netbeans.
  7. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    I am a fans to Forte for Java or Netbeans. However, I think idea of Workbench is good also.

    1. Swing seems too resource intensive and slow. I completely agree that we should use more native thing to make GUI faster. Up to day, I don't thing Swing is a good to develop GUI application on a mid-range PC workstation. I have used JBuilder and Netbeans, they are all memory hungary. Thus, I completely think that SWT may be a good direction to try.

    2. Workbench seems try to develop one IDE not for Java only, may be C++ or evens C# and so on. Do you have experience on VisualStudio. They have a very integrated environment for all Microsoft Language in .NET version now. Thus, I think IBM want to have such IDE also from their intension to get rid of VisualAge of Java.

    3. I think Netbeans is mainly developed for Java related editing. Thus, they may have different goal. Thus, I want to see how far Eclipse go.
     
  8. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Also, from what I can tell, IBM's Eclipse platform is much cooler than Netbeans. I may be totally wrong, but there's nothing that grabs me about the white papers that I read on Forte. Maybe it's just the marketing doesn't grab me. In your opinion, do you think that Netbeans implements basically the same type of modular structure that IBM's Workbench uses? If so, I will have to look at Forte again.

    SKL
  9. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    A boat-anchor that is open source is still a boat-anchor.
  10. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Well, I was not going to sign up to theserverSice.com but I did because I wanted to reply to your message.

    First of all IBM built SWT, not because it is another AWT/Swing. Actually SWT is better in many ways than AWT/Swing. AWT/Swing is just way to darn slow for Enterprise tools. SWT uses native operating system calls to draw the widgets. It reduces the bulky layering that AWT and Swing have.

    Secondly, I have been using this plugin technology and I would have to say it is the best of its kind. Having a universal IDE to run all of your tools in, is the next big thing. We need tight integration for web-services and other leading edge integration solutions.

    So I think before we start hacking up Eclipse, I think we have to understand what it is being used for. I mean do you want to create your java-beans with one tool and then create your web-services in another, and then trying to debug this would be a nightmare because the integration is just not there. If everything is integrated then deployment of your enterprise beans will be much simpler.

    Again this is only my opinion.
  11. Having standards for everything will saturate the market. IBM is already supporting Java.
    Why should the IDE matter?
    WebSphere Studio Workbench is an incredible IDE.
  12. Roland,
    its not about supporting Java or supporting IDE.
    Its about an opensource effort not supporting opensource.
  13. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything wrong with a little competition in the open source space.

    I agree with the praises everyone here is giving NetBeans. But does this mean that it's not possible to create a better tool?

    This new platform is exactly what I like about Open Source. You try it; if you like the tool or the direction it's taking, you use it and maybe pitch in and help out. If not, you find something else.

    I for one am eager to take a close look at Eclipse.

    Cheers,
    Ed
  14. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]


    I've got to agree with Ed. If IBM wants to go out and build their own IDE framework to release to the world so be it. I looked at it briefly today and it looks promising although it definitely still needs some work. Having worked with VisualAge in the past I can definitely see its influence.

    IBM obviously has different viewpoints on how the development environment should work and I don't think there was any way they were going to make it compatible within the NetBeans component architecture so I would have to say I agree with their decision. Plus, from a political viewpoint I find it hard to believe IBM would throw all of their weight behind NetBeans.

    No one environment works for everyone anyways. In my group alone we have people using TogetherJ/CC, Kawa, NetBeans and I use IDEA 2.0 (switched over from JBuilder recently). It helps to have a number of different approaches available for software development environments.

    -Mike
  15. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Absolutely, theres nothing wrong with competition within the open-source community. let the best come out n win.
  16. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Hi Mike:

    Interesting points! How's IDEA 2.0 going with
    you? what made you swiched from JBuilder to
    IDEA? I try to evaluate all java IDEs.

    Thanks

    Tieu Chu
  17. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]


    Hi Tieu,

    IDEA is working out great for me. My company purchased a license for me the other day after my evaluation period ended. At < $400 it's very reasonable considering what you get. An interesting note about the company is that they're in the Czech Republic vs. being here in the North America or Western Europe.

    For me, the IDEA just worked better. For actual coding ease its "Out of the box" support included wheel mouse support, automatic bracket matching, syntax error highlighting, code completion, automatic import statement insertions, and the way its UI works just seems to be very efficient to me. Also cool was some of the code formatting and code fill-in features.

    In addition, its refactoring and cross referencing features were a big win for me. Being able to say, "show me everywhere in the code I'm using this class, method, etc." and it showing it quickly is awesome. Getting that feature to work proved to be the only tricky part of the application that I think could work a little better.

    Another nice feature is that when I'm inside a JSP and I get to a Java code section it utilizes all of my Java preferences from the normal .java files and still has the code completion, auto import insertion, etc. I may have just missed that feature on other editors but it's very cool when I'm prototyping and need quick interfaces to my code.

    Things it's not: It's not an EJB deployment tool. It's not going to do a lot of XML work for you. It's not a GUI building tool. Luckily, none of these things matter to me. I deploy my EJBs by hand and build them with Ant and the XML work I do, I don't need a fancy XML tool for at this point (it has syntax highlighting which is enough for me). And I know grid bag well so if I need to build a GUI I can do it myself, thank you. :)

    Oh yeah, it has pretty cool Ant support built in as well.

    It's also built in Java and is surprisingly fast. I recommend evaluating it and giving it a try. I was very pleasantly surprised since most small company built editors disappoint me in one way or another.

    JBuilder has a lot of tools that I really wasn't going to use and so I didn't feel like paying for tools I wasn't using. It also didn't have a lot of the above coding features available "out of the box". You could add them on because other people had written modules for it but some were kind of kludgy. And to be honest, Inprise's record of less than stellar support and evaluation pre-sales support really turned me off to them. I gave them multiple chances on multiple occasions and they kept disappointing me.

    -Mike
  18. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Thanks Mike

    Tieu Chu
  19. IBM to open source WebSphere tools[ Go to top ]

    Ok, I'm evaluating the new WSAD tool (Websphere Studio Application Developer) which is one of the new pluggins to the workbench and will also replace Visual Age, and it ROCKS! I'm serious, I'm in love.
    They have what's called prespectives (Web prespective, J2EE prespective, Data prespective...etc) and each one is a certain view of the system that offeres the tools you need at that point. I really can't explain it very well. Just download the beta and take a look. The EJB development tools rocked and the ejb test suite was really easy. I can't belive I didn't have to go anywhere else to start or stop the server, to deploy or to test. Ok, I did find some bugs but I guess it's a beta. I'm still trying to find out if the IDE supports ejb2.0 or not.. Here's the link to the WSAD beta:
    http://www-4.ibm.com/software/webservers/studio/preregister.html

    Sal

  20. Tool is improving!![ Go to top ]

    I feel the tool looks great but many more features to be added!