The Mind Electric Releases GLUE 4.1

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News: The Mind Electric Releases GLUE 4.1

  1. The Mind Electric released version 4.1 of GLUE, a web services platform for Java developers creating, deploying, and managing java-based web services apps. Glue exposes java objects as web services and allows the consumption of web services as though they were local java objects. v4.1 adds support for Soap 1.2, WS-security, WS-routing and more.

    Check out Glue 4.1 and the press release.

    Threaded Messages (37)

  2. Help us Larry[ Go to top ]

    <yawn>

    ... hey, isn't the industry consolidating? What's with these Mom & Pop shops still kicking around?

    ... Hey Mind Electric, it's over... you're not going to take any more market share away from the leaders.

    Best thing to do now is send your resume to Cedric Beust and jump on the bandwagon, OK?
  3. Funny Guy....[ Go to top ]

    Hi Colon,

    Why bother?

    Based on your own reasoning I think it would be more efficient to send it to Larry (Oracle). Thats probably what Cedric is doing this minute thanks to your industry insight. How could we all be so blind?

    Luckily we have people like you who can cut through all the crap.

    Have you ever considered writing a book. I have heard that a well known publisher is looking to capitalize on the success of the book - "The Book of Pooh".

    Even bitter <delib> you could write "Pooh Java", "Pooh EJB", and "Pooh Little WebServices Company". At least the title would be more descriptive of the content.

    The only downside to this is that you could lose your girlfriend (Floyd's recent interview). Could she take this amount of Pooh from you?

    All in the best possible smell.

    regards,

    William
  4. Funny Guy....[ Go to top ]

    Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

    --
    Cedric
    http://beust.com/weblog
  5. Thank you[ Go to top ]

    Attaboy, Cedric....
  6. Glue and IDEA[ Go to top ]

    could someone tell me why glue was removed from IDEA recently
    I think it was rather silently removed after 3.0.2
  7. Glue and IDEA[ Go to top ]

    I'm not sure exactly why the GLUE integration was moved from IDEA after 3.0.2, but we are currently developing a plugin ourselves to add it back. It'll include the previous 'Add Web Reference' feature, but also allow for starting up GLUE Servers and publishing Java objects to those servers, similiar to what the Eclipse plugin currently supports.

    We appreciate the feedback from those on the thread actually talking about GLUE!! :-)

    Harris Reynolds
    The Mind Electric
  8. Glue and IDEA[ Go to top ]

    Harris, if I recall correctly, they mentioned something concerning licensing. I guess, your marketing and development departments need to come up with the unified policy. What is more, developers should know what the current policy is ;)
  9. Help us Larry[ Go to top ]

    Colon,

    can you point out the features of GLUE that bore you so much if you compare them to the "consolidated industry" (I assume you have hands-on experience with Glue and alike that entitles you to this kind of post)?

    And best regards
  10. The boring part[ Go to top ]

    I just don't like how the word "electric" is used in the name of the company. It should be an adjective, but instead it acts as a possessive pronoun. Bleh.
  11. The boring part[ Go to top ]

    I just don't like how the word "electric"<


    Sooooo! that's what it's all about... it's not about GLUE after-all. ;-)
    For sure GLUE has a place in this "cynical" world that we live in. As it is one of the nicest implementation of WS around. If you have monies to shell out go for GLUE, if not then go for AXIS.
  12. Help us Larry[ Go to top ]

    Cher Monsieur Colon,

    I'm glad you started a really an interesting thread.
    I strongly disagree with all those people who look for consolidation. This will probably happen, and we'll all end like the auto industry. Look at the back of a Maxima, Taurus and Neon(last year's model). What differentiates them? Size.
  13. Consolidation = Progress[ Go to top ]

    Consolidation is the only way that computer science can achieve its highest efficiencies. Standards can indeed be followed by more than a few large organizations, but integration techniques that span several layers of the business are hampered by the inclusion of Mom & Pop Shop technologies. This is because the Mom & Pop Shop technologies are driven to profit through the differentiation of their product from the oligopoly, it is the only way that companies like Mind Electric (which sounds like a good name for The Cult's next album) can present a case for the purchase of the product.

    Once ORACLE, BEA, HP, and IBM drum out the competition, we'll have the J2EE space become the official oligopoly of J2EE. Sort of like MicroSoft meets the Baby Bell Breakup of yesteryear.

    The only way to go....
  14. Consolidation = Progress[ Go to top ]

    I wasn't aware that "Mom & Pop" companies couldn't produce products that are standard and integratable. Gee, I guess I'll have to throw out an awful lot of small-company software that's seemed standard, and integrated with larger systems just fine, but I guess that was just me hallucinating again.

    Here's a clue - you don't even have to buy it :-) Most standards, and most especially Java standards, are more than flexible enough to permit a wide range of differentiation without going outside the standard. Or are you under the illusion that when comparing the "big 3" app servers vanilla J2EE support that they are exactly the same?

    Smaller companies are always a good thing in a market, because they can fill niches that the big guys either don't know about, don't care about, or which the big guys can't address because they can't overcome their internal development inertia sufficiently.

         -Mike
  15. Consolidation = Progress[ Go to top ]

    Colon,

    What economic theory leads you to think that consolidation in general leads to efficiencies?

    I assume you actually mean "Economies" as in "economies of size" or "economies of scale." However, the very differentiation that you point out is a Good Thing for both the economy and the industry. It drives better *efficiencies* and innovation.

    Jason McKerr
    Northwest Alliance for Computational Science and Engineering
  16. Consolidation = Progress[ Go to top ]

    Colon,

    >
    > What economic theory leads you to think that consolidation in general leads to efficiencies?
    >

    It's obvious which theory: the one developed by Stalin and Brezhnev in the Soviet Union. Ach, having the choice of driving the only car in the country, that nec plus ultra bleeding edge of technology, the Pobeda!!! And you always knew what parts you needed(it was the only brand in the country, massive consolidation, massive progress)

    I mean, Oracle jams Orion and Tomcat in their "solution" and they call for comoditazation, consolidation, progress(see Pobeda)?
  17. No, you don't have to be a communist to believe in scientific efficiencies in consolidation. And you don't have to call it "economies of scale" either, because I'm not necessarily talking about productivity and production gains. The term I am strictly using is "Scientific Efficiencies" and that is all I am asserting.

    The more players we have that are constantly reinventing the wheel, the more choice that consumers are given. This is a good thing.

    However, the New Economy allows for infinite amount of wheels to be rolled out to the market. This slows down that actual usage of the product since there are so many to choose from. It makes it especially worse when you have Mom & Pop shop (and yes, even the big boys) trying to box you into their product.

    The only solution is to allow the inevitable consolidation of the tech industry market. By doing this, organizations can put the best technology to use and take part in its evolution towards future greatness.

    It's nice that we have companies like Mind Electric and such tossing out niche technologies, but really... do you honestly think that Fortune 1000 is going to invest in a Mom & Pop Shop solution when all of them have already invested trillions in IBM/HP/BEA/MS/ORACLE/SUN? They won't, and that's why they are the Fortune 1000, they know what they're doing.
  18. \Colon\
    The only solution is to allow the inevitable consolidation of the tech industry market. By doing this, organizations can put the best technology to use and take part in its evolution towards future greatness.
    \Colon\

    You seem to be under the mistaken impression that consolidation leads to choices of "the best technology". This isn't necessarily the case - in fact, often it's not the case at all. Consolidation often leads to technology products that are filled with compromises, with a result that the tech looks good to the industry as a whole, but doesn't fit any one company particularly well.

    This is where smaller players can come in.

    \Colon\
    It's nice that we have companies like Mind Electric and such tossing out niche technologies, but really... do you honestly think that Fortune 1000 is going to invest in a Mom & Pop Shop solution when all of them have already invested trillions in IBM/HP/BEA/MS/ORACLE/SUN? They won't, and that's why they are the Fortune 1000, they know what they're doing.
    \Colon\

    I have worked for several Fortune 500 companies, and they have a tendency to use what gets the job done for them. They will inevitably have licenses for something like a big app server, but at the same time, they're also going to have licenses for "little" products that happened to neatly solve a problem for a given department somewhere in the corporate bureacracy. The issue here is that "big" solutions aren't always the best solutions, and some managers are smart enough to figure that out (even if corporate IT hasn't).

    I'm actually rather surprised at your attitude - you seem to be implying that corporations act consistently and in unison across all departments when it comes to tech decisions. _They do not_.

         -Mike
  19. Yes they do[ Go to top ]

    Yes, they do... or more precisely.... they *can*. Technology has come to the point now where integration under one umbrella is possible. See CRP and ERP implementations for proof.

    I'm not advocating the usage of only one vendor. I just see it as kind of hopeless for Mind Electric to be selling Web Services. That's like me parking a hamburger stand next to McDonald's and Wendy's.
  20. Yes they do[ Go to top ]

    I'm not advocating the usage of only one vendor. I just see it as kind of hopeless for Mind Electric to be selling Web Services. That's like me parking a hamburger stand next to McDonald's and Wendy's.


    Excellent comparison. Just saw a guy on Bank St., in front of McD's , with a mobile stand, selling fries and sausages(still same food genre, still apples compared to apples). He has more customers than the BigMac company. No advertising. Very low costs. Way better quality and taste.
    This is the Mind Electric. No, I'm wrong, Graham and Co. sell confit de canard with a glass of Chateau Lafitte, cheaper than a Happy Meal.
    Bon apetit on your double Big Mac, extra large Coke and fries. Consolidate your leggs, you'll need them.
  21. Yes they do[ Go to top ]

    Dude, you have obviously never been to the "In and Out Burger."

    And it seems to me that Glue, Blue Titan, and some others are doing pretty damn well (along with Axis from Apache).

    Jason
  22. Yah,[ Go to top ]

    Yes, we all read "Fast Food Nation"... if you believe that garbage, I have a web services tool to sell you....
  23. Yes they do[ Go to top ]

    \Colon\
    Yes, they do... or more precisely.... they *can*. Technology has come to the point now where integration under one umbrella is possible. See CRP and ERP implementations for proof.
    \Colon\

    Actually, in my experience you've provided a counter example to your own argument. _Really_ look at ERP implementations, and you'll find hopelessly mangled code, time overruns measured in years, and budget over runs measured in tens of millions of dollars. Some companies have actually reported ERP overruns on their SEC filings because they took _that_ big of a hit.

    ERP is a perfect example of a big integrated, consolidated technology that looks great on paper, seems good to the industry - but has so many compromises and cross-connections that it's hell to actually use by any one company.

    \Colon\
    I'm not advocating the usage of only one vendor. I just see it as kind of hopeless for Mind Electric to be selling Web Services. That's like me parking a hamburger stand next to McDonald's and Wendy's.
    \Colon\

    And yet, hamburger stands still exist. And profit.

        -Mike
  24. Endless[ Go to top ]

    We could argue endlessly.

    All I'm saying is that:

       (a) Most budget overruns experienced by companies using ERP/CRM/Oligopoly Software are because of a labor force of drastically inferior intelligence in charge of implementing the software. Don't forget, in the last three years we've seen good qualified IT people become replaced by 6 other people who may not be as smart, but heck, they'll work for $5000/year. This disturbing trend has been causing waste in IT. It is not the fault of the software company that stupid people are being hired by companies.

       (b) Companies like Mind Electric are fine and dandy. Occassionally, I will buy the hotdog from the street vendor. Just so long as the street vendor isn't looking to nationally franchise his stand, I won't complain. But the minute that the street vendor gets some ambition, it's the same old same old dog eat dog, then we waste 5 years competing with each other. And for what? Just to have the winner come out having wasted the time trying to "out-market" the competition. As a result, everyone's lost money and time, and it's an inhibitor to innovation.

    Blah.
  25. Endless[ Go to top ]

    \Colon\
    (a) Most budget overruns experienced by companies using ERP/CRM/Oligopoly Software are because of a labor force of drastically inferior intelligence in charge of implementing the software.
    \Colon\

    I wasn't sure before, but now I am. You really don't have idea of what you're talking about, do you? You don't install an ERP package and "presto chango" it works. They always require massive customization, and despite the fact they need customization _by design_, they also happen to be very difficult to customize well.

    Go study a real ERP implementation some time before commenting on it.

    \Colon\
    Don't forget, in the last three years we've seen good qualified IT people become replaced by 6 other people who may not be as smart, but heck, they'll work for $5000/year. This disturbing trend has been causing waste in IT. It is not the fault of the software company that stupid people are being hired by companies.
    \Colon\

    Ah. SAP and Peoplesoft are shining gold examples of software engineering, paragons of integration, it's just the stupid programmers who don't know how to use it right.

    \Colon\
       (b) Companies like Mind Electric are fine and dandy. Occassionally, I will buy the hotdog from the street vendor. Just so long as the street vendor isn't looking to nationally franchise his stand, I won't complain. But the minute that the street vendor gets some ambition, it's the same old same old dog eat dog, then we waste 5 years competing with each other. And for what? Just to have the winner come out having wasted the time trying to "out-market" the competition. As a result, everyone's lost money and time, and it's an inhibitor to innovation.
    \Colon\

    There is some waste. But it's also a proven model for innovation. With little or no market pressure, companies _always_ stagnate and stop innovating. It's when they get pressured (often by someone who started out as a "Mom & Pop") and their bottom line gets squeezed that they get off their butts and realize they have to work for their money.

    Using your analogy - if some guy can take a hot dog street vending business and force the big chains to compete with him, then the hot dog guy is onto something, and obviously the big chains were asleep at the wheel. The end result, no matter who wins the corporate battle, is that customers will be better off in the long run.

    Indeed - if we all followed _your_ model, we wouldn't be talking here, because computers would be warehouse size, running at 2MHz, and be affordable only by the top 20 compaoies in the world. You're able to post here because of the annoying mom and pop shops which forced competitions.

    Lets go back 30 years or so....

    "Who would buy one of these toys from this little upstart 'Digital Equipment Corporation' anyway? Our IBM big iron runs just fine thank you. Man, do I feel sorry for all those fools buying this 'mini-computer' thing. Any idiot knows you won't get fired for going big blue... And that crazy intel company - we all know PDP-11's are toys, but _microprocessors_ and _microcomputers? Give me a freakin' break!!!! These cheap mom and pop shops are going to ruin the standardization and consolidation that IBM's given us over the years"

         -Mike
  26. Typical[ Go to top ]

    I know that people like you get offended when we point out the problems with "the little guy".

    But there you go, it is what it is. I'm not going to bother getting into a big spat over you regarding what "I know" and what "I don't know". But I have definitely put myself in a position where I can comment on ERP/CRM implementations.

    Yes, they are long and require hard work to implement, but none of them should require more than 18-24 months to complete. I have personally worked on two ERP implemenations (ORACLE Financials and Siebel), and it took us about 2 years. And not because of the technology, but because we had complete and utter morons handling the business requirements and the technology. That's why expensive consultants like myself are still in business, because at some point, companies realize that the 10 or so programmers that they have working for them could not write or speak properly to save their lives, and they couldn't program their way out of a Commodore 64. So they call me, pay me 10 times what those cheap ingrates are making, and both parties walk away happy since I save them years of confusing frustration.

    The reason you hear about crap like the state of Connecticut suing ORACLE to block the PeopleSoft acquisition is exactly my point: Most employees working for a cushy government job spend their day stalling and web surfing. They don't know how to do an honest day's work with an honest product. But they sure as hell know how to put together a little toy like Mind Electric!! That's easy and it makes us look smart, let's start bashing the big corporations!!

    You know that many people agree with my points. Stop trying to get all liberal and hippie on me... it's the truth.
  27. Typical[ Go to top ]

    \Colon\
    Yes, they are long and require hard work to implement, but none of them should require more than 18-24 months to complete. I have personally worked on two ERP implemenations (ORACLE Financials and Siebel), and it took us about 2 years. And not because of the technology, but because we had complete and utter morons handling the business requirements and the technology.
    \Colon\

    Shouldn't be more than 1 1/2 to 2 years, huh? Wow, that's almost like tomorrow.

    In the meanwhile, in that amount of time, how many useful applications could have been created? And how much _less_ money would be spent on those useful applications than on a boondoggle like any of the current ERP suites?

    If you've worked on Oracle or Siebel or SAP, then you should be in a position to know that, despite the fact that they come from giant software companies, the internals are all crap. And no matter how good a programmer you are, mods take "18 to 24 months", as you said. That's _eternity_ in software development these days.

    \Colon\
    That's why expensive consultants like myself are still in business, because at some point, companies realize that the 10 or so programmers that they have working for them could not write or speak properly to save their lives, and they couldn't program their way out of a Commodore 64. So they call me, pay me 10 times what those cheap ingrates are making, and both parties walk away happy since I save them years of confusing frustration.
    \Colon\

    There _are_ a surprising number of sub-par developers out there. However, you are also wildly overstating the case. In 14 years of development, I've never worked anywhere where all the development staff were bad. Usually they're a minority, with a lot of mediocre people (not good, not bad), and almost always at least one good person.

    In any case, even with your great genius and extravagant pay, you still spent 24 months on one ERP project? You wanna know what the _average_ developer accomplishes in 24 months? I'll give you a hint: it's a helluva lot more than one project.

    \Colon\
    The reason you hear about crap like the state of Connecticut suing ORACLE to block the PeopleSoft acquisition is exactly my point: Most employees working for a cushy government job spend their day stalling and web surfing. They don't know how to do an honest day's work with an honest product. But they sure as hell know how to put together a little toy like Mind Electric!! That's easy and it makes us look smart, let's start bashing the big corporations!!
    \Colon\

    First of all, I'm not talking about one or two incidents. There are many documented cases of ERP companies sucking customers dry on licenses and implementation costs. The products you seem to love so well have literally gutted companies. And the fault is not always the staffers at the poor companies - the fault also lies squarely on poorly implemented, highly proprietary, and plain huge software like SAP and Oracle fin and Siebel.

    \Colon\
    You know that many people agree with my points. Stop trying to get all liberal and hippie on me... it's the truth.
    \Colon\

    Advocating the avoidance of over-consolidation is hardly a "hippie" notion. It's common sense. You've got a nice gravvy train going on, sucking money out of unfortunately companies that make the mistake of investing tens of millions of dollars in a single "integrated" software product. I don't make money locking customers into losing propositions. I make it building real apps in a reasonable time frame and proven ROI (positive ROI, that is, not the monstrously negative ROI most firms see from "consolidated" ERP solutions).

    I can see where you would denigrate smaller products - it must be galling to see someone solve a problem in a tenth of the time and a twentieth of the dollar cost as your own techniques require. I'd be tearing my hair out if I sold a customer on a 2 year, 20 million dollar project, and then they found someone doing something that will actually help their business for 200 grand in a few months.

        -Mike
  28. Ying yang[ Go to top ]

    You have very low wealth, don't you Mike?

    Ah, the price of defendin' the peoples! Nobody's good, nobody's bad.. everything's subjective!

    Whatever. All I know is that my way works for me and the people I have worked for the last 5 years during this consolidating period.

    Thanks for your input though, it's nice to know that there will be people like you ready to go down with the ship! More room on the lifeboat for those of us who know.
  29. Ying yang[ Go to top ]

    \Colon\
    You have very low wealth, don't you Mike?

    Ah, the price of defendin' the peoples! Nobody's good, nobody's bad.. everythin
    \Colon\

    Actually, I'm a high level software consultant in NYC. In the finance industry. You figure out how that may translate into "wealth".

    \Colon\
    Whatever. All I know is that my way works for me and the people I have worked for the last 5 years during this consolidating period.

    Thanks for your input though, it's nice to know that there will be people like you ready to go down with the ship! More room on the lifeboat for those of us who know.
    \Colon\

    Ah, the "whatever, all I know...". The time honored tradition going back to the beginnings of Usenet, which always translates to "I have no counter argument to speak of, so I'd better change the subject fast!!!".

    Out of curiosity, Colon, what're you going to do when enough companies see through the ERP scam? Go into the real estate business in swampier areas of Florida?

        -Mike


        -Mike
  30. Nah[ Go to top ]

    Naw, I'll probably spend the rest of my life playing golf.
  31. When was the last time Word really improved in functionality? AFAIK Wordperfect and AmiPro were still competing with it. I think that now MS regrets "consolidating" the wordprocessing market, they cannot invent so much anymore.

    And I just cannot grasp this concept, efficient computer science. If you meant efficient computer industry, than OK(even if I think it sounds so 18th century).
  32. GLUE is a very nice SOAP toolkit. In my opinion GLUE is superior over everything else out there because either publishing or consuming a soap service requires no stub generation at deployment. GLUE handles everything through dynamic proxies so one can skip using wsdl2java and java2wsdl altogether if one so desires.

    Of course it also offers the ability to pre-generate java stubs for better static type checking. In terms of being a Java-friendly API The Mind Electric really have it nailed with GLUE.
  33. Can use Apache wsif on glue?
  34. Can use Apache wsif on glue?[ Go to top ]

    Hi Andy,

    Yes! The WSIF toolkit includes numerous samples that use the Stock Checker web service, which is running on Glue at Xmethods.com.

    BTW, I've had problems connecting to that same service with WSIF's DynamicInvoker sample. I'm tending to think it's a problem with either my configuration, or a problem with DynamicInvoker. Let me know if you see the same problem...

    Cheers,
    Frank

    p.s. all, the Glue/Eclipse combination is a very nice solution to rapid prototyping of webservices (e.g., go from creating a java class to starting a glue server to deploying your service in less than 5 minutes).
  35. Hello Frank[ Go to top ]

    to Frank:
      Thank you very much.
      I had using Axis all the time in the past,I have just begun to use Glue too.
    Glue is not opensource.
  36. Hello Frank[ Go to top ]

    Hello Frank:
      My msn is:beangoo at msn dot com,we can talk more about WSIF.
    Regards
  37. Can use Apache wsif on glue?[ Go to top ]

    If you're on glue you can use everything, ay :)
  38. I develop a opensource projects, Can use glue?