|
Sponsored Links
Resources
Enterprise Java
Research Library
Get Java white papers, product information, case studies and webcasts
|
News
News
News
|
Messages: 9
Messages: 9
Messages: 9
Printer friendly
Printer friendly
Printer friendly
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
XML
XML
XML
|
 |
Modular, Lightweight JRE: Not a Rumor
Ethan Nicholas says that a lightweight, Consumer JRE is not a rumor. Sun is working on it and it will be available in the first half of 2008. Most people were so busy speculating about what JavaFX means (or doesn't) that they missed the actual announcement. The promise of JavaFX is likely tied to the Consumer JRE. Ethan says:The Consumer JRE is a release of Java 6 targeted at making the end-user experience better, meaning smaller downloads, faster installs, better graphics performance, smoother installation, faster startup, better reliability, and a bunch of other nice enhancements. The Consumer JRE will allow execution of a typical Swing applications with a JVM installation of 3 to 4 MB as downloaded, and additional libraries and JVM elements will be installed on-demand, and in-place, when needed and without creating a myriad of JRE versions on the end-user's hard disk.
Is the Consumer JRE a good idea? Do you think it stands a fighting chance against Adobe's Flash or Microsoft's .Net? How does this environment stack up against proven, portable technologies like Qt that ISVs prefer for portable desktop applications?
See "Rumor: Java 6 update 2 will be 2-4MB?" for more on this.
|
|
|
Message #232961
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Re: Modular, Lightweight JRE: Not a Rumor
The on-demand aspect-- is this something the app needs to specify up front in the meta-inf or do we run the possibility that the JRE will start downloading dependent classes while the user is using the app. The impression given at one of the J1 talks was that it would download while the user is using the app.
|
|
|
Message #232962
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Re: Modular, Lightweight JRE: Not a Rumor
Good idea, definitely. My only concern is whether 1st half 2008 is too late... we're leaving Flex/Apollo and Silverlight one year advantage.
Hopefully not.
|
|
|
Message #232963
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
good opportunity to fix a lot of things
I think the assumption that jre size (13MB) is somehow a problem is false. That is not the issue. The real issue is keeping it up to date and making the whole process seamless. In recent years this has improved much.
The current problem is that between major releases, no new major functionality can be pushed to users. This is caused by the fact that everything needs to be part of the base platform as defined and frozen with major releases every two or three years. This causes important stuff to be not included (for various reasons) and delays the moment other stuff can be used on wide scale unnecessarily.
There's an opportunity to do more in between and also to broaden the scope of what can be installed this way. E.g. swt and other commonly used libraries could be distributed this way. This has the advantage that it reduces download size of applications.
I don't see how modularity relates to performance though. Breaking a jar file in two doesn't magically make either half any faster and of course Java class loader only loads stuff it actually needs inside the jar(s).
|
|
|
Message #232967
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Re: good opportunity to fix a lot of things
Jilles wrote:
I think the assumption that jre size (13MB) is somehow a problem is false. That is not the issue.
The JRE size is an issue for consumer-oriented software. I've worked for two major companies whose main development thrust is in Java but who had to use native Microsoft languages and libraries to reach their biggest demographic because of download issues. Joe Smith as a user won't have the patience to sit through a larger download than 4 MB in order to use some software player or application. We experienced the same problem with both Java and .Net given that a large number of machines in the wild still lack .Net support (only newer systems come with .Net pre-installed, and the business requirements specified support back to Windows 2000 in one of those cases).
Having a modular JRE, especially if it's updated "on demand", would be a huge win for companies who have a need like the one I described. It will also help Java compete better with Apollo, Silverlight, and .Net itself. I just wish that Sun's timeline wasn't so tight.
Cheers,
Eugene
Register here for TheServerSide Java Symposium Barcelona
My presentations:
BOF: From specs to mission-critical app - choosing an ESB
Enterprise Application Mashup: Architecting the Future - encore presentation after TSSJS Las Vegas
|
|
|
Message #233039
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
WHAT ?!!!! first half of 2008
oh ,what a stupid timeframe, it seems that those at sun does not know any thing about the market they competing in,the flex SDK and runtime and tools is available NOW, the silverlight SDK and runtime and tools is available NOW ,and sun is comming to say "we r competing with them (after one year from now we will provide ur users with the runtime)", and iguess the first tool will be available in 2 years and the first really usable tool in 4 years(yes it takes about 3 years in sun to provide something usefull(remember netbeans and studio creator))
SO the JavaFX is around several years behind the competitors instead to be the trunk in this market(it is 12 years old now)
SUN: please u can provide us qwith something usable(runtime) in about 3 monthes (u have the JDK and several micro VMs from mobile companies etc..) and pump some money in the tools development team to provide us soon with some usefull tool (you must't provide this as a free tool if this degrade the budget)
i hope all wise men at sun satisfy the market requirements to give us competitive advantage in this area
joe
|
|
|
Message #233052
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Re: Modular, Lightweight JRE: Not a Rumor
This is brilliant, so i can start Swing/Applet type stuffs again! perhaps with JavaFX :) without fighting on JavaScript or browser side scripting i can again keep my smile with Applet type stuff.. :)
that’s really smell good.
|
|
|
Message #233077
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Size Matters
You bet JRE size makes a difference. Most of the world's people, the ones who have access to computers, have 1) non-broadband internet; 2) Pentium 2 or Pentium 3 class machines; and 3) memory below 256MB. For these people the current ~15MB JRE is too big. It's so big they don't want it on their machine. If they are very patient and it gets onto their machine, it starts slowly and then grinds everything to a halt with it's massive memory footprint.
It's amazing how many Java people don't get it that the small, fast, and efficient Flash runtime killed Java applets. Because of this, Java programmers have no viable Java platform for Rich Internet Applications (RIA). Instead, we must learn Flash/Flex or Javascript/AJAX. It's a shame because Applets practically invented RIA and held so much promise.
Next up, watch Flash Lite kill J2ME on mobile phones.
|
|
|
Message #233080
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Re: Size Matters
You bet JRE size makes a difference. Most of the world's people, the ones who have access to computers, have 1) non-broadband internet; 2) Pentium 2 or Pentium 3 class machines; and 3) memory below 256MB. For these people the current ~15MB JRE is too big. It's so big they don't want it on their machine. If they are very patient and it gets onto their machine, it starts slowly and then grinds everything to a halt with it's massive memory footprint.
It's amazing how many Java people don't get it that the small, fast, and efficient Flash runtime killed Java applets. Because of this, Java programmers have no viable Java platform for Rich Internet Applications (RIA). Instead, we must learn Flash/Flex or Javascript/AJAX. It's a shame because Applets practically invented RIA and held so much promise.
Next up, watch Flash Lite kill J2ME on mobile phones.
Well, if I would have to make the choice between server-side java as the enterprise platform it is today, and java the client side flash killer, with total domination in the "I cant afford a new computer" segment, then I know which route I prefer.
There are few enterprises rolling out business applications using flash, and quite frankly I dont think that this is likely to change.
1996 - lots of people where bitten by the client-server bugs, and html generated on the server-side looked very promising. To bad usability suffered a bit, but then again, the people paying the bills saw other benefits.
|
|
|
Message #233324
Post reply
Post reply
Post reply
Go to top
Go to top
Go to top
|
|
Applets kill Flash already
You wouldnt notice it but on any decent net connection java applets are downloading and starting up as fast or faster than Flash.
Only one problem, there ARENT many Applets anymore. And thats not because of download times.
Im prompted to download a new version of QuickTime, Flash, Firefox whatever every other day as long as a JRE or applet download.
Its that Java Swing is NOT (and never was intended to be) an animation suite.
Flash was intended to show highly graphical animation. For any programming language animation is well, a sideshow.
Now once you get beyond that fact you have to imagine where DOES Java fit on the client? And applets well, are stuck with Swing. Which SUN hasnt made enough effort to make pretty and usable on any platform.
And maybe SUN wont be able to make it that cool ever again and they lost their opportunity.
But on the other hand if THEY DID...You could say goodbye to about every other thing besides the flash player and Mozilla XUL because the technology capability is there unlike flex and so and so and yada yada.
So I dont think it matters that much, I have been working on an Applet for the past month unlike probably well 99 percent of other Java devs out there and Im pretty happy with the results and download times and speed are not a problem and Im doing some moderate to heavy lifting.
If SUN makes it better great. But the red headed step child is not so red headed anymore and you might find out your more closely related than you thought.
|
|
|
| New content on TheServerSide.comNew content on TheServerSide.comNew content on TheServerSide.com |
|
|
Reza Rahman continues to explore the features of the proposed JSR 299, Contexts and Dependency Injection for Java EE (CDI). When approved, it promises to be a key feature of Java EE 6.
(January 21, Article)
Ted Neward is an independent consultant specializing in high-scale enterprise systems, and an authority in Java and .NET technologies. He is the author and co-author of several books, including Effective Enterprise Java. At TheServerSide Java Symposium in March, he will be presenting sessions on pragmatic architecture, ECMAScript and Scala.
(January 15, Article)
Now that Oracle is absorbing Sun Microsystems, there mixed views on what should come of the Java Community Process (JCP). While some say Oracle should become the new steward of Java and keep the JCP much as it was, others argue that it may be time to open-source this widespread language.
(November 24, Article)
Reza Rahman explores the features of the proposed JSR 299, Contexts and Dependency Injection for Java EE (CDI). When approved, it promises to be a key feature of Java EE 6.
(November 2, Article)
SAML is an XML-based standard for exchanging authentication and authorization data between security domains. The single most important problem that SAML was created to solve is the Web browser Single Sign-On problem. Many organizations are debating whether to stay with version 1.1 or move to 2.0. This article makes observations about both options.
(September 28, Article)
Joe Ottinger takes a look at how people learn, and applies it to the practice of programming. He notes that understanding how people learn is an essential part of working in a programming team.
(September 22, Article)
Stephen Maryka gave us an article about the Asynchronous Web and posed a number of questions that get examined like an approach to delivering Asynchronous Web capabilities through extensions to existing Java EE technologies.
(July 14, Article)
JavaServer Faces Flex goal is to provide users capability in creating standard Flex components, part of flexSDK which is open sourced through MPL license, as normal JSF components. This article by Ji Hoon Kim will provide an overview of creating a simple multilingual JSF page consisting of JSF Flex tags.
(June 29, Article)
In this session Jeff explores the key characteristics of successful SOA projects. He covers some of the patterns, and anti-patterns, tool sets, and strategies that he himself learned the hard way. Last, he provides a strategy and blueprint for achieving a high likelihood of success in your SOA project.
(June 23, Tech Talk)
Ari Zilka, CTO of Terracotta, Inc., talks about the new features in Terracotta 3.1, announced during JavaOne and available now.
(June 15, Tech Talk)
In this Tech Talk, Josh Long explores an integration challenge using Spring Integration and walks through the implementation, employing and expanding on the basic patterns of Enterprise Application Integration to tie together components into a function integration solution, and then demonstrates how Spring Integration helps address the integration requirements.
(June 15, Tech Talk)
In this Tech Talk, David Geary teaches you: The basics of Google Web Toolkit; How to implement Ajax-enabled applications in Java; Internationalization; Hooking into the browser history mechanism; Remote procedure calls.
(June 4, Tech Talk)
Jon Kern discusses the best architecture/technical solutions and ensure that they are repeated by all developers. By tackling the architecture up-front in a serial manner, subsequent parallel development will be much more manageable and predictable.
(May 28, Tech Talk)
This keynote describes the frustrations of modern knowledge workers in their quest to actually get some work done, and solutions for how to guard yourself against all those distractions. Neal Ford talks about environments, coding, acceleration, automation, and avoiding repetition as ways to defeat the misguided attempts to sap your ability to produce good work.
(May 26, Tech Talk)
Gil demonstrates how new, aggressive uses of already abundant compute capacity by common applications offer competitive value for application designers.
(May 21, Tech Talk)
Chris Keene introduces WaveMaker as a new way to automate the ability to generate Hibernate classes in order to more quickly bring OR mapping into an application.
(May 19, Article)
Download the entire book of Jakarta-Struts Live and learn about Struts MVC, Tiles, the Validator, DynaActionForms, plug-ins, internationalization, and more.
(Book PDF Download)
The Application Server Matrix is a detailed listing of J2EE vendors and their application server products, with information on latest version numbers, J2EE spec support and licensing, pricing, platform support, and links to product downloads and reviews.
(Application Server Comparison Matrix)
|
|
