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Messages: 38
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NetBeans 6 released, with enhanced editor component
Netbeans 6 has been released, with the primary focuses being on editor enhancements and language support. Netbeans is getting a lot of good reviews in the Ruby community, for example, with excellent Rails and JRuby support. The editor, they say, is much more responsive than in previous releases.
Netbeans 6 has also streamlined the installation process, by offering bundles with C/C++, Ruby, Java SE, Mobile Java, and Java EE built in. They've eliminated the Visual Web Pack and Profiler modules, now including them into the base IDE distribution.
Netbeans 6 has been available as a release candidate for a few weeks, so users have had a chance to see these features already, but being generally available gives it a stamp of approval it might not have otherwise had.
As an open source IDE and rich client platform, Netbeans 6 is an excellent step forward for Sun.
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Message #243242
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Everything but the right thing...
The feature set for NB6 is pretty amazing, and it has one of the best looking UML editors I've seen.
However, like Eclipse, the edtior features are rather poor. I spend most of my time there, and likewise I'm still using IDEA because of it.
Guys, just to be blunt, why not "copy" the way IDEA does their getter/setter and other generation? There's no good reason to make code generation a refactoring feature. Technically, generation of code is not a refactoring feature anyway.
Also why in the world didn't someone add project module support? The "everything is a project" model is kinda dated.
All in all, NB6 is well done with a remarkable feature set. But a couple of sticking issues are keeping me away from it. Maybe someone will write a plugin to mimic the IDEA features. :)
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Message #243243
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Netbeans 6 and Woodstock 4.1 with client side rendering!?!?
Netbeans 6 look promising but jsf components inside it took a strange roadmap. In fact, woodstock components 4.0, a really good jsf component library, used html renderer but woodstock 4.1 can use only client side rendering! What is client side rendering? It is a way to render components clientside using javascript and dojo. All these things can be fantastic but, for end user, this translates in poor performance, long loading times and extensive cpu usage. What do you think about?
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Message #243246
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
...
Guys, just to be blunt, why not "copy" the way IDEA does their getter/setter and other generation? There's no good reason to make code generation a refactoring feature. Technically, generation of code is not a refactoring feature anyway.
....
If you do a "alt + ins" as you would in IntelliJ, you'll see what you want. The code generation is already carbon copied from IntelliJ.
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Message #243248
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Relationship with Embarcadero?
The feature set for NB6 is pretty amazing, and it has one of the best looking UML editors I've seen.
I wonder if anyone on the NB team can answer how the UML editor in Netbeans relates to Embarcadero? Looking through the Netbeans source, there's various references to Embarcadero, and I believe one of the Netbeans UML devs came over from there, but I can't find anything specific on the NB site regarding how/where the technologies mesh. Just curious...
And yes, I agree - the Netbeans 6 UML editor is great :)
Peter
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Message #243250
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
...
Also why in the world didn't someone add project module support? The "everything is a project" model is kinda dated.
...
That is indeed true. But now they do have a thing called "project group" which is on the same level of IntelliJ project, making NetBeans projects look like IntelliJ modules.
And talking about the "right thing", one of the things NB6 is missing is its IDE-ness. For example, you still can not right click any Java class that has a main(), and just run it. If your main class is in the "src" folder, you have to "configure" that as the main class of the entire project; and if your main class is in the "test" folder, sorry, no can run. To me, that is a more "what in the world..." question as an IDE.
But again, no body does the right thing. :) 6.0 is an improvement that is way over due.
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Message #243254
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
hmm, I can right click, select Run File from the menu or Shift+F6 ;-)
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Message #243255
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
hmm, I can right click, select Run File from the menu or Shift+F6 ;-)
Try and create the same class in your "test" folder, do a "shift + f6" and see what happens. ;)
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Message #243256
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
I see your point ;-), however, not a big deal for me (you could always add it to your source package list instead of test), in fact, the test integration is pretty easy imo.
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Message #243258
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MAVEN + JSF do not work
Huge bugs have made it from RC1 to Final. One is support for Maven + JSF. One cannot use autocompletion in a jsp page of a managed bean... It's a pity because some other features are very impressive.
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Message #243259
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Re: Everything but the right thing...
I see your point ;-), however, not a big deal for me (you could always add it to your source package list instead of test), in fact, the test integration is pretty easy imo.
Yes, there are workarounds. I could also create another "src" folder just to host stuff like that. But that's not the point. For an IDE, you'd expect it to able to run a legitimate main class no matter where it is located. If it's in a test case, the IDE should ask "you wanna run it as JUnit test, or just the main method?". Now, it is whole different matter whether it is a good idea to have main method in a test case; but that should not be the concern of the IDE.
And on the topic of JUnit test, the performance of a usual cycle "change test -> run and see test fail -> change code -> run and see test succeed" on a single class is still very poor. A long lasting issue of NetBeans compared to others. Digging through the mailing list, you have the option of "turn off dependency check" to speed up the process. But who would want to run that risk?
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Message #243260
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Re: MAVEN + JSF do not work
Although I (obviously, since it just came out today) haven't had a chance to use NB 6.0 final extensively, I did load an existing Maven/JSF 1.2 (Trinidad) project into NetBeans (using, of course NetBeans excellent Maven plugin, and JSF navigation and completion work as expected.
David
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Message #243266
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Sticking with 5.5.1 for now
I've played a bit with NB 6 RC1.
And, unfortunately, they made enough changes that switching from 5.5.1 to 6 is just not straightforward. There's been a lot of reorganization, etc.
5.5.1 is far from perfect, but it's more a "devil I know" than anything else, and I feel NB 6 is too much of a leap for me at this juncture to want to slow things down messing with a new IDE.
Plus it is still not clear what kind of interoperability there is between NB 6 and NB 5.5.1 projects. It's a tough pill to swallow to force everyone up all at once and make the project grind to a halt while we fight learning the new IDE.
So, we'll wait a bit. Maybe for 6.1.
I HAVE been using NB 6 solely for UML, and I will update that to the latest. I'm not happy with the UML printing. I can't find any exposure of the page sizes to let me lay the diagrams out better to fit well when being printed out.
Does NB 6 work 100% on the Mac also? I understand there were somethings not working well on the Mac. I don't know if those are resolved or not.
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Message #243267
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Re: MAVEN + JSF do not work
Julien: It's just today that I've learned about problems with Maven+Jsf via your post to nbusers@netbeans.org mailing list. As I mentioned in private email and the issue you are referring to (http://www.netbeans.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=115182), the way to fix it to provide steps to reproduce the problem, preferably with a sample maven project. As you can see in the issue report (which was opened in September), the developers repeatedly asked for steps to reproduce from various reporters to no avail. An attempt to fix the problem was added (in October), but obviously the developer in charge could not verify the fix without the steps to reproduce.
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Message #243280
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Re: Relationship with Embarcadero?
And yes, I agree - the Netbeans 6 UML editor is great :)
Peter
Hmmm... I love NetBeans, but I think the UML editor has a ways to go. You have to manually invoke a resize on the class containers when you hide attributes or operations. There's no way to hide all non-public attributes or operations -- just an item-by-item show/hide. The sequence diagram generation had issues in RC2 at least (as noted in the release notes) -- I've not tried the final yet in this regard. Finally various odd behaviors when I tried to drag stuff around in complex diagrams.
That's not to say the UML editor has no merits -- but it feels unfinished to me from both a feature and quality standpoint.
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Message #243282
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Re: Relationship with Embarcadero?
All true, however it's the best free IDE-integrated UML editor out there at the moment (at least, unless someone points me at a better one :)
The forward/reverse engineering features (class diagrams) are also very well done and can be extremely helpful
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Message #243284
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UML Problems
All true, however it's the best free IDE-integrated UML editor out there at the moment (at least, unless someone points me at a better one :)
Indeed, therefore we should strive to make it better by reporting every weakness, like this one:
The responsiveness is not always good, and it seem that many calculations happen into the swing dispatch thread.
The problem becomes more apparent as the project becomes larger.
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Message #243286
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Re: Sticking with 5.5.1 for now
So, we'll wait a bit. Maybe for 6.1.
I HAVE been using NB 6 solely for UML, and I will update that to the latest. I'm not happy with the UML printing. I can't find any exposure of the page sizes to let me lay the diagrams out better to fit well when being printed out.
On the diagram toolbar there is a print view button. The print preview window has a Print Setup button. In the print setup you can specify the number of pages to print. The diagram is then zoom to print across the diagram.
You can also set the zoom level before pressing the print preview button, and use the Zoom Level option in the print setup dialog. The diagram should then be printed with the same zoom level.
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Message #243288
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Great!
I have noticed a few minor bugs that are still in RC2 (I doubt they have been fixed). Some GUI annoyances when running on Ubuntu, and one small debugger bug (I can reliably reproduce in my main project, but not in a small code sample).
Overall, though, NetBeans 6 is fantastic! Great editor enhancements plus lots of smaller enhancements that make my day to day work more productive. I'm very happy!
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Message #243295
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Re: Sticking with 5.5.1 for now
So, we'll wait a bit. Maybe for 6.1.
I HAVE been using NB 6 solely for UML, and I will update that to the latest. I'm not happy with the UML printing. I can't find any exposure of the page sizes to let me lay the diagrams out better to fit well when being printed out.
On the diagram toolbar there is a print view button. The print preview window has a Print Setup button. In the print setup you can specify the number of pages to print. The diagram is then zoom to print across the diagram.
You can also set the zoom level before pressing the print preview button, and use the Zoom Level option in the print setup dialog. The diagram should then be printed with the same zoom level.
Reposting with original message quoted here.
Here's a related post with the steps for printing the diagram in multiple pages.
http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Printing-UML-diagrams--p14016411.html
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Message #243305
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Sticking with 5.5.1 until...
There is Facelets and decent Groovy support. I understand why there is an effort to appease the vast amount of Java bashing Ruby whiners out there but, Groovy gives you all the perceived goodness of dynamically typed languages plus being able to leverage the ridiculous amount of excellent Java libraries out there. Give Groovy some love for goodness sake.
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Message #243306
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For an eclipse guy
Just downloaded,
Look forward to explore it's greatness if it fulfills it's promise - specially responsiveness and ruby.
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Message #243307
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Before i run it for first time
I wish font is smooth! First and only reason i have been avoiding netbeans was for it's font problem
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Message #243318
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Why does Sun pay developers to make an IDE that it gives away?
Pardon my naïveté but even with Tomcat, I've never understood how Sun takes something like this and monetizes it profitably - i.e., sales of licenses and support more than cover the cost of salaries, benefits, office space and resources. I'm not knocking Netbeans - I'm just curious about the economics.
I think a commercial approach, like IntelliJ, is more honest and straight forward - if their product is good enough, they don't need to give it away, rather, people will simply pay a fee for their own licensed copy. Furthermore, it's been quite a while since I've used Netbeans (I liked it best when it was Forte), but I've watched these kinds of releases + discussions over the years and I always get the impression that it tends to lag in features and quality. So why pump resources into something that you give away and seems to be behind the curve?
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Message #243320
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Re: Why does Sun pay developers to make an IDE that it gives awa
Pardon my naïveté but even with Tomcat, I've never understood how Sun takes something like this and monetizes it profitably - i.e., sales of licenses and support more than cover the cost of salaries, benefits, office space and resources. I'm not knocking Netbeans - I'm just curious about the economics.
I think a commercial approach, like IntelliJ, is more honest and straight forward - if their product is good enough, they don't need to give it away, rather, people will simply pay a fee for their own licensed copy. Furthermore, it's been quite a while since I've used Netbeans (I liked it best when it was Forte), but I've watched these kinds of releases + discussions over the years and I always get the impression that it tends to lag in features and quality. So why pump resources into something that you give away and seems to be behind the curve?
Is this under the "no gift horse goes unpunished" theory?
Also, Sun does not back Tomcat anymore.
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Message #243322
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Re: Why does Sun pay developers to make an IDE that it gives awa
Is this under the "no gift horse goes unpunished" theory?
This doesn't answer the question(s), rather, it expresses your feelings about my question. Also, how does this question equal a theory?
Also, Sun does not back Tomcat anymore. They don't need to after they released Tomcat 4; that release took on a life of its own.
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Message #243323
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Interesting
Ironically, you could say the same for the Java language but if SUN hadn't given that away, you probably wouldn't be using it right now. It wouldn't have as many developers, there wouldn't be as many extensions, cool tools and this site's community itself might not exist. It's all about fostering a community. Then you can sell to that community and they will also contribute to (ideally) your copy-left product and you will have started something that is much bigger than you. Then you'll find markets for your products you never knew existed and you'll have a dialogue with clients over you free software and be able to expand that relationship to some of your more lucrative products. It's the difference between being good and being GREAT. The great companies get it. I'm often on the receiving end since I work in a large corporation. We often find ourselves purchasing maintenance, services or other products from the companies whose software we are using.
Get everyone using Eclipse... maybe you can sell them datapowers. SUN doesn't do the best with their community but I think it's important for them to continue to foster it. Look to our data center and you will see a SUN T2000 strategy that might not be there if we didn't use other tools of theirs and already have a relationship.
It's much bigger than the IDE. If you like IntelliJ, use it. However, it won't have as much support for as many different languages or as many plugins/extensions as the free IDEs. I know that's true for Eclipse. Have you tried doing OSGI in IntelliJ?
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Message #243324
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Re: Why does Sun pay developers to make an IDE that it gives awa
I guess it's the same reason why IBM used to (still are?) pay people to do Eclipse and give it away. Once you have a community as someone else mentioned, people get attached to the series of products that come with it even when there are way better alternatives out there. Even a tough sell like RAD/WSAD becomes possible.
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Message #243334
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Re: Why does Sun pay developers to make an IDE that it gives awa
Consider it a marketing expense.
Sun sponsors and gives away tools like NetBeans and Glassfish to help ensure that there are few reasons for people to NOT use Java. It gets rid of all of the low hanging excuses.
With NB and GF, getting started with Java is TRIVIAL. It's practically a one click out of box experience. Run a few wizards, type in a few names, and shazam, you have a running application, whether it's for a mobile phone or an enterprise cluster.
Then, since this isn't a bait and switch, the tools will actually work through out the development and deployment process which means you can start with the wizards and what not to get your feet wet, and stick with it throughout your entire application cycle.
It never ceases to amaze me how many folks feel that Sun shouldn't put effort in to make Java more accessible, useable and useful to the user community, but that's exactly what their NB and GF efforts do.
In the end they get a profit center for training and support, and, ideally, "good will" that will perhaps give them a nod when companies make other IT decisions that might involve a company like Sun.
Suns Java stack right now is a freight train. The software works, it's accessible, and it's feature rich.
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Message #243347
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Re: NetBeans 6 released, with enhanced editor component
I played with NetBeans 6 for about 10 mins. Here are pros and cons for me:
Pros:
- Best looking on linux (Ubuntu 7.10 w/Compiz) out of Eclipse (clean but boring) and IDEA (horrible and ugly looking)
- Loved profiler integration
- Overall seems intuitive: menus and actions are all in expected places (coming from mixed usage of Eclipse and IDEA)
Cons:
- Enabled Javadoc warnings; remove '@' from {@link...} construct – got no warning. That's pretty much a show stopper for me.
- No substitute for IDEA's inspections... Checkstyle for NetBeans is not good enough.
Best,
Nikita Ivanov.
GridGain – Grid Computing Made Simple
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Message #243386
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Does the UML editor have undo now?
The last beta I was on had no "undo" functionality using the UML editor. Has that changed in the final release? (I didn't see it mentioned in the release notes.)
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Message #243389
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Re: Before i run it for first time
Try:
Tools > Options > Advanced Options > Editor Settings > Text Antialiasing
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Message #243417
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Re: NetBeans 6 released, with enhanced editor component
If you've ever paid good money for crappy software and/or development tools, you'll appreciate NB. It works great for me. The best part is that it works and is FREE. Meaning I can use it at work and at home on my personal projects. With each release, I feel like a kid taking free candy.
Look at the profiler, debugger, cvs and svn integration. Visual web designer, Mattisse, etc, etc.
It gets better with each release - shows a real commitment from Sun to improve it. Anyone remember NB 3.6? Any comparisons here?
The below is debatable ad-nauseum:
Idea perhaps makes one of the two best IDEs around. NetBeans is a great IDE. Eclipse is a great IDE.
In our shop, each person uses whichever he/she prefers. We don't need to debate which is best, better, best. Just pick one and write some good code.
Ed.
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Message #243484
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Impressed...
I've only spent a little bit of time playing with NetBeans 6, but so far I'm pretty darn impressed. Not only with the feature/functions, but the supporting information. (documentation, web site, etc.) Nice indeed...
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Message #243570
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Congratulations NetBeans team
Dear NetBeans team. NetBeans 6 is very nice. Congratulations on another good feature improvement release.
I am finding the svn client integration to be on par with the cvs client that I have been using for years.
On the downside, the Matisse editor for SWING applications is still years and versions away from being usable in a production setting. I use it to layout TestMaker pages. These are very, very, very simple SWING UIs and they take forever in NetBeans. The problem is in trying to do any sort of fine tuning and alignment of controls. Dragging a control almost never has the desired effect.
I am very much looking forward to using the UML editor on my next project.
Thanks NetBeans team!
-Frank Cohen
http://www.pushtotest.com
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Message #244385
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What happened to...?
What happened to right-clicking on Source Packages in the Projects View and then clicking on Properties (the first one) to pick the Sort Mode of the packages? I can't see how to do this in 6.0.
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