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Messages: 27
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Eclipse Web Tools Project 1.0RC1 released
The Eclipse Web Tools Project has released its first 1.0 release candidate for download. WTP extends Eclipse by offering features for JSP, CSS, Javascript, WSDL, XML, SQL editors and more, including things like J2EE natures for projects, web service tools for development and testing, and more.
JSF capabilities are scheduled to be added in WTP 1.5.
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Message #192838
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I'm very disappointed...
I'm very, very disappointed. The RC1 doesn't work with JBoss 4, has no support for any framework, has no wizard for EJB without XDoclet, has bug to create WebService.
I love Eclipse. In my opinion it's the best IDE for Java SE. But I need tools for Java EE.
I'll study the migration of my project to NetBeans 5 that has evolved fastter than Eclipse at Java EE, and has support for Struts, JSF, JBoss 4 and others things.
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Message #192840
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I'm very disappointed...
So do I.
I've been working only with EE projects and for two years, I've never seen anything really productive free-opensource IDE as NetBeans is for EE development.
Looks like Eclipse is starting to loose it's space in the market.
Oh well...
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Message #192844
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I'm very disappointed...
So do I.I've been working only with EE projects and for two years, I've never seen anything really productive free-opensource IDE as NetBeans is for EE development.Looks like Eclipse is starting to loose it's space in the market.Oh well...
Sorry die-hard eclipse guys, but I third this expirence. WTP was a bit of a let down for me. I was using myeclipseide for a while to make up the difference, but why bother when Netbeans has it all nicely integrated. I like both IDE's, but for EE development Netbeans is my first choice of the open source IDEs.
A funny twist on things I do think that WTP has a powerful makup editor and I do use it to edit .rhtml files when I'm writing RoR apps ;)
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Message #192845
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The Horror...
...of Eclipse.
I almost puked when I saw I had to use XDoclet to do EJB development.
Netbeans continues to spank Eclipse for J2EE.
What's the motivation for IBM to make free Eclipse J2EE useful - they've got the Rational product line to sell.
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Message #192862
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Commercial Plugins May be the Way
While the Eclipse platform is Open Source and free, it may turn out that the better IDE components are and stay commercial like MyEclipse and similar.
Good tools are written by good software engineers who naturally desire some kind of income AND weekends doing other activities besides software. There salaries need to come from somewhere.
In general, there are relatively few good Open Source projects where the community need and the interests of sufficient corporate donations come together. The Eclipse platform is one of these cases, but the needed individual components may not be.
Steve Punte
CEO
JXReports
PS: I have no affiliation with MyEclipse or Genuitec: it's just an example.
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Message #192871
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I agree: MyEclipse is great
At $30 per year, MyEclipse might as well be free or open source and it's an incredible value for the tools you get. Eclipse + MyEclipse plugins is a great EE development package. I can't say enough good things about MyEclipse and the support behind it.
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Message #192873
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Well, my 2 cents :-)
"Good tools are written by good software engineers who naturally desire some kind of income AND weekends doing other activities besides software."
My version, only small modification:
Good tools are written by good software engineers who naturally deserve GOOD incomes, EVENNGS AND weekends doing other activities THAN software.
Regards,
Cris
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Message #192874
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I agree: MyEclipse is great
And the funny thing is: MyEclipse is in parts based on the WTP ;-)
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Message #192880
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WTP is late
With Sun giving Studio Creator and Studio Enterprise for free, Eclipse WTP will have to do better. But it would be nice to have a feature comparison.
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Message #192881
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Commercial Plugins May be the Way
While the Eclipse platform is Open Source and free, it may turn out that the better IDE components are and stay commercial like MyEclipse and similar. Actually, MyEclipse is mostly OSS. What they do for you is integrate OSS plugins so it is a seemless experience for the developer.
Good tools are written by good software engineers who naturally desire some kind of income AND weekends doing other activities besides software. There [sic] salaries need to come from somewhere.In general, there are relatively few good Open Source projects where the community need and the interests of sufficient corporate donations come together. The Eclipse platform is one of these cases, but the needed individual components may not be. What a load of pure, Grade-A bullsh*t. You definitely do not "get" Open Source. I have seen far more crappy code produced by so-called "good software engineers" employed by vendors (having worked for and with some) than in the Open Source arena. The benefit of OSS is the peer review. Just because you draw a salary does not mean your code is somehow better; in fact the steady paycheck and corporate disfunctionality of paid "engineers" gives few the motivation to exceed expectations IMHO. Good code comes from a desire within oneself.
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Message #192882
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WTP
Thank god the WTP finally hits the 1.0 mark, for all of you who think that it is a plug and go system, sorry to say it not yet.
It is foremost the foundation for web plugins, and as such many eclipse plugins rely on it. MyEclipse for instance is based on an older version while Exadel has newer versions integrated.
Nevertheless, the WTP has been a serious version problem if you wanted to mix several tools together because all of those usually used their own version. Now that 1.0 hopefully (after long delays and bug ridden 1.0RCs which then were pushed back to 0.x status) will arrive the situation will become calmer.
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Message #192886
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I'm very disappointed...
I have been disappointed in Eclipse for a while. I went back to NetBeans and couldn't be happier. Why would I want to use a tool which is incomplete and pay for things which should have been included for free. Then you also have to worry about which plugin is the best and if something happens you have to reinstall all of them which is not always the easiest thing to do.
I will stick with NetBeans for my development and if any of you want to check out the best front end development tool get the Sun Java Studio Creator it is free also and deserves a look. The combination of NetBeans and Creator cannot be beat.
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Message #192901
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I'm very disappointed too
I'm very disappointed too,I have to try all kind of ide. I may be back to Netbean.
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Message #192902
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In defence of Eclipse and WTP
In defence of the Eclipse Web Tools Project, the whole idea of the project is to rationalise the common underlying components, so that third party tools vendors can easily implement tools on top of the Framework. This is one of the huge advantages of Eclipse, minimise the work required for others to add value. It's not eclipses fault that out of the box it's not as useful for 'end' users, thats not the point.....
Andrew
Not affiliated with anyone......
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Message #192921
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In defence of WTP
Andrew's gotten the point. The main goal of the WTP project is to give a foundation for another J2EE plugins, which do not have to reimplement the common web and java enterprise tools. You can use it directly also, but it supports only common and standard parts of the web and java enterprise development, which can be reused in another plugins, which are based on it.
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Message #192926
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Eclipse Web Tools Project 1.0RC1 released
NetBeans vs. Eclipse vs. Idea. Who cares? If you like an IDE use it, if you don't like it don't use it. But please don't think the rest of the world is going to be converted and realise the error of their ways just because you post something to TSS saying "My IDE's better than yours, nah nah nah-nah nah".
This is about as productive as the Checked vs. Unchecked argument that gets trotted out every couple of weeks.
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Message #192933
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I agree: MyEclipse is great
I find MyEclipse's price/quality ratio excellent. For 30$/year, it is definitely worth using it!
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Message #192940
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Eclipse Web Tools Project 1.0RC1 released
NetBeans vs. Eclipse vs. Idea. Who cares? If you like an IDE use it, if you don't like it don't use it. But please don't think the rest of the world is going to be converted and realise the error of their ways just because you post something to TSS saying "My IDE's better than yours, nah nah nah-nah nah".This is about as productive as the Checked vs. Unchecked argument that gets trotted out every couple of weeks.
I agree. However, it is interesting that an overwhelming number of posts in this thread are pro-Netbeans. 6 months ago, it would have been the exact opposite, with 1 or 2 Netbeans supporters fending off a swarm of Eclipse proponents. I use both Eclipse and Netbeans but I think this thread really reflects how far Netbeans has come in the last year.
Mike
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Message #192977
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I'm very disappointed...
Well i had also bigger expactation about WTP. JTD covers all about J2SE so WTP should cover all J2EE...
But I hope as Eclipse JDT is base for plenty of J2SE plugins WTP && DTP will also be base for great J2EE plugins. And its better to wait for a while then to spoil a work. I'm looking forward to JSF and JSR220-ORM stuff.
Unfortunately the schedule looks like the first complete usable set of tool will be finished in 6/2006.
So WTP is not J2EE tool, it is by my oppinion more api to build on...
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Message #192998
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JSF
unfortunately there is no jsf stuff there in WTP, it will come around mid next year (if they can keep the roadmap)
as for jsr220, there is an excellent plugin, it is called jsr220, unfortunately it does not support db roundtripping yet, it was supposed to come out around three weeks ago, but having a separate project in the same domain started by jboss and others which now have to be merged, basically slowed things down.
but besides the missing reverse engineering, the jsr220 project is probably the best bet you can get on jsr220 on any ide and platform for now.
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Message #192999
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forgot to mention
if you are in need for jsf support in Eclipse
there is the faces ide which is free.
Then there is MyEclipse, and Exadel which both build upon the WTP, although in different versions, in the low cost range.
And there is Bea (Nitrox) and IBM with their offerings in the high price range.
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Message #193059
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Pattern
Am I the only one to see a pattern here?
!) Java community gets introduced to new technology that will "make life easier"
2) Many early adopters tout the advantages of said system
3) Early adopters convince majority of community that said technology is great, everyone is excited and talks about how great it is
4) 6 months to several years later, community realizes that the new technology does not actually offer improvement on the level that was advertised and start comparing it on an equal basis with other similar technologies
5) Repeat from step 1
It seems like this is an eternal cycle. I'm getting cynical watching the community go through these hype cycles, and now when new technologies come out I wait for a year to see if the technology pans out. Am I the only one seeing this?
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Message #193442
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What pattern?
Am I the only one to see a pattern here?
....
I'm getting cynical watching the community go through these hype cycles, and now when new technologies come out I wait for a year to see if the technology pans out. Am I the only one seeing this?
And where is the pattern you're talking about?
The people are just saying that WTP is not worth downloading and using, if you need EE development you should buy a better plugin (like MyEclipse or Exadel) or try NetBeans.
There's no one saying that "JSF will save our lifes" or "EJB 3.0 will be our salvation".
I just can't see any pattern here.
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Message #194744
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The Saver of Eclipse is...
We can realize that the saver of Eclipse in the Web Projecs is MyEclipse, thanks to my MyEclipse I keep with Eclipse becuase help to be more productive. Of course my firm can pay it but I have in my house netbeans to my Jobies of weekend.
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