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GWT 1.5 release candidate posted

Posted by: Joseph Ottinger on May 28, 2008 DIGG
The 1.5 release candidate of the Google Web Toolkit (GWT) is available. This release adds features for compatibility with Java 5 annotations and templates instead of GWT's earlier annotation-like annotations for type safety. Also included: themes and more widgets. The normal bug fixes and enhancements announcements apply.

If you don't know what GWT is: GWT takes fairly normal Java code and translates parts of it into JavaScript, providing a very shallow ramp to rich internet applications. It also provides an RPC library (as one would expect, with AJAX), a rich widget library, and an active ecosystem providing more widgets and capabilities.

The move to Java 5 syntax is a huge step up for GWT: congratulations, guys.

Threaded replies

·  GWT 1.5 release candidate posted by Joseph Ottinger on Wed May 28 12:08:12 EDT 2008
  ·  Pattern expressions on <source> by Ghanshyam Patel on Wed May 28 13:21:37 EDT 2008
  ·  Re: GWT 1.5 release candidate posted by Andrew Clifford on Wed May 28 19:55:16 EDT 2008
    ·  Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Behrang Javaaherian on Wed May 28 23:01:10 EDT 2008
      ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by David McCoy on Wed May 28 23:25:43 EDT 2008
        ·  Nothing is comparable with Flex Look and Feel by Behrang Javaaherian on Thu May 29 01:29:43 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Nothing is comparable with Flex Look and Feel by David McCoy on Thu May 29 13:07:36 EDT 2008
        ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Adi Sesha on Thu May 29 02:15:33 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Lubor Gajda on Thu May 29 05:36:34 EDT 2008
            ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Andrew Clifford on Thu May 29 09:30:41 EDT 2008
            ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by David McCoy on Thu May 29 13:10:20 EDT 2008
            ·  MyGWT is a big problem by Bryan Taylor on Thu May 29 20:18:15 EDT 2008
              ·  Re: MyGWT is a big problem by David McCoy on Thu May 29 20:57:30 EDT 2008
                ·  Re: MyGWT is a big problem by Andrew Clifford on Thu May 29 21:29:27 EDT 2008
                  ·  ExtJS and MyGWT are Evil by Ext Whistleblower on Fri May 30 11:45:43 EDT 2008
          ·  License Risk by Mark Proctor on Thu May 29 08:34:08 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by David McCoy on Thu May 29 13:09:10 EDT 2008
            ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Mark Proctor on Thu May 29 16:07:10 EDT 2008
              ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by David McCoy on Thu May 29 16:39:40 EDT 2008
                ·  Dropped support by 3rd party vendors by AJ B on Thu May 29 18:33:17 EDT 2008
      ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Ruslan Zenin on Thu May 29 09:19:21 EDT 2008
      ·  Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT by Frank Bank on Thu May 29 11:56:52 EDT 2008
        ·  Browser capabilities exposed through GWT APIs by Rogerio Liesenfeld on Thu May 29 12:29:43 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Browser capabilities exposed through GWT APIs by Pavel Grushetzky on Fri May 30 05:30:57 EDT 2008
            ·  GWT Widgets by Miguel Ping on Fri May 30 07:03:08 EDT 2008
              ·  Re: GWT Widgets by David McCoy on Fri May 30 10:54:45 EDT 2008
                ·  Re: GWT Widgets by Miguel Ping on Fri May 30 13:16:46 EDT 2008
              ·  Framework on top of GWT by Joonas Lehtinen on Fri May 30 16:04:33 EDT 2008
  ·  Leopard Support by Amose Ma on Thu May 29 02:56:02 EDT 2008
  ·  Features required by Istvan Soos on Thu May 29 03:06:29 EDT 2008
    ·  Re: Features required by Joseph Ottinger on Thu May 29 05:23:10 EDT 2008
      ·  Good book indeed! by Istvan Soos on Tue Jun 03 12:58:53 EDT 2008
  ·  Ajax technology is obsolete by Marc de Kwant on Tue Jun 03 05:06:05 EDT 2008
    ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Dennis Bekkering on Tue Jun 03 06:15:07 EDT 2008
      ·  JavaFX is open source by Homer Simpson on Tue Jun 03 18:51:33 EDT 2008
        ·  Re: JavaFX is open source by Dennis Bekkering on Wed Jun 04 05:59:47 EDT 2008
      ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Marc de Kwant on Fri Jun 06 06:04:07 EDT 2008
        ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Marc de Kwant on Fri Jun 06 06:10:57 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Andrew Clifford on Fri Jun 06 09:15:26 EDT 2008
          ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Istvan Soos on Fri Jun 06 09:17:23 EDT 2008
      ·  Flex and javaFX is open source by NN NN on Thu Jun 19 02:11:50 EDT 2008
    ·  Re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Mike Jasnowski on Tue Jun 03 11:43:08 EDT 2008
    ·  re: Ajax technology is obsolete by Istvan Soos on Wed Jun 04 06:18:14 EDT 2008
  ·  GWT and existing html pages by Ara Abrahamian on Sun Jun 15 06:48:04 EDT 2008
  Message #253695 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Pattern expressions on <source>

Posted by: Ghanshyam Patel on May 28, 2008 in response to Message #253691
sorely needed. Having to move classes around purely because there is no mechanism to include only certain files is painful if there are too many to refactor.

  Message #253717 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: GWT 1.5 release candidate posted

Posted by: Andrew Clifford on May 28, 2008 in response to Message #253691
cool, now I can take advantage of the latest gwt-incubator and gwt-dnd projects.

I'm hoping the Google Summer-of-love turns out a mature set of flexy, extjsy visual components.

Remember, Haight is not a Google value.

  Message #253721 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Behrang Javaaherian on May 28, 2008 in response to Message #253717
Last week I had a session with my managers to sell them the idea of GWT over flex I showed them a sample application and how we can benefit from writing java code in both server and client etc. But the look and feel of Flex is just something that GWT can't compete with now. Yes we can customize the look and feel and frameworks can be written to support all the nice effects that flex have, but having a nice UI with nice widgets, out of the box, can be good selling point to managers. I can't compete with flex advocates when they show their demo (Accordion, Transitions, Cool effects, etc, etc).
But the truth is that Google will never invest into GWT for all of those nice features, after all it is a free beer. So I am thinking maybe google should take the adobe approach with GWT. Free engine and paid service for Enterprise messaging (which GWT doesn't have at the moment) and nice UI designer then they will have funding for it.

Regards
Behrang Javaherian
http://www.beyondng.com

  Message #253722 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: David McCoy on May 28, 2008 in response to Message #253721
Last week I had a session with my managers to sell them the idea of GWT over flex I showed them a sample application and how we can benefit from writing java code in both server and client etc. But the look and feel of Flex is just something that GWT can't compete with now. Yes we can customize the look and feel and frameworks can be written to support all the nice effects that flex have, but having a nice UI with nice widgets, out of the box, can be good selling point to managers. I can't compete with flex advocates when they show their demo (Accordion, Transitions, Cool effects, etc, etc).
But the truth is that Google will never invest into GWT for all of those nice features, after all it is a free beer. So I am thinking maybe google should take the adobe approach with GWT. Free engine and paid service for Enterprise messaging (which GWT doesn't have at the moment) and nice UI designer then they will have funding for it.

Regards
Behrang Javaherian
http://www.beyondng.com


You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects.

  Message #253726 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Nothing is comparable with Flex Look and Feel

Posted by: Behrang Javaaherian on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253722
You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects.


I did but the flex look and feel is superior. Flex people can drag and drop component on the screen, attach a validator to them and press the run button and get a great user interface that would take few days to build even with Ext-GWT, I can't see why GWT can't get there. Although I am fan of open source and using a lots of open source projects, I think a commercial support and funding will help GWT to be able to compete with flex in productivity and user experience.

Cheers
Behrang Javaherian
http://www.beyondng.com

  Message #253727 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Adi Sesha on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253722
'You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects'

After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library? It is safe to rely on GWT default widgets,gwt-incubator and build on top of it. Going for third party libraries just for the look is a big risk.

  Message #253729 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Leopard Support

Posted by: Amose Ma on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253691
Its great!

  Message #253730 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Features required

Posted by: Istvan Soos on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253691
Before using GWT, we still need two feature to somehow present:

1. Search engine/web crawler support. At the moment there is no right way to create a GWT application that can be indexed by any search engine.

2. On-demand application loading. If you have a large application, it will be loaded once upfront, which is good sometimes, but I'd like to see the option that only portion of pages are loaded. Yes I know, I can separate my app into modules, but if you have ever tried that, you know it is pain...

Any plans on these to come?

  Message #253737 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Features required

Posted by: Joseph Ottinger on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253730
Before using GWT, we still need two feature to somehow present:

1. Search engine/web crawler support. At the moment there is no right way to create a GWT application that can be indexed by any search engine.

2. On-demand application loading. If you have a large application, it will be loaded once upfront, which is good sometimes, but I'd like to see the option that only portion of pages are loaded. Yes I know, I can separate my app into modules, but if you have ever tried that, you know it is pain...

Any plans on these to come?
It's easy to do both of these. Jeff Dwyer, in "Pro Web 2.0 Application Development with GWT," discusses SEO and GWT, as well as a lot of other issues - including OpenID integration, application size, etc. It's a really good book, I've found, although it relies quite heavily on Spring-MVC and Spring Security. (That's not a *real* complaint, although I would have liked to have seen less Spring, just because of the tie-in. But let's be real: Spring's not THAT MUCH of a tie-in, being only slightly more of a tie-in than Java EE.)

  Message #253739 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Lubor Gajda on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253727
After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library?

+1

Change of ExtJs licensing was showstopper for us as well and we decided to go for FLEX instead. Once ExtJs is not free it just can't compete with FLEX which is much superior solution for RIA applications.

  Message #253748 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

License Risk

Posted by: Mark Proctor on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253727
'You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects'

After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library? It is safe to rely on GWT default widgets,gwt-incubator and build on top of it. Going for third party libraries just for the look is a big risk.


There are ways to avoid this. The simplest way is do not participate in a project that insists on recpiprocal copyright assignments and make sure it has an active community of committers, if they do not own all the copyright they cannot re-license without all community contributors agreeing.

Mark
http://blog.athico.com/ Drools Blog

  Message #253749 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Ruslan Zenin on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253721
Interesting idea...

BTW, have you checked jQuery JS and its huge plugin library?
Some plugins look amazing:

Mac like menus:
http://www.wizzud.com/jqDock/

FlexGrid:
http://webplicity.net/flexigrid/

  Message #253752 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Andrew Clifford on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253739
Flex is great but I can't force my clients to upgrade to the latest version of Flash.

Extjs is a nice library but I really see gwt-incubator as an up-and-comer. A little more skinning, dnd, and animation and I think you are there. Check out gwt-fx as an animation library. Pretty slick.

Now that GWT has made the infrastructure jump to 1.5, we should see it start to visually close the gap with Flex.

  Message #253763 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Frank Bank on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253721
Last week I had a session with my managers to sell them the idea of GWT over flex I showed them a sample application and how we can benefit from writing java code in both server and client etc. But the look and feel of Flex is just something that GWT can't compete with now. Yes we can customize the look and feel and frameworks can be written to support all the nice effects that flex have, but having a nice UI with nice widgets, out of the box, can be good selling point to managers. I can't compete with flex advocates when they show their demo (Accordion, Transitions, Cool effects, etc, etc).
But the truth is that Google will never invest into GWT for all of those nice features, after all it is a free beer. So I am thinking maybe google should take the adobe approach with GWT. Free engine and paid service for Enterprise messaging (which GWT doesn't have at the moment) and nice UI designer then they will have funding for it.

Regards
Behrang Javaherian
http://www.beyondng.com


I think at the end of the day we're dealing with some inherent limitations of today's stock browsers. I guess SVG would help that, but...

  Message #253767 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Browser capabilities exposed through GWT APIs

Posted by: Rogerio Liesenfeld on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253763
I think at the end of the day we're dealing with some inherent limitations of today's stock browsers. I guess SVG would help that, but...

Check out the GWT Canvas component. It works with GWT 1.5 already, and in all current browsers; it uses the "canvas" HTML 5 tag in Firefox 1.5+ and VML in IE 6+ (I don't know what it uses in Opera and Safari).

IMO, with current advances in web technology like the HTML 5 W3C standard and Firefox 3.0 (both approaching final releases), Flash/Flex may well become obsolete or at least unnecessary five years from now.

Another great tool from Google and with a GWT API is Google Gears, which provides, among other things, a JDBC-like SQL API backed by SQLite, a very capable and fast embedded SQL database.

Rogério

  Message #253769 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Nothing is comparable with Flex Look and Feel

Posted by: David McCoy on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253726
You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects.


I did but the flex look and feel is superior. Flex people can drag and drop component on the screen, attach a validator to them and press the run button and get a great user interface that would take few days to build even with Ext-GWT, I can't see why GWT can't get there. Although I am fan of open source and using a lots of open source projects, I think a commercial support and funding will help GWT to be able to compete with flex in productivity and user experience.

Cheers
Behrang Javaherian
http://www.beyondng.com


Look at GWT-Designer. That's what I used. For third-party controls, I just dropped a GWT standard control on the form and did pretty much what you did.

Then, after the code was generated, I refactored, them swapped in the third-party control and pow!

Now, I have java code but was able to put the screen together with a wysiwyg app.

I had a pretty complex app, tabs, dialogs, scrollable regions, menus, the works in about a week. And this was all in java code.

  Message #253770 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: David McCoy on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253727
'You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects'

After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library? It is safe to rely on GWT default widgets,gwt-incubator and build on top of it. Going for third party libraries just for the look is a big risk.


<Shrug> That's a problem for any third-party anything. It sucks,but you can use the pre-GPL stuff or purchase it.

Really, how is that any different from just buying something? What if Google starts charging for GWT? No difference.

  Message #253771 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: David McCoy on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253739
After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library?

+1

Change of ExtJs licensing was showstopper for us as well and we decided to go for FLEX instead. Once ExtJs is not free it just can't compete with FLEX which is much superior solution for RIA applications.


And hope Flex doesn't change their licenses. You aren't immune.

  Message #253781 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: Mark Proctor on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253770
'You need to look for third-party GWT.widgets. Ext-GWT and others have those types of effects'

After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library? It is safe to rely on GWT default widgets,gwt-incubator and build on top of it. Going for third party libraries just for the look is a big risk.


<Shrug> That's a problem for any third-party anything. It sucks,but you can use the pre-GPL stuff or purchase it.

Really, how is that any different from just buying something? What if Google starts charging for GWT? No difference.


If I'm the author of an Open Source project and I deeply depend on another Open Source project - which is what the Open Source eco-system is about. And that project stops being Open Source or changes it's license in a way that I can't consume it, then it leaves me and my entire community without a paddle. The emphasis here is on the Open Source eco-system and how the myriad of projects creates a body of works great than the sum of all it's parts.

If many people using the project thought they where using it under the terms of the LGPL, and then it turns out that this wasn't quite true - due to poor communication and continual changing of licenses, which did start of as LGPL. If the assets, the CSS, are in fact proprietary (not communicated on the web license page, but only in a nested file in the archive) a fork won't be easy and as CSS is effectively code, without a clean room re-implementation (expensive) it's not possible for the open source projects which depend on this project to continue.

Mark
http://blog.drools.org The Drools BLog

  Message #253786 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Yes nice Widgets are the most important thing for GWT

Posted by: David McCoy on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253781
We are all knowingly, putting ourselves at risk using ANY OS project. We've all been using for OS for so long, that some may have forgotten those initial conversations with our bosses when we were trying to convince them to use Struts, Ant, Hibernate, Spring, whatever.

MyGWT is that nightmare scenario, but there is nothing to stop any of them from switching if they so choose.

Isn't that why we decouple or cry "Standards!" or whatever?

Fortunately, most of the projects don't do this, but it can happen to any of them.

To me, saying don't use third-party widgets, but still using any other open sources on the hopes that they don't change the license is naive.

Dropped support, changed licenses, bad code, those are all the dangers, be it MyGWT, Hibernate, or Spring.

  Message #253801 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Dropped support by 3rd party vendors

Posted by: AJ B on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253786
In my past experience, I had a lot more problems with commercial parties dropping a product (or at least stop active development/support) or firms being bought (forced into migration/upgrade path if you want to keep using)/ going of business.

  Message #253808 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

MyGWT is a big problem

Posted by: Bryan Taylor on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253739
After what they did to Ext-GWT(It started with LGPL and turned to GPL) licensing can you dare to look at any other third party library?

+1

Change of ExtJs licensing was showstopper for us as well and we decided to go for FLEX instead. Once ExtJs is not free it just can't compete with FLEX which is much superior solution for RIA applications.


NO! The problem with MyGWT is that it was NOT actually LGPL and it is not now actually GPL. Parts of it are proprietary and they have this weird sort of preconditioned LGPL/GPL. You have to meet those conditions before you receive the LGPG/GPL. This seems to be designed to inhibit forking (I think it fails to achieve that, but it's certainly annoying, and somebody would have to stare their lawyers down to make a fork work).

Normally, if you somebody tries to move to a more restrictive license (eg LGPL->GPL) then it doesn't work because the community would simply fork. With MyGWT you have the problem that the license was misunderstood at best and misrepresented at worst. Google needs to help fix this, in my view.

  Message #253809 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: MyGWT is a big problem

Posted by: David McCoy on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253808
It certainly was a bum move. Something popular enough that did this could have had a chilling effect on OS adoption back in the day.

  Message #253810 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: MyGWT is a big problem

Posted by: Andrew Clifford on May 29, 2008 in response to Message #253809
Lest we forget that GWT and Java have actually become more open and recently too. Google code hosting has some very specific licenses that you can pick from.

MyGWT and extjs definitely suckered a lot of people since nobody is going to pay a bunch of lawyers to defend a code fork.

  Message #253846 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Browser capabilities exposed through GWT APIs

Posted by: Pavel Grushetzky on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253767
IMO, with current advances in web technology like the HTML 5 W3C standard and Firefox 3.0 (both approaching final releases), Flash/Flex may well become obsolete or at least unnecessary five years from now.


This assumes Adobe will freeze flex/flash development for 5 years and wait for competing solutions to take its market share. Questionable assumption I'd say.

That said, I'm all for advances and diversity in web technologies (any sort of technologies). Natural selection will let the best survive.

  Message #253848 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

GWT Widgets

Posted by: Miguel Ping on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253846
What I miss in GWT is a framework on top of the toolkit. Something to enable easy forms, pagination, validation, data binding, before/after/around advice for rpc calls, etc.

As for the widgets, GWT is getting there: check out the rolodex for instance: http://code.google.com/p/gwt-rolodex/

I started developing a google-calendar like app to learn GWT, the source looks horrible (contrary to intuition, it helps ALOT if you know your way around with DOM/HTML when using GWT; I knew nothing xD) but I was getting there. http://code.google.com/p/gwt-scheduler/ I never understood why there isn't a google calendar-like open source proj in GWT/Flex/ExtJS, or any other library/toolkit/framework.

  Message #253862 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: GWT Widgets

Posted by: David McCoy on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253848
Well, it sits on top of DOM and HTML, so it would make sense that you would have to be versed in that stuff to created certain types of components.

However, I'm not sure if you need a framework on top of GWT. Most of the stuff you mentioned is pretty easy to do out of the box.

  Message #253867 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

ExtJS and MyGWT are Evil

Posted by: Ext Whistleblower on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253810
MyGWT and extjs definitely suckered a lot of people.


Follow the malpractices of Ext and what people like John Resig, Dion Almer and Graeme Rocher have to say.

http://extisevil.blogspot.com/

  Message #253878 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: GWT Widgets

Posted by: Miguel Ping on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253862
I was naive back then. I've been avoiding javascript and css for too long :)

But I think GWT would benefit from a framework. At first glance, you can do those things out of the box. But you'll eventually end up repeating lots of code if you not design carefully.

Let's say I want to show a loading icon everytime an rpc is being executed. The simplest way would be subclassing the AsynCallback and enforcing all my rpcs to use the subclass so I can make some sort of before/after advice. If you think this AFTER your app is developed, this would be much harder to accomplish.

Besides, data binding is hard because GWT does not support reflection, you end up writing JSNI to do that for you or use generators. I just want a framework to avoid all the plumbing code, for me GWT right now feels like how servlets were in the beginning, you can do most of things but you end up writing alot of glue code.

  Message #253887 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Framework on top of GWT

Posted by: Joonas Lehtinen on May 30, 2008 in response to Message #253848
Go take a look at IT Mill Toolkit - we have forms, dynamically loading tables (pagination is so web 1.0 :)), validation, data-bindings, ... as well as many nice widgets on top of GWT. Framework has been in production use since year 2001 and is evolving rapidly. Everything is released with Apache 2.0 license. http://itmill.com/

  Message #254001 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Marc de Kwant on June 03, 2008 in response to Message #253691
Since Flex, Silverlight and maybe javaFX matured, Ajax based solutions became obsolete. The three mentioned technologies are far superior to the inferior browser based application model. Ajax was nice and a good patch for a shortcomming of the browser.

But to invest in such technologies that utilize Ajax is investing your money in the past without revenue in the future.

  Message #254006 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Dennis Bekkering on June 03, 2008 in response to Message #254001
all technologies you mention are properiaty

  Message #254016 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Mike Jasnowski on June 03, 2008 in response to Message #254001
Since Flex, Silverlight and maybe javaFX matured, Ajax based solutions became obsolete. The three mentioned technologies are far superior to the inferior browser based application model. Ajax was nice and a good patch for a shortcomming of the browser.

But to invest in such technologies that utilize Ajax is investing your money in the past without revenue in the future.


I think you're not quite comparing Apples to Apples here, AJAX as a technique is just one piece of the puzzle. I would argue that even without AJAX you can have RIA without using Flex, Silverlight, JavaFX, etc.

  Message #254019 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Good book indeed!

Posted by: Istvan Soos on June 03, 2008 in response to Message #253737
Jeff Dwyer, in "Pro Web 2.0 Application Development with GWT," discusses SEO and GWT, as well as a lot of other issues - including OpenID integration, application size, etc. It's a really good book, I've found, although it relies quite heavily on Spring-MVC and Spring Security. (That's not a *real* complaint, although I would have liked to have seen less Spring, just because of the tie-in. But let's be real: Spring's not THAT MUCH of a tie-in, being only slightly more of a tie-in than Java EE.)


I've checked that book and especially the source codes. It is pretty good indeed, with some really good idea how to mix the different worlds, I can only recommend it. At some points I think he is not really using the real capabilities of Spring MVC (like annotations), at least our team has done it better (will be open sourced sooner or later). But anyway, anyone seriously working with GWT should check that book!

  Message #254036 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

JavaFX is open source

Posted by: Homer Simpson on June 03, 2008 in response to Message #254006
all technologies you mention are properiaty


JavaFX is open source:

http://www.sun.com/software/javafx/index.jsp

----
Openness and Compatibility Matter

Like the rest of the Java platform, JavaFX Script will be available under the GPL license.
----

  Message #254054 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: JavaFX is open source

Posted by: Dennis Bekkering on June 04, 2008 in response to Message #254036
For a lot of companies GPL will be an insuperable burden. The point is that html, css and javascript dont have licenses anyway, but maybe you are right and JavaFX will take over everything

  Message #254055 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Istvan Soos on June 04, 2008 in response to Message #254001
Since Flex, Silverlight and maybe javaFX matured, Ajax based solutions became obsolete. The three mentioned technologies are far superior to the inferior browser based application model. Ajax was nice and a good patch for a shortcomming of the browser.

But to invest in such technologies that utilize Ajax is investing your money in the past without revenue in the future.


Do you see that one size fits them all? There might be only one from Flex, Silverlight or JavaFX, but there is still place for HTML+possibly Ajax solutions. Less is more sometimes :)

  Message #254138 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Marc de Kwant on June 06, 2008 in response to Message #254006
That is not the issue Iam talking about. That is a legal issue and not a technical issue. Iam only discussing the technical issue here.
But to enlighten you a bit. Flex is opensource, only the visual IDE is closed source. Furthermore actionscript is close or almost ecmascript. It uses XML a layout language. It uses CSS for design.

  Message #254139 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Marc de Kwant on June 06, 2008 in response to Message #254138
The way I see it, you have to make a architectural desision. You must make this desision over the 3 basic layers. In my point of view html+ajax is a inferior solution to Flex. One of my own arguments is that html+ajax is still subject to a specific browser in its implementation. Flex is not. One design truly looks the same on many browsers and desktops. Furthermore Flex AIR will give you many offline capabilities, that html+ajax will never be able to do.
Also it is infinitly easier to design a screen/application layout in Flex opposite to html.
I know it is always difficult to let go off technologies that you have used alot, are comfortable etc.., but you have to let go of old tech or be left behind. :):)

  Message #254143 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Andrew Clifford on June 06, 2008 in response to Message #254139
It is hard to make the argument that AJAX is dead or even that Flex is the successor. What is dead is page-level calls. People will migrate to REST, JSON, GWT-RPC, and yes BlazeDS services that feed browser side clients. What flavor you choose doesn't matter as always with web frameworks. Services will make the client side technology even more throw-away so your switching costs will drop.

  Message #254144 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Re: Ajax technology is obsolete

Posted by: Istvan Soos on June 06, 2008 in response to Message #254139
The way I see it, you have to make a architectural desision. [...] Also it is infinitly easier to design a screen/application layout in Flex opposite to html.
I know it is always difficult to let go off technologies that you have used alot, are comfortable etc.., but you have to let go of old tech or be left behind. :):)


Agreed on the architectural decision, however as you tend to advertise flex, I'd like to ask a question. What is the best way to implement e.g. wikipedia in Flex? Features required: bookmarkable urls, quick link followup, search-engine compatibility, easy edit... I know ways to do this in GWT, it will be fast, testable, easy setup, even the drag-and-drop editor is there and so on, and I'm seeking the benefit of Flex over it, but I can see little at the moment...

  Message #254739 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

GWT and existing html pages

Posted by: Ara Abrahamian on June 15, 2008 in response to Message #253691
I wonder if anyone has considered using gwt's nice java api on top of ordinary html pages? I mean, apparently everyone is busy creating the whole page with gwt, but what I'm after is to create ordinary web pages with whatever js library or jsf or whatever, and then in cases where I need to write js code to do fancy things on the client side use gwt's nice java api and its java-to-js compiler to write java code instead of loads of js. Or in other words this: http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit/browse_thread/thread/7afc8c738191bd32/f6e64fbd9672041e?lnk=gst&q=abrahamian#f6e64fbd9672041e

Has anyone considered such a usage? It's particularly useful in creating web "sites" with some ajaxyness here and there, rather than big web "apps".

Ara.

  Message #255524 Post reply Post reply Post reply Go to top Go to top Go to top

Flex and javaFX is open source

Posted by: NN NN on June 19, 2008 in response to Message #254006
Flex is also open source and JavaFX.

ONLY Silverlight from Microsoft which is not open source by any angle

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