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Messages: 53
Messages: 53
Messages: 53
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SpringSource dm Server released
SpringSource today announced the general availability of the SpringSource dm Server, a completely modular, OSGi-based Java server to run enterprise Java applications and Spring-powered applications with a new degree of flexibility and reliability. With the availability of the SpringSource dm Server, SpringSource now delivers Spring, the de facto standard Java application platform, coupled with the only application server expressly designed to run Spring applications.
The standards-based SpringSource dm Server builds on OSGi, Java standards and the fundamental Spring tenets of simplicity, flexibility and power to deliver a solution for today’s grid and virtualized environments and tomorrow’s cloud deployments. For the operations team, the SpringSource dm Server features seamless application and resource library upgrades, side-by-side version deployments, as well as application monitoring and analysis from URL throughput to query, cache and transaction statistics. For the development team, it provides a flexible and resilient development server that resolves the vexing application dependency problems that are a common challenge with legacy Java EE application packaging. The SpringSource dm Server enables repeated incremental deployments without server restarts, shortening iterative development-test cycles and providing an ideal platform for today’s agile development approaches.
Read the rest at http://www.springsource.com/node/597
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Message #270401
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Don't do it again ...
I will not make the mistake of recommending a product from SpringSource again ....
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Message #270405
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How much?
Before I look at it, what are the licence costs for using as the basis of system offering a commercial service through the web and other channels?
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Message #270409
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Re: How much?
So you have to contact the sales staff to find out about licence costs. You also need to answer the following:
Which of the following best describes your role in the organization?: *
How many employees in your organization?: *
Company Type: *
Do you have an approved budget?: *
What best describes the stage of your Spring-related projects?: *
What is the timeframe to purchase/implement your solution?: *
This is all fair enough (its their product). But until I know the pricing I won't be looking at the product and unless I know the product I won't being detailing my business to SpringSource.
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Message #270413
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Re: 2.5.6
The princing info is supposed to be at
http://www.springsource.com/content/springsource-dmserver-pricing
Yes, this is pretty disturbing. No reply so far. The least they could do is say we're working on an answer and we'll get back to you. I guess they're taking the apple approach, but fortunately their product is not as great or innovative apple products, so people will start looking in the other direction. I've never second guessed using a spring product if it provided any benefit for a project I was working on and I'm also not the one to debate the philosophies and legalities of licenses, but their switch in support options and distributions is really worrying.
Ilya
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Message #270414
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Re: How much?
Now, can you answer whether the 2.5 branch will still be maintained as outlined in the other reply on this thread?
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Message #270421
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Re: How much?
I guess the "Download and Evaluate" throws us off. Thanks for your clarification.
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Message #270426
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Re: How much?
SpringSource think they are IBM with the way for example Adam FitzGerald respond to the community in all the forums.
Where is that feeling of COOL of Spring?, All the other Open Source projects I see there is a healthy community and everybody sharing, feel comfortable and communicative but Spring lost that feeling?.
Still not Answer from SS about the Tags or small business offering for Spring Framework. They are afraid to publish Road maps or pricing on their website?, WTF is going on with Spring Source?.
I think better IBM should buy SS and be done with this mess.
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Message #270427
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Great product
I downloaded it and played around a little bit. It is very easy to use.
OSGi brings me the hope for solving dependency and re-usability issues fundamentally (within ONE process), which I have been struggling for years.
Congrats to Spring team!
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Message #270431
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SS applying there new policy with DM server...
the new policy is :
u(the community) must help us(springsource) we will leave them on their own
the dm server is provided as source only,u must build it urself,no official binaries or prebuilt packages, and as a new product it is supposed to have major issues in the next few monthes,but u will not have official release from the very first day of the next year(the 3 monthes policy)
IT MAY B A GREAT PRODUCT BUT WITH NO BACKING
WE DEVELOP ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE THAT MAY LIVE 10 OR SO YEARS
how i develop 10 years software when i have 3 monthes bug fix
OH!!!! CONGRATULATIONS FOR THE NEW RELEASE
joe
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Message #270433
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Re: How much? Free
The SpringSource dm Server is actually open source and free to use.
Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource
... under the GPL license.
So it's not a commercial-friendly license (ASL, LGPL, BSD) like in the original spring framework (ASL).
So my employer won't let me use it as we install lightweight servers with our customers.
So I won't be writing any integration in spring-richclient for it, nor raise jira's, nor supply patches.
It's a pity though: the technology looks interesting.
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Message #270435
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Re: SS applying there new policy with DM server...
Joe,
...
the dm server is provided as source only,u must build it urself,no official binaries or prebuilt packages,
We have binaries available here.
IT MAY B A GREAT PRODUCT BUT WITH NO BACKING
WE DEVELOP ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE THAT MAY LIVE 10 OR SO YEARS
how i develop 10 years software when i have 3 monthes bug fix
You can buy the supported build :) If you want to run for 10 or so years in a production environment, I would say that is a solid investment.
OH!!!! CONGRATULATIONS FOR THE NEW RELEASE
joe
Thanks!
Rob
--
Rob Harrop
Lead Engineer, dm Server
SpringSource
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Message #270437
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Re: How much? Free
The SpringSource dm Server is actually open source and free to use.
Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource
... under the GPL license.
So it's not a commercial-friendly license (ASL, LGPL, BSD) like in the original spring framework (ASL).
I don't think that this is a major problem: GPL is a "good" license when used for finished products. I suppose (correct if I am wrong) that you can still write Spring-based applications according to ASL, not GPL.
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Message #270439
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SpringSource DM Server
Interesting that over the past few weeks there has been alot of commotion over Spring.
Why don't we just look at the technology and what it does instead of b*!*!ing about the business aspects of Spring.
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Message #270444
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Re: How much?
So you have to contact the sales staff to find out about licence costs. You also need to answer the following:
Which of the following best describes your role in the organization?: *
How many employees in your organization?: *
Company Type: *
Do you have an approved budget?: *
What best describes the stage of your Spring-related projects?: *
What is the timeframe to purchase/implement your solution?: *
This is all fair enough (its their product). But until I know the pricing I won't be looking at the product and unless I know the product I won't being detailing my business to SpringSource.
The price with that sort of "pricing" usually boils down to "Do you have a budget/how much can you pay? Ok, that's our price!"
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Message #270446
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
>Spring tenets of simplicity, flexibility and power to
> deliver a solution for today’s grid and virtualized
> environments and tomorrow’s cloud deployments.
How does this compare with offerings like GridGain, Terracotta ?
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Message #270447
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Re: SS applying there new policy with DM server...
At last there is a link for community dm server download but why the heck I have to register to download a GPL and not supported version?.
I was going to download but I have to fill all that long registration form??.
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Message #270448
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Re: SS applying there new policy with DM server...
At last there is a link for community dm server download but why the heck I have to register to download a GPL and not supported version?.
I was going to download but I have to fill all that long registration form??.
Lol my bad there is a the bottom a link that say just go straight to download, Anyway that link should be above ;-)
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Message #270449
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If SS go out of business?
I have one question, Right now in the US and the world are a lot of economic problems but if is the case I hope nothing happen but If SS go out of business what will happen to Spring dm and Spring framework?
Could SS sign something to swear to the community that if SS go out of business they will donate to the world Spring dm and Spring Framework with MIT license for example?.
Qt Framework I think have like that kind of agreement to the open source community because KDE depend of Qt and if Trolltech owner of Qt go out of business they will donate complete the framework with a more liberal license So KDE is safe. Here is not the same case but just because Spring dm and Spring framework I recognize they contribute a lot and are great solutions.
It is just an idea.
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Message #270450
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
Modularity is definitely the way to go. If you like the ideas behind Spring dm server platform (modularity, hot deployment of application fragments, rapid productivity), but
- don't want the GPL/GPL licence and/or
- are not ready for OSGi (yet)
then you may also want to keep an eye on/take a look at Impala.
Phil Zoio
http://impala.googlecode.com/ - Impala dynamic modules for Spring
Spring reloaded, fast and simple!
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Message #270455
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Re: How much? Free
The SpringSource dm Server is actually open source and free to use.
Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource
... under the GPL license.
So it's not a commercial-friendly license (ASL, LGPL, BSD) like in the original spring framework (ASL).
I don't think that this is a major problem: GPL is a "good" license when used for finished products. I suppose (correct if I am wrong) that you can still write Spring-based applications according to ASL, not GPL.
Antonio,
That is a very important design point for us. We are working hard to make sure that all programming model pieces sit in our ASL code. So when writing apps to run on dm Server, you are basically writing apps using Spring Framework, Spring Web Flow and Spring Dynamic Modules - all of which are ASL.
Rob
---
Rob Harrop
Lead Engineer, dm Server
SpringSource
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Message #270459
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
I got to check it out a bit. Great product imo.
I hate the name. SpringSource dm Server? Who comes up with these? The prior name was worser SpringSource Application Server.
You guys should plan to actually name it ;-)
Going with osgi was a smart move, i wish Android did the same thing !!!
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Message #270465
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Re: How much? Free
[...]you can still write Spring-based applications according to ASL, not GPL SpringSource is a GPL licensed development and deployment platform EXACTLY LIKE LINUX. Why should it be that scary?!
Are you afraid of deploying your applications on redhat or suse or whatever GPL'd distribution? Are software suppliers (oracle or IBM or whoever) afraid of having a linux version of their products? Is someone avoiding mysql because of his GPL license?
Only thing you cannot do with dm server is embedding it in your product (unless you release it under an OS license) and that's it.
Thanks to SpringSource for another revolutionary product (how long will take for clustering/fail over support?)
Regards,
Raffaele
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Message #270467
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We need an ASF alternative
I hope the open source community can duplicate the functionality of Spring dm server so we don't have to use it -- a GPL product. It would be great if Apache could incubate a competitor project. GPL is as communist as you can get with its lack of privatization.
With SpringSource choosing GPL for its latest innovation, and then refusing to tag after 3 months, who can trust them anymore? If I was a paying customer, I'd feel totally uneasy with their apparent haphazard decisions in their search for more money. You might hold out hope, but maybe Spring 4 or 5 will be GPL. How can a company bet against it? Their latest decisions definitely break my trust; I would hope their paying customers feel the same.
I love the Spring Framework, but my opinion of SpringSource is totally south now.
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Message #270469
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Re: How much? Free
SpringSource is a GPL licensed development and deployment platform EXACTLY LIKE LINUX. Why should it be that scary?!
Are you afraid of deploying your applications on redhat or suse or whatever GPL'd distribution? Are software suppliers (oracle or IBM or whoever) afraid of having a linux version of their products?
You're wrong, in Linux only the kernel, commands and typical applications are GPL (you don't build your applications on top of them).
Libc the most important piece to build applications IS LGPL, so any derivative library/application can be LGPL like GTK, Gnome etc.
If Libc was GPL you should say goodbye to many closed source products running on Linux, for instance the Oracle Database.
In the case of SpringSource dm Server I suppose your application code is not bound (linked) to Server code, otherwise your code would be GPL.
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Message #270472
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Re: How much? Free
I don't think that this is a major problem: GPL is a "good" license when used for finished products. I suppose (correct if I am wrong) that you can still write Spring-based applications according to ASL, not GPL.
I do not believe anyone questioned about Spring's license. A lot of people instead found about Spring's maintenance policy change extremely questionable. I do not want to re-start the discussion again so I can only suggest you to read that post.
I personally will need to understand how this maintenance policy change will affect any other SpringSource product. For now, any SS product is a no-bo. Time will tell if I will change idea.
Alessandro
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Message #270479
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
Spring seems to be spawning its web and trying to prove exactly what? Common !! everybody is here to generate revenue and that is the bottom line truth. My advice, use spring only where you need it. Having said this, for me it fits into web & middle tier to manage my object plumbing. JEE is the way to go...
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Message #270480
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
So, the alternative solution to Spring is a framework based on Spring?
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Message #270492
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Re: How much? Free
SpringSource is a GPL licensed development and deployment platform EXACTLY LIKE LINUX. Why should it be that scary?!
If you call any GPL based Spring API's from our application then you must GPL your application.
I will be interested in reading specifically what is now under GPL (which APIs).
I don't find that scary, but it may be a show stopper for me.
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Message #270503
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Re: How much? Free
If you call any GPL based Spring API's from our application then you must GPL your application.
First, if you don't both (a) create a derivative work; and (b) redistribute that work, you don't need to GPL your code or pay for the SpringSource license. So if you're an end user building and running business applications, you don't have to GPL anything and the license is a non-issue for you.
Second, we do not have "GPL based Spring APIs". Spring APIs--ie, APIs of Spring projects--are Apache Licensed, and hence their use has no potential licensing impact on your code.
The purpose of using the GPL in dm Server is primarily to prevent server vendors picking it up and competing with us in the OSGi server market--likely in a closed source product--using our own code. We are not trying to force end users into paying to run their apps, and, as I've said, GPL does not do that.
As I've previously blogged, we believe that different licenses are appropriate for different projects. There's a reason the whole world isn't ASL/BSD style license or GPL style license.
Rgds
Rod
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Message #270504
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Re: How much? Free
>In the case of SpringSource dm Server I suppose your application code is not bound (linked) to Server code, otherwise your code would be GPL. Exactly but, as Rod stated again - you don't link your code against dm server - just against plain old spring framework. I hate GPL when it is applied to otherwise useful libraries and frameworks (making them unuseful for business purposes) but this simply is not the case.
Regards,
Raffaele
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Message #270513
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Re: If SS go out of business?
what will happen to Spring dm and Spring framework?
Both Spring DM and Spring are ASL, so you're safe there. dm Server is licensed GPL, so maybe you meant your suggestion for that?
I am not a lawyer, so I don't know what exactly will happen if S2 goes out of business. I'm sure it won't be good news for the Spring community, whatever the licenses.
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Message #270515
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Re: How much? Free
In the case of SpringSource dm Server I suppose your application code is not bound (linked) to Server code, otherwise your code would be GPL.
You've got it exactly right.
From my experience, there is no need whatsoever to call any dm Server code from your application. In fact it is pretty hard to go wrong in this regard. If you do manage, I'm sure Rob and his team would like to know about it, to see if they can make it even harder.
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Message #270517
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
Just wondering... do the side effects of using this kind of server really include sweating, nausea, vomiting and urinary retention? That's just what it says here.
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Message #270563
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Re: SpringSource dm Server released
If this announce were given 2 months ago, probably i would have dedicated a significant amount of time to the trial.
And after that, proposals for new projects, ... usual stuff.
And this thread probably would have been 10 times bigger.
But now, is really someone confident that SS will not change again the rules during the game ?
Don't know about you but, for sure, not me.
I think that in the future every single announce of SS will be looked at with suspect, irony and probably something even worse. IMHO, the reputation of SS is gone forever.
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Message #270657
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Re: We need an ASF alternative
I'm agree with Joshua Partogi, Seam looks very attractive this days and more now with 2.1 with the first class support for Wicket. For me bye bye JSF.
Anyway, As someone commented above that every single announce of SS will be looked at with suspect and the reputation of SS is gone forever, I'm agree.
It just begin to appear Spring alternatives as Guillaume Nodet pointed the Apache ServiceMix Kernel and I'm sure we will see soon a kind of fork of Spring framework. But let me tell you I tested Guice and for the people that use only the DI with the AOP Guice is good enough, If you need more features JEE 5 or the coming JEE 6 and GlassFish 3 will be the way to go.
Also is sad but there is not an answer from SS if it will be the tags available after the 3 months period. So my guess is it will never be and if SS have a chance they will change Spring Framework to license GPL 3 as the Spring dm.
Regards.
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Message #270687
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Bankruptcy and restructuring.
Bankruptcy and restructuring.
In last 10 years, major US & Canada still producers,
several airlines went via bankruptcy and emerged
rather well. Why?
Ford and GM since recently produce good cars
in line with best Japan, German cars. And still they
are half-way to bankruptcy. Why?
In big part is is about legacy liabilities for
pension and medical plans. People live longer,
medical is more expensive, unions try to preseve
old liability structures... They all profitable
BEFORE these liabilities (that tend to accumulate!).
There is only several general ways out of this:
greatly increase productivity,
close the business,
go bankruptcy-restructuring to brash-off liabilities,
increase of price...
Maintain growing number of previous versions is
costly liability for SS (that tend to accumulate!).
Providing build tag for tens (and growing)
old and current versions is costly. It is not simply tag:
it is myriads or tests and responsibility after all.
Spring (let say, old-Spring) helped a lot to advance
java and got a lot of help from community. Thanks to
everybody involved, party over. Now, it will be new-Spring,
surely less cool for free-riders,
maybe more attractive for businesses.
Welcome to adult world!
Alex V.
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Message #270689
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Re: Bankruptcy and restructuring.
Welcome to the capitalism world, Welcome to the Commercial and give the finger to who helped to build the Spring ecosystem.
Lately many folks are using the OpenSource Hype for their benefits, With Open Source is more easy to build a community and enter more fast to markets than with the traditional ways and then apply their commercial tactics.
So don't come with that BS: "Now, it will be new-Spring,
surely less cool for free-riders,
maybe more attractive for businesses.
Welcome to adult world!".
Almost all the community doesn't trust SS anymore, They are very angry. So if some business use Spring I wish them good luck because you are messing with the wolf here and it is just a vendor lock-in and every year the license price will increase.
You will see it, Open your eyes, Spring is dead since they announce that policy.
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Message #270830
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Re: Bankruptcy and restructuring.
OK, so lets draw big picture:
one Rod with 10s colleagues with 100s of
active contributors created (designed, developed,
tested, maintained, improved...) something that
was (is) deployed in 1000s places that (in part) gives
work and good remuneration to 10s K of java developers.
Now, Rod & Co saying -- We can not keep up this way.
As VC, they can not say it openly, but you can see it.
And you are right, it is like a pack of wolfs,
they want eat alive the same person/company who
helped (of course - in part) them earn a bread or two.
I would agree that transition to not-free Spring
can be, probably, done better, with more discussion.
But NOT with wolfs....
Alex V.
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Message #270836
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Re: Bankruptcy and restructuring.
Yes I'm agree, My respect to Rod and SS developers but here the problem is the VC behind. Rod doesn't have the 100% decisions anymore I understand that. If was Rod decision this would never happen, Rod is a great person, I understand he is trying to balance the best for the community and SS but my true feeling as a programmer of Spring that I evangelize everywhere about it is that it ruined my day that announce, so I'm sorry but I'm searching another alternatives and maybe that happen to many programmer fellows as me.
But really I wish the Best to Rod and SS developers because they contribute a lot to Java development and many more things.
I'm done, Peace.
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Message #270850
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Re: Maintenance Policy
Rod, Congratulations for this move and I apologize if I made no comfortable to somebody with my comments but this announce in your blog change everything, It makes sense, It is AWESOME!!.
You should post this in the front page of TSS.
I'm sorry for any inconvenience with my comments but I try SS listen my opinion.
Rod is the Man!!, Congratulations to SS developers.
Regards.
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Ari Zilka, CTO of Terracotta, Inc., talks about the new features in Terracotta 3.1, announced during JavaOne and available now.
(June 15, Tech Talk)
In this Tech Talk, Josh Long explores an integration challenge using Spring Integration and walks through the implementation, employing and expanding on the basic patterns of Enterprise Application Integration to tie together components into a function integration solution, and then demonstrates how Spring Integration helps address the integration requirements.
(June 15, Tech Talk)
In this Tech Talk, David Geary teaches you: The basics of Google Web Toolkit; How to implement Ajax-enabled applications in Java; Internationalization; Hooking into the browser history mechanism; Remote procedure calls.
(June 4, Tech Talk)
Jon Kern discusses the best architecture/technical solutions and ensure that they are repeated by all developers. By tackling the architecture up-front in a serial manner, subsequent parallel development will be much more manageable and predictable.
(May 28, Tech Talk)
This keynote describes the frustrations of modern knowledge workers in their quest to actually get some work done, and solutions for how to guard yourself against all those distractions. Neal Ford talks about environments, coding, acceleration, automation, and avoiding repetition as ways to defeat the misguided attempts to sap your ability to produce good work.
(May 26, Tech Talk)
Gil demonstrates how new, aggressive uses of already abundant compute capacity by common applications offer competitive value for application designers.
(May 21, Tech Talk)
Chris Keene introduces WaveMaker as a new way to automate the ability to generate Hibernate classes in order to more quickly bring OR mapping into an application.
(May 19, Article)
Mastering EJB was one of the original and most influential EJB books in the industry. Mastering EJB III now returns with two new expert co-authors, updated for EJB 2.1 and 30% new chapters including security, integration, best practices, open source, and more.
(Book PDF Download)
The Application Server Matrix is a detailed listing of J2EE vendors and their application server products, with information on latest version numbers, J2EE spec support and licensing, pricing, platform support, and links to product downloads and reviews.
(Application Server Comparison Matrix)
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