Home

News: JCP Election results posted

  1. JCP Election results posted (41 messages)

    The JCP has elected 4 new members to their Standard/Enterprise Edition Executive Committee and the Micro Edition Executive Committee. The elections, hosted by PricewaterhouseCoopers, serve to form the executive committee. This committee is responsible for guiding the evolution of Java technologies. The elections are staggered so that 5 of the 15 seats are up for ratification/election each year. Full results are available at the JCP election site.

    Threaded Messages (41)

  2. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations, Hani!!!
  3. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    I guess that means no bile on the JCP...
  4. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    I guess that means no bile on the JCP...

    Are you kidding me? I expect this will mean REGULAR bile on the JCP. Remember: "write what you know"
  5. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Congratulations Hani !! Keep it up.
  6. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    So next time around the text will read "The top two asshats have been elected and will serve for the next three years" ? :)
  7. The Joan Rivers of Java[ Go to top ]

    Electing Hani is like the Academy Awards making Joan Rivers a judge.
  8. Thanks[ Go to top ]

    Thank you for all the congrats!

    As for you Bill Berk, anyone else saying that would actually be considered humorous, coming from you though it's merely sad, pathetic, and laughable. Still, I'd rather be the Joan Rivers of Java that the Ken from 'A Fish Called Wanda' of conferences, or the Bill Oreilly of TSS, you intellectual giant you.
  9. Recount[ Go to top ]

    Thank you for all the congrats!As for you Bill Berk, anyone else saying that would actually be considered humorous, coming from you though it's merely sad, pathetic, and laughable. Still, I'd rather be the Joan Rivers of Java that the Ken from 'A Fish Called Wanda' of conferences, or the Bill Oreilly of TSS, you intellectual giant you.
    Maybe Bill Berk will be asking for a recount of the votes ? I believe his brother, Jeb Berk, would be qualified for figuring out what the actual results are.
  10. Recount[ Go to top ]

    Maybe Bill Berk will be asking for a recount of the votes ? I believe his brother, Jeb Berk, would be qualified for figuring out what the actual results are.

    JEB BERK 2008!!!
  11. Thanks[ Go to top ]

    Thank you for all the congrats!As for you Bill Berk, anyone else saying that would actually be considered humorous, coming from you though it's merely sad, pathetic, and laughable. Still, I'd rather be the Joan Rivers of Java that the Ken from 'A Fish Called Wanda' of conferences, or the Bill Oreilly of TSS, you intellectual giant you.

    I guess whether or not ridicule is humerous is a matter of perspective, especially if you are the focal point of that bile. Its just sad that somebody can be elected to such an important body as the JCP EC who has won this popularity contest by making a name for himself on the ridicule of others.

    BTW, Ken is even funnier than "Berk's Breastmilk", maybe the EC *does* need a class clown.
  12. Thanks[ Go to top ]

    ... somebody can be elected to such an important body as the JCP EC ...


    You think JCP is important? Now that is news to me. I think we should have "Bozzo the Clown" in charge of EC.
    EJB + JSF + Portlets + CMS Api are all from JCP right? I should use that on my project. Design by Vendor Politics.
    What about that EJB Linda lady, is she EC?
    Lets have JCP make a AdventureStore blueprints using above and we can all duplicate it.
    Are there any projects using the full J2EE stack above and made it to production? Or the top 3: EJB + JSF + Portlets. Url?

    Drupal, vBulletin, Zope, iBatis, Struts, Ajax, JDNC are not. So ... avoid them! They are not the spec, and tech spec is more important than bus. requirements.

    Anyway, Hani belongs. I hope he farts during meetings.

    Consider giving up on ORM Bill.

    .V
  13. "Spec this!" (was: Thanks)[ Go to top ]

    Vic,

    Of all the posts you've ever made, this is my favorite. :-)

    Perhaps now that Hani will be tied up with the Java Counterproductive Process, you can take care of the Bile Blog for him. :-)

    This is one area where you and I agree for sure.

    Specifications have hurt Java more than they've helped. Is it any wonder that NONE of the most popular frameworks conform to any sort of specification? And what's a Java standard anyway? None of it is standard JCP/JSR or not. Any CIO looking to build an application on JCP/JSR "standards" is on glue. Java itself is not a standard!!!

    Where's the Tylenol?

    Cheers,
    Clinton

    BTW: Congrats Hani. I hope you tear it up in there!
  14. "Spec this!" (was: Thanks)[ Go to top ]

    Cliton, what makes you say that non of the popular frameworks use specs? The relationship between grassroots type frameworks and JSR proposals is pretty synergistic, I'd say. Some examples:

    The servlet spec is a victim of its own success. It's impossible to find any web stuff that doesn't conform to this spec. JSP is the same.

    Hibernate and toplink (and even JDO) resulted in EJB3, which will (pretty safe bet) become the standard persistence solution, instead of the current proprietory API's that hibernate/toplink offer. The differentiator will no longer be the API, it'll be the extra vendor-add features on top of the baseline.

    Without EE, there'd be no Spring. Spring's value-add is that it piggybacks on top of Java EE and makes the easy stuff easy, and the hard stuff less painful.

    The Java ME platform is also a wild success (again, JSR driven).

    Obviously, there are plenty of failures. Funnily enough, some of these are also due to the selfsafe 'community driven' crap that TSS OSS whores like to beat their chests about. JDOM and Groovy are great examples of failed JSRs.

    Maybe we're part of different communities, and I don't know any CIO (and for someone to have that title, they're far far from being a one man and his dog type shop) who DON'T have a Java EE strategy, and who don't care about specs.

    Formalised specs are the only way that you can achieve any measure of continuity or stability. It's not exciting, it's not good for the ADD types who want a new shiny object to bat at every other minute, and it certain is not glamorous sexy work, but it's how real companies function.
  15. "Spec this!" (was: Thanks)[ Go to top ]

    Groovy and JDOM didn't have any support from the vendors in the JCP except for one or two Sun engineers who helped James Strachan with a grammar. I worked on the Groovy project for a little while and I followed its progress closely. Did Groovy fail the JCP or did the JCP fail Groovy?

    And who from the JCP's vendor members got behind JDOM and fostered its implementation and marketing? It's a great API and I've not seen anything better for XML parsing coming from the JCP. It seems to me that a JSR may get approval easily, but get effectively killed later by the same JCP that fails to follow through on its realization, intentionally or not.

    I have also seen the inside of the JSR process on a few specs because I worked for a vendor and was involved as a member of a JSR (ECperf) or an observer (Servlets and JSP). It *is* a very political and economically driven process as is any process involving human beings, competition and communication. The best thing for the JCP would be to open up to more of a democratic voting process on the specs, involving not just the oligarchy of the JCP, but the community of self-selecting programmers in the Java development community.
  16. "Spec this!" (was: Thanks)[ Go to top ]

    what makes you say that non of the popular frameworks use specs?

    I didn't say that at all. I said they don't conform to specs, and in fact they make a point of not conforming to them because in general the specs are poor.
    Hibernate and toplink (and even JDO) resulted in EJB3

    EJB3 will offer nothing but a false sense of security to clueless CIOs and Architects. The truth will be (using Hibernate as an example):

     * It's still Hibernate
     * It's still open source
     * Without a spec, it kicked the tar out of competing products that did conform to the spec.
     * It will be worse off for having to conform to a spec.

    Furthermore, EJB3 isn't even EJB. It's something entirely new, with few ties back to its predecessors. It's so different that they'd have been better off calling it something else entirely. Not only that, but the term "EJB" carries a lot of negative baggage with it. So even from a marketing perspective, it would have made more sense to call it something else entirely.

    But then we start to talk about Sun's inability to sell a dingy to a drowning man. So of course it's called EJB. (I figure the dingy they'd pitch to the poor sap would be appropriately branded "Certain Death").
    Without EE, there'd be no Spring.

    I disagree. Spring isn't about JEE. It's about bringing together the stuff that works, to make it easier to use, easier to test and less painful to change...standard or not. For example, Spring supports Velocity as well as JSP. One's a standard, the other is not.
    Formalised specs are the only way that you can achieve any measure of continuity or stability...but it's how real companies function.

    Enough people disagree with you that more than 50% of our industry is run on non-standard Microsoft platforms. Oh, but then again, C# is a standard. But does the fact that C# conforms to an ECMA standard make you feel any better about using it? Why would you use non-standard Java, when real companies function on standards?

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  17. Java Persistence API[ Go to top ]

    Furthermore, EJB3 isn't even EJB. It's something entirely new, with few ties back to its predecessors. It's so different that they'd have been better off calling it something else entirely.

    The most important distinction to make here is between the new Java Persistence API (JPA 1.0, also known as "EJB3 persistence"), living in the "javax.persistence" package, and the EJB Simplified API (the actual EJB 3.0), living in the revamped "javax.ejb" package.

    The single biggest confusion with respect to EJB3 is that everyone says "EJB3", not clarifying which of those two separate things is meant. It would help a lot if we called those things by their actual name rather than blurring everything into the "EJB3" marketing brand.

    Juergen
  18. Java Persistence API[ Go to top ]

    called those things by their actual name rather than blurring everything into the "EJB3" marketing brand.Juergen

    Agreed. The biggest threat to Java these days has nothing to do with technology. It has to do with branding and the association of Java with Sun.

    Sun has realized that the "Sun" brand holds less value than the "Java" brand, which is why they're tacking it on to everything...and why they're threatening the very communities that support them, simply for using the word "Java" in their URLs and titles.

    Similarly, Sun's fetish with the EJB word is a significant threat to enterprise Java, because for the last 5 years, EJB has been synonymous with: slow, complex, bloated, expensive and even vendor specific.

    Java should belong to the community. "EJB" should be blocked by inappropriate language filters.

    Cheers,
    Clinton
  19. Hani Suleiman is a Jordanian "Unclear Expression".

    He is a dog who barked, barked, and barked (on his blog) for a long time; so, finally, the Master (Sun Microsystems) had a benevolence for him and let him in.

    Sun's smart move: Whenever the dog barks in JCP, he will have to support his barking with very constructive work (Good for Sun hereafter). Conversely, his "empty vessel barking" will soon confirm that Suleiman is thrown away indelibly (again Good for Sun, and good for the community).

    His own blogging helped Hani Suleiman - a Jordanian "Unclear Expression" - get elected at JCP.

    Good work, Sun!
  20. Hani Suleiman is a Jordanian "Unclear Expression". He is a dog who barked, barked, and barked (on his blog) for a long time; so, finally, the Master (Sun Microsystems) had a benevolence for him and let him in. Sun's smart move: Whenever the dog barks in JCP, he will have to support his barking with very constructive work (Good for Sun hereafter). Conversely, his "empty vessel barking" will soon confirm that Suleiman is thrown away indelibly (again Good for Sun, and good for the community). His own blogging helped Hani Suleiman - a Jordanian "Unclear Expression" - get elected at JCP. Good work, Sun!

    Just in case you're not joking (if you are, you have a very dry sense of humor), the JCP is a democracy. There is no Sun conspiracy. I guarantee they don't give a crap about the Bile Blog. Sun gets one vote. You can join and cancel it out if you like.
  21. Err[ Go to top ]

    Couple of replies. First for the guy two posts up who should win an award for one of the most incoherent and nonsensical posts for a while. I'm not Jordanian, for the record.

    To Scott, the JCP allows for just as much individual participation as corporate. Sure, corporations can 'buy in' by paying huge licensing fees, but an individual can prove that they're skilled and able enough and get into pretty any JSR. I dare you to find a JSR that does not have individuals who made it on due to merit alone.

    JDOM and Groovy both had some corporate interest, but they were billed as 'community' driven, and you're in that without economic incentive, things got nowhere. That's not the fault of the process, it's the fault of the individuals who made up the Expert Groups. All they've shown is that corporations can deliver, and 'communities' cannot, because there's no real incentive.

    I do agree that there need to be more individuals involved, but I certainly hope it never becomes a majority of individuals. Java is simply too big to be subject to the whims of a bunch of guys, and corporations quite rightly should have a big say in its future direction.

    As for the whole thing being a fix, it's rather dissapointing to hear that sort of thing. Of course, I'm a potty mouthed nasty little ingrate on my blog, but hey, what DID you expect from 'bileblog'? Voting is very democratic on the JCP, from what I can gather, and if all the dectractors felt strongly enough, maybe they should have joined the JCP and made sure everyone but me got votes.

    Clinton, your comments are surprising in their lack of insight. EJB3, as well as having great marketing, lends legitimacy to Hibernate in many circles. You might not see this from all the loudmouths on blogs and TSS, but products like kodo and toplink are often viewed as an upgrade for customers of hibernate. This is not to detract from hibernate, which is an excellent product. All three have guided and driven the EJB3 (persistence) process, and all three feel equally invested in it. There's something a little bit surreal in seeing hibernate users cussing EJB3 persistence while hibernate developers advocate and recommend it.

    As for Spring working without Java EE. How many deployments of Spring are there that do not use EE? Most people use it as an extra layer for persistence, transactions, jdbc, messaging, and web APIs, every single one of which are EE API's. Sure, it shields the ignorant and allows them to follow your approach of pretending they're too snobby and clever to use EE, when the reality is that you're just relying on someone else to figure out the hard stuff and let you live in your happy little ignorant bubble.

    As for the Microsoft camp, that's not my concern and I was not referring to them. The JCP standards process is concerned with Java technologies, not the entire landscape of modern day IT.

    Finally to Juergen, hurry up and release an implementation of the non-persistence bits of EJB3 so you can also start bragging of how great EJB3 is (since, after all, your product would be a way to use it!)
  22. Suleiman - dead one?[ Go to top ]

    Hey Suleiman, you appear dead (or more calmed down) in your reply to us.

    Bring on your usual fire! Never appear dead. Again, what happened to your usual flare??

    Hani Suleiman is a techie Osama Bin Laden. I protest against the alleged democratic process at the JCP. The JCP election process is so small - no body yet knows what goes on there.

    For the small JCP election process, it's no wonder that bin Ladens get selected over Goslings. Suleiman's own blog helped him for now.
  23. Suleiman - dead one?[ Go to top ]

    Hey Suleiman, you appear dead (or more calmed down) in your reply to us.Bring on your usual fire! Never appear dead. Again, what happened to your usual flare??Hani Suleiman is a techie Osama Bin Laden. I protest against the alleged democratic process at the JCP. The JCP election process is so small - no body yet knows what goes on there.For the small JCP election process, it's no wonder that bin Ladens get selected over Goslings. Suleiman's own blog helped him for now.

    Is that you, Bill Burke? ;)
  24. Not Bill Burke, Not JBoss.[ Go to top ]

    Moron, you Bob Lee.

    Bill Burke or JBoss has nothing to do with "my" post. Ask Joe Ottinger, and he will the IP addresses are different.

    Moron, you Bob Lee.

    Do not divert attention away from the main subject.
  25. I've good sense of humor - not any "very dry sense of humor". You are stupid, Bob Lee. Save your American S*H*I*T to yourself, taste it yourself, but don't give us any of it.
     
    BTW, His own blogging helped Hani Suleiman - a Jordanian "Unclear Expression" - get elected at JCP. Until we see Suleiman gets fired, we shall live with this fact.

    Bob Lee - did you email Suleiman today about my message here? Just in case you did, you have a very vivid sense of insecurity feeling. You grow up.

    Foolish Bob Lee Serving another Foolish - that is, Suleiman.
  26. taste it yourself

    First, you're gross.
    a Jordanian "Unclear Expression"

    Second, what does that even mean?
  27. No, First, you're gross, you Bob Lee.

    Hani Suleiman knows about "Unclear Expression". Perform your foot fetish with Suleiman, and then ask him. He will tell you in private.

    For the rest of us sensible who already know, "Unclear Expression" means undecided.
  28. "Spec this!" (was: Thanks)[ Go to top ]

    Specifications have hurt Java more than they've helped. Is it any wonder that NONE of the most popular frameworks conform to any sort of specification? And what's a Java standard anyway?

    Do you mean that Java would have been better if there aren't any spesification made? ;-)

    Hmm, so how about JSP, Servlet, etc. Do you think it is not a standard or do you think it is not popular ;-)
  29. Thanks[ Go to top ]

    You think JCP is important? Now that is news to me.


    Do you mean to say that JCP is not important? This is a news for me too. Seriously...
    I think we should have "Bozzo the Clown" in charge of EC. EJB + JSF + Portlets + CMS Api are all from JCP right? I should use that on my project. Are there any projects using the full J2EE stack above and made it to production?

    Really. Who tell you that you must use ALL things from JCP... I think maybe you'll be the first one to use the whole spesification JCP ever made for a single project ;-)
  30. RE: Thanks[ Go to top ]

    Thank you for all the congrats!As for you Bill Berk, anyone else saying that would actually be considered humorous, coming from you though it's merely sad, pathetic, and laughable. Still, I'd rather be the Joan Rivers of Java that the Ken from 'A Fish Called Wanda' of conferences, or the Bill Oreilly of TSS, you intellectual giant you.
    I guess whether or not ridicule is humerous is a matter of perspective, especially if you are the focal point of that bile. Its just sad that somebody can be elected to such an important body as the JCP EC who has won this popularity contest by making a name for himself on the ridicule of others.BTW, Ken is even funnier than "Berk's Breastmilk", maybe the EC *does* need a class clown.

    A smart way to stop the redicule by voting him in.
  31. Thanks[ Go to top ]

    Its just sad that somebody can be elected to such an important body as the JCP EC who has won this popularity contest by making a name for himself on the ridicule of others.

    I know a lot of highly respected members who voted for Hani, and I can tell you it had nothing to do with his blog (it is pretty funny though). Congrats, Hani.
  32. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Way to go Fate! This is a real victory for the individual as well.
  33. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Hani,

    Congratulations on your recent victory. You came in second! Holy crap! I read your JCP bio. I did not realize how involved you were with the JCP. This must keep you pretty busy.

    Here is Hani's JCP bio:
    Suleiman, Hani

    A keen and passionate Java developer since 1998, I have always been deeply involved in all aspects of the language and industry. I am a regular contributor to a number of open source projects, and also serve as the lead developer/maintainer for some. Furthermore, I serve on the steering committee for the OpenSymphony group; an umbrella organization providing a number of quality open source solutions such as WebWork, OSCache, Sitemesh, and OSWOrkflow.

    I am also greatly interested in the industry and its trends and evolution, and this interest manifests itself in a lively and often controversial blog addressing all aspects of the language. I also serve on a number of JCP Expert Groups, including JSR-220, JSR-244, JSR-245, JSR-250, and JSR-277.

    I believe that my passion and independent viewpoint will prove to be valuable assets to the Executive Committee, and a healthy counterpoint to all the corporate representation dominant on the EC.

    So what does an EC member do? Do you vote on new JSRs?

    BTW I agree that the JCP could use some independent voices from the Java community.

    It seems there were six individuals elected.

    http://www.jcpelection2005.org/jcp/election_results


    Intel Corp. 31.4%
    Suleiman, Hani 22.3%
    IONA Technologies PLC 21.3%
    EMC Corporation 12.8%
    Bajwa, Awais 3.2%
    Anne, Srinivas 3%
    Meffert, Klaus 2%
    Sirf Technology Holdings, Inc 1.7%
    Patel, Mihir 1%
    Acharya, Praveen S. 1%
  34. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Only 4 members were elected. Read the results page.

    Hani was voted in to the Standard/Enterprise committee, along with Intel Corp. Two new (corporate) members were also added to the Java ME committee).

    Isn't it a bit strange, a bit unblanced and maybe deceptive, that an individual known primarily for his foul-mouthed blog (note the surprise of one poster on TSS who had no idea Hani was already involved in so many JSRs) is elected as an ostensible representative of the Java development community along with a giant corporation like Intel? It almost seems like a fix of some kind.
  35. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    Isn't it a bit strange, a bit unblanced and maybe deceptive, that an individual known primarily for his foul-mouthed blog (note the surprise of one poster on TSS who had no idea Hani was already involved in so many JSRs) is elected as an ostensible representative of the Java development community along with a giant corporation like Intel?
    It's not surprising to everyone who's already involved in the JCP and has had the opportunity to read Hani's participation to many discussions.

    To be part of the JCP, you need two things: expertise and ability to argue in articulate manner and be able to compromise with people who disagree with you, and Hani has shown his skills in these areas numerous times.

    There is a lot more to him than just his blog.

    --
    Cedric
  36. JCP Election results posted[ Go to top ]

    It seems there were six individuals elected.

    Rick, those are all of the results. Only the first two, Hani and Intel, won. This makes Hani one of only two individual members on the EC, the other being Doug Lea.
  37. The "Java Platform" is one American beauty. She is so very beautiful (even with the proposed Mustang) so far!!

    But, with Hani Suleiman, the Java beauty is now at the hands of a malicious rapist.

    For as long as I am forced to see Suleiman at the JCP, I am *not* going to code in Java. I now give up on Java. I am instead going to write code in C# language starting Nov 15, 2005 (until this negative Suleiman goes down). That's my plan.

    If Suleiman's blog are bubbly occasional fireworks of the negative energy inside him, then I call for some Mega Earthquakes or eruptions of large volcanoes of positive feelings that will put their foot on Suleiman's head, and crush him down into earth.

    From now on, I will be watching Suleiman very closely. If I see that Suleiman's polluted dirty minds disturb the curvy beautiful balance of the Java platform in any slightest way, I will be full force.

    Suleiman has seen the free side of the wheel so far - now time ticks on for the responsible side.

    For now, everyone should give up on Java, embrace C# (or alternatives). Kirk Pepperdine has given this sad news.
  38. For as long as I am forced to see Suleiman at the JCP, I am *not* going to code in Java.

    Good riddance.
  39. You're naive too, Bob Lee.

    Keep yourself away from all this. Go, have the breast milk.
  40. For as long as I am forced to see Suleiman at the JCP, I am *not* going to code in Java.

    But you are, appearently, still going to post in Java-communities like TSS. *sigh*
  41. JCP: Suck Hani's juices, run him dry, & throw him away eventually.
  42. Congratulation Hani[ Go to top ]

    Congratulation Hani.
    Best wishes for you.
    Hani, can i have your contact information?